NBR, Which is better value? Which do you recommend? 680M or 7970M

This thread is for AnandTech, Guru3D, HardForum, Rage3D, AMD and anyone else who is curious about the sentiment of Clevo owners and Notebook/Mobile gaming afficionados.

So even if you haven't bought a Clevo or considering one, but you are aware of the comparisons and issues with 680M and 7970M, please vote.

Go ahead and comment, express your opinion, rage or passion for either AMD/Nvidia. I don't want a flame war, but competition between Red and Green here is a good thing.

My sentiment:

I sincerely hope the 7970M is fixed. I have owned the HD5870M and been a supporter of AMD over Nvidia for years now and been a fan of a company that supports open initiatives rather than proprietary.

But as of right now, if someone was to ask me, hey I want to buy a gaming notebook, I can either get AMD with Enduro or Nvidia and Optimus, I'd say, pay more for Nvidia. Same performance theoretically sure, but in reality, the Nvidia will work and outperform your AMD in over half the games. Nvidia even costing more is a far better value, because the AMD Enduro is broken.

I would also say, yes CatalystCreator, the face of AMD drivers tweeted they are investigating the issue, but that was 2 months ago with no movement. We have an advocate on another forum, but AMD has not given a reply to his inquiries, dead silence on the other end. And even reviewers like AnandTech who are AMD friendly seems to think it's OK that AMD is working on drivers for the past 6 months with no sign of change still, just because AMD claims they are working on it. It is an outrage that after 6 months AMD still doesn't have drivers supporting Enduro on GCN cores.

 

In my personal opinion, based on nothing but just my gut feeling, AMD is not going to fix Enduro for the 7900 series. If (IF!) I could turn back time or find a way to upgrade to the 680M for $300, I'd do it.

 

quoted and fixed

 

If I was buying now, I would definately go with the 680M. I might regret getting it though if AMD eventually fixes the Enduro problem (300€ is a lot of money), but not nearly as much that I will regret buying 7970M if the issues are never fixed.

 

If AMD can resolve their issues, the answer to this would be a no-brainer.

If someone did not have enough money for the 680M, I would even say the 675M is a better value than the 7970M. My friend with an NP9170 with the exact specs as me, except he has a 675M, runs BF3 and other games at a much higher FPS than I do with the same or higher settings, which is sad considering my card is supposed to be far superior.

 

Haha. I wish! At this point, I might as well wait for the next gen GPUs. The amount of money I'd have to throw just to switch is no longer worth it. My window has closed. If I caught this sooner, I'd already be grinning with a 680M.

 

ahah again u seem right dude, btw never again with AMD, i knoiw nVidia is more expensive, but sadly u more u pay, the more support u get, simple as that.....

 

I don't understand why people only wish to pressure AMD, put some pressure on your resellers and demand a fair deal on the GPU switch, if that is what you want. They are the ones that sold you a defective product.

 

Just to explain why my gut feeling is that AMD wouldn't fix this for current 7970M owners... If they focus their manpower on fixing our issues, they'd be half a step behind nVidia for the next gen GPUs, who are most likely chugging along ahead of the 'race'. Now if you're making a push for that market share you are already losing, what would you do? Of course, the smart thing to do is focus all your resources on building the next gen AND fixing the issues so that series will be without it. And while you're at it, plan to drop prices just below nVidia's next gen in order to lure all the suckers (as AMD sees it) back into buying their card. What about the current 7970M owners? Oblivion, meet 7970M users, 7970M users meet oblivion. Like we were never in the picture.

I already tried that. The answer was clear: You can buy 680M for $880 (or something) and wait a week or so. (But what about my 7970M?) You can eBay it, if you want.

In other words, that's your problem. Not mine.

Yeah, you can say Malibal sold me a defective product, but if that's the truth then Clevo is the one to blame for selling them the defective product. It's not like boutiques can get reimbursements so why should they take a massive loss? I completely understand their side, too. But the more you move further up the chain, it all leads to, "why didn't AMD just make a working product to begin with or fix it?"

