NVIDIA Faulty Graphic Cards & Heat Problem

Hi folks,

I keep seeing and hearing that "all NVIDIA G84 and G86 chips are faulty"
http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=7320

I also recall few days ago reading that some Canadian guy with a Sager NP2092 (Compal JFL92) has been experiencing Major Heating Problems from his Video Card.

So now in my brand spanking new Sager NP2092, I have the "nVidia GeForce Go8600GT with 512MB" GPU ...so this one definitely falls under the problem Chips

Q1: Is nVidia going to put a recall of some sort? I am not even sure if electronic companies do this ... just like Auto industry!?!?!

Q2: Can my Reseller send me a different GPU that has no Heating problem?

Q3: Will Sager Notebooks have a fix for this problem?

Q4: A "purely" opinion question ... should I just return the darn laptop since I am still under my 30 Days money back guarantee phase? And wait it out and get a different laptop.

Oh BTW, I have no way telling if I have heating problem ... since I am not a Gamer for now anyway ... I just bought the darn thing becuase I thought it would help my Video Processing time ... and that was my ONLY motivation.

Thanks,
G! :cry:

 

Q2: Can my Reseller send me a different GPU that has no Heating problem? NO

Q3: Will Sager Notebooks have a fix for this problem? NO

Q4: A "purely" opinion question ... should I just return the darn laptop since I am still under my 30 Days money back guarantee phase? And wait it out and get a different laptop.
If its not broken, sager won't fix it. Sager/clevo notebooks do not have a overheating problem. Simple as that. If you are already asking if you should return it then just return it, because you will be asking about it later...

 

You have a very easy way of telling if you might have a heating problem - how hot does it get?

 

Its not a overheating issue, its heat cycling issue. Cold > Hot > Cold wears out the defective materials probably due to thermal expansion.

 

Hi folks,

Thanks for your responses.

@ Flipfire ... this time I got your name right! Flipfire, thanks for the read ... so the heat cycle is the problem ... btw, I think I saw somewhere else that NVIDIA wants to put out a "Software" fix for the laptops to have the fans run more often. But as your article pointed out ... nonetheless the darn Chip will fall apart due to faulty material.

@ Shyster1 ... well you know the most demanding thing I have been doing with this Sager is full bore Video re-encoding ... programs like HCEncoder ... so CPU is runnign full blast ... but on single core ... I don't think it puts any demand on teh GPU ... so!!!

@ bwhxeon ... OK, so you say Sager/Clevo notebooks have "No" over-heating problems!!! Well, so what are all these Threads and Archives about Sager NP 2090 and Sager 2092 heating problems and concerns about. And if there is no heating problem why would folks on this thread keep asking which "Cooler" they should buy. I have an old DELL Inspiron 8100 laptop ... my cooling system for it is I prop it up with a 1/2" piece of Door Trim wood so the laptop is up a bit and get air circulated under it ... now if you would make a statement to the fact that this DELL does not have a problem with over-heating ... I might go for that ... but we can't unilaterally say "ALL" Sagers are problem free from heat.

G!

 

Theres no point in even explaining it to you, but I'm gonna do it anyway. If your asking about it, its because you are worried about it, which means you are already at the point where you should just return it. No one on here is going to promise you your laptop will not have any problems. You can 1. return it 2. buy an extended warranty or 3. keep it and realize there isn't a problem. If it does turn out to be true and all these graphics cards are defective "which I don't think is true, because why would they still be selling them?" There will be a fix for it.

 

Hi bwhxeon,

THANKS for taking the time and replying ... I guess you are right on my thought pattern ... I am just a worrier ... Oh well, we can't all be perfect.

OK, now I have to run and stop the dog from chewing the heck out of my slippers.

G!

 

If I remember correctly, those machines are always overheat due to internal dust built.

Most people actually asked about that before even receiving their laptops.

 

Yes, they are releasing drivers which makes the fans run aggressively. This is merely just masking the real problem. This will reduce your battery life but it will prolong the gpu's life till your warranty expires.

Sagers/clevos have very good cooling systems to begin with, which reduces the heat cycle fatigue IF they are affected. This is why the failure rates are low.

Nvidia is spending $200 million to aid this issue. That is ALOT of expenditure for repairs. This is why they speculate the G84 and G86 are defective. I mean what else are they gonna fix with $200,000,000?

