Hi all,
I just received my M570TU which I've been really looking forward to, only to be heavily dismayed by the performance of the system.
From the second it loads up, the startup sound stutters and just about manages to play. The system seems to struggle to do much of anything. Going into the nvidia driver options, the nvidia logo really struggles to spin round - surely that isn't that taxing?
An analysis of task manager, process explorer and DPC latency checker reveals that the system seems to spend more time handling interrupts and delayed procedure calls than doing anything of use.
I have the latest drivers that I could find, which was somewhat of a chore itself. I've tried all the graphics card drivers I could find but I'm still having problems (after having to edit the inf file to even be able to get them to install!).
DPC latency checker finds the system struggling along all the time (image attached), and it shows in system usage.
The system is just painful to use - it lags along, it freezes, sound breaks up, and I couldn't really be more disappointed. Is this normal behaviour, do you just have to put up with it? I knew the performance wouldnt be close to a good desktop, but I really thought it'd be a bit more usable and perfoming than this![]()
My specs are: P9500 2.53ghz Dual core, 4GB of RAM, nVidia 9800M GTX, Windows 7 and the usuals.
Please tell me I am doing something wrong, as I really want to believe this machine at least has the ability to play the windows startup sound without struggling
Thanks in advance
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Attached Files:
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I don't know much about windows 7 other then its beta, but i have the same machine and same spec's as you and my computer doesnt struggle to do anything..
Everything loads really fast with out delays, no stuttering in windows or any games..Its pretty much flawless. -
Thanks for the reply
I'm going to try putting XP on and hope for the best, maybe it just didn't like Windows 7.
If you right click the desktop and start up the nvidia control panel, does the nvidia logo spin round completely smoothly, no jerks at all?
Also, if anyone could do me a rather large favour and try running the DPC latency checker ( http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml ) - it doesn't require any installation or set up, it just runs and shows you a graph - and see whether or not they're all low green?
I'm just trying to work out if there is something wrong with my system, and maybe find out why it's performing so badly
Thanks -
The nvidia logo spins perectly fine and I have no stuttering issues on my M570 RU, and I'm running win7.
I think you have a driver conflict somewhere
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just tryed that program, and it also says the same, but i dont have anything near your system.....although there seems to appear a bar from time to time to maximum...
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when i open the nvidia driver controller i peaks 18190.....is this normal?
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mine doesn't peak when I do that...
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NP5796 (M570TU) 9800GT(512MB), X9100@3,47GHz, 4GB RAM, 320GB 7200RPM Harddisk.
Running Windows 7 Build 7057
Video driver: Dox Optimised 185.20, installed with Quality settings
Disabled the 'PCI Memory Controller (Intel Turbo Memory) in the Device Manager
When idle only low latencys, when starting applications a peak (see image)
No struggling sounds (had that on the first M570TU i recieved (on vista & xp), recieved a whole new laptop and now it's gone).
Starting and closing explorer or any other application gives a little stutter in the maximize and minimize effects (tried official, laptopvideo2go and dox's driver, all the same but the best 'user exprience' or 'feeling' with dox's drivers on Windows7)
No further problems with Windows 7 on this machine.
Edit:
The peak seems to happen randomly, it doesn't always happen when starting NVIDIA control panel, even when i'm typing this sometimes a peak occurs. -
I've been trying to work this out and trying to improve the system, and it seems I've found the two culprits, at least on my system.
The 9800M GTX graphics card is the main culprit, the thing absoloutely killing my CPU usage with DPCs and interrupts and driving up all the red. I have no idea what it's doing. If I disable the graphics card and drop to VGA, it's 99% green
The other culprit seems to be the intel wireless - it does a nasty spike every 5 seconds or so, and I'm not sure why, but it's somewhat annoying.
With both wireless and graphics disabled, I get a nice steady sequence and my CPU usage is bearable. Only problem is I then have no internet and am stuck in 640 by 480 resolution which isnt much fun!