I've accepted the fact I'm stuck with the 7970M. I've even accepted that there will be no fix for this. These shady practices by AMD will not be forgotten, though.

So it's not like I'm shrugging over here saying "sucks to be you" because I do play BF3 and obviously I own a 7970M. We're on the same boat. I just choose to not sweat this whole thing. Although, if given a chance to help make others aware or better yet be heard by AMD, I will voice my opinion.

 

I mean come on. It should not be up to us to budge AMD, it should be the resellers doing it for us. We bought the product from THEM, not AMD. So if the resellers lose some money that's not our problem. It's the resellers' and AMD's problem.

A reseller should not get away with first selling a defective product and then not making any actions to remedy the situation to the customer. You are protected by consumer rights, they have to remedy your situation. At least those of us that bought our laptop from within the EU region have been offered a switch to a 680M for a reasonable price (~300€). Why shouldn't you demand for same kind of terms? They are all Clevo resellers.

I hope people take note which resellers are screwing up their customers and remember those that have acted fairly. There are risks in every business, and the resellers should bear the costs of those risks, not the customers.

 

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, ultimately I can't force my reseller. Defective or not, upgrades or changes to our orders are final after the 30-day window. I signed and agreed to those terms as unfair as it may be. Believe me, like I said above, if I can just go back and not hesitate choosing between the two... If only.

 

Any terms you might have signed will not overrule the laws regarding consumer rights (at least in Europe). You cannot make terms that make the deal worse for the customer. The law exceeds all contracts, EULAs etc. between a retailer and a customer.

 

We have a 1 year warranty from our sellers, technically speaking the 7970m is "broken" so it should fall under warranty, so if they say no they aren't upholding their warranty agreement with you.

 

This :thumbsup:. They could always provide you with a working 7970M though . But since that is not going to happen anytime soon, they must remedy the situation in some other manner.

 

I work for a corporate law firm and while I can easily ask for legal advice to pursue an upgrade from my reseller, I am too embarrassed to even bother the partners for something like this. I'm not trying to belittle anyone here but $2,000 is a lot of money only for most of us (that's including me). To these guys (vendor, OEM, builders/resellers, etc.) including my firm, it's chump change. Two thousand bucks is only like 4 hours worth of phone calls.

So while it's a big deal for us, from their perspective, it's nothing. Not even worth a phone call and much less to put into motion a lawsuit. Know that AMD knows this. They know it will take a hard-nosed, stubborn, pissed off customer with nothing better to do for this to even be seen before a judge. What we're doing now right here in NBR, and wherever we can, is all we can really do. And believe me, I'm not a pessimist. I'm equally as unhappy as you, but like I said this is just another expensive lesson learned. Right or wrong, money talks.

The thing is it's not broken per se. Not to the letter of what broken is by definition. As I've posted above, Malibal knows this and it would take for those who are stuck like I am to hire an attorney to call and intimidate Malibal just to upgrade to the 680M. Personally, I won't bother any of our attorneys here for such a tiny personal (in their perspective) issue. Others who want to give it a try, just as long as you don't pay thousands for legal advice on top of the $300 to upgrade to 680M, go for it.

 

The card is merely a part of one singular product. And that product is not working properly. It is not about the card per se, but about delivering a fully functional product. You are not getting what you paid for.

 

I disagree with your argument and I don't want to argue about this anymore but I'm definitely not wasting an ounce of my energy on trying to get Malibal to upgrade my card. I've already made enough phone calls to them.

 

To any future buyer contemplating the purchase of a laptop....spend the extra money for an Nvidia GPU.

One of my greatest regrets was buying the 7970M in the Clevo P170EM laptop because my reseller said it was the latest and greatest.

My second regret is now finding out my reseller doesn't stand behind it's statement on the hardware nor stands behind it's statement of superior customer service and wants full retail price to make my laptop playable for the price I paid for it.