You dont have to return it, Sager/Clevo will take care of you. The failure rates are too low to be worried about.

EDIT: To come to think of it, ive actually been hit by this issue already.

My go 7200 died out on me no reason. It was perfectly fine the night i shut it down, the next morning i turned it on.. 3 loud beeps indicating a gpu failure. No OC back then and my temps were around 84c

After driving myself nuts trying to fix it for weeks, heres the weird thing.. if i purposely warmed up/overheated the GPU prior to startup, it will work perfectly fine 1 out of 100 tries.

In the end i sent it to warranty to get replaced but at least i was able to recover my stuff

 

How can you say Sager/Clevo will take care of it? If I'm out of warranty, and it fails, what will they do about it?

So far they've neglected to respond to me or they've said that they didn't know about the issue (this was when I contacted Sager). Finally, they said they'd contact Clevo to see if there was a recall.

I want an extended warranty or some guarantee against failure. You can't say Sagers don't have the problem when it is quite explicitly stated the problem is with heat cycling and it can manifest itself in the LONG TERM. After our warranties have expired.

By the way, does Sager let you purchase extended warranties after a certain period of time? My 1-year warranty is almost up. I purchased through XoticPC if that changes anything.

 

@JPRT, there is no such thing as "perfect" in the world. even a 1.3 million worth Ferrari Enzo can have mechanic failure in some ways. IMO manufactures have no responsibility of their products outside of warranty period, except some special issues like batteries explosion. I doubt if your GPU is even involved in this incident.

 

First of all you make no mention of your laptop having heating problems. Second there is no response from nvidia stating which gpu's are defective. No one and I mean no one is going to give you a guarantee against failure, it is just unheard of. I believe you can extend your warranty up to before it expires, but again thats a question for sager.
If you have had your laptop for over a year and its not overheating thats just more proof that there is no problem. They will never guarantee that it wont break because there are two many other components that could cause problems. The thermal pads could go bad the heatsinks could go bad, you could drop it and shake something loose, you could open it up to clean it and ruing something the list goes on and on. If you are so worried about it buy an extended warranty simple as that.
Nvidias fix for this problem so far has been to provide a driver that runs the fans longer and clevo is known for implementing fan controls. So if there will be a fix clevo will most likely use a fan control.

 

Hi folks,

As I have mentioned before I am "New" to the world of Notebooks (Laptops). One of the reasons that I bought Sager NP2092 was the fact I noticed that you can ACCESS most parts from the back of the unit without taking the Keyboard and others stuff apart. BUT, I have never done that before ...

So ... let's say my "NVIDIA GeForce Go 8600GT" bites the dust and dies on me ...

Q1: If this happens while I am running the laptop ... what will happen to my laptop? Will GPU heating up and failure toast other things in my laptop? Alos, will laptop STOP working?

Q2: If the unit fails after I shut it down for the night and then does it's 3 beep tone (like in Flipfire's case) ... Wil the laptop at least come on at all? Will i get start-up screen and other operation? Or is dead since the GPU also runs the monitor?

Q3: Is the GPU "Needed" or "Used" for any type of Video Editing (by Video Editing I mean programs like Nero Recode 2, DVD Shrink, DVD Decrypter, DVD Rebuilder, DVD Flick, PGCedit, ... stuff like that)?

Thanks,
G!

 

i will take a shot at this - although i am no expert but from what i have read and understand i can offer the following:

q1: you will lose the ability to 'see' what you are doing. nothing outside of the gpu should be affected unles the 'heat' issue expands to other parts (doubt that though)
q2: dead. you will get the laptop to operate but not see a darn thing.
q3: yes it is - unless it has an integrated (spelling) gpu.

now lets see if i got close to being correct on any of that...

 

Hi ryujin,

Really appreciate you taking the time and Sahring your reading results with me. +rep for you.

I am going to locate my other post for the Temp Reading of 2092 ... and post my findings ... my GPU is running extremely HOT when my laptop is in Idle mode. 78C/173F ... I don't think this is good. I plan to call Sager and see what is up!!!

May be I am the lucky winner and got myself a problem 2092.

G!:cry:

 

q1: generally if the gpu dies you will get a system crash, so It will hang and you will have to turn it off by holding the power button

q2: even if it is just the gpu that has died, the system may not boot if it detects that the gpu is not there/working

q3: NO the gpu is not used for this sort of operation.

