NP8851 vs NP8954

I just got my Sager NP8851 on Monday, and I'm pretty happy with it so far. One of my friends was looking at it and was considering buying one, however it looks like the NP8851 has been replaced by the NP8954. Spec wise it looks identical but does anyone know if the chassis has changed? If so is it an improvement over the 8851?

Also, my 8851 seems to be running quite well with the cooling so far, but has anyone run some tests to see temperatures under heavy gaming?

TIA

 

Yeah, it's pretty much the same thing but in a P955 form factor instead of a P950.

 

There are free programs out there which can let you check out the temps. Get HWinfo64, 3Dmark firestrike, Prime95 and see for yourself how the temperatures etc are.

Also I would recommend the MSI GS 65 over your Clevo every time. Your friend could consider that one instead.

 

The gigabyte aero 15x is supreme in the 1070 max q category. Having the 90W 1070 and better thermals than the msi gs65

The sager also has a place in the market because its simply 770$ cheaper on msrp (1529$ vs 2300$)

 

Thanks for the inputs. I wish I'd seen the MSI those are nice specs however I've never been a fan of MSI's restrictions on opening the case. I shouldn't have to risk my warranty just because I want to clean some dust out or upgrade memory down the road.
My friend also wants the sager as was rightly pointed out the other options are far more expensive. I know there are arguments for paying more for a better spec laptop, however you can only use what money you have. Sager has been a solid investment for many of my friends, theirs have been working fine for many years of gaming.

 

The sager is a nice laptop for its price point. But I feel obliged to tell you it uses an inferior gtx 1070 max q. The normal 1070 max-q is as fast as a normal1070n

Laptop the use the 1070 max q 80w version
All msi and sager laptops

Laptops that use the much more powerful 90-100w version

Aero 15x* and asus gx501vs

This laptop uses single channel ram so the card isnt running at its full potential.

Reference scores (3dmark fire strike graphics)
1070 desktop - 17.2k
1070 Notebook - 16.5k
1070 max q 90w - 16.1k
1070 max q 80w - 14.6k

 

You drunk. Stop it.

On average a GTX 1070N scores around 17.1points, while MSI models even get around 19K (same as desktops).

 

Aorus X5 v7 real 1070 + i7 7820hk


Asus zephryus gx501vs 90w max 1070 + i7 7700hq(so the Aorus X5 v7 has the advantage in the cpu department)

the p950hr gtx 1070 80w + i7 7700hq


The 1070 FE is around 17.2k graphics score.how can you say that the 90w max q isn't on par with the 1070N when its within 1% performance of the 1070N in the Aorus X5 v7 and asus gl502vs and alianware laptops ! . I dont care if that titan can clock 2ghz . As long as the max q 90w matches a good number of 1070 laptops the version is on par.


Nvidia produced two versions from each max q. One that is almost on par with real thing due to running at the absoulte point of efficiency and another thats for companies who wanted to go balls in with the slim designs


The 1070 max q 90 w has a power limit of 100w(and a so called "target"of 90w) thats the EXACT SAME TDP ALIANWARE USES FOR THERE normal 1070. While the **** 1070 max q uses a target and a limit of 80w

Thats why no body complains about the 1060 max q. Dell is using the 70w version

 

Thats why I said average and MSI, I don't count in castrated notebooks like the Gigabyte.
Here stock GE 73VR fresh from notebookcheck:


MSI notebooks have TDP of 150 on their GTX 1070 and other notebooks have stock TDP on 115W.

Alienware also scores around 17.6K in firestrike. here

Acer Predator scoring 16.7K here

So yeah I would appreciate if you claim something that you start sourcing your claims because you obviously like to make silly things up, which will mislead people.

 

Look at how many photots I have provided . And not all 1070 alianware are limited to 100w

Yes, but your feeding a 1070N 33% more power to get 9% more performance. The overwhelming majority of notebooks dont have a 150w tdp. So my statement about the gtx 1070 max q 90w version . The real castrated version is the 80w 1070 . That trash runs at 1240mhz WHEN OVERCLOCKED !!!!!