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I've been doing some reading - it seems there's 2 different forms of 9800M GTX cards in the 570TUs - 0608 and 0617. It seems the 0608 do not support drivers properly (hence the advice around the place on trying to modify the infs to add the device ID lines in) and have no end of problems, while the 0617's work fine. Even the clevo drivers dont seem to support the 0608s. I unfortunately seem to have an 0608 device ID for my 9800M GTX - does this mean I am doomed?Attached Files:
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(I know, you probably don't want to send it back. At least, I waited about 2 weeks before returning mine, because I was so happy when it finally arrived. But afterwards it was worth the extra waiting). -
I am in the same boat as you with the 0608. I am running Vista Ultimate 64, the only time I have DPC spikes is when the powermizer feature changes the video card clock speeds. Sometimes the audio will crack when this happens and sometimes not (my USB EMU 0202 audio cracks 100% of the time when this happens).
The only way I can get 100% green is to disable powermizer. But then my battery does not last very long.
I had to update a lot of drivers after I got the M570TU, including the BIOS. I am running 1.00.10 BIOS and 1.00.09 EC.
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I've had a lot of bugs with windows 7 with my 9800M GT re: drivers, so that's not the ideal way to test to see if your card's a dud
Use a stable version of nvidia drivers to test the card out - say Dox's stickied one up there, or 182.30 (I think? is the most popular one on this forum these days) for x64 systems. I've really had bad experiences with nvidia drivers released after 1/30/09, but not to the extent where I would lag/experience stuff in this thread (just unexplained freezes).
Are your temps ok? The heatsink might be loose or thermal paste not properly applied (both fixable without sending back the notebook). Open up the inside and take a look and see if anything looks odd (extra pieces of plastic or paper covering vents, loose heatsink, etc). -
So if it's a problem with the graphics card, bad version thing, (I think)they should replace it for free.You bought an expensive system, and it should work without problems and adjusting drivers yourself etc. -
Are you talking to me, or the OP? We're different people
My system is stable with Dox's 178.13 (or anything up to the 1/30/09 drivers, so pre 179.xx).
(And are you saying that you should never adjust your drivers, for an OS that the company did not supply?)
Before Tandrum sends it back, he should run older drivers to see if his system is functionally perfectly on them, because I have had bad experiences with the latest nvidia drivers (on multiple OS's, different driver version numbers (but both the 1/30/09 release)), and it might extend to 9800GTX (I have a 9800M GT). -
Quick question: do you get the same spike when the wireless is connected to a wireless signal, or only when the wireless is on, but not connected to a wireless network? -
I get the same wireless spakikes whether I'm connected or not - the only way to stop them is to disable the wireless adapter. These aren't so concerning, however - they are bearable, at least.
I've been narrowin down the main problem - and it seems like my wireless and my 9800M GTX just dont play along.
If I disable either the 9800M or the wireless then all things are fine. As soon as I enable either one of them, it all goes pear shaped. It seems as if the two are somehow fighting, but I dont know how to stop them from doing so.
So graphics card on its own with wireless disabled = perfect. Likewise with the wireless and the graphics card disabled. The only annoying thing is I just cant have both at the same time
It shouldnt be an IRQ issue, as the WIFI uses MSI (Message Signaled interrupts) wheras the graphics card grabs IRQ 16.
Is there some reason why I shouldnt be able to use wireless and the graphics card at the same time?
The issue is seeming somewhat more complex - I cant really say the graphics card is faulty as it works perfectly on its own. Same with the wireless. The rest of the system is fine. Put it all together and things go wrong - but why?
Many thanks for all the replies -
What wireless card have you got and have you tried different drivers for it?
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The wireless is the Intel Wireless 5100 AGM - I've tried all the drivers I can easily find for it without much luck
Does anyone else have the Intel Wireless 5100 and the 9800M GTX? If so, what driver versions are you using on both? -
I have mine for an year almost and I have to say that I didn't have problems with anything. I have vista home premium, I also tried windows 7 but I didn't like it. Also heard that windows 7 is another version of vista which actually it's made for future computers (like touch screen PCs) other than that, my machine works quite good with lots of games. it might me something wrong from the manufacture. They must have done something wrong, it's just a guess though
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I know you want to solve this issue by yourself, but I think you should definitely make use of your warranty. Most sager vendors offer outstanding customer service, and trust me, from what I have heard, they will do all they can to fix the problem.
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Never noticed anything wrong with my system but decided to check the DPC latency tool since similar specs.
