New Clevos with Max-Q?

Review videos, I've already posted. I wish you were paying attention to the details rather than jumping at defending Max-Q.

I think it would help if vendors were forward informing about the real performance to consumers so there is no doubt about the performance the new owner can expect.

List the Max-Q 1080's as "1070 level performance" and place that "disclaimer" prominently in the advertising, product listings, product custom configurators.

With the deceptive naming used for Max-Q (1080, 1070, 1060) I think vendors need to be proactive in informing the consumers, so there is no chance for confusion.

As media reviews are coming out now, it appears the marketing of the "Max-Q 1080" and "Max-Q 1070" are relying on the consumer to mistake them for the "real" full performance GPU's.

It's going to be tough to support Max-Q laptops when owners come here to get help to figure out why their 1080 laptops aren't performing like 1080 laptops.

You aren't helping by saying what I quoted above. You can't really believe a 90w Max-Q 1080 is going to perform on *anything* within 10% of a desktop 180w+ GPU, do you?

 

There, we said it: https://noteb.com/?content/article.php?/2017/07/05/the-hero-we-deserve/

 

Thank you, that's totally awesome, I hope it helps

There is a bit of confusion I am getting from reading one section:

"...Furthermore, the Max-Q 1080 chipset would perform at around 72-83% of a regular GTX 1080 chipset, according to the quoted Tom’s Hardware article, which means it delivers slightly more performance than a GTX 1070 (laptop version). At this point, this is mostly true for the other Max-Q machines, each Max-Q video card offers lower performance by 10-20% compared to its non-Max-Q variant, with differences coming from each producer’s design choices, rather than hardware options."

I can agree with the 72%-83% portion, as that's in the range I've seen for Max-Q 1080 tests. And, the "delivers slightly more performance than a GTX 1070 (laptop version)" is also correct.

How does it then follow that the Max-Q version performs at 10-20% lower performance??

Wouldn't it be correct to say 17%-28% lower? I understand if you want to round the numbers to say, 20%-30% lower - or even a "marketing friendly" 15%-25%, but how can you justify rounding to 10%-20% lower?

And, while it's great it's in a Blog post, wouldn't it make sense to at least put a short reference to the overall sense of it by putting "performs at 1070 levels", or some such wording to that effect in Max-Q 1080 product listings and in the product configurator? Maybe with a link "for more details see..." to your Blog post?

Just in case that's the only place a potential owner will look when ordering... like me

I can't find your Max-Q laptops in the search... or are they not in stock yet?

Of course the Max-Q 1070 and Max-Q 1060 %'s will likely be different than the Max-Q 1080 laptops numbers - we'll need to wait for actual benchmarks to quantify how much lower performance they are IRL than their numbered namesakes.

 

Loving this detailed and well populated bar chart of the Desktop and Laptop 1080 / 1070 vs. Max-Q 1080 Fire Strike Graphics performance numbers

Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Opinion-Nvidia-s-Max-Q-is-a-maximum-rip-off.232038.0.html

Also loving that the Asus ROG G701VIK-BA049T GTX 1080 laptop is on top with a 35% higher score than the Max-Q 1080 laptop.

It's also nice to see a bunch of 1070's listed as faster than the Max-Q 1080 laptop.

It would be nice to see this chart kept up to date with Max-Q 1070, Max-Q 1060, and additional Max-Q 1080 laptops as they are tested.

 

You are right it's more like 10%-30% . I am considering all Max-Q laptop including GTx 1070 and GTX 1060. I've updated the article to better reflect this.

Don't worry about the listing. all laptops with Max-Q cards will be listed as GTX 1080 Max-Q and the performance rating is calculated at 83% vs 100% as it is for the GTX 1080. Tomorrow will probably have the Zephyrus in the database. I am not adding GTX 1070 Max-Q and GTX 1060 until I get more benchmarks.

 

Pretty obvious why they don't want showing us the numbers. Be the manufacturer who has the most down scaled, aka most crippled graphics of all the ODM's out there, ain't good advertising

Dellienware jumped into this topic aka they bragged that DELL used maxed out TDP for their 1080 vs. what the others would come with. And was forced to push out new vBios with higher power target by very angry buyers who felt they was screwed by AW's boss Azor. This new vBios was finally pushed out 4-5 months after his dirty and wrong statement. Very obviously why manufacturers don't want jump into this mess

 

All could be solved with better communication regarding the products on all sides. Proper labeling and ad materials would be a great first step.

