New to Sager - will this NP8170-S1 work for me?

Hi I am new to Sager, I honestly hadn't heard of them before joining this forum. I have spec'd out a unit that seems like a good match for me. The thing is I am not a gamer but need to do a lot of video rendering and transposing. Very CPU intensive stuff and GPU intensive depending on the program.
I have a few questions.
Sager offers a warranty on dead pixels for 30 days. Does this mean they tend to have problems with their screens? I have a 7 year old Dell and I don't have any dead pixels and my resolution is 1920x1200.
If Sager has a 1 year warranty does that mean the screen isn't covered?
Also I would lke to know what their tech support is like. Most companies tech support is truly awful.
Here are the specs, Again this is for editing video more than games but I'll also use it to watch movies and other things.

Also since I am unfamiliar with Sager how would they compare to Alienware?
Thanks

17.3” Full HD 16:9 Wide screen (1920x1080) LED-Backlit Display with Super Clear Glare Type screen
nVIDIA GeForce GTX 485M 256bit w/2.0GB GDDR5
Intel® Core™ i7-2630QM (2.0~2.9GHz, 45W) w/6M L3 Cache
IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
12GB (3x4GB SODIMMS) DDR3/1333 Dual Channel Memory
120GB Intel® X25-M SATA Solid-State Drive
750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive (16MB Cache Buffer)
6x Blu-Ray Burner/Reader/8x Super Multi Combo Drive
Built-in Intel® Centrino® Ultimate-N 6300 Wireless Card
Windows 7 Professional - (64-Bit installed - 64 and 32-bit CD included)

 

1. about dead pixel, actually it varies, in my order i dont have a 30 day dead pixel guarantee, but when my unit arrives until now i don't see any dead pixel.
2. nope i think the dead pixel guarantee is seperate like the one we mentioned the 30 day warranty.
3. i'm not sure, in my status i have no RMA when i owned a sager.

Sager, to put it at the best description, external superficiality is simple compared to the flashy and backlit alienwere, but under the hood you get what you paid for.

and with that purchase of your the cpu and gpu are beasts. you are getting the best imo. if the flashy things in the laptop doesn't matter to you, then go for sager, if it matters and you have the buck, then you can try alienware.

 

Thanks for the advice. To be honest my wife looked at an Alienware M11 at Staples and she was amused by the design. I won't use her words but this coming from a woman who decorates for Christmas in October and can't possibly have enough lights, ornaments and bling for Christmas, thought the Alienware was too much. :laugh:
I think it looks cool but I honestly don't want to compete with all my wife's Christmas stuff 365 days of the year.
I like simple and easy to use keyboard layouts and lots of Power to get things done. The only thing I'd do more if I had the $$$$ is to max out the CPU and RAM.

I still don't understand their warranties but I'll have to call up a few companies on Monday and get prices. Probably be ordering one by Tuesday if I can get everything sorted out by then.
Too bad it's so long to get one.

How is their tech support any idea?

 

the keyboard is the chicklet type. and regarding their support i have a friend back home and he also has sager, he had an RMA but his reseller and sager complied easily, and the issue is only minimal which is the battery reset, but for him the hardware was superb and he received the laptop in perfect condition.

again, the tech support varies where you want to buy it, whether clevo, sager, eurocom, malibal, xoticpc etc. so you can visit their sites and inquire.

but then, there's also a backlit keyboard aside alienware. Asus g73 series has good lighting and have good gpus and cpus (namely i7920xm and nvidia gtx 460m). but those are nothing compared to your Huron River processor and beastly gtx 485m.

 

this is what ill say , once youve tried a sager you may well not want to use any other brand after, imho of course.

its best to order from a reseller like xoticpc.com or malibal.com. tech support of resellers are usually much better.

i use my laptop for both business and entertainment so i cant be caught with something like an AW doing board meetings or doing an sde for an event.

 

Well I was looking at PowerNotebooks.com they have a discount for cash and their menu is easy to navigate. I would want to buy from a reputable reseller and someone who is going to stand behind their product.
I did look at xoticpc and they were a bit more money for what looked like the same build. Some times deals can be made that cinch the sale.
I'll be calling a few companies on Monday. But not eurocom, I've read too many bad things about them.
It would be nice if the Sager had a backlit keyboard but that's not a dealbreaker for me.
The Sandy Bridges is a must for me. I buy a laptop every 6 years or so and I will always buy again from people who treat me right.
I figure I'm futureproof for a while with this setup, at least for a while.

Is it better to buy direct from Sager or use a reseller, any suggestions as to which one is better and why?

