Make the 7970M Enduro Public! Get backing of prominent Blogger

If you guys want, we can try and get a prominent hardware blogger to do a feature about this issue? I bring this up since CatalystCreator ignores our tweets. I know we've been filling out that form AMD keeps telling us to fill out, but nothing. This issue has been posted and known about for 3 months now. And even Sager are being ignored it seems.

I would suggest sites that feature AMD products often. Sites like AnandTech, KitGuru, HardForums etc. I'll create a thread in HardForums to see if they will be willing.

Create a thread on a forum/blog that AMD listens to and provide us the link so we can respond and show support for your effort!

Main points I would point out to them is...

1). This is not just a Clevo issue since the muxless implementation is not affecting Nvidia GPU's negatively.

2). Only way for MSI and AW users to get full performance is to disable Enduro.

3). Current solution being promoted by Clevo owners and NBR is, exchange your 7970M for 680M.

4). No workarounds have been found, nothing works. The only solution we can recommend is the above, get a refund on the 7970M and get yourself either a Nvidia or go with a AW/MSI.

Threads for Enduro:

AMD Gaming
AMD Game Forums - The Clevo 7970M Enduro/under-utilization debacle.

Rage3D
7970M Enduro Issue - Rage3D Discussion Area

HardForum
AMD Enduro Problem - [H]ard|Forum

Guru3D
AMD Enduro, AMD Response Help - Guru3D.com Forums

Please NBR, you can post all day here, and nothing has happened. Let's put the pressure on AMD. I've created a few threads and so have other NBR owners, help us out, reply to these threads! Don't let it seem it's just a few loners being affected!

 

In order to fix the Enduro issue would require a complete motherboard change; there won't be a solution apart from a mass recall of all the laptops to repace the mobo, which is incredibly costly in money and time, so it's 99.9% not going to happen.

 

It wasn't just the driver?

 

You still won't just add a reply to try and get that sentiment verified? You don't know that for sure, doesn't hurt to try and get a response from AMD and address this.

And if it requires a MB change, why is it that 680M is unaffected? Muxless design does not seem to be the culprit to me. I disagree with your sentiment and believe this is something to do with AMD driver team.

 

we must take legal action if got ignored or no solution. this is completely unacceptable.

 

Have you asked for a refund? I think that step should be taken before taking any legal action...

 

I think refund is action against resellers not amd

 

On what basis are you suing AMD? They didn't sell you the card or the laptop.

 

Raise awareness, mail computer websites.
AMD deleting that thread shows they are just trying to hide it and unfortunately NBR forums are not that big. Don't let the issue stay here.

All we may get from AMD is some kind of awareness statement.
And the way it looks resellers may be getting pressured by them, they've been pretty silent lately.
They are just another victim IMO.
First with the bad batch of cards and now this.

 

Not trying to troll. I am curious what the legal action would be against. I havent been following as closely as others perhaps once I chose to go with the nvidia card, but does AMD make claims somewhere of what the card is supposed to do? Yes they list specs etc, but do they actually come out and say "This is how it will behave in this game etc?

I am not suggesting AMD does not have any issues, I am trying to see where the legal basis would come from on this. I tend to look at computer hardware like broadband claims. "You can get up to this *note you probably wont get this", which removes any ability to say they arent meeting their claims.

So this is an honest question, I know the issue is utilization of the card. When the card is under utilized, does the clock speed lower/core count change? Those are the bits I see made claims to what you are paying money for, and even then they are allowed to fluxuate.

Again not trying to troll here, as yes you SHOULD get >30 on all cards based on specs, but in a court of law, could you prove that AMD made claims anywhere that it was guaranteed and are no longer meeting their promise?

 

Well just like a car maker, any issues with their cars goes back to them not the individual car sellers.

 

Well yes, but you first take the car back to the shop. The seller is responsible and it must be given the chance to remedy the situation. THEY will send the car to the manufacturer (if necessary). If the reseller refuses to refund, sue them. If the manufacturer refuses to refund the seller, the seller should sue the manufacturer.

