OFFICIAL Statement regarding the Sager NP9260 (Clevo D900C/D901C) Quad Core Information

This is the OFFICIAL Statement regarding the Sager NP9260 (Clevo D900C/D901C) Quad Core Information:

THE LATEST UPDATE ON THE QUADCORE IS NOW LOCATED AT http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=2286998&postcount=40

"D900C: Blue Case
D901C: Black Case (Sager NP9260)


We want to explain to our customers the reason why we are not using the Q6600 Quad Core processor in our NP9260 unit, and why modifying your unit by adding that processor will void your warranty and release Sager from all liability relating to the malfunctioning of the unit.

While Sager does its best to bring leading technology to our customers, we can not ignore the lab test result from Clevo.

Per Sager’s request Clevo has conducted multiple tests to determine whether the Q6600 Quad Core processor is usable in the current Sager NP9260 (Clevo D901C Black color). While the system will accept the processor and boot up, due to hardware specifications it will cause system failure if used long term.

While you may have read that the Intel X6800 and the Q6600 are very similar in thermal and wattage, that is not the case. Reports showing these similarities have not been run in real life applications and uncontrolled environmental conditions.

The fact is:

Intel X6800 is a 75 watt sku
Intel Q6600 is a 105 watt sku

This puts the Intel Q6600 Quad Core 30 watts over specification. This can increase by an additional 10 to 15 watts under extreme max load conditions. This wattage increase brings additional heat and often will be combined with environmental temperature. A few benchmarks simply do not show the real world long term effect on the system.

Rest assured that we are constantly working to use the latest and greatest technology in our units. And we have requested Clevo to continue working to enable Quad-Core functionality. However, we are also committed to providing our customers with a product that will work reliably in the long term. In this case, using the Q6600 in the NP9260 would not accomplish that goal."

 

WOW.. thats impressive. Now thats what I call Quality Control and True Inhouse testing.. Plus that will keep RMA's down.. but thats still cool.

 

Thanks Donald for the official word from Sager.

The math seems correct.

In any case, the Quad Core Q6600 is technically compatible in the D900C.... however the question of long term stability and use from any excess heat or power consumption is hard to find an answer to.

I have been doing the math (power usage) for this unit when it first came out.

:GEEK: My interpretation: :GEEK:
The notebook was originally designed to have:
-- CPU: desktop Core 2 Duo/Xtreme
-- HDD: up to 3 internal
-- Videocards: up to dual SLI-mode videocards (using new modular design)

The notebook now:
-- CPU: compatible with Quad-core Q6600 (approx 30-40 more watts than X6800)
-- Videocards: (though not official through Clevo yet) new enthusiast Geforce 8M's (8700, 8800, etc...) have been discussed at Computex that shows a 22W+ envelope... which would make it plausible to be used in the new [next-gen] Clevo notebooks.

Therefore (theoretically)... If you were to use a single videocard (giving you an extra 25+ watt buffer) and use the Quad-core Q6600, the system would theoretically be healthy for long term use. I cannot say for having SLI and the Q6600 together since the math shows it pushing the envelope.

In any case, this notebook should still be considered the world's first Quad-Core notebook... making it faster than it was initially perceived.
EDIT: though it may be the first Quad-core supported notebook, its does not seem to be recommended from Sager... as well as from myself.

These are all unofficial interpretations, but I have been pondering about this for quite some time now..

Final Thoughts:
Glad to see that Sager has stepped up to show their concerns as well.... I would like go along with their recommendation and also say that its not a good idea to use a Quad-core CPU in this notebook.

Thanks again Donald.

-Gophn

 

Gophn...please re read the notice and possibly amend your comments.

"...we are also committed to providing our customers with a product that will work reliably in the long term. In this case, using the Q6600 in the NP9260 would not accomplish that goal."

 

Sager prepared this statement not only for resellers but for our review of the 9260 that will be posted in the next 24 hours. We have experienced issues with the Q6600 during our testing and will be posting the details of shortly...

 

Thanks for the update Donald, glad to finally get a truthful word about the topic with enough detail so hopefully people won't challenge why the decision stands.

Some people *cough*Gophn*cough* might still be pushing for support early though.

 

Can't wait for your review! Thanks Justin

 

I know I know, I am just enthused about stuff like this.

I already added the EDIT about this notebook is not being recommended for Quad-core use.

Maybe Clevo will release a new revision that will give more power ... *grunt* *grunt* *grunt*

Here's hoping for a true Quad-core notebook... can't wait to see Clevo's version of the D900C for the AMD Phenom X4's.

 

That is not surprising that you are having difficulties Justin.