 

I certainly hope it's that good. I found a good price on Power Notebooks.com but I don't see them mentioned in this forum. I'll check out malibal.com, I already tried xoticpc.com Good tech support is very important to me.

 

First you can't order directly from Sager, they don't sell directly to customers, they sell to companies (and Sager themselves are provided by Clevo which is the company that actually makes these laptops).

Second, I'm sure you made a mistake when configuring on Xoticpc, because usually for the same specs all Clevo resellers offer the same prices.
So what I think you should be looking at is the company that offers you the best customer service since money won't be tie-breaker, and in that department you should go with either Xoticpc or Malibal, they both have a great customer service.
Personaly I'd go for Malibal just because instead of Sager on the back of the laptop (which you will find if you order from Xoticpc) you'll find Malibal (and for some reason i hate having Sager on my laptop I much prefer having Malibal).
Oh and just so you know the Sager 8170 is a renamed Clevo P170, that's its original name (Malibal have it under the name Satori P170).

Check it out on Malibal's website:
Satori P170HM: System Overview - MALIBAL

 

Ok that was very enlightening. Thanks. I did configure the Satori 170HM exactly the same way and it was like $34 more and I do mean exaxctly the same. No idea about shipping costs so that isn't a factor in the price.
Why would you care if it says Sager or Malibal?
Customer service and tech support are very important to me so I'll check out both companies.
I still can't figure out if I should stick with the standard warranty or go with the 3 year which puts me over my limit by a lot.
Thanks again for your help.

 

Uhhh, pretty sure you can buy from Sager, here. Nobody buys from them however since the resellers have slightly lower prices, and more custom options. When you need to repair your laptop, you use that website to get the contact info for Sager.

As for the dead pixel policy/warranty thing, the general consensus is that it's not worth it. You might be able to use a program to fix the stuck pixel. And i'm pretty sure they have a policy that if there's a dead/stuck pixel in the middle (when you divide the screen up into 9 equal rectangles) you can get your screen replaced for free. Also they have a 100% refund with their return policy, but you eat the cost of shipping it back to them.

 

Oh never mind the Sager/Malibal thing, it's a matter of taste that's all, I just prefer to see Malibal on the back of my laptop rather than Sager.

As for the price, it just happens that for the configuration you chose Malibal is 34 dollars more expensive, but with another combination of options it could well be less expensive, but all in all they usually round up to almost the same price. Plus, 34 dollars really isn't much, and trust me you'll more than make up for it with better customer service, so going for Xoticpc or Malibal is worth it (I say configure your options on both websites and go for the cheaper).

Now to the toughest part, the warranty. Some people get machines that last 5 years without facing any issues and never having to call customer service, but on the other hand there are people who will encounter problems, and if these problems are hardware related which tend to happen after 1 year of usage, then what do you do ? You will surely regret not having paid a couple extra hundred dollars for the 3 year warranty. But that all depends on how much heavy duty you're putting your laptop into, and sometimes unfortunitely it's just a matter of bad luck. Sager IN GENERAL have a great build quality, and I understand your case where you're on a budget, so if it were me i'd take my chances with the standard warranty.

 

So if they ship you a unit and it has dead pixels you have to perform a test and if it fails that test and they can't fix it through software then they'll replace it. But if it fails after a certain time but before 30 days then basically, you're stuck, right?

 

I configured through Xoticpc and their price was better. Powernotebooks was even better than them.
I have to make some phone calls on Monday.

The thing is some companies have tech support that is clueless. I can, but won't name several off the top of my head.
I think I'll ask the reps when I talk with them and sort it out. I'm sure no one locally could fix a Sager.

 

i can say that the reps for xoticpc and malibal are very versed with their products. im sure the other resellers are too but ive had direct experience dealing with these two companies.

 

actually i do recommend xoticpc because that's is my very first sager/online/international purchase and the handled great service and customer support. so i personally rate it out of personal experience. also malibal. well eurocom, all i can say is its overpriced but haven't experienced dealing with them.

and if the dead pixel amount is minimal, you can actually fix it (can't remember what site)

 

Well I can add that I didn't like xoticps official site. Bad design IMO and very bad presentation of laptops. Perhaps it is because they have too much different laptops but... I felt myself like I am in a labyrinth. They show the highest priced laptop and if i don't need useless 12 gb RAM but want everything else the same I got to try to find cheaper model and to see how I can upgrade it. I didn't found there opportunity to choose a design of notebook for a start and then upgrade it from the start.

As I see on malibal site is looks better and you can start to upgrade from almost totally downgraded model.