 

Really guys? Brand new computer I'm happy with.. Im welcomed to the forum by being told my system is trash? Really classy guys, thanks a bunch. I bought the sager knowing full well its not true 1070, but I also know it was easily 700 to 800 dollars cheaper than a full 1070 card. It might not be blazing fast to other cards but you know what? I got it a lot cheaper(more money for extra games) and it runs everything I need a lot faster than my old gtx970 system and will run for a few years extra I have no doubt. So maybe in the future try to be more considerate for the people who can't afford the next budget level. I also wouldn't touch an MSI with a ten foot pole with their ridiculous void warranty stickers that prevent me from opening it to do cleanings or if I feel I want to expand my memory further.

 

If you're happy with it than you made the right choice.

Your card is still a good 25% ahead of a 1060(which beats a 980).


It's a good laptop especially for it's price(best laptop in the 1600$ price range).

Welcome to NBR fourms and sorry on behalf of everyone here.

BTW, people here **** on things alot harder than they praise things. If we don't speak loudly on things we dislike clevo and it's resellers will never care.

 

The companies using those stickers were recently reminded of their illegality.

However ignore the bickering people, they are just using your thread as an inappropriate place to argue, sorry about that.

 

I was sceptical about it too. But I've contacted my local representative and asked if I could open the laptop without losing the warranty and they gave me a green light. Having their written word I didn't hesitate to open it.

 

Congrats on your new system!

 

In the US they are illegal, always worth remember that.

 

Thanks guys. I'm actually in Canada so I'm not sure of the laws for that here. Sadly I saw an MSI in the local computer store in November and it was on a very good sale. I was seriously considering it until I saw the warranty void stickers and walked out. MSI probably has lost some customers because of doing that.

 

I ruined the sticker as well, talked with MSI about they also gave me a green light on it as well. They should proabbly rewrite the text to : "break something and ur warranty is void" :'D

Also the reason why some people have issues with the notebook you have is its retarded EC throttling. If your friend wants to play certain CPU intensive titles or stream games that notebook is a nightmare.

 

EC throttling = a fixable control center issue.

By definition it's not EC throttling

And the CPU isn't a nightmare. You make it look as MSI is using an I7 while clevo uses a pentinum, when in fact they use same CPU. And P955 cpu throttling isn't that bad(GS65 power throttles harder)

 

Those are two different things:

firmware throttle = CPU & GPU combined load limits
CCC v2 throttle = additional GPU temp throttle (will no longer be an issue in newer versions)

 

This is not throttling caused by the CCC. This is EC related.
Also 2.6ghz is quite severe considering the CPU boosts up to 3.9ghz on other notebooks such as the GT 75.

Did you buy the clevo yet?

 

2.6ghz......

It averages 3.75ghz(similar to the GS65) with an 70-80c CPU and a GPU at 69c. All that without LM.

Clevo could push the gpu to 90W+ and get away with it.

Try to watch this video without a baised eye



Not buying anything in the short term(financially related)

 

He is calling the CPU dropping to 2.6ghz( despite averaging 3.75ghz) for 1 sec a "nightmare". His new scapegoat after the CCC V2 throttling fix was discovered

 

Assassins creed origins benchmarking incoming from him as well, which will basicially showcase the throttling even further.

so yeah, try to watch this video without a baised eye.

Meanwhile how the 8750H should perform:


In a nutshell, the throttling is quite severe causing extreme frametime problems and is an absolute disaster for people like me who give a crap about their frametimes.

 

You make it look like the GS65 or the aero 15x won't throttle further than this.

This is thermal throttling, that can be fixed with LM and thermal pads. Not EC throttling, which is mostly unfixable

 

Thermal throttling starts at 93 - 95c normally. Also this exact behaviour is also present in his witcher 3 video, not as drastic since he doesn't do anything CPU intensive, in novigrad his CPU spikes more as well.

to disprove your theory even further:


CPU same temps as in Bf1 however not as erradic throttling since BF4 less demanding on GPU.

