New batch of Clevo notebooks for 2015-2016 wishes/expectations?

Even with parts upgradable some people still like to replace laptops instead of upgrading constantly themselves so I dont think it would hinder the sales as much as most people believe.

 

It's not only "upgrading" that is nice about having upgradeability. If something should fail (e.g. CPU), replacing a single part is better than having to replace the entire laptop (or motherboard costing thousands). That's why I think upgradeability is vital for gaming laptops, especially if they cost $2000+.

So long as they offer desktop processors, I am fairly certain they'll offer an upgradeable GPU as well. Larger amounts of VRAM is also nice to have.

 

This!

GPUs are most prone to failure in gaming laptops, having them replaceable is critical IMO.

 

If you are being charged thousands for a new motherboard I would walk away

 

If the new motherboard contains a $700 GPU and a $300 CPU, I'm pretty sure you're not getting it for $200-400

 

Yes but it's not going to cost multiple thousands of dollars.

 

Computer shops could benefit from it thought. CPUs are still replaceable, you just need to de-solder the old one and solder the new one. For GPUs is more tricky.

 

The only upgrade-able series from here on onward will be their 15"/17" LGA desktop chip models (single & SLI MXM GPU), as it looks right now Intel will offer mobile Skylake chips only in BGA form.

So come the holidays Clevo may very well offer the only Notebooks on the market, which allow for both CPU & GPU to be upgraded.

 

Prema, did you mean Christmas Holidays?) So we might see the first P750ZM/P770ZM successor in December the earliest?

 

No, no but everything Notebook LGA will be EOL by then.
New & refreshed models all come in the time-frame August-October (depending on model) alongside Intels new chips.

 

This is blasphemy, this is madness! On the other hand, few people upgraded their notebook CPUs. It's just that the manufacturing process will be slightly more complicated.
Does anyone speculate that this will increase Intel's CPU sales, since most notebook manufacturers will not bother to salvage the CPU from the board when they have a warranty claim ?

 

@Prema,

Hope you're right, and I'm betting you are. You know your stuff.

I'll be purchasing the LGA "desktop models" from here on out, if so. They are absolutely great. Can't wait until Pascal hits!

 

As it seems it's (top tier) Clevo or soldered from now on.

Actually with the GPUs, most of the time at least, it's the very same thing - de-solder the old and solder the new chip. Good luck finding a top tier chip though, even if you do find, it would be of questionable quality. Then there are those cases where something is generally effed, so chip swap wont do.

 

solder and de-solder is not happening in us, in china, probably.

 

Im waiting to see what the broadwell/skylake mobile cpu's will be like. Even if all of them are soldiered as long as the gpu is still mxm then it may not deter me. I hardly ever had issues with cpu's and would make sure I get the best available cpu option for my budget. Gpu's on the other hand have a much shorter lifespan so unless the new books have express card slots or tb2/3 I will have to get the lga zm style models.

 

Third take - tried to not get lengthy, so here it is again - you'll be surprised how many places repair stuff instead of throwing them away. This rare thing in from of earth elements is not there for better sounding.

 

Yes please bring 17" 3k high gamut low refresh panels with 990m SLI.

 

You mean low response time, high refresh rate?

 

Prema, do you think there's a chance to see refreshed hi-end NV GPU's by that time frame? Or it's pure speculation about 990M etc?)

 

Spoiler

 

Where do you get such pictures from? hehe)

Then P880ZM 18.4" with 6700k + 990M sli + SM 951 nvme sounds about right for autumn refresh!

Only thing that bothers me is that there doesn't seem to be any info about DDR4 mobile memory. I mean Skylake supports both DDR3 and DDR4 but it's a little dumm to release a laptop with DDR3 on board this fall and then make a refresh in 3-6 months with DDR4.

 

So you do believe in the Loch-Ness Monster?!

 

Yeah that.

 

Sure) The aliens took it out from the lake as soon as better equipped cameras were developed, so people couldn't make a proper shots in time. A damn animal was just a little shy to pose.