P9500, 9800m GTX (.608), 4GB Ram, Vista 32 Home Premium, 5300 Intel WiFi.
So yeah with powermizer on I was hitting 17000 - 18000 when going into nvidia Control Panel. With it off using 'powermizer switch.exe' tool I get around 5000.
In either occasion however the logo spins fine. Also I don't notice sluggish startup or startup sound.
Also tried with WiFi disabled from device manager or fn-f11 but doesn't seem to affect latency at all. -
Whats the powermizer? is it in the m860tu too?
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All new NVidia GPUs have it, it's driver enabled.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_powermizer.html
You can use the fallowing tool to activate it, deactivate it, etc.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=273276 -
Thanks for the replies,
Particular thankyou to you, brownstonemr - it's great to know that the intel wifi + 9800m gtx should work perfectly, and there is something wrong - I just hope my retailer will be able to work something out. Although gettng latency of 5000 sounds pretty nasty itself - my other machines are stable at 500.
The general symptoms I've collected from this is the sound stuttering - e.g. when trying to watch youtube HD video or similar, the graphics card goes mad and it stutters like nothing else. Eventually the clock seems to stabilise, then its fine, but theres this continuing stuttering problem. It's odd it only happens when the wifi and graphics card are both working though.
It also seems that when it occurs, if I'm using an external monitor, either the external monitor or the laptop screen flickers, which is somewhat frustrating. -
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Hi,
My first post in this forum, but i would like to thank most of you for the information that u have placed here. i have followed most of the threads during the last week trieing to figure out how to make my clevo work properly.
My specs:
Clevo M570TU
x9100 3,1Ghz / 4 gb DDR 3
9800M GTX ID:608
Bios .10 EC .9
Most of the drivers are from the CD that came with it or updated from Clevo website.
I having the exact same problems as Tandrum, sound breaking and the latency checker going sky-high.
This happens while working with autocad or any other video demanding software.
On idle, it stays around 1000 and 500. But I still can hear the sound breaking if hearing mp3 and open any software.
I Suspect that this is a video card problem. I m now using drivers 179,67 from notebook2go, and it is working better then the stock driver 177,xx.
I used the Powermizer Switch but it made the problem worse so I turned it back on.
The strange thing is that when I start a game I can feel the computer slowing down, but after like 1 minute the problem disappear, and I can play for hours without any problems. With driver 177,xx sometimes I had blue screen due to video driver problem and the system restarted.
Sins of a solar empire / BF2142
Will test with Fallout 3 and post back here.
Well, I would like some help in:
1) Best video driver to use with, or the driver number that u guys that have the same video card are using and working well.
2) Suggestions for testing or any ideas in how to solve it?
DPC in idle and watching video.
Thanks in advance.
[/IMG]
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1291/dpcidle.jpg
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[/IMG]
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1263/dpcvideo.jpg -
It's definitely something to do with the powermizer thingy.
masfb, you can just disable powermizer and the problem will go away I think. Check the link posted above to download the program for disabling it.
I am wondering, can flashing the BIOS to 0617 solve the issue?
I had never experienced this kind of thing on my laptop. -
I remember having a lot of crackling when opening programs etc and listening to mp3's but don't really get it much anymore. Could be because of the powermizer being off or updated realtek audio drivers.
Download the latest realtek drivers
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...=3&GetDown=false#High Definition Audio Codecs
Then go into device manager and right-click the realtek audio and uninstall it and also remove the C:/program files/realtek folder. Then in safemode run driversweeper http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/. Use the remove realtek option which will get rid of the other files in other windows folders. Then install the new drivers after rebooting.
Also using Dox 182.46 drivers which are working quite well with my 9800m gtx.
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23484 -
Blacky,
If i flash my video card bios to 0617 what problems can i expect? Is there a chance to brick it?
i have readen in another thread that i would loose the HDMI video output capability using 0617 bios , is that true?
I forgot to mention im using Vista x86.
And my first try disabling powermizer made the computer worse. I will try again tonight and post back.
Which video driver u are using? The newest one by Nvidia dosent support my GPU...