As I said, i expect AC:O to be even more disastrous.

 

When throttling starts is customizable. Eurocom probably set it to not surpass 93c.

This MIGHT also be combined system draw limit for P955.

The GS65 averages 3.1ghz stock
The GS65 averages undervolted 3.5ghz
The aero 15x averages 2.9ghz stock
The aero 15x averages undervolted 3.9ghz

These results are from Jarrod tech.

This P955 averaging ~3.3ghz stock without an undervolt is respectable.


Bonus: the GS65 is the only one that can't hold 3.9ghz no matter what you try. As MSI overvolting bios is working as intended. While the P955 and 15X can get it with an undervolt.

 

Which is EC related. Now you got it!

Also that CPU was undervolted etc. While it goes beserk in Bf1, it is not stock.

 

XMG said the max they got from the laptop was 157W(which a 150W psu could deliver)

I'm sceptical this is EC and not thermal throttling. And even if it is, the GS65 can't hold 3.9ghz either so get to work and start ****ting on that too.

 

???? I literally showed you 2 videos of the same notebook where on both videos you have high 80s to low 90s C temps while the BF1 video which was more GPU demanding had much harder throttling issues and you're still thinking it's thermal throttling.

 

The only way to count thermal throttling out is LM.

From your video I can see that once the CPU surpasses 90c it throttles, nothing too complicated in that.

You're so desperate in making the P955 look bad

 

"You're so desperate in making the P955 look bad"

Ever considered you're the one desperate making the P955 looking good?

 

None of those show abnormalities.

Stock I7 8750H at 2.7ghz and an undervolted one at ~3.3ghz in BF1 -while being a BIT less than the competition- isn't unprecedented. And you can't say it's caused by EC and not thermal throttling.

Witcher 3 benchmarks show 3.8ghz average below 80c. Which you ignored.

You pics for BF1 and BF4 show the GPU at very high clocks for an 80w 1070MQ. Your BF1 CPU pic shows is way less useful than the video. And it's caused by thermal throttling

The GS65 power throttles under combined CPU+ GPU load to 3.1ghz(3.5ghz UV) due to MSI bios overvolting.

Show me one GS65 holding 3.9ghz 24/7 with automatic fans,no LM and an UV in BF1.

 

So you say it's normal for the 91c hot CPU to thermal throttle less than the 86c CPU because the hotter it goes the more it should clock?

Also you clearly don't understand how GPU's opperate if you think those are high clocks. In both times the GPU isn't stressed out, since both games aren't actually demanding. The more demanding the game is, the more it utilizes the GPU, Vram, Cuda cores etc., which need more and more power, hence causing the clockspeed to drop severely, that's also the reason why the clockspeed is higher on Bf4 rather than Bf1 and even as low as 1.3 - 1.2ghz on Witcher 3.


Let me guess, thermal throttle at 73c? What happened to the GPU clockspeed? Must be buggy game right?

 

Those are pics taking in split seconds(which is very convenient for you)

Here how it goes

1 The CPU surpasses the thermal threshold at 91c with normal clocks.

2 the cpu gets thermal throttled down to 86c with reduced clocks.

3 repeat

Very simple concept

The clock depends on whats on the screen which I can't figure out from your video. But the average for an 80w 1070MQ should be 1278~1316mhz in witcher 3. The GS65 averaged 1278mhz and the P955ER* averaged in 1291mhz in witcher 3. Which means both are operating normally GPU wise.


* after fixing CCC V2 throttling

 

So what you're saying is that the CPU reaches from 70 - 91 in a split second in witcher 3 so it thermal throttles?

I haven't heard something as ridiculous as this in a long time. Also no, it doesn't depend whats on the screen but what the game utilizes. By your logic taking a screenshot of witcher 3 and looking at it makes the GPU at 99% load and 80W poweru usgae, which again is absolutely ridicolous.

 

The witcher 3 isn't thermal throttling it's power throttling.

Per intel specs an I7 8750H should power throttle.


It averages 3.8ghz with an undervolt, which means the power throttling is negligible.