P. S. Kidding...

If there're no better mobile GPUs until pascal, then there's no need to upgrade to Skylake this early. No benefits for the upcoming game titles.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

I think that will depend if people opt for the ddr3 or ddr4 ram sticks. Most likely the motherboard itself is backwards compatible so companies will provide the new ddr4 option later on after that releases.

I like the idea of the sli zm but the power voltage on that thing is going to be NUTZZZ !!! The power bill wont be fun to pay yearly for that yikes ....LOL.


unless you don't pay utility bills that is .....

 

Meh, this is more like it.

Spoiler

 

LOL!!!

You forgot to give him an Elvis look and title it 'Lake on Mars'!

 

You know prema and Ht, those things can very well be real and in some cases were real in the past. There are several accounts of those around the world but now science has put fancy names and different classifications to them. Ol nessie for example could have been a remnant of a dragon from ancient time. Of course now we call them dinosaurs but again I feel its the same type of creature with a different name. I would love to get into that more but that's a "whole-nother thread". At this point anything is possible... anyway I know I'm off topic and all but sometimes it all helps ...

 

Ok. So with solder CPUs in gaming notebooks, Intel is going to milk us right?
Many of us bought less expensive CPUs now and upgraded 2 years later to a more powerful version to keep up with processing needs. Now we have to open the wallet... With GPUs being upgradable what do you think will happen? Money will go to the CPU because the GPU can always be upgraded down the line. This sucks!

 

I believe the intent was to upgrade the existing models which does mean they wont go backwards if using a new eDP standard.

 

As Reddit would say:

*woosh*

 

Just putting it out there pal lol

If those rumors are true and all the cpu's are bga then the clevo zm machines are the only true upgradable books however, even with the zm models we're actually still restricted to the lga 1150 socket meaning all newer chips and beyond won't be compatible. Even the Gpu is uncertain realistically I am doubtful the mxm 3b will work with pascal especially with the new nvlink thats replacing the pcie we have been used to over the years. Meaning 2016 will require new everything...I hope I'm wrong but I rather think this way rather than get my hopes up and be let down because at the moment both the cpu and gpu companies are going for major profit gain.

The next Clevo reveals for this year and going into next year are going to set the precedent in terms of determining what options users who like to tweak and customize machines will have for the next gen of computing. Intel, Nvidia and Amd will all play a key role in determining the fate of true user customization. Even desktop users are on edge since new boards will be a requirement for skylake and beyond.

I'm already used to the old school way of buying laptops but you clevo guys that were used to upgrading and swapping out parts are going to have it rough not having those options it seems. We just have to wait it out and see what kind of options will be presented and Im pretty sure whatever gets found will be reported on the forums asap.

 

It will be interesting to see what controls the BGA chips actually allow for tweaking.

It's not really the connection but the ability to tweak that was more important.

 

I don't think NV-link will pick up in notebooks. It will mean motherboards will become GPU specific for every notebook. It will be like CUDA.

Edit: Nevermind, only IBM Power Servers will support NVlink at first. We won't see it in notebook and desktops. So, we will still see MXM cards. PCI 4.0 is coming in late 2016, which means MXM 4.0 will come some time in 2017. So notebooks in late 2017 - 2018 will get MXM 4.0 . GPU wise, the upgrade path doesn't seem hindered.

 

If anything we may get a high bandwidth cable between GPUs.

 

Hope may come with Cannonlake. This article mentions the Cannonlake MQ will launch Q3 2016: http://wccftech.com/intel-processor...ee-arrives-q3-2016-skylake-muy-chips-q4-2015/
If so, it just makes me think the heat on Skylake may be similar to Broadwell, basically screwing choice until then. So if people can wait until then (back to school sales), then there may be an upgrade path.

As this is a wish thread, who would want to see an AMD offering from clevo using a Zen processor and arctic island mobile GPU. This could better create a cohesive system utilizing HSA, hUMA (both developed originally in 2011-12 time frame by AMD), a processor that now utilizes SMT (HT is what intel calls it), and, hopefully, the GPU having HBM. This, in conjunction with openCL 2.0 and DirectX12 could provide an extremely beneficial gaming machine. There would be a lot of hurdles (such as heat dissipation), but, in theory, it could shape up for a better ecosystem than Nvidia Pascal and Intel Skylake. Thoughts?

