No more Clevo for me....

You do realize that it's the weekend, right? And that Monday is Memorial Day, a federal holiday in the USA? This entire mess started yesterday morning.

While it would certainly be nice if the Resellers or Clevo responded quickly (and I've seen Hutsady@XoticPC in at least one of the threads related to this, to his credit), you're presenting a false dichotomy by saying that the only possible reason for Resellers or Clevo not commenting on this is fear. It's entirely possible that they're off for the weekend, or that most of the Resellers are waiting for a response from Clevo on the issue, or that the emails people have sent to Clevo are still working their way through whatever bureaucracy Clevo has before they can get to someone who can respond factually to the issue.

Also, I still haven't seen any proof that Clevo has decided not to release a BIOS enabling support for the 7970M or other new GPUs at any point. Kingpinzero has claimed the existence of an email from a Clevo rep confirming this, but has not yet released the email (saying something about wanting this to spread more before doing so), and many other people have said that the HM series has been EOLed with all support discontinued, but have been unable or unwilling to point me to any proof of that.

 

just go ahead and ask any reseller of ur choice, they will tell u exactly that@HM series being EOL (naturally, since theyre not produced or sold anymore, aside from leftover stocks). add to that the fact that ever since the HM series were released, BIOS and EC updates became available pretty much every single month. but that stopped in november 2011. how would u interpret that?

 

99% sure it's against forum rules to post private correspondence.

 

Someone else in one of these threads (I really should start noting down the locations of useful posts) pointed out that Clevo has stopped publicly releasing BIOSes. I don't know if that's true, but if it is then the lack of new BIOS updates doesn't actually say anything. If it's not true, then by your train of logic support for the HM series was discontinued about five months before it stopped being sold. Another possible explanation for the lack of new BIOS updates since November 2011 would be that, at that point, it was in a stable state, with all bugs quashed and features fully implemented (or at least sufficiently so from Clevo's point of view), and Clevo did not want to spend the resources on updates to a BIOS that didn't need them. Any of those three possibilities would adequately explain the evidence you point to.

Whoops, that slipped my mind. I suppose I'll just have to hope that the other party in that conversation shows up to confirm the content without actually posting the email.

 

Being that I've decided to wait on the release of the DTR (P270WM) for my needs, and purchase something less expensive to get me buy until I can get my hands on what I want - I'm definitely curious to see where this ends up.

I had planned on looking at another 15" sager to last me until I can get exactly what I want. So Sager/Clevo better come up with a good answer. Because if I purchase a $3500ish laptop to only lack support 14 months later - I'm gonna be rather pissed. Especially since I"ll have purchased another $1300-1500 laptop months earlier that will eventually be turned over to the girlfriend because her Dell is slowly failing.

 

Do we need a lesson on history, and how it gives a glimpse of the future?

Only taking the last five years into account, as far as I can see, the 6970M *surprisingly* working in the W8x0CU is the ONLY example of an EOL model supporting a newer GPU. Otherwise, it's been standard modus operandi, for the GPU upgrades being confines to the next model to be released. Also, when has Clevo ever not EOL's a model within ~18 months, and when have they ever continued BIOS support to an EOL model? Never.

So I get confused and wonder why people are speaking as though Clevo has ever promised, implied, or shown any past precedence, that new generations of GPU updates would be compatible. Do they have it posted somewhere? No. What do the posters here on NBR say? Every time the question comes up in the forums, it's "maybe" and "hopefully", at best. The resellers? Nope, they never say or claim it will work out either. So who sold you the pipe dreams? If something never showed true before, why did you expect it to now?

Knowing their history, I bought my machine expecting that whatever followed the 485M and 6970M would be it, as far as future upgrades. That's how it's always gone with Clevo. I even warned people that 28nm wouldn't work, though for most of Q3/Q4 of 2011 I was predicting a new MXM standard as the culprit.

When I first got into gaming notebooks (right at the advent of the 8000M series), the Golden Rule was, "Never expect future GPU upgrades, so take the fastest one you can afford." Come to think of it, right at that time, a mob of Clevo owners had just found out that their barely broken in 7950 GTX machines could not be upgraded to the new 8800M GTX.

Oh how history repeats itself.