 

Yeah, could be. But I'm afraid in the end all ODM's will cooperate and put equal TDP specs although some of their laptop models will have or use better cooling than others. If all ODM's cooperate and pushed out the graphics specs... Aka, eg had same TDP as DELLIENWARE's first gimped 1080 graphics... I'm sure AW's ceo Azor wouldn't put out new vBios with higher power spec. This is like the choice between plague and cholera. Cooperation is not uncommon. Although it is not in print. Always at the disadvantage for the customers who buy their products. Always!!

 

What I'd really like to see is every mfg have a clear upgrade chart or something on their site, showing where you can go from the 1070, like "Want this performance in a smaller package? Check out this 1080 MQ model. Do you want more performance instead? Here's a full 1080 system." Both technologies should be able to coexist, but as someone else mentioned, having to have support techs explain after the fact why someone who wasn't informed about 1080MQ is not getting 1080 performance from a machine should not be something that has to happen.

 

Great thread guys, That Origin video is exactly why I distrust every sales pitch I see.

 

If you re-read the text carefully it states the 1080MQ is 72-83% of the regular 1080 and that OTHER Max-Q laptops are 10-20% slower. This could either refer to 1070MQ and 1060MQ having a lesser performance difference to their regular versions (likely, given the much smaller drops in TDP) or that the Zephyrus is a uniquely slower machine. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit of both.

 

the new EVOC P950HR available for pre-order has 1070MQ+120hz+7700hq for 1700 usd. no g-sync tho.

however i got a new deal from Woodzstack 7700k + 1070 tornado f5 for a little higher price. not sure if i should go bulky, heavy and god damn nice specs or slim, light with lower specs

 

You could try the "heavy" and see what it's like, and if it works for you you've got a much more capable DTR / gaming laptop.

Or, get both, and send back the one you don't want to keep.

If you have any need for desktop level CPU power, the F5 has it

Here's the Owners thread for the F5 and other MSI 16L13 brands:

*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

 

@D2 Ultima, excellent, excellent article. This shall get cross-posted to Reddit as soon as the rest of America wakes up in five or so hours. It is a pain in the neck to live in a time zone ahead of three quarters the world population, which unfortunately make up 99% of all Internet users.

 

If you clicked on it a short while ago then you haven't seen my article yet

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

You should check out Digital Foundrys review. They even said they don't think they should call it a 1080 or 1070.. maybe the 1080=1075 or something in those lines.
If they priced them accordingly and marketed them truthfully; I might have considered, but I am happy with my fat machine.

 

Can you link it please or direct me to the page I can find it.

 

Me and my friend will buy two laptops. one bulky and heavy (Tornado f5) and a lighter one with 7700hq and 1070 (still don't know it). he doesn't have a problem with bigger or smaller so i'll try both. sadly the lighter one will not be a max-q maybe mx5r3 am not sure.

 

It's been edited, and I will be re-working it. When it is up properly I can come back and talk about it here.

 

Here's the comparison: https://noteb.com/?model/comp.php?&conf0=2621098752785070042&conf1=6238827174494881261

 

Wow, the weight is a lot closer than you'd think, 4.96lb vs 5.07lb

It looks like on that site the GL502VS price is bumped up quite a bit over what we see here in the USA, $1997 min there vs $1699 in the US.

Maximum Battery life of the GL502VS is a little better: 3.2hr vs 2.6hr

That's a nice list of feature comparisons on that site, now you just need a nice sale to get the price down to US levels

 

Actually the price is not that far off, the $1700 is the 250GB version of the GL502VS, the 512 GB version , the same amount the Zephyrus costs about $1850-$1900. But I haven't updated Asus prices in a while, so that's why they are so far off. They are actually currently being updated, should be good by Monday.

 

You must be looking at the wrong prices somewhere, the comparison chart you linked shows the Zephyrus pricing is $2704 - $2772, which is about the same as the US $2699, about $1000 more than the GL502VS.

 

I meant, the Zephyrus comes with a 512 GB Pcie M.2 SSD, the GL502VS with the same SSD comes at about $1900 or a bit more: http://www.xoticpc.com/asus-gl502vs-ds71.html?startcustomization=1

 

Ahhh... packing on the options

Bargain hunting people want to get their laptop from a boutique vendor stripped down, not with expensive storage or RAM, so the $1699 model would be fine for me, thank you.