I.e. you have a legal contract with the reseller, and the reseller has a legal contract with the manufacturer.

 

Yeah,
I think any legal action if any would be between resellers and AMD for providing a defective product.

And customers just getting refunds from sellers.

nobody wins here.

 

Besides, I'm afraid Clevo will only receive the short end of the stick, and it will be up to them to fix the issues.

 

I emailed my reseller to see if a new driver will be out within a month. If not I let them know I want to swap it out for the 680m. Lesson learned, never buying an AMD card EVER again.

 

I wonder if Engadget or Tom's Hardware know about this. I'm giving Malibal a call and see if I can still change cards just to open up my options.

EDIT: Well, even if I want to switch to 680M, Malibal has just informed me that since I'm way past my 30-day window I'm pretty much stuck with the 7970M. Unless I sell it and buy the 680M. Instead, I'll just hold on to this until the next best card comes out. I probably won't look at AMD again for a while or at least I'll be very careful and not be an early adopter anymore.

 

But eventually it gets around to AMD one way or the other. Plus lets not exclude clevo from fault. It is there job to design products and test the components to make sure they work and makes sure that the hardware is capable.

 

Be fair guys, its not Clevo`s fault.
Enduro problems was not what they had in mind when they included 7970M in their catalogue. Its not a criteria to include MUX switching like Alienware does. Clevo are now in trouble because AMD made a flawed product which Clevo can`t disable due to hardware restrictions. If they could do it through software, you would all have already known about it for some time now.

What Clevo is doing now is giving strict orders to AMD to fix the Enduro problems through optimization of their drivers, "Or else we might look elsewhere for GPUs in our following models" imo. We have already seen an attempt, in the Sager thread where they said they were in touch with AMD and they have experimented with various things which people could try. Sadly it didn`t work. It does look like optimizing/fixing Enduro problems through software is not as easy as one might have imagined, looking at the months passing by without any relief.

 

It is clevos fault, it is their job to select parts and put them together and make sure they work before they sell them. A laptop is not an appropriate item to do a public perpetual beta. The reason we buy from one laptop maker over another is their choice of parts since none of them make the original parts, it is how they pick parts, and put them together then support them that defines them.

 

That friggin' sucks. Really. I was annoyed at all the AMD guys making fun of us for choosing to pay so much for a 'similar performance' with nVIDIA two months ago, when almost any user that opened a thread that asked what to buy back then was replied with the 7970M in mind without allowing a freedom of choice (some actually had to give excuses for the fact that they chose the 680M and were scoffed at), but I honestly never wished for that. No one deserves paying so much for a high end product that doesn't deliver.

And on top of that, lack of competition is not healthy - I had to pay through the nose for that rotten 680M.

 

I am not sure what real legal action there is. Athough anyone can sue anyone for anything it doesn't mean you will win. It just means you spend money and time.

As far as I can see amd doesn't really specify any mobile performance specifications at all for the 7000 M series. As posted as
a response on the amd support forum they do have a disclaimer of sorts.

Not all AMD Radeon™ HD 7000M series GPU features and capabilities may be supported on all AMD Enduro technology-enabled components or systems – always check with your component or system manufacturer for specific mode capabilities and supported technologies.

There is however the comment under the Performance section of the GCN Architecture

Starting with GPU utilization, AMD has taken great strides to ensure that the GCN Architecture is capable of efficiently using its hardware resources. This seems like such a simple idea, but designing a GPU to frequently approach its peak theoretical performance is a challenge the GCN Architecture tackles with ease.

The GCN Architecture is designed for improved utilization, which ensures that the GPU is making optimal use of its resources for maximum performance.

Without any defined specifications I am not sure this would really mean anything.

 

They did test the 7970M to make shure it was working. And it does. But thats not the problem here. Since we at NBR have compared systems, Alienware vs Clevo, we saw what was wrong. Do you really think Clevo had this opportunity or even a slightly thought of that in mind? I don`t.

