My Official M860TU REVIEW!!!

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*Disclamer*
This review is based on the fact that I use this laptop as a laptop. Meaning, I use it on my lap, I'm using a belkin Laptop cooler for the time being, until I invest in a better one. When I game, I keep it on the cooler, but I dont have it on my lap.



Well heres my go at a review for the Sager NP8660 aka Clevo M860TU. We have all been waiting for this new notebook to come out, and at last, it is finally in some of our hands. I figure the "Official" reviews will come pouring in soon enough, but until than, I thought I would see what I can do to maybe help ease the wait for those who still haven't received theirs, or haven't made up there mind.


Heres a list of Pros and Cons I created, to offer some extra insight.

The Keyboard, First off, i want to say this is a very easy keyboard to type on, the spacing and placement of the keys seems very natural.

The Monitor seems solid, I can place it in any position without it falling back or forward, Nope, it just stays put. not sure if i can tell if theres any bad pixels, so perhaps thats a good thing. The resolution is perfect for a 15in screen, haven't used it outside, but I've got a chandelier behind me, and it's not that bad, compared to the HP dv6700, with that I could see nothing.

EDIT* Is a little dim, Could be brighter.

Heat... From the right clicker on the mouse, all the way to the bottom arrow key, the whole area is warm, sometimes annoying warm, borderline hot. the bottom of the notebook radiates heat through to your lags, tho when you touch the bottom, it doesn't feel that warm, also the back side by the vent can get pretty heated. I see why the power cord needs a fan, It gets pretty hot. And the fan on the brick is kind of odd, it turns on and off ever 1.5 seconds, a few times I had to stop and listen, I thought there was another storm coming( We've had thunder storms off and on all day).

EDIT* It seems the longer I use the laptop the further to the left the heat has been spreading, It is half way across the touch pad now, and if you hold your finger on the finger print reader, it feels like it is burning.

Gaming was decent, When I was playing cod4 it was getting pretty heated in combat, and my frames were dropping real low, unplayable low. But was still great for the most part, I Played cod4 on line and saw no problems whatsoever. I hooked the notebook up to my 46 inch plasma using the hdmi cable, but I couldn't get sound to run through it. Maybe it doesn't support sound, or maybe I wasn't doing it right, we'll see. Graphics where great, crisp, on high settings, but gpu temps did get to about 83 degrees C.

EDIT* The fps where great, But it's when I started to record the fps dropped, and it was in a very intense battle scene on SP mode. with AA at 4x and res at 1440x900 with all other settings and textures maxed at highest settings. I'm sure there were many factors that caused the FPS to lower, however Gaming On line was perfect, No lag, No Problems.


wifi, works great, no problems.

Looks, Actually I was more than surprised with the looks, very nice, not showie, but has clean slick looks.

EDIT* Easily gets fingerprints, The cover gets a dirty stained look real fast.

Mouse Pad, if thats what you want to call is it small, smaller than I've seen, but I like it, actually I prefer it smaller, so works out great, the clickers are a bit stiff, I got to add a little pressure, but something I'm sure to get used to. The palm res area is smooth.

EDIT* It seems to double click sometimes when I'm not even touching it.

Weight, It's heavy, heavier than I thought it was going to be, but again, it isn't really a problem.

DVD player, This is actually something that quite bothers me, It's location. Every time I pick up the laptop I grab both sides, and I constantly hit the button on the player to eject it, was especially a bother when i was 90% down with my Crysis install and picked it up only to press the button and open it, hah, luckily I closed it fast enough it didn't interrupt the install. but still Bad placement and/or very touchy eject button.

EDIT* Extremely annoying! The very worst thing about this laptop.

2nd EDIT* This is actually becoming an issue for me.

Web-cam Works pretty, Needs sufficient background lighting, otherwise it's pretty dark. Quality looks pretty decent though.

Fingerprint Reader Works great, took a second to get used to, but works great, I swipe my finger it opens anything I want it to. Great idea.

Battery When it drops to 10% a loud alert goes off (one loud beep) and than repeats about ever 30 seconds till you plug it again, Another great feature I think, theres nothing worse than when your notebook just dies on you.

Battery Life I will do some further tests with this today.

EDIT* I set the profile to High Performance, and it ran for about an hour an 40 minutes unplugged, I was surfing the net the entire time.
2nd EDIT* 2 hours 10 minutes on power saver mode, it went into forced sleep mode @ 4%.

Build Quality It seems pretty Solid, Heavy enough to be solid, I've noticed though that its pretty cheap plastic, on the left palm rest you can squeeze and watch the flex, almost as if it could break pretty easy.

Noise If you stick your head by the keyboard you hear a ringing hum thats got a high pitched whine to it. it's not as noticeable with your head not right next to it, but still not silent, but can't expect it to be, with how much power is in it.

Well, thanks for reading my first review ever, and I'll add more as I think of it, that should be enough for now, Hope this helps to give a few people some better ideas of the Clevo M860to/Sager NP8660.