Thx -
Hey all,
Disabling powermizer doesnt seem to be a fix here. I've tried disabling it, but to no avail - the clock still seems to change clock, although not as much, with powermizer disabled, and there's still horrible latency, and appearingly so even when its not changing clock.
The problem isnt with the sound card - if you disable the sound card, you still see the horrible latency and problems, you just dont hear them. The machine still lags and the CPU is still wasting time doing things it shouldnt and your machine is still running slower than it should, and to me, this isnt acceptable. Plus I like my sound!
I've tried all the drivers I could find, including the latest Dox drivers, and again, they havent solved the problem. Some seem a little better than others, but overall, the problem is the same - when wifi and the graphics card are working together, the machine is unhappy.
Like masfb though, if you start a game, and let it run for a while, things seem to settle down and stabilise, but that's not good enough. If you're trying to watch say youtube HD videos, or trying to play different music, or launch different programs, and even when you log in, the machine is still behaving horribly, and this isnt right. It might settle down eventually, but that's not sufficient.
masfb, have you tried going into device manager, and disabling the wifi, and waiting to see what happens. Then, enabling the wifi and disabling the graphics card and seeing what happens - does it stabilise?
Many thanks for the replies -
Tandrum,
I have tested the system with and without wifi.
I used a 1080 H264 terminator mkv video to compare.
All tests with powermizer setted as adaptive GPU frequency.
Test 1
NO Sound
OK LAN
OK Wi-Fi
OK Video
First disabled sound, no change wathsoever, as u said, no sound coming out but still nasty spikes at DCP.
Test 2
OK Sound
NO LAN
NO Wi-fi
OK Video
Enabled Sound and:
Then I disabled LAN and WAN cards. Video played wonderfuly, i even opened a Autocad 3D dwg, shaded, rotated zommed and there were no spike at all.
Enabled the LAN card and it continued without any problem.
Test 3
OK Sound
OK LAN
NO Wi-fi
OK Video
Same as Test 2, played without any problem
Test 4
OK Sound
OK LAN
OK Wi-fi
NO Video
Same as test 2 and 3, video played very well no spikes, didnt tested with autocad.
Test 5
all turned on,
Nasty spikes and sound issues, video lagging.
I m assuming that there is an issue between the Intel Wi-fi card and video card.
Later today will install latest sound drivers as Brownstonemr sugested and will look for a new wi-fi driver.
Hopefully will solve this way.
At least i know that i can surf internet or see videos :/
Tandrum does this happen with you system also?
Thx -
You won't brick your card if you know what you are doing and if you have done it before. I had the 0608 and moved to the 0617 BIOS which is much better and no, I did not loose HDMI support. If you flash, remember to set the voltage to 1.05.
I know the latest nvidia drivers 179.48 don't support the 0608, I modded the inf to get them installed. Just browse into the nvcv.inf and a add a lines needed to get the 0608 recognised, the simplest why is to just replace the 0617 device Id in the inf with 0608. You might also have to add your device ID and subsystem to ListDevices.txt.
Right now I am using the 179.48 drivers with the 0617 BIOS. By the way, what WLAN card do you guys have? I have the Intel 5300 and never experienced any problems with powermizer, but then again I usually have powermizer disabled. -
Quick update.
Installed new drivers for Wi-fi and no change again, sound issues and lag.
The Wi-Fi card i have is the same as yours Blacky.
Intel(R) WiFi Link 5300 AGN old driver was 12.0.0.xx new driver from intel is 12.2.0.0 from:
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/fil...32-bit+version&lang=eng&strOSs=156&submit=Go!
Dont know where to look for an ID or revision info tho...
Flashing the Bios dosent seen very easy, also i m not confident about messing with inf files yet. Will look further about this later and will make a try.
No more hints to follow. Any ideas?
PS.
Maybe is b%%^$%t but way back when we had to modify dos .com .bats in order to get a game working, i remenber that there were a lot of IRQ conflics, specialy between the sound card and modem. is there a chance that might be something similar?
Thx -
You can check for conflicts by looking in device the manager for each component you suspect of being to blame. If there are conflicts, you can usually spot them there.
To look for your ID or revision, its in Device manager, adapter proprieties, details, hardware IDs.