The Enduro problems is nothing but AMD`s fault. Clevo can`t make up for the Enduro screw ups. All they could possibly do is offer a P150EM/P170EM hardware revision. Or hope and pray that AMD can somehow fix it through software updates.

 

Post I made in the amd forum:

"This problem not only affects users of clevo, affects all notebooks with the 7970m

Moreover, affects not only the 7970m but also the 7950m



The reality is that the high-end cards for laptops are one small part of the universe of cards sold, and apparently AMD is not giving due attention because the problem is complicated and cost to repair the defect would not provide the returns ($) expected.



The only ones that lose here are the consumers who trusted and bought the company's products, in addition to those consumers who are still waiting for a miracle driver that fixes the problem.



It's been three months, and unfortunately I think that AMD will continue pretending the problem does not exist. So far the company only acted to censor threads that Sager had opened in NBR (shame!)"

Let's see how many time they'll take to censor enduro's thread there

 

I don't know why you say that our computers are defective, - everything I have read suggests that it is a software-related issue, and I think that AMD is aware of it. A computer-reseller on this forum wrote that they indeed were aware of this issue, and they had reported the issue to AMD. He also wrote that he didn't believe that the hardware is defective.

 

I don't understand how this is relevant to us. Enduro feature does work on our systems. If they mean that it's not guaranteed we can't get the GPU to function properly in games, well that's just disgusting. I think if that is what they are saying, then it's time to really get mobile gamers to rally and boycott AMD.

 

Well another thread regarding Enduro closed on NBR. I think we should double our efforts on other forums where AMD responds to and where they have some influence on AMD's reputation.

Sager tried to do what they could, but AMD shut them up on NBR, I hope Rage3D, HardOCP can do something. Any of you want to volunteer and see if can get a response through KitGuru or AnandTech?

I also created a thread on Guru3D.

 

Look I've had some time to chill out, let's not forget (as frustrating as this problem is) that Sager have said they are working with AMD on a solution. There's nothing stopping them creating a new thread tomorrow (wishful thinking) or sometime in the near future with another proposed fix. Maybe we should all just focus on other aspects of our lives for the time being? Sager and AMD are doing things their way and when you look at things objectively, there is nothing we can do to hurry them up or as it seems, have them communicate better on the issue. I'm going to go and play some basketball because it's nice and sunny and come back to this/other forums in a week I think. All this stressing about it is not doing me any favours.

 

Actually we can.

AMD denied the GSOD issue. But when HardOCP did a write up on it, AMD got that resolved fast, real fast. When it becomes public, very public, AMD actually does something about it. As long as it just stays at NBR, AMD doesn't seem to care.

 

Interesting, well yeah I reckon that would be the best option to pursue perhaps.

 

Yeah, seems it. Having a company like Sager looking to be proactive and get feedback to try to fix the issue just got AMD all red and angry.

It seems the only time AMD makes an effort to acknowledge a problem is when it becomes very public. AMD didn't resolve issues with their over optimizations and image quality until it was made public by various tech sites. AMD didn't acknowledge there was a huge flaw with their Anitropic-Filtering with the 5xxx series until it was made very public on Guru3D and other forums. It was then that they provided a fix with the 6xxx series, though 5xxx owners still screwed.

AMD has repeatedly demonstrated to me, that they only act when they are publicly confronted in the open, not their driver feedback form.

 

Lol maybe they should just give up on making graphics cards altogether???

 

From the outside, it would seem AMD could argue that it is indeed on Clevo. A/W has a hardware solution. I don't completely agree with AMD here, but to me it would seem that AMD has a strong leg to stand on in this battle. Law is not always about who is at fault, but rather legal precedence and technicalities. Just because I make the part, I can still argue you did the modifications and if party A has a usable part in their laptop but the part in your laptop doesn't work right, you are culpable, not me. (be aware, fighting to prove you are right can bankrupt a smaller company, as it can take years to get to court and paying a legal team is very, very expensive).