Bottom line....I got screwed, it was my fault for trusting AMD and my reseller, and I will never forget either.

 

Enduro is Enduro. Sure, they will have to modify it between card generations slightly, but unless they overhaul it, I would expect the issue would still be present in the next generation. If they fix it for those cards, the fix would probably be able to be applied to the 7000 series very easily.

 

You're assuming it's a software fix. What if it isn't? What if it's both?

 

Stopped buying ATI cards in '08. You guys are at least a few years late to the party.


Question is, how come 30 days wasn't enough to figure the issues out.

 

The thing is both Nvidia and AMD have had issues. What if you had an Nvidia 8000/9000 series and it burnt out like many did, then had a 7970m crippled by enduro. Would you stop buying both Nvidia and AMD? Neither company is trustworthy.

 

They both just want our money. Those crooks

 

Give us a third option! For free!!!

 

We can only dream :thumbsup:

 

Have to say after seeing such a lack of effort from AMD I could not recommend 7970m period anymore. If I had known that they were going to take this long, if ever, to even acknowledge this problem I would have spent the extra money.

 

Because the issue is not apparent in every game or situation. For many like me, we would not have known we had issues until we tried certain games. That makes it quite likely to miss the window.

 

Go for the 680M. Go for it. Get it and don't look back.

edit; whoa 1000th post

 

Excellent advice. After 4 months...I'm done with this issue. Just ordered the 680M and will be back to gaming as soon as I install it.

I will never forget 2 things:

Crappy hardware and drivers.....AMD 7970M GPU

and

The great Company who helped me when I needed it......Mythlogic MYTHLOGIC :: Computers | Service | Support

 

Really tough question to be honest. I find the 7970M to be great in all of the games I play; However, it's not performing in everything as well as advertised, and who's to say how well Enduro will work with future releases unless AMD fixes the problem? As-is the card is a crippled beast. In light of this I would likely have gone with the 680M if I could do it all over again, but that opinion would change instantaneously if AMD were to fix the problem. If AMD fails to correct this problem then they will lose a very loyal customer.

 

I thought you were one of the people who had no problems with Enduro. What made you change your mind? (serious question)

 

Even if i weren't a person affected by the 7970m issues (I was and switched to 680m) I wouldn't want to purchase an AMD product just because of how they handled this. Its completely and utterly pathetic. There is no way they can even pretend they had no idea about the issue. since the beginning of June all you had to do was type 7970m or enduro in google and the first page had at least 5 hits talking about how messed up it was. Either they ignored the issue or this company that develops high end tech (supposedly) has no idea how to use the internet.

 

Sorry but despite the fact that the GTX 680m is a better card, it is a HORRIBLE value. It is not worth $300 more for the performance gain in my opinion. Now the GTX 675m is a GREAT value, and if I could make maybe $100 back I would downgrade to it if I could. That is unless AMD/Clevo/Sager fix the Enduro utilization issue.

 

decided to delete my post...already said my piece earlier.

 

On the contrary. The 675M is a 580M, a less efficient card nearing its end of life, if not already there. It's running hot and incapable of running faster. Getting it nowadays is a huge compromise. You'll have to cut corners to make demanding games run smoothly with it today, not to mention a few months from now.

The 7970M is extremely powerful and a huge bang for the buck. But as you all already know, here's the catch - it's like eating the best juicy sandwich ever, but knowing in the back of your mind there is a little moldy spot somewhere in there. You simply can't enjoy it to the fullest. Even if you will never suffer that Enduro issue, it'll always be there, ridiculing you, making fun of you for buying stuff that doesn't work as it should. I wouldn't want to feel that after spending so much cash on a high-end laptop.