If you're into blowing cash unnecessarily, like with overpriced skinny laptops, then an expensive SSD (NVMe) is quite apropos.

For us practical guys, M.2 SATA's at 50% of the cost of an NVMe will do just fine. 2x the storage for the same $ is cool.

 

It looks like the cool and quiet features from Max-Q are now available in Beta for all Pascal GPU laptops. Has anyone tried it?

Nvidia has shipped Whisper Mode (for all Pascal GPU's) with their new drivers, maybe the AW will respond well to that tuning, and other tuning, to bring you the quiet mode like the Zephyrus (probably run a lot cooler too).

GeForce Experience changelog for 3.7.0 introduces Whisper Mode for 10-series Notebooks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/6i6z9t/geforce_experience_changelog_for_370_introduces/
https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/whispermode/supported-gpus

NVIDIA WhisperMode Technology

"NVIDIA also introduced WhisperMode technology, which makes laptops run much quieter while gaming. WhisperMode intelligently paces the game's frame rate while simultaneously configuring the graphics settings for optimal power efficiency. This reduces the overall acoustic level for gaming laptops. Completely user adjustable and available for all Pascal GPU-based laptops, WhisperMode will be available soon through a GeForce Experience software update."

So any full power Pascal GPU laptop can opt to use the tuning of the WhisperMode to reduce noise when needed, reducing temps at the same time. It's supposed to reduce game settings, limit FPS, and other tuning tricks to accomplish this, just like the Max-Q laptops.

 

without the compromise of TDP? Since the 1080MQ is gimped already via power. I think this whisper mode will undervolt/clock the "real" 1080, but how will that prevent boost 3.0 from overclocking? i used the AF curve to keep my temps down with a stable clock and boost 3.0 keeps raising the bar to a degree.

 

So are you talking about manual settings, or using the Beta GFE with WhisperMode?

 

Configured weight of the Gl502 is 5.73 pounds.

 

Is that with the power supply?

What is the "configured" weight + Power Supply with the GX501VI Zephyus?

Comparisons need to be done with the same setup, in the one I linked I assume Asus in fact did that.

@Meaker@Sager as long as you dipped your toes in, please come up the rest of the data for that fair comparison.

Asus' weigh-in methodology for both laptops would be the same, so it is a fair comparison, with their published weights.

GX501 4.96lb vs GL502 5.07lb = 0.11lb difference, which is a very small 1.76oz difference. Thanks for the comparison data @Blacky

 

I thought GFE was a major component of the whole WhisperMode eco-system for managing thermal load? It adjusts game performance settings and manages a FPS limiter.

Although enabling WhisperMode with Nvidia Inspector might get the fan / temp profile enabled, the GFE needs to be installed to manage the games and load to keep the temps down, right?

NVIDIA Inspector 1.9.7.8

NVIDIA Profile Inspector 2.1.3.9

GeForce Experience changelog for 3.7.0 introduces Whisper Mode for 10-series Notebooks.

GFE 3.7.0.68.zip <= Beta version with WhisperMode

GFE 3.7.0.81.exe <= current version from Nvidia, WhisperMode status unknown

GFE Latest Download <= generic download area for GFE, WhisperMode status unknown

If you find a version newer than 3.7.0.68 with WhisperMode, please post it's link and your experience with it.

Versions updated 7/8/17

NBR Thread - nVIDIA Whisper Mode

 

I'm going off weighed results on notebookcheck.

 

I was referring to or meant, was how would the whisper mode work with my real 1080 vs the gimped 1080mq. for example i undervolted mine using AF via the curve, It holds at 70c(75c depending on GPU boost 3.0). It seems i can achieve the same temps as the MQ, but retain better performance. If only we could disable GPU boost 3.0 we would be in a better place. I hope I made sense. I was half awake when I wrote earlier.

 

Not sure myself, as the WhisperMode just came out for other GPU's, and it's a Beta GFE, so I guess we're all at ground zero

 

So, what's the weight of the GX501 for comparison? You can't just drop 1 adjusted weight, we need both for comparison

And, links for both too please.

 

You can quite easily google the results yourself as I listed my source, I did not correct your error on other information because it was not contradicted.