Using the car analogy, you manufacture the car, but buy the transmissions from me. The trannys keep going out at 80k miles (not unlike the Ford Taurus), who does the consumer blame...? Ford. Or more recently, Toyota buys the accelerator parts from me, and then, unfortunately it sticks and people have accidents, who gets sued? It was Toyota.

I would love to think all parties involved would be working on this. It would seem that it is really the consumers and the resellers. It does not look good that AMD used legal clout to remove the only thread I have seen that had Sager asking for detailed info on issues. Sager seemed to be trying to address the issue, then was put in a position to pull the thread for fear of legal action. Fortunately NBR worked with them to resolve that issue, but in reality, they (AMD) have either the resources, experience or legal precedence (or all mentioned) to remove the thread.

In short, I am not pleased that Enduro hampers the performance of your cards. I am also not surprised that
this could turn out to be a long drawn out issue. I would hate to see consumers, resellers or builders take a hit on this. Good luck on this, but be aware, this could be a long process.

 

In short, they are saying if some features don't work, check with your manufacturer. They are not guaranteeing it will work with every system, and not accepting responsibility if it doesn't. It would seem that is how they were able to get the Sager thread removed, from the outside view, anyway. And that is why good lawyers make so dang much money. They write these disclaimers.

 

I also contacted MALIBAL regarding this and was given the same answer, as well as a link to where I could purchase the GTX680M from their website. I'm basically happy with my current performance, but I would love to see more, especially if it's there but is being restricted.

That being said, I haven't read every single post in all of the various 7970M threads, but it seems to me that this might be a "perfect storm" of factors that have inadvertently converged in Clevo EM-series machines. I might be wrong, but this is my reasoning:

1.) AMD requested Sager to remove the previous thread regarding the optimization issue, to which they complied after discussing it with NBR. That is obviously open to speculation of all sorts, but it would seem to indicate there is an issue there that AMD wanted removed from the public eye of this forum. It could also be something as simple as they wanted Sager to remove the thread because it provided links to modified drivers that could potentially damage their product via increased temps, but I suppose that speculation as valid as any.

2.) It's my understanding that Alienware and MSI machines are able to bypass Enduro by switching to discrete graphics. The earlier Clevo HM-series are not affected as well. This could all be due to architecture as much as BIOS/vBIOS implementations as it is software issues/driver support, I just don't know. It seems like it leans more toward the driver-side of things, though, which would seem to indicate that a potential solution could be worked out and released via a patch or updated driver package.

3.) Clevo EM-series have a very locked-down BIOS. Any potential changes that might be able to be made regarding Enduro may require the ability to access parts of the BIOS that Clevo has intentionally locked. That could possibly be bypassed with a modded BIOS, or better yet, if Clevo were to get together with AMD and work out a partial solution that could be implemented via a BIOS update, after which time we would be able to access the parts needed to make the necessary changes/updates that would then come from AMD or Clevo or our individual resellers. I would just like to see them unlock the BIOS and let us have full access to what we paid for, but I digress.

4.) AMD is aware of this issue, you can be sure of that, and they are likely working to address it. I thought it was a weak reply on their part to point out that certain features may or may not work in all 7000-series products, as that is not the issue. The issue is, it is "working" but we would like it to not work. No company wants to drive consumers straight to their competitor's doorstep, but in this case it seems unfortunate that more is not being done, especially considering these cards were released three months ago (which means you can bet engineering samples were available long before that to get kinks worked out). If the only answer, after all this time, is to say, "We can't help because some features may or may not work in our cards, so we suggest that you buy from our competition," then that is a sure way to drive yourself into the ground business-wise. Obviously, that is a big paraphrase on my part, but you understand the point given the context. I'm no AMD fanboy, but I refuse to believe that they are so cavalier with this issue. They are aware of it and they want to get it fixed, but for whatever reason, a solution is not coming easily. Maybe they are realizing that there is no solution (I hope not).

