No more gpu upgrades for p170hm and p150hm (sandy bridge) :(

So i just got this information from some trusted sources.

Not only the 180hm is EOL, but also both 170hm and 150hm.

I mean, this wasnt a real news. BUT, seems that clevo will not release any bios update or anything like that to support newer gpus, starting from gtx 675m.

This means that unless you buy the laptop again (or a barebone) you're cut out from upgrades althought our laptops should be more than capable of running newer gpus since very little has changed.

I had my hopes high to get a 680m in the near future, but if that means buy another laptop, then screw it. Ill be back to desktops pronto.

What pisses me off and drives me nuts is that my laptop is just 6 months old, and its already EOL, un-upgradable piece of junk. Im sick of these weird politics by manufacturers, i thought Clevo was different, but its obvious that its not.

And the saddest part is that we in europe cant use any upgrade service like peoples in the States, no one wants our stuff back.

/rant

EDIT: also confirmed by PCSystems-Evolutionx builders. Last card supported will be 580m for nvidia and hd6990m for AMD.

 

I wonder if this is something the BIOS mod people could work on. I know Clevo bios are kinda locked down, but if there's a way, they could probably find it..

 

I hope so it's not true. I have huge plans for next upgrade this year. If Clevo lock posibilities for future upgrades i will never buy again their laptops!

 

I wasn't planning to upgrade in the future but the fact that they have the ability to upgrade the older models to run the new cards but choose not to just due to the fact they have a new model out now makes me think poorly of Sager/Clevo.

 

Sadly seems confirmed 100%.
Basically clevo is pissed off due to intel being late than announced at the party along with AMD and nvidia newer gpus.
The insider told me that they are pissed off because this somewhat blocked temporarily sales and thus creating a loss in incomes.
Not to mention the whole presentation and marketing stuff they had ready for cebit, because they were ready to make some announcements (at least the insider told me this), but they scrapped everything last minute due to all this ivy bridge mess.

The executives told to my insider that since up this point a lot of time has been wasted there's no point in further wasting it into updating existing products, they will need to focus full time/force with newer EM series.
Also since nvidia has been quite lazy they're doing this as some sorta of revenge toward them, so he said.

In the end who will remain royally screwed is the end user such us. I've had this laptop since 6 months but what makes me sad is those who bought a p170/150hm last week/month without waiting for ivy bridge thinking they could upgrade but they will not.
I feel sorry for those guys, they bought something already EOL in all possible ways.

Sorry for the long post also all the builders should check clevo and sager for the truth because they're keeping these news silent for a reason.

 

Wow, I really can't believe this. The reason I bought a p150hm was because I thought I could upgrade the GPU when kepler was released. My 485m isn't even getting impressive speeds compared to most of the overclockers here... I hope someone in the community can get a hack out.

 

I don't understand all the fuzz. The HM-models will likely work with newer cards anyways, just as my w860cu runs perfectly with the (unsupported) 6970m, without any sort of special BIOS needed.

The fact that the HM-models are EOL, is simply because a newer model (EM) is appearing. Anyone who knew that the new models came out should have known this as well.

I'm not surprised to hear that Clevo might be stopping their work on the older models as they have done this before (ex. BIOS support for W8*0cu-series).

Anyways. The fact that newer gpus might not be officially supported on the HM-models does not mean that they aren't upgradable.

 

Like oan001 said, this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. Clevo has been doing this since pretty much day one.
You should still be able to just plug in the new GPU. In terms of the P180HM, Clevo never supported the 6990m in crossfire yet it still worked. I'm not even sure the bios offically supports a single 6990m.

 

I have successfully ported the GTX580M support back into an early bios on the HM, but after taking a look at the EM bioses I found that the Optimus 2.1 support has changed the whole way those modules work...that being said the new cards should sort of work in a sense that they fire up, but things like NVIDA 3D may not work as that is something written in those modules, because of licensing issues...

 

Well if Clevo is pissed about a loss of income then this change in
policy should really make them happy.