If you have not had any heating problems so far, I would doubt that you will get any. Stop being so paranoid or get an extended warranty.

 

if you are, then i would go buy a lottery ticket....your luck may extend further.....

thx for rep - weeeeeee first one too....
and back at ya cause i just laugh at your avatar all the time....

 

Hi folks,

I am attaching 2 JPGs FYI & feedback ...

One JPG is data captured by CPUID HWMonitor program and my Excel Spreadsheet I gathered the data using Everest Free Edition & Everest Ultimate Edition and reverified by HWMontior and RivaTuner ... so I think I have covered the accuracy base ...

Here is what IMO (a non-Techy) is the Problem ... why my NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT (w 512MB) starts with Temperature readings of 53C when the laptop is tunred on and then builds up all the way to 81C when is IDLE!?!?

BTW, 81C is new HIGH Temp for my GPU in Idle mode(Graphic Processing Unit).

BTW, my Room Ambient Temp is 70F ... so my room is cool enough.

Also, I called "Sager Notebooks" and I spoke to Tech Support ... and the Tech after consulting with their other Gurus (Experts) ... all Sager Tech Support could tell me was "well, don't worry about it, not unless the Temp hits 90C" ...
Well, that is definitely a GREAT ANSWER!

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback from all of you folks.

Thanks,
G!
Tag Words: Sager Laptop, Sager NP 2092, NVIDIA GPU Heating Problems, 8600M GT Heating Problems.

 

What's the max temp on an 8600M GT? I can't seem to find a clear cut answer.
Playing Crysis I hit the low 90's and I have to stop playing for my own peace of mind.

 

Hi dtd,

I am not sure if anyone has the info for "Normal" and "High" Temps for "NVIDIA 8600M GT", but here is a Thread by X2P & Gophn & ... that has High Temps, I guess for GPUs per say ...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=263039

Hope that helps ... but I am still hoping some of the Experts here with more experience will sound in.

G!

 

Thanks Gonwk!

 

Hi dtd,

How long have you had your 2090?

And any luck with getting any more data on 8600M GT?

Thanks,
G!

 

I've had it for a year now this week

Everywhere I look people say something different. There's the bunch that say anything over 80C is exceptionally hot and will damage the card unless you buy this $60 NB cooler, and then there's the bunch that say 90C is too hot, and then there's still another faction who says the clock will automatically downclock itself at 100C.

Before I started monitoring temps, I remember bluescreening once while playing Rise of Nations for 3 hours straight, so I know I can overheat.

So basically I'm kind of meshing in with the crowd that says 90C is a bit too warm, so I'm trying to make my own NB cooler for as cheaply as possible as described here.

 

Hi dtd,

Thanks for your reply.

My problem is not the High Temps while gaming ... because I don't even game ... I bought the 2092 only because I thought if I wanted to game one day I have what I need.

My "NVIDIA 8600M GT" GPU as I turn on my laptop in the morning in the office where my room temperature is at 70C and air conditioned ... the GPU starts at 54C and then starts climbing up to 81C and even 85C the other day in matter of minutes ... now I am not doing anything on the darn unit ... just sitting there and no Application whatsoever is running ... when looking at Windows Task Manager is says IDLE ... so why is this GPU building temps up to those levels.

Hey dtd ... what software are you reading your temps with? Can you read them while your laptop is idle and post back here? You know your Min, Max while your laptop is IDLE.

FYI, I have found HWMonitor 1.10 to be pretty handy software and darn accurate. Here is wheere you get it.

http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

BTW, I am running Windows XP SP2, 32 bit ... I don't know if that matters.

Thanks,
G!

 

NP Gonwk, I'm also interested in all this

Those temps while idling are extremely high... I idle in the low to mid 60's. I have no idea why the gpu would heat up like that. Can you feel the space to the left of the touchpad heating up? If not maybe it's a bad sensor.
I had this crazy thing happen with my processor a while back (maybe it still does it) but if I tilted the entire laptop so the screen was on the desk and the body was vertical, my CPU temps would skyrocket immediately to 105C. I'm not sure why but after a while I was positive they were reading incorrectly. It only happened when I put it on an angle.