 

I would love to see some AMD love as well. Only MSi was brave enough to put AMD CPU and GPU in a laptop. Of course it wasn't benchmarking monster, but the price was more than right. Mantle was a bit late, if it was matched release, the systems could've been better sellers. Anyway, I hope for second take, now that DX12 is around the corner.

 

Also, the industry is finally going to support HSA. OpenCL, obviously supports it, but java will use compiler until native in a couple years. Same with C++ AMP, Fortran and others to start. But, since the compilers will be available at release, it could aid performance if the industry adopts it (which it may since ARM also uses HSA). Now, with that said, the CPU performance will likely be competitive with Intel for a change, 4K, which AMD is somewhat competitive with, will be more widespread in laptops, etc. could give a potentially high end gaming machine utilizing an amd desktop 95W tdp chip done in a similar manner to the zm series. Amd could optimize this environment more than an Intel/Nvidia rig IFF amd is able to implement HBM2 in arctic island mobile gpu and it pulls off equal or better performance. A LOT OF IFs!!!

Edit: This is assuming that the HSA compiler for the iGPU will also optimize for AMD's hUMA, thereby allowing the benefits to transfer outside of AMD's APU line.

 

If AMD had just given them an unlocked black edition for the GX60 it would have helped a lot.

 

Removed caps lock from thread title.

 

Too many ifs here... Let's wait and see.. It's seems nowadays AMD overpromises and underlivers... The new 300 series which should be out soon will be true test of this..

 

I disagree with that being the test. Zen will be the test. Arctic island is a similar die shrink. Although I believe the flagship 300 will rock, the rest will make people doubt. As for the 40% gains that is easy to achieve. Imagine the jump to ht with Intel. You'll see 20% by going to that. Some people say Samsung's 14nm doesn't compare to Intel's. I'd argue it will have similar performance if their current transistor tech is as developed as what they've done in other market areas. This gives 20% as two die shrinks. Going off the numbers of the current 8 core cpus they have out, using the 1.4 multiplier puts it at above the 4960X. Granted, that is IB, but it is a huge jump (faster than the 4790k and the leaked 6700k). So long as the heat is manageable, and prices aren't that much greater, you'd have a mainstream amd processor beating Intel's consumer processor (not extreme edition) at about $80-100 less. This, in conjunction with the better multithreading of directx 12 primes the field. Now, there will always be the argument that same hardware should be compared, but same price point, AMD would stand to gain a lot!!! An 8 core Intel, on the 40% projection, will still beat AMD, but cost between $560 and $1200 to do so. That, with amd having fewer year over year socket revisions, would allow for an upgrade path as well.

Now, as for the 300 series, I believe it's going to decimate titan x, which is why Nvidia is holding back it's Ti to try and steal it back. As this is two to three weeks out (computex or E3) and doesn't incorporate anything except gen 1 HBM (gen 2 and 16nm for both red and green next year), only so much will be garnered from it. AMD has had tech on a shelf for 3-4 years now that programmers have not taken advantage of. Only this year and beyond are they writing code to utilize their tech, and only because Nvidia and Intel are only now utilizing similar standards. Now here is where I give the if, if they have been refining these unused techs and architecture over this time, in the next 18 months, amd will surprise people. Btw, the SMT (HT) is known to give 20% with variance. Except for Intel screwing up the jump to 14nm, all previous node shrinks give approximately 10%, and here is two. Even at 30%, at price point on cpu, they'd win. Also, this time Intel won't have the crap compiler to give anything but Intel a worse compiled instruction set!

Edit: sorry for the tone. I didn't edit after writing. I do mean it quite civilly. Please don't see it as an attack!