Why do you want to buy 12 GB of RAM? As I understand you would like to have all 16??? I don't know about 2-nd generation of I7 but first one could use maximum 8 GB. I doubt that it has changed with sandy bridge. It looks like you are going to threw your money in closet

The only way for me to have more than maximum amount of RAM is to use program RAM Disk but as you have SSD it is useless.

PS Why am I the only one who noticed that? I would buy with 2 or 4 GB of RAM in laptop and then bought another 2 or 4 GB max in an Internet shop AT LEAST TWICE CHEAPER

//EDIT: As I told you! Processor doesn't use more than 8 GB RAM. Don't be a fool. Compare Intel Processors If link won't work for you just check Memory Specifications of ANY I7 mobile processor

 

I will check into this if 8GB is all I can access then I'd cut back on that and upgrade the CPU. I have 4 places I am going to call and get prices from. Maybe they are all the same maybe not. They all have excellent reviews from reseller.com

 

Guys,

These CPU's can use up to 16Gig of memory, as long as you are using a 64 bit OS. See the intel spec sheet

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/324692.pdf

Page 13.

The 8170 has 4 slots that can each use a 4Gig module.

Also from my experience with Powernotebooks (where I had ordered from) and XoticPC, they will tell you the only discount they have is 3% for cash, you will most likely not get any other discount. They do price match, but really if you configure the machines exactly the same they will come out with the same cost. If you are seeing a different cost is because you have them configured differently.

Personally I will try Xoticpc most likely the next time I order.

 

It is written complicated but looks like max is 16GB
However their specs of the highest I7 mobile processors shows its not. Perhaps it was theoretically?

Whatever I have 6 GB and I doubt my computer EVER use them all at least for a sec.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m11x/518591-how-much-ram-do-you-have.html

And even if someone still want more memory - it will be cheaper to buy it on your own (the same with SSD)

 

That attached thumbnail is misleading, you need to look at the actual spec's I linked to. I have found at times errors in those marketing webpages. I trust the actual Specifications more.

I will say again with total 100% confidence you can put 16Gigs in these laptops with a Quad Core other than the i7 2630 model, which only supports 8Gig

 

Hi, if you are looking at the NP8170- S1 then you would need to compare it to our Satori P170HM- S1 for an exact price comparison. The Satori P170HM has different pricing than the S1.

 

So getting 12GB should not be an issue then and upgrading should be as simple as filling up the slot with another RAM card depending on what DIMM/SIMM it's using, correct?

I'm not sure why the figures were off by $30 but they were and were configured exactly, maybe a glitch, i don't know.
Was there any reason you would try XoticPC over Powernotebooks? Usually there is a reason.

I've been wondering why Widi 2.0 has been disabled, my wife really would like that for some things that we do like previewing the videos on the larger screen rather than going through the hassle of transferring them.

Thanks for your help.

 

That could have been it. I know on one site I clicked on NP8170 and not the NP8170-S1 and the price was way off.

Since you are a reseller, any idea why Clevo has disabled widi 2.0?
I can understand some features might not be compatible with the graphics chip. But my wife is pretty unhappy that we'd have it but have to buy other tech to do what is already built in.

 

Intel announced these features
Intel Quick Sync Video: hardware video decoding is up to 17x faster than the first-gen Intel HD graphics
Intel InTru 3D: enables stereoscopic 3D Blu-ray playback over HDMI 1.4
Intel Clear Video HD: improved video playback quality
Intel Wireless Display (WiDi 2.0): connect your PC to a TV wirelessly in full 1080p; first-gen WiDi only did 720p

Have all of them have been disabled on the NP8170-S1?

 

And what's the difference between the two ? isn't the S1 just a higher configuration of the regular P170 ? If you configure the regular P170 like the S1 you'll get the same price. Plus Malibal's website doesn't offer a P170-S1

 

Yeah, the S1 is just an upgraded P170. I think it adds blue ray and ram and something else....don't care to look lol. Same thing though.

 

Hi, the P170HM and P170HM-S1 are the same notebook, one is just a discounted configuration. To configure the P170HM-S1 on our site, you have to click the "Deals" link at the top of any page. From there, you will get a popup with a link to the P170HM-S1 configuration page.

 

I've got the following prices for the Satori P170HM & the P170HM-S1, both are configured the same:

P170HM: $2,296.96 w/ $71.04 discount
P170HM-S1: $2,248.46 w/ $69.54 discount

-It seems like Malibal is a lot cheaper than Xoticpc when it comes to the CPU upgrades. For instance, I upgraded the P170HM-S1 CPU to the Intel® Core™ i7-2820QM, 8MB L3 Cache, 2.30GHz (I'm assuming its 2.3-3.4GHz) and the total price comes out to be $2,587.96 whereas if I did the same upgrade at Xoticpc with all the same options on the Sager NP8170-S1, the total price would be at $2935.34. Maybe I'm doing this wrong, can anyone confirm this? thanks in advance.