What everyone should keep in mind is that:
1. Even if you just run a single GPU does not mean that the thermal (heat) dissipation necessary for the CPU could be "deducted" from that which the GPU is not generating. The Quad will still over stress the CPU area's thermal capability in hot conditions (summer days, Middle East desert etc.) when under heavy gaming or engineering use.
2. The 22 Watt estimate of the video is not supported by nVIDIA or the laptop manufacturers. Paper specs are rarely accurate in real world conditions and applications.
3. Even IF the 22 Watt is accurate (which is highly doubtful) it does not take into consideration the transistors and capacitor on the GPU board, or the memory wattage which when all added together could take it up to 45+ Watts.

 

Thanks for posting this information Donald. I really don't see much of an advantage to quad-core processors right now - if you need that kind of power, you should be looking at a desktop system anyway. If the X6800 isn't powerful enough then I don't know what will be.

Very much looking forward to your review Justin.

I'm currently typing on a Clevo D900C myself and I have to say, it is an awesome machine.

 

Gophn, we appreciate your enthusiasm, and you can rest assured that Sager/Clevo will continue to bring us more and more power with each new generation.

 

Add a *grunt grunt* from me as well for when quad's will be official!

Unfortunatly, the software just isn't there for really utilizing that kinda power

That, and first generation quads (Intel's atleast) are scoring lower then dual cores because of the bridge latency between the twin cores. These things are really shining only in transactional system's and a few other smaller more specialized markets. I don't honestly see mainstream support till at least 2010 at this rate when looking at how long we have had dual core processors and comparing the application support on them. (I think that statement makes enough sense, might edit later for clarity but in hurry )

 

Next year we will have Quads all over the place with the new architecture from Intel to be launched in the end of this year IMHO (at least in desktops). Overall the new architecture is more efficient in power consumption and heat generation. As far as I read and understand it it will be just enough to fit into a box such as the one of D900c, but it will require the P35 chipset at least on board. But yes we have to wait and see, I would not buy a Quad for gaming at the moment anyway for the reasons Pyro posted.

Trance

 

Goph,

Using a single GPU doesn't help relaxing the CPU's limits. The power converters are most likely not the same, I don't even think they share the same fan(s). So this basically only flies for the power brick..

 

I have made this thread a sticky so as many people as possible see this.

 

Good Idea!

 

The "solution" to the quad core problem would be to build a Xeon based notebook that uses the 50W 1.86GHz L5320 quad core Xeon. Of course, the added heat and power from FB-DIMMs will probably cancel out the power savings from the CPU.

The best bet would be to base it on upcoming nVidia Xeon boards which should be out by the end of the year, now that they have a Xeon license. nVidia's Xeon boards should use regular DDR2 or DDR3 rather than FB-DIMMs since they are targetted more at workstations than servers. The end of the year would also bring 45nm server Penryns (desktop and mobile versions likely won't be out until Q1 2008), but Intel will probably keep the same TDPs and push higher clock speeds rather than cutting power further.

 

I think the Sager folks should wait for the 45nm then...

 

I think it would be best to wait for a single Quad core cpu for laptops. To understand what I am saying take a look at this picture.

http://images.tomshardware.com/2006/08/31/four_cores_on_the_rampage/quad_core_simple_view.jpg

Basicly it a quad core. But what intel did was put two E6700 65 nm 4MB cache dual core at 2.66 GHz chips to make a K6400 with two 4mb cache = 8mb cache. With a laptop the two core 2 glued together is going to be overkill and be to hot.

Remember when Amd frist came out with a dual core. They where smart to make it on one chip. Intel was in a rush to match Amd and glue two P4 together then seid it was dual core. It took untel Core 2 to come out and we see the benifits of a ture dual core chip. With Less power useage and faster chip.

 

yea thats why it's called core 2 quad , and not quad core

 

Core is Intels brand (its just a brand, to revive Intel after the P4 "disaster" (remember we were promised 10GHz processors?)), the 2 just means its second generation (in this case Core=32bit and Core 2 = 64bit), like the Pentium lineage Pentium 2,3,4 etc. Solo, Duo and Quad denotes how many cores there are and Extrme denotes unlocked multipliers and higher clock speeds, so a Core Solo is the first generation of the Core series with a single core. a Core 2 Solo is second generation Core series with a one core processor. A Core 2 Quad is second gen Core with 4 cores etc. If Intel kept the pentium brand we'd be looking at Pentium 6 Quad etc.

back on topic:
I read somewhere that Intel was planning to release Quads and Extremes (mobile versions not the horrid desktop processors in the Clevos - no offence but I'm not a big fan of desktop processors in 2 and a 1/2 inch laptops - at those prices might as well get a desktop for performance and a cheap but productive laptop for the same price) for the Santa Rosa platform at the end of the year so you might be getting your quad laptops sooner rather than later...