Edit 2: this is assuming the 8 core is the lower tdp promised. Amd had said that consumer models will be 4 and 2 core. If they are doing the 40% on a quad core over their 8 core, I'd be more dubious on the claims and would have a more reserved stance (which may be the case). Time will tell. Also, whether pure 4k is compared on gpu amd will win. Unsure on 1080 standard.

Edit 3:
Meanwhile, AMD has pulled back on this years releases due to 20nm wafers becoming scarce and to focus the money on major releases for next year. We have to remember that Lisa Su only took the reigns at the end of 2014. Since then, she has fired top people at the company and hired talent from across the industry. She pulled projects and tech off of the shelves to be included in new products (which take time to design, incorporate, and produce). She then announced the shift from focusing on low end APUs to maintaining (and trying to gain more) custom APUs, while trying to reclaim a space in the high end (and mid-range) computing. This is why a lot of previous products got scuttled. She has poured a lot of R&D directly into next years releases, which is why this year is lackluster.

As for serendipity, IBM sold their patents to GloFo. This gave many useful techs up for AMD to use as a strategic partner and lured Samsung into giving a cross license on its more developed 14nm node (which will be used in Zen). Some of this, I wouldn't doubt, has found its way into redesigning the GPUs which could explain the claims on heat reduction better than just a redesign (same goes for the guidance on a 95W TDP Zen processor since we all know how hot the 9000 series 8 cores were). To, in mid-design, switch from the 14nm GloFo transistor to Samsung transistor would have taken a chunk of cash. Considering they are reporting less R&D expenditures than Intel, many investors are scared that they are blowing smoke, but many of the changes were either their old tech or already developed by IBM or Samsung. This should give great hope on the integration of these products, although it leaves to question whether the 14nm cross-license included Samsung's 10nm. The reason this is important is GloFo was developing the 14nm to scale directly to 10nm (just like TSMC and Samsung). If they do not have the rights to 10nm, there would have to be a larger redesign for Zen+ to switch back to GloFo's 10nm.

Because of the above, in conjunction with SMT regularly (across the industry) providing a 20% gain and each die shrink regularly giving 10% (except for Intel's jump to 14nm), AMD's claim of 40% seems plausible on the surface. This also suggests that this year's mobile offerings (like AMD's majority of offerings this year) will be ****e. For that reason, I'm not expecting anything amazing out of them except for the desktop flagship (which will become king!).

 

I think that's why AliExpress was (kinda) flooded with ES CPUs at one point. I always said that aside from the price, the overclock is the very next thing one considers when gets AMD. Also given how low the TDP was (35W), overclock was no brainer, and most people got quite a lot out of them. Sadly we never got an official unlocked CPU, and dual fans.

 

This makes no sense. GM200 on Titan X is full GM200... they can't make a "Titan X Ti" and make it better. The only thing they could do is increase its clockspeed, and since Maxwell GPUs are exceedingly hungry under load and/or when OC'd, and the Titan X is limited to 300W, nVidia basically sealed their own fate there.

*IF* the R9 390X brings the pain and takes the crown and costs $700 or less, even the 980Ti or 985Ti or whatever as a 6GB variant of the Titan X will not bring nVidia back so easily against a stronger single GPU config with 8GB of HBM at the same price.

 

I wrote about a couple things I am looking forward to, which probably belong in this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...o-the-new-batcave.776183/page-2#post-10007640

 

I'm thinking they have a 990 or a dual gpu card waiting in the wings to try to one up. I should have said that instead of Ti, I do apologize and you are correct.

 

Dual cards are pointless... single card power is all you can brag about. Otherwise I can toss in two R9 390X cards and beat that "990" or whatever. Also, if you've not checked my SLI guide in the last two months, you should give it a read again and see why SLI is getting worse lately.

 

Will do!

 

Ah no worries... That was very informative and I can see your logic behind it.. I used to love AMD but they've really let us down in the last 2 years... I will go back to AMD if the R9 390MX or 395MX can beat a 980M or come close to it... NVIDIA had let me down in the past and the crap they have pulled in the last 2 drivers and previous months has made me regret this purchase and want to move back to AMD... AMD never pulled such stunts..