The GS65 power throttles to 3.5ghz with an undervolt. Which is caused by MSI spaghetti BIOS code.

 

Can you stop spouting absolute nonsense for once? This is getting absolutely insane. The 8750H power throttles due to the EC not allowing having enough power for the system. The 8750H runs at full speed on other notebooks which I have even linked an example of right here.

Also the throttling is clearly massive in BF1, while in witcher 3 and Bf4 its still unacceptable but at least you see it stable for a couple of seconds. This is a clevo vs clevo thread, so I don't talk about the MSI, Gigabyte or Razer, I only care about the clevo.

I have in general a problem with manufacturers putting high end hardware in a thin in light, so don't think that I see the GS 65, Razer or the Gigabyte Aero as perfect machines, they still have to much overpowered CPU in a case that completely lacks the cooling to deal with the heat output, but at least those are not getting hit hard from the EC like the Clevo does.

If you don't get your full 3.9ghz thats one thing, but if your system literally throttles from 2.2ghz to 3.9ghz back and forth, then that is getting unacceptable. It ruins frametimes and makes the experience pretty bad.


Yes the MSI system doesn't reach the 3.9ghz, yes the system thermal throttles, but at least the system is somewhat consistent and doesn't jank itself down to pathethic 2.2ghz because of the EC. So stop trying to tell people the clevo is thermal throttling at 70c because it's getting quite ridicolous, the machine clearly throttles from EC limitationns.


Here is a benchmark of the P955ER doing GPU only benchmark:


This is a 1.2ghz clockspeed because components are being used in the benchmark properly so the 80W limit is limiting the GPU clockspeeds, but more importantly, look at the CPU clockspeeds. This is how the CPU is SUPPOSED to run if it wasn't for the castration of the EC.

 

Intel designed the I7 8750H this way. So the first CB benchmark runs at 3.9ghz with unlimted power (PL2 state) and after 28 sec it gets down to the 45W PL1 state at 3.1ghz.

There IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a 6 core can sustain 3.9ghz with a 45W TDP.

Some manufacturers changed this by raising the PL1 to 60W(RAZER), or allowing unlimited PL2 time (MSI GT).

Other did nothing like clevo, and MSI(GS)

The clevo is performing like intel specs+ thermal throttling in BF1.

You're sacrificing performance by going thin and light. This whole max-Q thing is 10 times worse than a manufacturer not overclocking an i7 8750H above intel specs in a thin a light.

I understand why you want a more consistent clock speed. But this is what you'll get from almost all thin and light laptops apart from razer with LM . Which can never be reccomended considering razer abysmal track record. And the inconsistent frequencies are caused by thermal throttling, power throttling is more consistent.

 

Thats not how powerstates work, unless you assume you go into a cinebench loop, then u're correct.

We agree on that, intel specifies 45W TDP for base clock, that's 2.2ghz btw. MSI GT 75 runs the CPU at 200W TDP, hence stable 3.9ghz, other notebooks do that as well. They even did the 200W bs on my GT 72 with a 6700HQ which is a locked 45W CPU.

No it isn't, it's throttling down the CPU because the GPU and CPU are both working at the same time, hence no headroom no more. If this was a thermal issue, then the CPU would roam around 3.4 - 3.9ghz like all the other notebooks do, but since this is EC related you get everything from 2.2 - 3.9ghz.

Maxq is much less worse since it is somewhat consisstent. Yea the clockspeed is only around 1.2ghzish on extreme loads, but at least its 1.2ghzish and not 800 - 1.6ghz. Nothing is more annoying to a competitive gamer than extreme flucuations in their frametimes, which causes game to be not as fluid as they should be. 60FPS with stable frametimes is much more fluid than unstable 100FPS for instance.

 

That's a myth. Intel guarantees 45W during "normal load" with turbo. AKA not prime95.

20W TDP will get you 2.2ghz

45W TDP will get you 3.2ghz

60W TDP will get you 3.9ghz

That's assuming BF1 level of load

Bob of all trades got 2.9ghz with a 20w TDP in his omen 15 thermal update video in overwatch, so assuming 2.2ghz for BF1 is reasonable.