Editing .inf is no problem, just save the original .inf before you start. the infs for 179.48 and in the display folder of the unpacked drivers. -
masfb, your situation is identical to mine
Where did you get your system from? Its not european is it?
You seem to have the same WIFI and Graphics card conflict I have though!
As a further test, can you try this: Try unplugging your computer from the mains, and run on battery - does the system now run perfectly in all circumstances?
I am pretty sure its not an IRQ conflict, as the WIFI card uses MSI (a special form of IRQ), and the graphics card uses IRQ channel 16, which is different. The fact the problem only occurs when they're both running though indicates some kind of conflict.
As another question, what does your charger look like? And what country are you in?
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I'll add I've tried every graphics card driver, wifi driver and chipset drivers that I could find so far, and none hve helped the problem. I've also tried XP, Vista and Win7 in both 32-bit and 64-bit flavours, and tried running with the drivers off the CD in the perfect envrionment clevo recommends, as well as trying others - I dont think it's a software problem.
The question is - what is the hardware problem we have in common, that everyone else doesn't? Once we can identify what the problem is, hopefully can fix it!
As a side odd note: When off the mains, my computer is now claiming "No battery detected" - it still works, but I cant get any battery readings from the OS - how odd... -
Hmm, just been doing some more testing
I've ruled out the battery being a problem - the problem continues to occur with the battery taken out of the machine.
A sudden thought though - what BIOS revision are you on, masfb? I'm on main BIOS 1.00.10 and EC 1.00.09 - could it be a BIOS problem with the newer bioses? -
Hi Tandrum,
I m from Brazil and got my system fro Germany at notebookguru.de back in september 08.
My charger looks like a Dell, brand: Li Shin International Enterprise Corp, Model: 0227A20120, it is the original one.
I remember one or 2 times that the computer was on battery but without accusing that it was realy charging.
I had also the impression that if i run the computer on batteries it would work normaly. I need to do more tests. But what i noticed is that sometimes it works better than other days, without any sound or video issues.
If this is true the first diference between battery and power adaptor is the CPU frequency , batt = 1,8 Ghz Power 3,1 Ghz (and the fan make a lot of noise).
Sunday i will install the sound card driver and look for conflicts as Blacky suggested.
If u wanna see the similarities between our systems i belive that Everest can make a full report of the machine.
Thx -
It cant be Bios issue, because i updated mine to Bios 10 and EC 09 due to this problem, it also happened with older versions of the bios.
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What subsystem ID do you have for your GPU?
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My GPU seems to be the unfortunate PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0608&SUBSYS_04811558&REV_A2 (the one no drivers like working with by default and requires inf modifications
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masfb, one thing to try is to plug the computer in, and get the nasty DPC latency from the wifi and graphics showing in dpclat, then immediately turn the power off - On my system, I find this immediately solves the problem! Turning the power back on, and immediately the problem comes back.
I'm going to try and investigate if the CPU frequency has an impact, but somehow I dont think thats the factor, as the CPU can go to full when on battery, and be lower on mains, yet the problem still occurs.
I dont have Everest, but I have the great program PC Wizard (by the people that do CPU-Z) from http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php - its free, and if you go to File -> Save As -> This Category (Hardware) and export, it'll produce a file containing all your hardware information.
It's nice to be able to rule out the BIOS as the issue though - thanks!
I exported mine as a PDF and have attached it to this post
Thanks for the helpAttached Files:
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Yeap, that's the same GPU I have. Although I updated the BIOS to 0617.
I was looking into your system pdf and I've noticed the GPU core was at 300. the memory at 300 and the shaders at 1300
Can you check that again? That's not right. The core should be at 200. Or maybe your program is not reading the frequencies correctly. You can use GPU-Z on the sensors tab to check current frequencies.
In 2D my video card always stays at 200 core and 100 on the memories and I think the shader should be at 400. -
Tandrum, hapened exactly as u mentioned before. on bateries and wi-fi on the computer is ok, but if i plug it DPC starts with red bars out of scale.