If the 28nm GPUs don't work in the HM, I will be very disappointed too, but let's not take up torches in rage, and act like there has been some huge shift in policy over at Clevo HQ. This looks like business as usual, to me. So why didn't you see that?

You are wrong. In less than a year, the ETU (Core 2 Quad capable) came out with the GTX 260M, and the W8 series followed by the end of that year.

 

ure making a good point there. but consider that those BIOS updates also implemented CPU microcodes (2nd gen SB) and GPU compatibility (starting with 560M and ending with 580M/6990M), and that usually several weeks or even months before those GPUs were officially presented to the public. fast forward to the present: 675M and 7970M were already officially announced and have already been shipped. so wheres the BIOS update for that?

aside from that, ive also read the thing about clevo not pubicly supplying BIOS updates anymore. so if that is actually the case, its even WORSE than just the HM series being cut off. cuz that would mean that buying an EM series laptop now would already cut u off from installing a 680M in a couple of months, due to missing BIOS updates (that were formerly available to the public). thus, BIOS updates would only reach the customer in the case of him/her buying a brand-new laptop. imagine that!

and again, ask any reseller here in the forum, i would be VERY surprised if any one of them would tell u that the HM series isnt EOL.

cheers

 

The problem isn't with Clevo's history, it is about they not living up to their competition (Alienware and MSI), which allows such upgrades while Clevo doesn't, so we are asking Clevo to adopt the same policy as their competition, because if they don't people will just go buy from the other companies instead of them...

It is important to remind that one of the most promoted features of the Clevo notebooks is that there is the possibility of making upgrades, but if their upgrade capabilities are inferior to that of their competitors, their buyers who chose their brand because of this feature will just begin to buy from those competitors instead.

We don't ask that they make the notebook's hardware already thinking about compatibility with the next generation of hardware components (though that would be quite something, if it could be done ), but if the next generation of hardware components is compatible with the previous one, like in this case, that we don't be limited just because of an outdated BIOS version...

 

Good Evening Everyone,

While yes it is true that the HM series has been EoL'ed by Clevo it doesn't mean that things are completely cut off. They aren't producing BIOS / EC updates for them anymore, however, it doesn't mean that they are completely unsupported. The 6xx series works in them right now (680m not withstanding as we don't have one to test), the 670, 675m both work fine. We'll have 660m testing done soon. Also note that even the very short lived P180HM is compatible with the 670m even to the point of the drivers from Clevo supporting it. So they haven't given everything the brush off on that. We have yet to get a final shipping 7970m in from any batch (thats a far different discussion ) from Clevo. But as soon as we do we'll test it. Not using some voodoo magic, not using some "we don't know if this card works card" using a real mass production 7970m. If it doesn't work due to something like a software (BIOS/EC) issue, then we have additional resources to use to attempt to get it to work, we can't guarantee success, as we don't have access to the source-code of the BIOS/EC from Clevo. We've asked time and time again for that access, and have the greenlight from AMI to license their part of the code, however, unless we get the specializations from Clevo we can't fix things, however, there is a lot of magic that we will try to make it work if it doesn't work at first try without the code. So while its their policy to EoL things, and we can't control that, it doesn't mean that everyone has written off this platform =) We sure haven't.

 

also keep in mind that not all new card will need a bios update, i think the 7970m is just a fidgety card.

 

@myth: love you <3

 

Thanks for the post, Mythologic - basically what I've been saying. This GPU is so utterly untested that it's a bit silly to get all angry when there isn't even a definitive answer.

I also have to agree wholeheartedly with Kevin, because the way he described things is, well, the way I always thought they worked. I'm actually surprised to hear that MSI and Alienware *are* doing things differently now. As I said before, if I have any expectation of staying at the very top of the mobile GPU world for more than a year or a year and a half at a time, I expect to be selling off my old laptop and buying a new one every 12-18 months, or whatever.

Also I have to point out again how incredibly hilarious that the poster "Sager" (marked "company representative") who has made all of six posts on this forum, and hasn't posted in about a year, voted "No" on this poll. That cracks me up SOOOO much. Of course Sager wouldn't be disappointed if Clevo stopped supporting the HM series entirely! That means they'd get to sell more EM laptops! xDDDD

If there is one thing I love, it's unflinching corporate honesty in the face of all-out internet-mob-hysteria

 

I love the fact that the only reseller/builder I would do business with is the one that chimes in with that response!