200w for a 3.9ghz is not happening. Maybe you're talking about a 200w PL1 state which is basically MSI way of allowing the CPU to draw as much power as needed

 

What do you mean myth. Stop making stuff up,

https://ark.intel.com/products/134906/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz
Literally klick on the questionmark right next to TDP


That's what I said. They set the TDP to 200W, doesn't mean the CPU runs at 200W.

You also don't understand how a CPU works either apparently, clockspeed has only very little to do with how much Watts the CPU dissapates. I literally gave you a superposition benchmark where the CPU ran at 3.9 - 4.1ghz on all cores @ 10watts. It's important how the CPU is being utilized by a program, and by intels own specification they only guarrantee 2.2ghz at 45Watts on full load.

At 3.9ghz full load the CPU is well over 100W.

 

My bad for the definition then . But I've never seen a 2.2ghz drowing 45w usually even 20w can get you 3ghz in games.

60w is enough to allow RB 2018 to hold 3.9ghz in games like BF1

I'd blame all of this on intel. Not clevo/gigabyte

 

You do also realize that the CPU is actually throttled down to 35Watts right?
Didn't u ever wonder why on all dennis videos the max Watts u have ever seen was 35W??

That garbage notebook doesn't even allow the CPU to get 45W while gaming.

also was I was explaining it depends on how well a game utlizes the CPU. Games like Metro 2033 will only need 15-20W to let it play on 3.9ghz no problem since it's a well optimized PC game that relies on the GPU, but games like CS:GO, Overwatch, Bf1, Assassins Creed Origins etc. are not happy about the 35W limit set by the EC.

 

If that's true will time to **** on clevo again.

But we need an LM P955 in prime95 to confirm this is the case, not just thermal throttling.

 

No we don't.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Dennismungai1989/videos

We have 5 gaming benchmarks on that notebook. Look for yourself, look at how the CPU is grasping for any type of power while the EC is choking the CPU at 35W.

We don't need LM Prime benchmark for this at all. Lets assume you would get Prime95 LM benchmarked and lets say the notebook runs at 45W, then what? Doesn't help you when your notebook is choking your CPU while gaming because of the EC.

That's why I hate 3Dmark and other synthethic benchmarks out there, they give an extremely poor idea of the real world performance.They are way to GPU or CPU heavy and do not showcase the performance when both are stressed at the same time.

 

His CPU is undervolted + not even close to 100% load(gaming load)+ thermal throttling.

Without these factors the CPU might have the normal 45W TDP instead of the 35W one. We need to rule them out to know for a fact. But I wouldn't be suprised if that's the case.

 

You're wrong.

Look at 6minutes into that Bf4 video, The CPU gets above 35Watts, why? Look at the GPU, it has low usage and doesn't need to work as hard.

What you will find out very soon is everytime the GPU usage (hence more power to the GPU) the Wattage for the CPU is getting nerfed.

Thats why BF1 is so catastrophic, it's more demanding on the GPU, but since the GPU is working harder the CPU is being choked. Thats why BF1 is much more throttling than Bf4 despite having lower temps like I showcased on the screens.

Where is your excuse now?

 

The system has a 150w power draw limit(due to corner cutting 150w PSU). Which means both the CPU+GPU aren't allowed to draw more than 105W~110W at any given time. If the GPU eats ~75W the CPU will be left with 30~35 W. Everyone knows that. The performance hit isn't that severe(it matters alot more if you're overclocking the GPU, as this leaves you with virtually no headroom).

Evoc laptops as far as I can tell don't have that. They have a 180W system limit

That is not the same thing as a 35w TDP for the CPU.

 

This is what your CPU gets when GPU is only barely used at 40% usage etc.


This is what your CPU gets when GPU is working hard, 25W. (yes it's throttling the GPU atm, in witcher you normally have 99% constantly)


Just imagingin a guy who bought this turdbook and tries to stream witcher 3 gameplay with sub 30 Watts at his disposal.