Which brings me to my convoluted conclusion, which is that a series of poor design choices on AMD's part, as well as Clevo's part, coupled with implentation of new technology (Enduro) on new microarchitecture (HD 7000-series) installed in a new platform (Clevo EM-series) has merged to create a tremendous headache for everyone involved, especially the end-users who paid a premium for the 7970M cards. Maybe a new or updated driver can fix it, or maybe a new BIOS version can fix it, or maybe both and then some are needed, or maybe this is just as good as it's going to get and we are stuck with it because the hardware changes necessary would be too costly to resolve. Maybe AMD knows this and is just hoping this issue goes away, or maybe they have a fix coming soon. Lack of concrete communication is a big factor, and given details available during the preceding issue with the bad batches, I'm not optimistic we will hear much of anything. I hope we do, because I dislike rampant speculation even though I am doing it myself, as there is no viable alternative at this point.

That's my take; your mileage may vary. Sorry for the length and/or any wild speculation or gross inaccuracies.

 

Morey, I think you may have hit on several of the factors here. None of us knows how many, but it is a good observation. It could be the "Perfect Storm".

 

The problem with anyone trying to blame Clevo, is that Clevo's decision wasn't really a poor one... they designed their laptop to take advantage of BOTH GPU company's battery saving features. Yes, Alienware can get around the issue by turning off the iGPU, and I'll even concur that was a good design choice on their part, but keep in mind the 7970m wasn't even available when the EM series came out, and Nvidia's optimus which in effect does exactly what enduro is supposed to, has no problems and works just fine.

Point being, the 7970m doesn't ACTUALLY work perfectly in AWs, they just happen to have a way to skirt around the issue, since enduro doesn't kick in if it thinks it's the only GPU. I had suggested maybe AMD's best move would be to disable enduro in their drivers, but people seemed to be of the opinion that they would never do that as it defeats the purpose of having enduro there in the first place. If that's true, I don't see why people saying AWs solution is the way to go. Honestly, I know not everyone can afford the 680m, which sucks, because really, the best way to show a company you are unhappy with them is with your money... giving it to their competitors.

Which brings me to a slight side-note: At the time I had switched my order from 7970m to 680m, people on here were still telling me "no no don't worry, it'll be fixed with drivers any day". Honestly, *I* don't think drivers will be able to fix the problem. Anyway, my best friend sided with all you anti-Nvidia folks saying, "People who buy Nvidia are just paying for a name." Now, I know Nvidia has not always had flawless products, but they put a WHOLE lot more effort into fixing their problems, as well as P R throughout the process. Truth is, Nvidia has built up a name that is largely synonymous with a quality, hassle-free product. Is that really such a bad thing to pay for? Truth is, right now, both companies are working on new drivers, but while AMD is doing so to fix ridiculous issues people are encountering, Nvidia is using that time to try and make drivers that improve performance even more... which is really where a company should be at when putting out a high end product. I wish I only had to pay an extra 245 instead of 295, but frankly it was worth every penny.

In conclusion, this is what I have to say... I want the 7970m fixed for all of you. I've even tried to help come up with ideas. I have no real hate for AMD, and used to root for them over Intel years ago. All that being said, everyone is acting like they didn't get what they paid for, and I feel the exact opposite. I think you got EXACTLY what you paid for. The card didn't cost a whole lot more than the 675m, but it gets SIGNIFICANTLY better performance, at the cost of some debilitating issues in some games. The 7970m is a great card, it plays most games really well. Let's face it, though... the gpu is the most important factor for gaming, and if you want a truly top of the line gaming laptop, you need to be willing to shell out the money for the top of the line GPU... which isn't AMD.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think most people who paid the extra for the 680m are not feeling buyer's remorse, despite the steep premium. This is not the voice of a fanboy. I've actually never owned an Nvidia product before this one.

P.S. - For some reason the forum replaces the letters P. R. (when put together) as PR

 

So are you suggesting that the consumers just suck it up and eat the mistake because it is not Clevos fault? Alienware noticed a fault, or they at least created a fail safe in case their was a fault. They looked ahead of the game this is what a notebook maker is suppose to do. It does not matter whos fault it is, at the end of the day most consumers blame it one the maker.