 

No you're definitely doing something wrong, I configured this laptop on both websites and i got the same price give or take a few dollars, so you're definitely doing something wrong, you don't get anywhere near the 3000$ mark unless you have everything maxed out including a 2920XM cpu, so see what you did wrong.

 

I have found that I can easily break $3k with everything and not even add the 2920XM.

I spoke to Sager today and they suggested that I consider the Sager NP7280-S1
Now while that is an incredible machine it weighs, with the power supply, more than a carry on bag is allowed!
They also said due to my graphics needs that I didn't need the 485M. For certain the resellers have pretty good prices on RAM.
I just can't see lugging 20 lbs of laptop with me. That said the 8170 is pretty darn good except I would probably drop the SSD drive and go with a 750GB 7,200rpm drive which for video work is equal to an SSD drive for write speeds. More room is always better just like RAM it seems CS5 will use every bit of RAM it can find.
The real decisons come from do I get a 2720QM or the 2820QM the cost is big and might not be worth it. Should I get the 485M and just get it over with or will it be a useless upgrade for video work as they say?

 

It would totally depend on your budget. For video work such as editing or rendering the 470M should be plenty. It might be better to spend more on a more powerful CPU.

 

That is the thing. I really don't play games, at least I haven't in many years. I have a PS3 for that if I wanted to play games, although I use mine to display 1080p60p footage on my TV.
I'm trying to figure out if I should forego the 485M. I'm uncertain if it would be an easy upgrade later if I should need it. Honestly I'd rather have blazing speeds during rendering. I can't find the specs on the cpu's tho. The 2630 looks like it's pretty low end and the 2720 looks much better, but maybe the 2820 would be worth it the 2920 is too much. Is the upgrade from the 2720 to the 2820 a big enough increase to warrant the price or is it like a 4% increase in performance?

 

hi steve what video editing suite do use?
ive used power director, ppro cs5, ae cs5, and muvee 8.
in all those ive tried, a gpu only encodes/accelerates certain effects and transitions. for encoding/transcoding it is still the cpu that does the work.
as you know, gpu encoding like cuda, while faster produces infrior quality output compared to cpu encodes. afaik no retail nor enetrprise level video editing software uses gpu rendering because of this (except the 1000usd elemental plugin for ppro cs4 32bit).
if you are not into gaming i suggest you get the 460 with a better cpu

 

I'm currently not running anything. My current laptop is having so many problems that pretty much all I can do is access the forums and email and not a lot else.
I know that CS5 can offload certain tasks to the GPU, Vegas can't or couldn't last I'd heard.
I'll probably get the 470 which is what the NP8170-S1 uses and go for a better CPU. I've already decided against the SSD drive, too expensive and for me not enough benefit to justify the price.

The Sager 7280 is quite a machine but far too heavy, so that just leaves the 8170.
I'm trying to get a deal on the software that I need but have to try a few and see which ones work for me. Very few will output 1080p video but that is slowly changing. To be honest I'd rather have less of a PC and more camera. The Canon XF105 looks pretty nice and is still light enough to use everyday. But the CF cards are $$$$ and at 50Mbps you need a lot of them. Great for action tho.

 

People say: if you ever tried SSD you will never go back to HDD. It gives you overall perfomance. Depending on ssd applications will open in 1-2 seconds. Windows boot in 10-15 seconds. Access time is MUCH lower. And CPU can show all his capabilities on SSD. You may save some money and buy SSD later when other's comments about it's performance will change your mind

About graphic card. 485 is 13% faster than 470. But thanks to bigger memory bus 256 bit against 192 in some applications it can give 30+% advantage. However I think its expensive for your needs.

 

Steve,

You should really look at the Sager 5160/5170 that was just introduced. They have Optimus, so the onboard IGP is enabled. That solves all the questions you have regarding the disabled features of Widi, quick sync, etc.... They cost a lot less so you could upgrade to the 2820QM CPU and still pay a lot less than the 8170.