The 680M is a powerful behemoth. True, it is costly, but what nVIDIA did with it was lower its clock to try to make it as cool as possible. Slap in a cooler pad and/or follow one of the cooling mods in here and you can really tap the card's full power. I've noticed it firsthand - a small overclock done in a few seconds gave me such a boost in games. I'm not talking about a few FPS here and there, but more in the 20-30 FPS difference. And even without adequate cooling the 680M reached 86 C degrees, which is comparable to the 675M, and despite what the experts here say, is well within considerable temperature range. I shudder to think what a modded vBIOS will give you.

So, basically, that 300 extra brings you:

1. Peace of mind that you bought something that works as it should.
2. No need to worry about upgrading later on, constantly monitor your hardware, etc.
3. An ability to really speed things up when needed later on, buying you a few more months until you'll be ready to upgrade.

I say that's quite a good value for 300 more, considering the entire laptop costs thousands.

 

At the moment, if I really didn't need the laptop right now and I didn't want to spend extra 300€, I would wait until the end of the year to see if Enduro is fixed (at least two driver fixes are incoming and this time they are unified). 680m is really, really pricey. I mean you can get two 670 gtx with its price. And if the 7970M is fixed it will either match or beat the 680M most of the time. If you need a laptop right now and got the cash, go for the 680m.

 

Two cards solutions are never as good as one powerful card, IMO.

 

But even one 670 trashes the 680m...

 

Oh, you're talking about desktop's GPUs.

Yeah, desktops are nowhere near in that equation. For the price of high-end laptop you can buy a much more powerful desktop.

But that's not really what were talking about here.

 

I am sorry but as promising as the 7970M is ... this isn't the 6970M vs 485M or 580M again, nor the 6990M against 580M.. this is a failure, even commented on by Anandtech.

The only solution is the 680M

 

I have to agree with the majority,
right now, today go for the 680M, OR if you wann safe money go for the 650M wich has huge OC potential and is much much cheaper.
675M is to me an equally valid option, just because its cheap.
7970M only if you are willing to be dissapointed if no good drivers ever arrive, AND if you are not in a hurry with that.
OR 7970M if you are buying AW or other muxed graphics laptop, so you can turn enduro off and enjoy this great card.

 

I don't mean to take this off-topic but what did you mean by this comment, Vozier?

"and again thanks! I will definetely buy from anadtech in the future, just for this."

What are they selling?

 

LOL that was an error, i got confused with AVA, hoped no one noticed i figured it out after i posted.
I would definetely trust them anyway, but obviously i failed big on that comment.... ROFL....

Not that i have any money left to buy anything, spent all my savings on my incoming clevo P150 WIT 7970M, lol

 

Oh, okay. 10char

 

680M all the way for me, though I haven't tried the 7970M personally I've seen enough on the forums here.

With a slight voltage boost and some overclocking, I can comfortably hit 8000-8200 GPU scores in 3DMark11. My 680M functions identically to a stock Geforce GTX 660 Ti at these settings and once I perform the foil mod I'm guessing my temperatures will remain around 85-87 even under maximum load.

Keep in mind, the stock GTX 660 Ti exceeds the performance of a desktop GTX 580. I basically have an overclocked desktop GTX 580 in my system! I couldn't imagine saying something like that a few months ago. Jokes aside, driver support is consistent, temperatures are under control at stock (and will be under control at all times once I perform an easy mod), and Optimus works as intended in most cases. Hell, I can override Optimus and force the computer to run particular applications using the dGPU as needed, so it doesn't even really matter.

If I had a P150HM maybe I'd be singing a different tune, but on the P150EM the 680M is definitely my pick.

 

I made the decision for the 680m after just a week of hearing of the Enduro issues when I ordered my P150EM. I've been down this path many a times thinking things will be fixed. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, and at the pace of technology, more frequently they aren't. They just release the next tech or model and it's fixed with that. I'm a big advocate for AMD, but this round, it just didn't make any sense to me. The price premium for nVidia is still stupid, but this time you almost just have to grin and bear it because the alternative is too painful.

 

Now the real question is, how many said the very same thing oiver Optimus?