N650DU with i7-7700k

Would it be possible to use i7-7700k in N650DU? As I see, most resellers use CPUs with no more than 35W TDP. Others limit to 65W, with one exception:
https://www.laptopplus.nl/producten/clevo-n650du
They offer it with Intel Core i5-6600K, which is 91W. I asked them if it was a mistake and was said that no, they indeed offer that CPU in that chassis.

So:
1) What's the thermal limit of N650DU?
2) Is the electrical limit high enough?
3) Is there a way to limit TDP in BIOS, so it doesn't overheat with reasonable fan speed (I actually want it to be always fairly quiet)?

I'd prefer 7700k over 7700 because:
1) Even with a TDP limit, single threaded performance will be better than 7700.
2) It is possible to get pre-binned CPUs and thus undervolt better.

 

is this?
http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=927&lang=en

 

http://www.ggsdata.se/laptops/bilder/n650du/N650DUDM_v3.0.pdf

Processor
• Intel® Core™ I7-6700 processor (14nm, 3.4GHZ, DDR4-2133MHz, 8MB Smart Cache, TDP: 65W)
• Intel® Core™ I5-6500 processor (14nm, 3.2GHZ, DDR4-2133MHz, 6MB Smart Cache, TDP: 65W)
• Intel® Core™ I3-6320 processor (14nm, 3.9GHZ, DDR4-2133MHz, 4MB Smart Cache, TDP: 51W)
• Intel® Pentium® G4520 processor (14nm, 3.6GHZ, DDR4-2133MHz, 3MB Smart Cache, TDP: 51W)
• Intel® Celeron® G3920 processor (14nm, 2.9GHZ, DDR4-2133MHz, 2MB Smart Cache, TDP: 47W)

 

Interesting concept and cheap, at that. Only thing is they sell it with a 90W adapter, so before thermal throttle can kick in it'd still power throttle. Could throw in a bigger adapter, but even then ... cooling a 91W cpu in a slim 15.6"? Lacking a dgpu, perhaps it uses two fans and dual heatpipes + heatsinks. If it does manage to run a 7700K unrestrained then you have a great office/coding system.

It also has an odd, weirdly enough.

 

One thing came to my mind...what is the real power usage of i5-6600k and i7-7700k?
They are both in the 91W TDP bracket and that means that they use between 65W and 91W, not that they use exactly 91W, right?
I'll make a calculation:
6600k has 6% faster base clock than 6600 and the same turbo clock. It has the same GPU, cache and I suppose the same voltage too. *If* max power consumption is linear with frequency and there are no factors at play that a noob like me is unaware of, then i5-6600k uses at most 69W.
And the same calculation with 7700k leads to 76W. With a fair CPU, undervolt and no underclock, getting down to 69W should be possible.
Can someone confirm or deny that it works like that?

Aside from that, this barebone is very outstanding on both price-performance and size-performance fronts even with i7-7700. The cheapest notebook that is faster that I found is P751DM2-G (Some claim MSI16L3 to be cheaper, but not in here). And it's much more expensive. The smallest that is faster is MSI16L3. Much bigger too.

 

The i7 -7700K uses 98Watt under stresstest and under gaming around 77Watt
The i5 - 6600K uses 73 watt under stresstest and under gaming around 53Watt.

If you decide for a 7700K setups, you might want to consider a bigger power supply.

 

So the difference is TDP between i7-7700 and i7-7700k is not purely because of clocks, but rather because the former is throttled?
Can we throttle 7700k too to get single threaded performance of 7700k and multithreaded of 7700?

 

I think u're not quite aware of what TDP means.
You can read this real quick

Also i don't think you should geta 7700K to throttle it. That would be a waste of potential, just go for the non K version and u're set.

 

I indeed got some things wrong. I took the opportunity and found a better name of what I'm looking for: dynamic configurable TDP. Will BIOS allow me to lower it in 7700k?

My workload is nearly always bottlenecked by the CPU, sometimes by single threaded parts and sometimes by multithreaded ones. The former happen rarely, but tend to last much longer and thus are more annoying. Getting 7700k and throttling it to 7700 levels will get me ~15% boost on the single-threaded parts, for a mere €45.

Getting a chassis that can support unthrottled i7-7700k would give me a further 15% boost on multithreaded parts, but that's another €640.

 

Thermal Design Power (TDP) represents the average power, in watts, the processor dissipates when operating at Base Frequency with all cores active under an Intel-defined, high-complexity workload.

 

TDP is a "ballpark" figure Intel gives so system designers can have an idea how much cooling they need to engineer. Its not actual consumption though.