I was waiting to pop for a new machine but the ONLY ONLY ONLY
reason to consider Clevo is the ability to upgrade.

So if that is off the table forget them.

 

Hey, you will still be able to stick newer cards such as the 675 in. Just there won't be new versions of BIOS released. I bet there will be people creating homebread BIOS updates, though... But I don't even think they will be needed... So don't worry so much.

 

Well lets put this in perspective: if future cards turns out to be incompatible, i could go with 580m just for overclocking sake, since most of the cards i saw can reach desktop gtx560ti clocks. I guess those 5fps will be more future proof.

I really hope to see someone experimenting with 675m at least in upcoming months. I would be nice that Malibal, Xotic and Mythologic test the 675m on 150hm just to see if it works even unofficially.

I mean they have access to all parts and notebook, it will be easier to get them test the 675m on the older laptops.

 

It's times like this that resellers and distributors should step in and put pressure on clevo.

I mean EOL product fine, it was replaced, but EOL on Bios/EC Updates? So existing issues and any new ones we are just SOL on?

You would think a big company such as Sager could apply some pressure on them but we know that wont happen as Clevo knows Sager only sells Celvo thus can't make any threats.

Oh well, guess we will just stay screwed, I am use to it.

My only hope was for maybe the 6xx GPU and a much needed EC update that actually corrects temp/fan curves properly. That and a bios that supports ATA PWD would be great. lol

 

Theres an encouraging fact, some users are pissed about these decisions. So i think its a matter of having our voice heard. All this silence plus doesnt help a bit.

Our only hope are the builders/resellers that can test newer cards on older systems, or someone who can access the parts.

 

This is the current policy for ALL electronics manufacturers. Be they domestic appliances, photo cameras or high-end laptops, the policy is: No support for old models so that the suckers, i.e. our clients, are forced to buy our new models.

[Rant mode/ON]

It disgusts me that equipment that costs thousands of dollars/euros has such limites life spam because the manufacturer stopped upgrading software/firmware or simply discontinued parts for old models.

Am I the only one who feels like he's getting ripped-off? Some one should put an end to this. There should be laws that forced manufacturers to provide support/upgrades for a determined amount of time on expensive electronic equipment. We, consumers, are getting less and less for our money's worth.

[Rant mode/OFF]

Appart from GPUs, memory, drives and screens are also upgradable on other manufacturer's laptops. Is there any point buying Clevo with these kind of news?

 

Hi first sorry for my english I'm an Italian who can not find information about his Clevo p170hm and any updates.

I believe that the update with a new video card is not a problem, check out this site where I bought my Clevo p170hm (called by them storm sb)
Guru STORM IV - Gamer Laptop: Gaming Laptops und Notebooks bei Notebookguru.de
[I hope I can add that site, is a German site]
As you can see they sell the 675m in a Clevo p170hm

I sent an email asking:
I have a storm sb (Clevo p170Hm), i want to know if I can update it with a processor Core i7-3920QM ivy bridge or Core i7-3720QM. Instead, it will be updated with vga 7970m or 675m? Will you release new bios about it? I bought this Hoping it will be upgradeable notebook

and this site told me:

CPU upgrade is not possible at this time Perhaps later.
Update VGA is no problem!


But I do not know if I should upgrade my BIOS.

 

It seems like this really isn't that big of a deal since you can still upgrade the GPU with or without a BIOS update.

 

Mobile GPU has its own bios, it can work independently, it doesn't need the motherboard bios to "recognize" it. This is similar to installing desktop GPU to desktop motherboard. Most important thing is whether the GPU pins fit in the slot. As long as it remains MXM 3.0b and the card can fit, it will run.

However function like Optimus that requires the motherboard to work together; might or might not work.

 

ok, I would change my i7 2630qm with a new i7 3820qm, the jump in performance should be a good 50%. All for about 500$

 

I seriously doubt an inability to upgrade the GPU until they head to mxm 4.0. It's never been a problem before and I'm sure it won't be now. You'll get your 1 gpu upgrade before you EOL your clevo due to being totally beat up from old age.