 

Thanks for the answer mythlogic.

Since we are on this subject, someone mentioned that the processor socket and the chipset of the HM models are compatible with the Intel Ivy Bridge Processors, but that the HM models can't be upgraded with these processors because of BIOS issues too.

Is that true? And are you guys working your magic on this too?

 

Nope that's 100% false. No laptop or mobile chipset which existed before the release of Ivy Bridge HM77 chipsets is compatible with it.

 

Thanks.

 

not 100% false. mechanically they ARE compatible, just not software-wise u could very well install an IB cpu in a HM laptop, u just wouldnt get it to run properly.

 

Actually, it should theoretically be possible, but only with a firmware update, and not a single manufacturer is going to provide this (quite understandable). Also the IB CPU wouldn't be able to run at the same speed as on a Ivy chipset.

Edit: jaybee ninja'd me.

 

I dont see how how its big news that the Geforce 670m and 675m are working in the Clevo P1x0HM since its basically rebrands of the 570m and 580m.
Hopefully the 660m or the 680m works, as im willing to pay the price premium so that i can upgrade the lifespan on my gaming notebook.
But i would rather get a AMD gpu. (Fanboy alert ;3 )

 

Actually there are some hardware requirements on the board itself. There are some additional vrm and chokes that are needed. Intel has a document that details the differences that motherboard designers need to build in to support ivb. Look to the left of the socket (closer to the CPU fan) that's where the additional stuff is. So yea its a software and hardware issue.

 

tru that, in the end i wouldnt really care which gpu id upgrade to, as long as it functions properly in my machine!

 

so, hows gtx660m on hm series?
myth, can u upload one 660m vbios? lets see what ***** nvidia done on kepler mobile card's vbios? (use latest nvflash which support kepler)
bcz too many fake card on china market ex:8600gt vbios modded to 9800gt and gpuz been fooled all around.......so like gtx680, its vbios has been heavily ssl encrypted, and many common register have new job like gpu boost...etc, there must be a procedure chip or something on the card to decrypt its vbios and provide system os a "usable" pci addressing to get the card work

if theres no ***** done in mobile card's vbios, then it will be greatly helpful for hacking kepler
if theres ***** done in mobile card's vbios, i think must need a sbios update to support kepler

 

...so... mythlogic uses the same "case" as sager and clevo right?..will his issue apply to them as well?

 

I only care if they are using a whitelist system. If that ever proves to be the case I expect their market share will dry up.

 

Well, to be exact Clevo is the head, very top of the heap. Everyone else is using the Clevo externals and internals, regardless of what they call the machine before they sell it.

 

ah..hm, thanks..(wondering now if i should switch to a chassis that uses dual 675m's) ill make a thread for that later,(or add to my current thread..)

+rep for you ...once i figure it out.

 

Thanks Myth for the input.
However your opinion is valid as much as ours - we're just assuming that Eurocom had a bad card or a wrong card from the start - but there's still a chance that the hd7970m doesn't work at all.
I mean we're not sure about this or that yet.
Also I understand everyone point of view on the matter but still there's some lost focus here.
The original request is simple and easier: I want Clevo to release at least 1 bios update officially to support this year newer cards.
I don't care about anything else.
The whole point is that I'm sick to being left in the corner due to stupid marketing decisions or laziness by manufacturer.
Not all the people's are tech savvy enough to tweak or hack their systems to grant the ability to upgrade.
We own a 11 months old system that is left alone without support by any means. Their attitude of being hideous is just wrong.
Until we get a final confirmation about the hd 7970m working definitely in our HMs all the points, the anger, the delusion and the broken hopes of ALL the users/costumers that expressed their feeling still stand strong.
Again i appreciate everyone inputs such Mythlogic who once again shown that their very close to customers, beyond the business profession.
But the whole point stand still.

And to those new EM users, I hope from the bottom of my heart that you will not face the same doom we have right now.
But if this happens, then you'll know how pissed we're feeling.

Remember that the petition is still online and available, please use the link in my signature.
Also for those asking about that famous email I maybe dug it up from my email archive and will post it.