 

Steve like i said most video editing programs will only offload certain effects and transitions to the gpu.
In fact adobe premiere uses adobe media encoder to encode the videos and ame uses cpu power.
In terms of video editing the hierarchy i see most often is : cpu, ram, hdd, gpu
If you want to go 1080p i would suggest at least a 2820cpu, 12gb ram, 3 hdds if possible with your 2 data hdds on raid0. Of course you could go for less if you dont mind the waiting game too much

 

With regards to software try powerdirector 9. Imho its tye best consumer level video editor and renders faster than ppro cs5

 

No question SSD is faster for read times but for rendering video it makes no difference. I've seen the performance times and it's still going to write at about the same speed. I don't game so I really would rather have more HDD space.
The 485M is a great card and fast but no advantage for my uses. I'm putting the money towards a faster CPU.

 

I just looked it up, it only has 1 HDD and is limited to 8GB of RAM.
I could look into it a bit more but it might not be enough as i really want 2 internal HDD's. It's great that it has Optimus, and it's almost $1,000 cheaper. I'm unsure about the graphics card it might be ok. It certainly sounds like a good system. I think I need more tho.

 

Thanks, I'm going to give it a try when I get a chance. The demo is free and hopefully it isn't as buggy as the reviews say it is.

 

You coul always use an odd caddy to add another hdd and make your bd/dvd rom an external....

 

Yes, that's true but would you really want to lug all that stuff around with you when you travel?

I'd love to buy the 7280 and the price is right but the weight is wrong. The airlines weigh everything and just the laptop & power brick would go over the limit nevermind my cameras and other things.

Too many external components for travel on the 5170, but it's ok for the house.

These are all good ideas and it does give me a lot to think about.

 

Actually the odd caddy is internal, so u get +1 hdd internally
The bdrom i usually leave at home.

 

Steve,

From my experience from having had only laptops for over 4 years, I have never used the ODD while on the road. If I needed to back up stuff I either use a memory stick or a USB flash drive. You would give up watching a movie on the road as really the only use for an ODD. (There are ways around that by using daemon tools to rip an image and then using a virtual ODD drive to run the movie, and since you have 2 HDD you will have more than enough space for several images)

You are really in a rock and hard spot, there is no single laptop that meets all your needs, so you will have to figure out which compromises will work best.

 

Excuse me, but what performance times you saw? And when? You mean performance on rendering or overall writing speed? If the last one - then you are wrong. SSD are writing on 200 MB/sec plus or minus which is higher than any HDD.
Even more. OCZ made SSD which using SATA III interface write and read over 500 MB/sec and compatible to all SATA interfaces

P.S. But SSD drive coming with a laptop may (and probably will be) slower than OCZ Vertex 2 (one of the best), G.Skill and other

 

Thanks, I know I can't have it all. But sometimes I like to kickback and watch a movie. If I'm in the US there is usually a Redbox nearby and that works pretty well. Outside the US is another matter, if you don't have it for weeks or months it can be a problem.
I think I've pretty much narrowed it down to what I need and can afford, just a few decisions left to finalize.
Thanks for all your help.


@James D
I don't see an SSD drive as being any faster for video rendering.
Here is just one link there are many others just like it.

SSD (Solid State Drives) for Encoding?

 

Sorry to bring this issue up again, but it's interesting that you say that optimus has been "disabled". Does this mean it can be re-enabled? Being such a highly customizable laptop - would that be a possibility?

Also, nVidia list the GTX485 as being Optimus enabled... so is there somewhere else in the laptop's main board that inhibits this feature?

Perhaps Clevo could have it listed in the BIOS so if someone REALLY wanted to use it - then they could enable it.

 

i agree steve. fhd files are huge and at the price and storage space available on ssd's it just make them an impractical choice on both counts. another reason why vid editors tend to avoid ssd's is because video editing writes a whole lot of data to the ssd that can degrade ssd performance over time.
to get by the performance limitations of hdd's desktop systems use hdd arrays usually (iirc) in raid 10.
imho your choice of the 8170 is still a valid choice for two reasons: 1. it will allow you to upgrade to the 2920xm and overclock it 2. it will allow you to do a 3 disk setup-1 o/s ssd and 2 data hdd's on raid. combine that with 12gb of ram, the 460m and win7 pro ( to allow you to go beyond the 16gb ram limit of home premium) and you will trully have a mobile video editing powerhouse.

 

It isn't a matter of enabling in Bios, its how the hardware is designed. On the high end of these Sager laptops they have the video output signals hard wired to the MXM connector, so in essence it's permanently disabled. If the Nvidia video signals were routed though the PCH (Platform controller hub, formerly known as IBEX) then you could switch between the intel IGP and the Nvidia GPU. While the GTX 485 is able to do this and the Sager uses the right chipset (PCH) HM67,they chose not to design it into their laptops.