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You can't use the new IV with the old HM laptops because of the motherboard.

 

I was going to comment on that as well. You're way better off throwing your cash into a gpu upgrade later than spending $500 for like 300 extra mhz.

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As long as the slots can support it, I fully expect people to get 6xx and 7xxx cards running.

 

The differences between the 2630qm and 3820qm are many.
-700Mhz base in more
-the same frequency as the ivy bridge has a 10 \ 15% better performance
-Intel ® vPro Technology, Intel ® Virtualization Technology for Directed I / O (VT-d), Intel ® Trusted Execution Technology
-increases the cache from 6MB to 8MB.

These features make the 3820qm a 40% faster and 50% more efficient than my 2630qm.

But of course the priority is the video card because it is used to 100% in games

 

Hello all!
What is the problem here?
The new Nvidia Cards got the MXM 3.0b socket!
The new Nvidia Cards got a highest TDP of 100 Watt
The new Nvidia Cards got 100% backward compatibility
to PCIE 2.0 Motherboards!!!!!( World Leader in Visual Computing Technologies | NVIDIA)
So i think it works to 100% on P150hm/P170hm
Lucky thread

 

Seems like unnecessary drama, from people who haven't been with Clevo for very long.

Clevo has NEVER officially added BIOS support to EOL models, after a new line has released. NEVER have they gone back to ensure that new GPUs worked with old models.

Clevo has never promised us anything about GPU upgrades. We've always run purely on hope that things would "just work" if we tried them.

It's been like this from day one. I can understand being disappointed, but don't act as if something has been snatched away from you unfairly, after the fact. Buying a gaming notebook and expecting future tech upgradeability has been a cardinal sin, from the time MXM first came onto the scene, yet we keep falling into the trap.

Now compare the 3820QM to the 2860QM.

 

Oh, cool. didn't know that. Now all that's left is to wait for the GTX680M to be released and shell out what will probably end up being a ridiculous amount of money for it

 

50%? More like 25% pushing. And I'm not even talking about games, where the difference would give you 5 fps tops in some cases.

 

Man that might be close to the price of a new notebook preorder, judging by previous prices. The 485M and 580M are both $800 right now, at that's after a $100 price drop on the 485M.

Every generation I say, "hopefully Nvidia has learned their lesson and won't have crazy prices", but they don't seem to get it.

I'm confident the 7970M will come in around $500, just like their flagships always do.

 

The frequency increased from 2 Ghz to 2.7 Ghz, (this only makes it 30% faster)
The cache will give a 5% increase
and a 10% improvement at the same frequency for ivy
If you add intel technology, with 3820qm get to a 50% increase of 2630Qm.

I do not know if a game you can feel the difference (especially @ 1920x1080), but you note when you work at graphics work.


I know that in a 2860qm 3820qm and the difference is small (10%) but if I can find them at the same price I do not understand why I should take the 2860qm instead of 3820qm. Only a problem of incompatibility may make me choose 2860qm.

The same thing that I think even a likely cost $ 800 while a 680m 7970m will cost far less, you know if and when it comes out a possible 7990m?

The same thing that I think even a possible 680m cost $ 800 while a 7970m will cost less, you know if and when it comes out a possible 7990m?

 

Jo,now i got the information from a notebook builder
that the GTX680M can fit my P170hm!
I think the GTX680M will be the fastest Card this year.
I compare it to a overclocked GTX 560 TI Desktop Card!
Think GPU clock will be around 500 MHZ with full GK104
build.
What did You mean?