Consumers do not care whos fault anything is and nor should they, whoever they buy the computer from is now at fault, and if that company disagrees they can try to pass the buck up to the company they think is at fault. That is how responsibility chains work.

If I had bought this laptop I would return it, end of story, I dont give a rip who did what because its my $1500-$2000 and I am not donating it to clevo or anyone else.

 

I've only followed high-end laptop gpus for the past two years or so. I have noticed the same trend with AMD.

I understand the frustration that people have, but remember the multiple threads regarding issues with 6970/6990m? All of the solutions were "wait for drivers", etc. It seems to me that people have short memories or look past issues on previous generations of hardware. Knowing AMD's track record for driver issues, a consumer should know what they are receiving, whether it meets expectations or not.

Personally I opted for 6990m although at the time of purchase many were saying it had heat/driver issues, but as a consumer I was did diligent research and prepared for such issues. $200 vs $450 upgrade is a big deal, and going for cheaper option made more sense to me, as for many others I am sure. At this time, I can say I use my 6990m with no issues

So for those that purchased the 7970m, it is really a sad situation and hopefully something happens. I'm not saying it is right of AMD to not validate the issue or release faulty drivers, but people should know that they get what they pay for. When the direct competition is hundreds more, there ought to be reasons (multiple) why. The boycott and lawsuit sentiments are not for the right reasons, in my opinion, since these issues have occurred in the past. The boycott ought to have occurred prior to purchasing the 7970m, not after, knowing AMD's track record.

I don't want to come off as rude or insensitive to the issue, but as consumers we need to use judgement before investing in expensive equipment and purchasing from specific companies. I know that receiving poor support (customer, technical, software, otherwise) is never acceptable, but that is why there is competiion.

Short version: to avoid these issues, go with nvidia and don't buy hardware with software in its infant stage (ie, enduro now and optimus in the past).

Ps. I enjoy my AMD card. Maybe its the drivers hehe

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

It is in alienware/msi but not in clevo, that don't make any sense to me. I paid the same price...

 

It's not just Alienware and Clevo.

I don't want to return my Clevo. I'm not looking to get a 680M. I just want this to work as advertised. That simple. Not asking much from AMD, I just want it to work.

 

I tried posting on AMD's G+, but it won't let me. :[

 

Actually, it's not. In an Alienware, if you buy an Nvidia card, it just works, battery-saving functions and all. If you buy an AMD, you have to disable certain hardware in order to force it not to use certain GPU functions so that it can get maximum performance. That's not the same thing as a top of the line GPU.

Well, you can't really have it both ways. HP makes laptops and Alienware makes laptops, but if you expect that because they are both laptops, that they are going to be the same despite their price difference, you are going to be sorely disappointed. AMD has made a name for itself as a company that pumps out highly capable cards that OFTEN have issues, coupled with very poor support (drivers and otherwise). So when you buy AMD, you need to know that that's what you are getting, and that's what it is. I haven't looked into laptop GPU's in a long, long time until recently, but looking over past issues, it amazes me that people are still expecting to get a product from AMD that DOESN'T have issues. If you want something that works as advertised (and if it doesn't that will get fixed in a timely fashion), buy Nvidia. If you don't like Nvidia, then know you are going to get a slightly inferior purchasing experience, mitigated by a better price to performance ratio.

 

I'm not so sure about that. The problem with the cards are due to Enduro. A/W does not have a hardware solution to fix Enduro; rather, they have a hardware solution to bypass the broken Enduro. That is a key point. If you argue that AMD is at fault because Enduro does not work, they can't argue that they are not at fault because A/W can bypass Enduro. In fact, the opposite would be true. It would show that yes, AMD is at fault because the Enduro issue is prevalent across all laptop manufacturers with different hardware setups, so there is no fault to be placed on the manufacturers due to their chosen setups. Alienware's ability to bypass Enduro shows that the card works when not limited by Enduro, which is an AMD issue.