Black, mine GPU is 608, and GPU-Z is stating :
Sensors Tab
GPU core clock: 383
GPU memory: 301
temp 47
Graphic card tab
Gpu clock / default : 500
memory / default: 799
Shader / default : 1375 -
Thanks a lot for the reply
Blacky - Yeah, PC Wizard doesnt seem to read it correctly, but GPU-Z does. The odd thing is, when WIFI is disabled, the graphics card seems stable in GPU-Z. When WIFI is enabled, the graphics card keeps changing clock. This is particularly interesting as powermizer should be disabled, so it should stay at a constant 500/799 - screenshot attached
masfb - well, it does indeed seem that we have exactly the same problem! So it's not just a one-off thing with my computer!Attached Files:
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I've done a little investigating with exploring whether or not the CPU frequency could be part of the issue. It doesnt seem to be - the CPU frequency on my machine goes up and down depending on workload regardless of AC or battery.
It does vary a bit more when the conflict occurs, but I think this is a chicken/egg problem - due to the higher CPU load from the stupid interrupts when the Wifi is enabled, the CPU changes its frequency more often.
I've attached an image from the resource monitor. The blue line is the frequency, and the green line is the CPU usage.
The first half of the image is on battery - the Wifi and graphics card are both active, and playing nicely together. The frequency is stable. The second half is then on AC power - the frequency varies a little more, due to the higher CPU usage, but I think this is due to it having to deal with more interrupts.
In both occasions, the CPU is only at about 30% or so of its max clock, as it is doing nothing demanding. Therefore, its not like it's going to 100% CPU frequency on AC, and limited on battery.
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My charger is also a 0227A20120 - is that the same as yours Blacky? My M570TU is from Europe - it's a UK laptop from Novatech.
As a summary so far:
Problem arises when the following conditions are true:
AC Power
WIFI enabled
Graphics card enabled
Following things have been ruled out:
BIOS
Drivers
Operating System
EnvironmentAttached Files:
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IMO it's pretty clear there is something up between the wireless card and the GPU, probably a hardware issue as you said above.
All I can suggest is try to change the BIOS of the GPU to 0617 and see if that solves the problem. If that isn't a fix consider sending the laptop back for warranty. -
If I send it back under warranty, the problem wont be solved
- as the problem occurs only under AC, with WIFI on and with the graphics card enabled, and the problem itself is not necessarily obvious unless you're looking for it, they wont repair it.
The strange thing is - if its a conflict between the wireless and the graphics card, why only on AC power, and not on battery?
I dont suppose you could do me a massive favour, Blacky (or anyone else that fancies helping) - do you think you could download/run the PC Wizard ( http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php ) program and export the hardware category? That at least gives some basis for comparison
My worry is that as there are at least 2 people with this problem, it may not be fixed by simply replacing a bit of hardware - there could be some incompatiability with the european hardware or something in the actual specification, or maybe there's a reason why Clevo say the P9500 is currently unsupported on the M570TU (could that be the issue?)? In which case, sending it back wont help, as they might replace the parts, but the incompatability will still be there. Edit: Guess not, as me and masfb have different CPUs
It seems to be necessary to get to the bottom of the problem -
I got my laptop from EU as well, so that's not the case.
And if you describe the issue to the guys you got it from, I am sure they will understand.
Let me get pcwizard and see what I can do. -
Thanks a lot
As an updated summary of what is known so far in this "little mystery" (which I am determined to get to the bottom of - at least to find the cause!)
The problem:
So the problem is when the AC is on, WIFI is enabled and the graphics card is enabled, the system generates nasty interrupts and DPCS, causing stuttering and a horrible reduction in system performance.
Problem arises in systems with the folowing specification (known so far):
- GPU: 0608 9800M GTX
- WIFI: Intel Wifi 5100/5300 AGM
- Charger: 0227A20120
Problem arises when the following conditions are true:
- AC Power
- WIFI enabled
- Graphics card enabled
Following things have been ruled out:
- BIOS
- Drivers
- Operating System
- Environment
- Country/region
- The battery/battery charging
- CPU Frequency
- Other obvious hardware: (LAN card, Sound card, modem, finger print reader etc.)
- Type of CPU (Mine is P9500, masfb's is a x9100)
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Have you tried changing the Wi-Fi driver?
New versions listed here:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21149
M570TU: Is it meant to be this bad, or is something broken?
Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Tandrum, Mar 21, 2009.