 

I'm googling stuff and correcting you all the time, but at least I provide complete information and links. You didn't even provide a link to support your "adjusted" weight for the GL502, just a name, not even the full name.

If you aren't willing to provide complete information, then please don't bother in the first place, it's a waste of time for me creating work I now have to follow up on.

You're not helping.

 

So if I quote a single source for a single figure you want me to link it because you think I will make it up to serve my own argument?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Zephyrus-GX501-Laptop-Review.230546.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Strix-GL502VS-Notebook-Review.171567.0.html

The power supply weights are listed there too so .22 pounds difference there to add onto the GX since it uses a 230W brick vs the 180 of the GS series.

so 2.92kg vs 3.17kg total difference so an 8% total reduction in weight of the whole package.

But with an attitude like that I will leave you to it from here on because you would rather ignore good advice and think I am being paid to defend a competitor exclusive (for now) product.

 

Full information:

According to notebookcheck.com the GL502 is 12.34 oz's heavier + PSU 3.52 oz's heavier = 15.86 oz heavier, just shy of 1lb. Adding in the GX501 adapters and wrist rest brings the difference down to nothing.

GX501 - Weight 2.25 kg ( = 79.37 oz / 4.96 pounds), Power Supply: 670 g ( = 23.63 oz / 1.48 pounds)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Zephyrus-GX501-Laptop-Review.230546.0.html

GL502 - Weight 2.6 kg ( = 91.71 oz / 5.73 pounds), Power Supply: 570 g ( = 20.11 oz / 1.26 pounds)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Strix-GL502VS-Notebook-Review.171567.0.html

 

Just do a complete job if you are going to make any effort at all, otherwise you're just creating work for others.

And, think of your reader before coming up with odd results, how is someone supposed to use your answer?

Look at mine for comparison. I provide the source data, the link, and the answer people are looking for, how much is the weight increase to carry one over the other.

 

I would not have to get involved if you posted properly researched and correct information in the first place, yet somehow I am the bad person for pointing that out.

 

I quoted the source, both from the same place, and provided the link to the comparison and both weights. @Blacky was also referenced, if he wants to speak up as to where they got the numbers they posted.

They were comparable numbers, and who is to say which is correct?

You gave 1 weight, and no link to the source data, so no useful comparison could be made.

Thanks for following though with the rest of the info

 

We don't sell Asus machines but I keep my ear to the ground over reddit and know the head of ROG UK and have so have verified with reviewers, users and Asus themselves.

I don't take these numbers lightly.

 

Has anyone tried WhisperMode yet?

NVIDIA Inspector 1.9.7.8

NVIDIA Profile Inspector 2.1.3.9

GeForce Experience changelog for 3.7.0 introduces Whisper Mode for 10-series Notebooks.

GFE 3.7.0.68.zip <= Beta version with WhisperMode

GFE 3.7.0.81.exe <= current version from Nvidia, WhisperMode status unknown

GFE Latest Download <= generic download area for GFE, WhisperMode status unknown

If you find a version newer than 3.7.0.68 with WhisperMode, please post it's link and your experience with it.

Versions updated 7/8/17

NBR Thread - nVIDIA Whisper Mode

 

So... does this whisper mode do anything other than implement lower visual quality settings in order to have the GPU only partly utilised under a frame cap?
/cynic

 

Why ask, when you can try it for yourself?

 

I assume I would have to install GFE to try this? I don't use GFE maybe that's why I haven't heard of it, the next time I get some spare time I could try this out in the name of science.

 

Yes, for Science!

I also forego GFE, and don't have Pascal GPU's to test

Would love to find out if the WhisperMode will make full performance GPU laptops match Max-Q noise output - at higher performance and lower temps - due to being in larger frames with better cooling.

Thank you!

 

The GL502VS total weight with PSU given by XoticPC is 7.4lbs

Spoiler: Video - 03:30

The GX501VI total weight with PSU / assessories given by GenTechPC is 7.375lbs.

Spoiler: Video - 01:17

So the carry weight is essentially the same

 

If you intend to setup at a new base then sure but day to day I would not expect people to carry the wrist rest and the net adapter with them.

If you need to type a lot on the go this is obviously not the machine for you due to that keyboard position.

Let's also see what other people come up with designs and cost wise. Asus are just one option who have their own balance they like to hit, I don't agree with Asus on all their design choices with this machine for instance.