 

And that is exactly what we will hear if legal action is taken. "It is not our (AMD) fault that Sager chose to not allow you to disable Enduro, so you can't sue us."

 

Actually the battery-saving functions and all work in Alienware. When you play you dont have any battery saving fonction and when you dont play you have it. I'm not sure what you don't understand in the switch. Since you get better fps, AMD it' top of the line in the alienware.

 

I'd be happy enough with that solution. But since Optimus can work with the muxless design, I'm still confident that it's something AMD can resolve, it's not hardware.

 

Reported posts have been noted. A moderator for this sub-forum will have a look. Honestly, I don't see a real problem with what Cloudfire posted here to begin with. If some folks don't like what was posted, it's not the end of the world. Ignoring it would be one option. Going back and forth bickering (or hurling personal insults) about whether the posts should be here is a little bit silly. Let's just stay on topic and be respectful.

One way of looking at it would be that the more NVIDIA fans there are posting in a thread designed for railing against AMD could have a positive influence on AMD in the interest of self-preservation and customer retention. Just a thought...

There are still issues beyond the Enduro problems, although that seems to be the most vexing issue with the new AMD GPUs. Driver support is still a problem and CrossFire has not worked consistently well for a long time. It's time for them (AMD) to turn a new leaf and hearing from the end users in a forum like this *might* be helpful in providing an incentive for them to take ownership of correcting their engineering and driver support issues.

You're probably right. I bet they would take a position like that. NVIDIA tried it a few years ago, but it turned out poorly for them and for member of the class action. It was a lose/lose scenario for everyone involved. Litigation seldom enriches the lives of anyone except for the attorneys involved. Let us hope that AMD shows some integrity and steps up to the plate to take care of things before the situation degrades into a legal fiasco. That would be better for everyone involved, including AMD.

 

I've got a feeling that integrity is beyond what they are capable of at this point. If they came out tomorrow and said "LOOK! A Driver we slaved over all night and it should fix your issues!" I would not regain my lost faith in them as a company. For most of my career in computing I have been an AMD/ATI fan. I built my first computer with a K7 and a rage (Good ol' Athlon Classics!) And stuck with AMD/ATI from day one.

I have begun to lose faith in them as a company since then, slowly over time. Issues with drivers and bad customer service, as well as bad personal experiences. I saw this as a chance for them to redeem themselves and give themselves a boost in the Mobile GPU market so they could hold their own against Nvidia. Boy, did that fail.

Sad day.

EDIT: My last statement was harsh and unnecessary, so I have removed it for the betterment of everyone.

 

Someone mentioned contacting the Better Business Bureau, this is one possible rout, but it actually makes little sense. Because all that would happen there as with most issues that it would be suggested you contact the OEM which would be Clevo / sager/ whomever, and then ask for a return. Which gets back to the original point that the only real way to deal with this is to return your laptop for a refund. Mass returns would be noticed and reacted too.

It still helps if people get the word out here and other forums though, the more educated consumers are the better things get and the less companies try to pull junk.

Look at the key rollover issue. almost no one, even here knows about it, so most laptop makers just keep pumping crap keyboards out. Until places like NBR and other reviewers start focusing on this in reviews we wont see the $5 fix implemented.

 

I'm right there with you, bro. Thought I would give them a "last chance" with 7970M CrossFire. Silly me... leopards don't change their spots. I should have allowed my previous bad experiences with 6970M CrossFire and 6990M CrossFire, and my defective Radeon desktop GPUs guide me in a different direction.

I was a big ATI fan for many years, but not any more. I still remember the Rage128... it was an awesome video card back in the day. I never had any serious issues with the reds until after 5870M was retired and AMD stepped into the picture.

But, I'm a optimistic person by nature and will continue to hope that they step up to the plate on fixing the problems with their latest product. If they don't it will come as no surprise. If they do, then we will all have a reason to be happy. Only time will tell.