ALL kaby lake quads are the SAME die. There are variations in quality of manufacture that mean some end up as low end and others as top end. Even among those that end up as top bin there are variations that end up limiting the top overclock a chip can do (and what voltage it needs to do it). So basically you can underclock a 7700K to 7700 speed *AND VOLTAGE* and it would roughly use as much power. Note voltage... Undervolting reduces power consumption drastically so to minimise power draw undervolt it as much as it can go and still be stable.

The easier way than figuring out what multipliers to use would just be to let your CPU do it in real time... set your CPU power limit in BIOS or in Throttlestop (PL1) to what you want to constrain it to and clock it as high as you want to, it will go as fast as it can up to the limit you set.

Adapters are usually good for a bit more than their rating but it's not a good idea over the long run. For instance I could get up to 180W out of the "120W" on my old Asus a decade ago before it'd trip overcurrent and turn off.

 

Then the question should be, do you really need it to be mobile?
If you don't you should opt for a desktop, it's cheaper and will not have the same issues.

If it is indeed needed then do what bennyg was writing, it's the best way to deal with it. Also just to be safe, try and get a bigger power supply, I doubt the 90W PSU will do you any good if you run a 7700K, it's not good if you stress out a PSU over time.

 

Thank you all, things are much clearer now, though not fully still.
1. Yes, it has to be a laptop.
2. If 7700k uses 40% more power with 17% more frequency than 7700. So it uses (exactly) 20% more power per cycle. Does it mean that it runs 20% higher voltage? BTW, If we add 7700t to the calculation, it would use 66.8% of 7700 power per cycle.
I tried to search for voltages of 7700, 7700k. Found nothing official, just voltage (and current) limits.
On forums people tend to report either 1.248v or 1.35v for 7700k, I found an account that BIOS update led to a change from 1.35 to 1.248. I did a search for 7700 too and just found 1.35v. So there seems to be no change here.
Would anyone care to clarify?
3. I read some information about customizing turbo multipliers. I think: maybe I could get 7700k with a 3.6 ghz base clock and 7700-like voltage (or actually the best frequency*voltage combo that I can get within the limit), but increase single-threaded turbo frequency to whatever is max stable?
Is it still supported on 7700k? Is it supported on Clevo boards? If not, can it be done in the OS? How does one test if the CPU is stable in turbo boost? By disabling all cores but one, disabling turbo and overclocking normally, repeated for each core?

 

Power goes up with the square of the voltage and linearly with frequency typically so it would only need a small voltage and frequency bump to use that much more power.

 

I would say probably no unless you are doing some undevolting. That system is designed to deal with a maximum of 65W for the CPU. You could try a 7700T... or an undervolted 7700K , which would probably end up being the same a s a 7700T.

 

I tried a lot to search the net, but there's so much dated (unclear if undated) and / or contradictory information that I'm nearly just as lost as several hours of searching before.
I see that in general there are 2 places where I can control my max CPU frequency:
* BIOS
* OS
When it comes to BIOS, people say that I need a Z-series chipset to be able to configure anything. This Clevo has H170. Will it have any under / overclocking options?

When it comes to the OS, there's a lot of information about Windows. But I want to dual boot Linux and FreeBSD. There, information is very cloudy and usually many years old. It may not be the best place for this question, but I'll ask it too for completeness: Do Linux users limit themselves to BIOS under/overclocking nowadays?

Does i7-7700k support controlling turbo multipliers?


Overclocking aside, I'm somewhat worried not to fry the motherboard by overloading it either electrically or thermally.

I see there's a single company that offers N650DU with a 91W CPU and another that offers N650KK1 with i7-7700k. N650KK1 seems to be very similar, so it is somewhat relevant.

Are my worries excessive?

 

Yoy can as well use Throttlestop or Xtu (TS is the best choice) You can find a lot of useful info in TS GUIDE Ask TS author @unclewebb in the TS guide if you need info.

 

The K series wont overclock in an H series motherboard on the desktop.

 

Both are Windows tools, without ports to other platforms, so they are both useless for me.
But your post isn't, learning about TS let me better understand how does such tool work. It simply reads and writes model specific registers, which Linux can do as well. Microsoft documents its MSRs, so that already goes part of the way. I read the Kaby Lake part of the manual looking for voltage offset and found none though. I'm going to need some more help on that, but I'm pretty convinced that I can find it. In particular, the TS author seems to be a helpful guy.

Do you mean BIOS overclocking or both BIOS and OS?
How about undervolting?

 

As stated by @Meaker@Sager H series motherboard aka the MB in this laptop is locked for OC possiblitys. But you can undervolt the processor(if bios allow it). I don't think TS and I'm sure XTU doesn't support Linux. You could talk with @unclewebb regarding software for voltage control for cpu with Linux if bios don't support it.

 

Multiplier control over stock is locked, otherwise it comes down to BIOS options as mentioned.