 

yup, i can confirm that. upgraded from a 2720QM to a 2860QM cuz i stumbled upon a pretty sweet deal (approx. 240€ upgrade after selling off my old cpu). in games its just about a 4% increase in fps, whereas cpu-intensive work would be closer to around 15%. so even when theotetically upgrading to a 3820QM (not gonna be possible anyways cuz of incompatibility to cougar point), i wouldnt expect more than 20-25% max., coming from a 2630QM, and that ONLY in cpu-intensive tasks!

cheers

 

I can see your way of thinking, but that would only happen in an ideal scenario where all the CPU cores would use their processing ability to the max and perfect multitasking would be taking place. So theoretically, yes, it would give you something close to a 50% increase in processing power.

But that scenario will never happen, so you have to think about everyday situations. This is why I gave you those numbers in my previous reply.

 

Yeah, you're absolutely right. They are just ideal scenarios, there is nothing so optimized for multitasking. I think it's much more important an upgrade of the VGA

(Sorry for my english)

 

Again, I was just saying that I would be surprised if the new NVIDIA graphics cards don't work in the higher end sandy bridge clevos.

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This is not true. Desktop motherboards and video cards do not need to use monitor firmware for their integration while the laptops do. Laptops need a piece of firmware that sits either on the mobile graphics card, on the motherboard or both so that the DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort output is serialized into an LVDS signal which is used by the laptop monitors.

 

Im not sure if I understand 100%...

Does this mean I wont be able to upgrade to a newer GPU when one comes out for the NP8170 ? I have the NP8170 with a 580M but im sure a newer card will come out soon...Will I be able to upgrade it?

Xoticpc.com said that its User Upgradeable when selecting the 580m, wouldnt that be false advertising if you wont be able to do it ?

 

Ugh... No one is going to guarantee compatibility with prerelease hardware. There is an excellent chance that it will be fully supported but no promises until after release

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Everyone who is so hopeful... try a Nvidia GT 240m in your Clevo. I did, and it did not work.

Any notebook builder would tell you it fits, obviously, because its the same slot. The problem, is the BIOS. Its a big problem.

All I can say is TOLD YOU SO.
Clevo does not want their users to upgrade. The fact is, its not necessary to add support for each individual model of card supported in the BIOS. You can design a BIOS with correct MXM structure to handle "non standard" cards. Take an embarrassing look at the MSI gx740 and gx640, both of which have been upgraded to 6970m and gtx 460m, cards which they were never released with. Clevo designs their BIOS without a good MXM structure, because... they don't want their users to upgrade. Unless they profit from it of course.

So next time you take a company at their word, slap yourself a few times and do some research instead of wasting your money.

That said, anyone wants to try it, here ya go:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M GDDR5 MXM 3.0 Graphics Card (N13E-GS1-LP-A1) - Graphics Card - Parts - Computer

 

Okay, I have a couple questions:
You say the GTX460M worked in your np8760. Isn't that evidence for the case that an upgrade through generations would work, assuming the original card was the GTX280M? Is it possible that downgrades have more issues?
also, you say in that thread, "Also, I should mention, Clevos do not seem to allow vBIOS flash or any recognition of GPU when booted to DOS."
This I don't understand. I've flashed the vBIOS of my gtx485M to 1.03v and back through DOS, is there a discrepancy I'm missing here?

On the skeptical side, I don't believe your recommendation of trying a GTX670M in current-gen laptops is valid. I might not be technically inclined enough to understand the differences, but I was under the impression that the GTX670M was a fermi core and basically just a rebrand of the GTX570M, which current clevos do support. Even if the GTX670M happened to work, I don't believe it would confirm nor deny the possibility that kepler cores (GTX680M) would work in current clevos.

 

I had a little chuckle reading this post. Why on earth would you want a 240m in a clevo?

To be a bit more on the serious side though, the w860cu, which I am a lucky owner of, has had the following GPUs as far as I can recall:

• gtx 260m
• gtx 280m
• gtx 285m
• gts 360m
• gtx 460m
• gtx 470m
• ati 5870m
• amd 6970m (unsupported)
• amd 6990m (unsupported)

Now why would I be embarassed by looking at the MSI's?