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eres a pic of Cpuz and temps, while rnning the computer in maximum battery life mode.






3dmark06




vista Index Score



Temps 1




Temps 2





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cod4

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crysis

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Nice review.... but I really hope that you are NOT using it on your lap... especially since you seem to be describing feeling the heat through your legs and such.

I still recommend to get a notebook cooler if you want to guarantee a good surface to use the notebook on that wont block the vents of fans.

But 83C is actually a great temp for such a high-end videocard.

 

very nice review! thanks, and enjoy your new laptop.

 

Your hard drive is quite a bit hot so you should be careful of that too.

 

It is official..Gophn is the notebook cooler nazi!

 

That heat thing is really bothering me... getting so hot that the FPS gets unplayably low? That sounds like a heat problem to me. Other than that, thanks for the review and the laptop sounds solid other than that. Then again, what can I expect? It is a 15.4" gaming laptop after all. At least it's not 100C like that m15x. I'm sure it's fine if you have a cooling pad for intense gaming.

One question though, does the GPU produce heat depending on the intensity of the game? Or are the clock speeds the same on all games so it always gets that hot?

 

Eh, what resolution and settings did you use for the games?

Also AA/AF?

How did you record the game footage? If you used a software, it is normal to experience reduced performance.

I am still not sure that the Intel Turbo Memory is a good idea for performance...

Thank you for your review.

 

I think you need to read that passage again.

 

Thats a good point, since FRAPS will decrease the framerate if you record.

 

Thanks a lot Steven! And congratulations for putting together a great review!

 

Yes Gophn, It's on my lap right now but I've got a Belkin laptop cooler, hoever its not plugged in. What would be the best cooler for this, when I was playing I was using the laptop cooler, but I'm just not to sure this is a good one.

Gaming Res was at 1440 x 900 and AA was at 4x.

and yeah, 83 degees C seems pretty hot.

 

Also, I used Fraps to record.

Thanks guys, and thanks for the +rep Youdontneedtoknow.

 

The best cooler for a 15.4" is probably NZXT Cryo LX... its quite expensive compared to others... but has the most airflow.

The next ones I would recommend are:
- Zalman ZM-NC1000/NC2000
- Cooler Master Infinite

Other notebook coolers (like Belkin, Vantec, Targus, etc..) with static fans (focused on particular locations) are average... nothing special... I consider them crap from my tests... unless if you noteobok's vents line up to the static fan locations.

 

No pictures ? It seems like a pretty solid notebook. How loud is it? Congrats on getting yours.

 

I believe if you don't run FRAPS and if you disable AA, you will get much better frame rates.

 

I am still waiting my 13 dollars cooler to get shipped to me.

And you welcome Steven you deserve the rep

 

Slightly off topic question (for Gophn/notebook cooler nazi or anyone who can answer): assuming that I use the Zalman NC2000, how much of a temp difference do you think I would see (with GPU, HDD, etc.)? (although 60-80C laptops during winter in Michigan sounds pretty nice)

@Steven: nice review! Thanks, and enjoy that beast of a laptop (+rep )

 

Thanx gophn, It's a small invest to protect an expensive investment

http://www.unistorage.com/unistorage/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=2518730

and also thanx for that advice Bluemak

I dont notice any noice maybe a slight hum, but nothing worth mentioning.

And also Stephan, thanx for the Rep

 

You should read all of X2P's reviews and comparisons with the Zalman coolers and his 15.4" gaming notebook.

They are quite good.

And visit the NBR Cooling Central.

 

I read in the giant cooler guide thing that some laptops cannot supply the NZXT Cryo with enough power or something... does this apply to the m860tu?

 

OMG is it that loud?
is it the only notebook with fanned brick? If not does any make that sound too?
Can i turn it off?

Another question:
I mostly play WoW, will i have the same problem of low frame rates if i maxed the settings?
I have now an old toshiba A100 with ATI x1600, in Main cities especially Shattrah (crowded) the frame rates reach 0 (unplayable at all). This happens while lowering ALL Settings.
Do you think it will become that hot with WoW or just cod4 need more? (Sorry i don't know much about graphics)

 

You'll run WoW maxed at 60 FPS easy.

 

If you insist on using the notebook on your lap, then get the Cooler Master Infinite, since it was made to be used on multiple surfaces (even soft ones like laps, bed, couch).

It draws its air from the back, while other coolers draws air from the bottom.

I have not seen that issue with some people that have used it with their new systems near me.

 

"I thought there was another storm coming"

Thats it im looking for an actively cooled power brick with similar power ratings -.-

 

haha, no it's not that loud, I was meaning the sound of wind, not thunder haha. The fan is only slightly noticeable, but thats because its less than 2 feet from my head.

 

Where did you put that PS?

Or where did you put your head?

 

steve, do you plan to undervolt it?