 

Okay seems i found the email from 1 april when i contacted clevo.de about the feasibility of a gpu upgrade via bios.
They confirmed the line was EOL at the time.
Sorry it took time but my mailbox is a mess and i had a few issues with it.
Hope it helps those who were asking for a confirmation althought i see no point of it, resellers pretty much confirmed it.

 

I just bought my laptop less than 6 months ago and it seems that I can't upgrade with any new card 6 months later !
I am really regret buying a laptop from clevo

 

i know how you feel. Besides im taking a look at MSI barebones, but hell, those are pricey even at stock config with the 670m.
If anyone has a place where to look for 16F2 barebones since they're confirned working with Hd7970m im all ears.

Also a kind request to Mythologic: ive already made business with you guys and i can say only outstanding things.
On behalf of the whole community of HM users, i want to make an official request of testing the HD7970m into any HM barebone, namely p150 and p170.
Same request has been made to eurocom and xoticpc Justin, without results (well, partially something from the first).
The more resellers we get to fullfill this request the more chance we have to sort this problem.

Thank you.

 

He already said they will do it in his post......

 

Two is better than one i know, i just want to make it official.

 

I hope it works... for the love of god. 7970M or 680M work!!

 

Some scatterd thoughts.

I didn't expect Clevo to give me the support that Apple provides (that's why Clevo is Clevo, Apple is Apple, Sony is Sony etc). I mean, who are they? They just manufacture, they don't sell, they don't have to confront customers every single day. Most of the customers don't even know their existence, it's Sager, Eurocom, Mythlogic, Plaisio (my country's reseller) who must give the answers, who must hear the complaints. But EOL after one and a half year?... So, what's the conclusion?.... Give your money to a company that respects you, that half eaten fruit or those 4 letters are not just an overpriced logo...

If i had the money, i would go for an Alienware, no more Clevo for me.

 

Im starting to see the reason about the overpriced alienware.
They give you some sort of services that usually you dont have with other brands.
The ability to upgrade an individual component or the whole system by the in-house trade in is worth those 200$ you pay.
At least you can be relaxed with the pace of mind of future upgrades.

But dont get me wrong i still love clevo because is so "raw" and everything you get out from it has that feeling "ive done it". Which is awesome.

I really hope we can get at least an update on the matter.

 

pesta re file!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

lol, ellines! patrida re magkakia!

 

Right now the feeling is "I am helpless"!!!

 

Jay never thought you were Greek So we're very close...geographically speaking lol.

EDIT: ok just got off the phone with a Dell rep. The base config of m17x along with HD7970 comes for 1799€ lol.

Basically i can get an EM barebone fitted with the HD7970m under 1000€ all included. And use my own parts in it. Thats why Clevo is awesome. But for what purpose? Next year probably the EM will suffer the same end we've had with our HM.

 

lol so you are greek too?

 

Greeks, Italians, Spanish, we are all doomed (economically speaking). A bios from Clevo would make our day a little more tolerable!

 

Jesus lets not start talking about economics. Greece wins the cup this year, spain a good second place that probably we italians will take over soon.

Thats also one of the points why i cant hold it anymore. Its not a matter of a single indivudal "pockets", half europe is in one of the worst economic situations ever.

And these peoples doesnt give a damn. Which is fine, beacause i bet no one cares about this, its not their country. But still what i should do with my 1500€ laptop that i cant upgrade anymore?

Im sure if this happens in somewhere else, lets say USA or UK, some people will understand how pissed i am.
Getting a whole new laptop its not tolerable, let alone affordable. With the risk of getting doomed next year like it happened to us.

 

under 1000euro??? post some quotes here, how did you came out with that number please.

 

Rjtech.com

 

what about taxes and customs???

 

Well I bought laptops because I was once a builder myself from everywhere.
Italian taxes are included in the customs, usually I don't pay more than 200€.
With UPS usually the customs aren't that high assuming you choose the best and fast reliable way to get your items.
Plus afaik rjtech final price is with taxes. Remember that in talking about just the chassis with the gpu, nothing else.

 

No updates or any emails from Clevo HQ on this matter..

 

no wonder

 

haha i get that all the time was born and raised in greece but have lived most of my life in germany ^^ so actually one of the few "lucky ones" who escaped economic doom. but still! dont have any extra cash to spend dammnit! especially not on superfluous EM series upgrades ugh

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

 

Update the petitions thread OP with this..