While trying to put as many different MXM-cards as possible into a machine, to see which are compatible and which are not may be fun, most of us only care about putting better cards into our units. This has worked for the w8*0cu-series which, I believe, was the first clevo-series with the MXM 3.0 standard, so I don't see why it shouldn't work with the P1*0HM-series as well.

It is a bit reassuring that some manufacturers seem to deny the rumour that newer cards won't work in the HM-series. Either way, I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

Its very simple logic. Clevos seem to support GPUs by specific models in the BIOS. Its indicative that newer cards will not work.

The point is, why on earth would you want a 240m to NOT work in your clevo? What if you needed some cash and had to sell your 6970m and all you had was a 240m?

You don't see why it wont work with the P1*0HM series? Its obvious. Because, according to the information in this thread, Clevo had to update the BIOS to include those cards and thats the only reason they DO work.

We've already tried some "newer" cards like the Quadro 3000m.

Besides all of my logic, there are the simple facts of how MXM structure works. Talk to .Netroller3d about it if you want. A laptop NEEDS an MXM structure BIOS callback in order to support cards it wasn't built for, and if Clevos don't support the 240m, thats a sure sign they don't have it.

The only thing you can bank on is cards like the 675m being similar enough to the 580m that it will treat it the same. But eventually the architecture will change and that will be it, no more upgrades.

 

Your explanation still doesn't address the fact that the 6970m and 6990m do work in older hardware that never supported them. From your logic, all I see is that it's a toss-up as to whether or not kepler and tahiti will work in the p1x0HMs.

 

Well, it's always a toss-up.

What niff is saying does make sense though, as it's a more recent discovery.

We'll have to see how it works out, and it can't be known before someone actually tries.

 

were the 485m and the 580m tested on the 8690?

 

I don't know all the inner works of these machines, or the MXM standard. All I wanted to point out was that clevo's have been upgraded to more powerful, unsupported cards such as the 6970m.

I also wanted to say that the MSI's you posted about do not shame the same gen clevo w8*0cu-series, as far as gaming cards go.

I get the point about different architectures (I'm guessing the 5870m and 6970m are based on the same arch?), but I think it is to soon to say if the cards released this summer will not work in the HMs.

The 485m was tested on the w860cu, and worked, but only using one 2gb stick of RAM. The post also mentions that the 480m has been tested and worked, but I've found no confirmation about this (in any case, the 480m is weaker than the supported 470m). Here is the post:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...le-2gb-ram-succeed-other-ram-size-failed.html

 

The fact that they have been upgraded to the 6970m means nothing about the p150hm etc.

Since Clevo is now dropping BIOS updates for GPU compatibility on the p150hm etc it means they were doing otherwise with the w860cu to get the 6970m supported. Logic suggests the w860cu would not support the 6970m if Clevo was as lazy then as they are now.

Do you get what I'm saying now?

 

Splendid Niff, thats the reason why i started this thread. Seems that only a few peoples got the meaning behind it; the fact that future cards can work is a matter of luck, but looking at things right now id say 70% not work, 30% work.
Probably the future kepler 680m will not work, so we're stuck with a single gpu upgrade if 675m turns out to be working, if not, well time to move to desktops this time.
We cant buy a damn notebook every year, its insane. Because afterall p150hm is just an year old. An whole feckin year. Its more a matter of being lazy than anything else, and im starting to think that boycott them is the only way to make our voice heard.

Or someone with some serious modding skills could add support to the last bios but i still doubt it, Prema said that things are different this time on bios level..

 

As said earlier I have successfully ported an unsupported gpu back into an older bios.
I am now aware of what modules contain the necessary code and have a chip programmer and a motherboard socked for the bios chip on order to do all tests...so we may be able to do something about it in future if required.
No promises though as Optimus is part of that module now on the EM models. Which may or may not be ignored by our good old HMs...

 

Wait wasn't the 240m a mxm2.0 card? If so, no manufacturer supports 2.0 in mxm3.0b models. That's an mxm standard thing, not a sager thing

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