 

FRAPS, AA, no wonder you got some lag. Turn up the resolution more/use 2xAA, max.

 

Hey Gophn, I've looked, but can't find the Cooler Master Infinite anywhere to buy it. you wouldn't happen to know hwere would you?

No I wont undervolt it,

Thanx for the tip Arom

 

Best review yet steveninspokane. The heat levels sound as expected but I'm a bit worried by those low frame-rate levels. Perhaps I missed it but what settings did you use?

So you couldn't describe it anyway as a an being similar to an army of pneumatic drills going off in a hailstorm? Happy the doc won't have to supply some hearing-aids after using this then as some people have stated.

 

Haha Oiad, Thank you.

And I think the frames were low because of runing frap, and using AA 4x. I hd all the settings on highest when playing cod4.

 

Here ya go:
http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=154090

$31.99 + $10 shipping

The Cooler Master Infinite is not officially available in the US yet, but you can find them if you try hard enough.

Or you can go eBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZcoolerQ20masterQ20infiniteQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

 

just curious - from what i heard about undervolting, its easy and almost failsafe. why wouldn't you do it? i only ask because im thinking of undervolting mine when it arrives

 

Undervolting without being careful will have the same result as a bad overclock: a system that won't POST.

Now don't confuse this with a fried system (Which is difficult to accomplish, even with overclocking), because when a system doesn't POST, it'll restart with default values.

A system that refuses to POST can be pretty scary to some that don't really know what they're doing, so it's just not recommended for everyone.


Some advice to you, do NOT touch your motherboard voltages (meaning your North and South bridges), but CPU and RAM should be ok. As well, test your system thoroughly, and make sure that it's running perfectly at 100% load with your undervolt, or else, just like an overclock, your system may restart and revert to default.

I definitely will be undervolting mine when I get it. There's almost no reason not to if you're careful and patient with what you're doing.

 

uh oh, heating issues


*grins*

 

Please excuse if I missed this, but is there a max fans ability (FN+1) with the M860TU? If so, how much louder does it become and what difference does it make to the temps.

Good first review by the way!

 

Um....Not good. Let's hope this is due to premature drivers than anything else.

 

again, looks like an isolated incident again.
is that you deathwinger making the screen wide?

 

great review Steven.

 

No, they haven't added that functionality yet.

I was going to undervolt, but when I ran the Orthos stress test for 15 minutes my CPU temp maxed at 58C, so I figured there was no point.

 

it will save battery life though and cause the fan not to have to come on as often wich would further extend battery life.

 

Oh, I thought undervaluing meant less performance, If thats not the case, Than I will give it a go, but I'll wait till someone comes out with a Guide of some kind. When I built my Gaming rig (desktop) a few months ago, I had a Q6700 in it, and I OC'd it from 2.66 to 3.5 ghz. It took awhile but I got it stable, thanks to reading hours upon hours (upon hours) of guides, temp guides, and so on. So I am aware for what a system post means.

And like Ive already repeated, but will add to my review, the fps where great, But it's when I started to record that the fps dropped, and it was in a very intense battle scene on SP mode. with AA at 4x and res at 1440x900 with all other settings and textures maxed at highest settings.

Again, Thank you to all who have given me rep for my review, I appreciate it, and thanks for the compliments also. This is only my first review, and I just finished English 99 this last quarter, so maybe after ENG101, I might have the guts to do it again, but than I might have to buy another lappy,

 

There's a very nice guide right here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=235824

I know the first thing im doing when i get my NP8660 is undervolting it

 

Thanks for the link, Does Undervaluing void your warranty?

 

No. It's software not hardware.

It seems like nothing voids your warranty unless you damage something.

And it's pretty hard (if not impossible?) to damage something by under-volting. Since it's software based the worst case scenario you would have to face is a reformat/reinstall of Windows. If you go too low all that will happen is that your CPU will become unstable because it doesn't have enough juice to run, that's it.

It's not the same as overclocking or over-volting because the CPU isn't being stressed which could cause permanent damage to it.

 

BUT WAIT!

(thats the 2.53 25 watt)
still want to undervolt? i kinda do... i just wonder if you'd be able to switch from undervolt to normal on the fly..

 

ALSO, Heres another problem, not sure if it has a long end outcome, but the heat that we all have been mentioning on the right side of the palmrest, well after haing my lid closed for about 30 minutes, I opened it up, and the screen on the right top side is rather warm, the side that was above the right palm rest. the left side of the screen is cold, so can heat eventually cause monitor problems?

 

I think as a rule of thumb you're not supposed to close your laptop screen while it's on anyway.

You can under-volt without downclocking. But, the lower your clocks the lower you can set the voltage.

 

I've always closed my screen when the laptop is on, I've never heard of that rule. Every laptop I've ever used you can close the lid, and it goes into sleep mode.

 

Dang, I want this size notebook, but it seems with its size it won't be able to handle much. As Hophn suggested, a notebook cooler should help plenty.