I also use HWMonitor awesome little app.
I don't have time at the moment to do a full diagnostic to give you temps on my 2090 (in sig), but from my own memory I can recall a little bit:
(Part/Idle/Sustained Load/Max I've seen)
CPU/55C/85C/89C
GPU/65C/89C/95C
HDD/38C/46C/49C

I might have time tonight to test out the temps to give you more solid data.

I would suggest two things: 1. install the latest Forceware driver (what's your current version?) and 2. Perhaps upgrade to SP3... though I doubt this will do anything.

Oh yeah, what BIOS version do you have? That would have a bit of bearing on the GPU. I'm running 1.13.

 

Hi dtd,

I just used "PC Wizard 2008" and I am running on BIOS 1.16 ... so I guess I am A-OK on that.

I just went and bought a 6" personal fan with 2 speeds from WalMart and Rasied my 2092 off of my Hard Desktop by 1 inch, all the way around and start blowing the fan from the front (touchpad side) at full speed (it has Speed 1=Slow, Speed 2=Faster) and that is how I was able to lower my temps from IDLE 80'sC to around 64C ... but that is not the way I want to handle this thing. Slower Fan speed only maintains the temp at whatever it last was.

The crazy thing is when I run a CPU intensive program which kicks in the internal fan of the laptop my GPU Temps drops to 60sC. But there is no provison to keep the internal fan running constantly ... other I would do that.

The space to the left of my touchpad (I think is where the HDD is) and feels A-OK even when my GPU is reading 85C in IDLE mode.

I am not familiar with Forceware Driver and what it does ... so, I will search it and see what is all about. BTW, using these drivers would it cancel my Warranty!?!?

So, I called and spoke with Tech and they keep insisting that these High Temps are Normal ... even though I continually tell them these Temps are not under LOAD ... they are my IDLE Temps.

So, the only thing to do is send the Unit in for their testing ... may be opened up and see if somethign is loose or whatever ... BUT I seriously doubt they will see anything ...

Also, I am spending too darn much time trying figure out what in the heck is wrong with this unit ... so, I don't even have time to do my Normal work ... which Stinks!

Thanks for your time,
G!

 

Hello again,

I completely forgot about the CPU cooling thing!! Our laptops are kind of stupid in the sense that the fan is geared only for the CPU. If you have a CPU intensive prgm, the fans will kick on just as you noticed. Fan speed is directly related to CPU temp, and GPU temp is kind of left to the whims of the CPU. This is only on the Sager 2090/2092 (Compal IFL90/IFL92) afaik, though I wouldn't be surprised it this went on to other models.

So going on this, perhaps your 2092's CPU--because it is 45nm Penryn instead of 65nm Merom-- is running cooler than mine, so the fans don't go on as often, resulting in a higher idle gpu temp than me. Out of curiosity, what's your CPU model (T8x00 or T9x00)?

This could also mean that even though your IDLE temps are high, they won't increase as much/might even decrease under moderate load. Try out a single-threaded CPU process (get the CPU to 50% load) and see what happens to your temps.

You can open it up yourself and see if anything's loose. Make sure all the heatsinks are firmly (but not overly tight!) in place.

Left of the touchpad is the GPU, upper right corner is the HDD. Flip it over a bit and you'll see what I mean (or take the big cover plate off! always more fun )

Re: ForceWare-- updating this will NOT void your warrantee, it's the driver that nVidia cards run on. It's constantly updated all the time (new releases basically every week) and every so often there's a version that Compal/Sager will redistribute. ex of the version #: 174.19. Idk what the newest one is, but you can check it by going to the nVidia Control Panel (right click on the desktop) and then go to Help>>about or Help>>System Information or something (doing this from memory, bear with me).

As for not being productive, I can completely relate. I get a little mental when something's not right with my laptop

Best of luck!
--DTd00d

 

I only got to test idle temps last night. After moderate load + defrag, they dropped to:
(HW:Min/Typical)
CPU:46C/50C
GPU:58C/60C
HDD:37C/38C

This is the lowest they got under the Balanced power scheme. The typical temp is under light load (surfing the web, etc).

 

I've been having overheating problems with my Sager 2090 ever since I got it, and I'm sure it has to do with the defective nvidia cards. does anyone know where I can find the "emergency drivers" they were supposed to put out?

 

Make sure there isnt any dust, and open up the laptop to see if everything is properly seated.