 

What is the power consumption on the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700?

Edit: Nvm found it....130 Watt TDP

Further Edit: But I wonder if you have a more aggresive cooling for the CPU it would be more stable right? i.e. the higher the TDP the more cooling you need. So should a more aggresive cooling solution work?

 

Sure, a more aggressive cooling solution would do the job just fine. Good luck getting a more aggressive cooling solution in a notebook though. If any notebook manufacturer will pull that off before Clevo does, Asus might with their upcoming C80 or C70 notebooks. However, your best bet would be to wait for quad core CPUs with a TDP below 100 W.

 

Check out this site:
http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/info.asp?c1=3&c2=15&id=2218

They list the Q6600 for less than half of the X6800 upcharge and they list teh dual 8700m GTX Sli, ETA AUGUST, and they sell 4gb of 800 mhz ram installed. Maybe they are early because they are closer to China?

 

The U.S. distribution chain isn't going to give you the Q6600 at the moment. Australian retailers can do as they please.

 

That company seems to hype up a lot of things and offer them well before they are tested/released. I would not trust the info on that site.

 

thats awesome except the pricing is REDICULOUS, and yes i converted to american lol, and chaz is rite.... it says the parts have ETAs.... meaning how could they have even put it together to rele see if it works themselves!!... plus, i trust Sager's testing results... if it does work... except to cover anything you lay this comp down on with fire-retardant coating

 

Also, the thing about Quad cpu's in a laptop...
I'd wait until the new architecture comes out with it as a standard for mobile. Right now, the thing puts out too much heat and uses too much juice. Going quad right now would even further gimp the 9260's already abysmal battery life.

 

Well what do you expect from that beast of a laptop with specs like in your sig?

 

Today Eurocom has announced the first quad core based Laptop, naming the D900C. Confusing stuff about a 95w processor, and yet naming the Q6600 and Q6700. The announcement does sound a bit confused, so nothing to get too excited about yet. But I'm sure their Salespeople will lean on Clevo for something close to the announcement to sell. And that still could be good.

They also mention the Q6x50 series, but don't go much into the FSB issues.

 

I'm skeptical about that claim, I've heard Eurocom likes to announce stuff way too prematurely and claims to have parts that aren't even on the market yet. We've had heard news about a quad core laptop, IMO, that's pretty big news; it seems like hopeful thinking in their part, and when the time comes when those laptops have to be delivered, we'll see if Eurocom can deliver. I'm gonna take their claims with a grain of salt, to be honest.

 

Granted, but somehow it seems better to have them talking than not at all!

 

The G0 stepping of the Q6600 is slightly cooler than the earlier steppings - 95 W TDP vs 105 W TDP. Still, if it had major instability issues before, I can't imagine it's much better now.

 

I think the maximum for the D901C is 75W. Still 20W too high for the Q6600. The most were going to be able to use is the X6900 3.2Ghz Core 2 Extreme. Not without someone getting inventive and coming up with a cooling unit for the back of the laptop. One that would give us the extra 75 TDP we need to max this puppy out! A nice liquid nitrogen unit would do it. Just need some insane modder to put it out! I'd buy it! QX6900 woo hoo!

 

are the details ready? i am curious to see if you run the quad core on one gpu will it be stable. the p4 3.6 in my older D900 chasis has a TDP of 120+ i believe and it never had problems due to heat, or any problem. i do not believe heat is an issue here as well. the new D900 chasis has even better cooling solutions.

 

Actually the Clevo D900T with the LGA775 Pentium 4's was infamous for overheating... it made people weary about the Clevo notebooks after that.

..Until the new Clevo M570U and M590K/KE's came out with heatpipe designs... then Clevo regained its reputation.

 

they had faulty motherboards and there should have been a recall when they first came out. i never had heat problems with mine and many others didn't either i remember reading on notebookforums.com (wonder what happened to that site?....). but, i did rma my first one because the mobo died within the 30 day return policy.

 

they are saying the q6600 can potentially reach 45 watts over specification. the 7950 gtx is 45 watts. simply avoid sli and the 45 watt savings can be applied to the q6600. both the x6800 and q6600 use the same vcore that the mobo can supply. the cpu fan will spin more and the notebook will be a little louder due to the added heat but probably still won't be as loud as the 9860-9890 was.

 

No, the computer is not one unit with a given thermal dissipation. Each component must not require a thermal dissipation above a given TDP. Choosing not to go SLI is not the answer. Read the rest of the thread.

 

LATEST UPDATE from Sager regarding Intel Quad Core support on Sager NP9260 (D901C)

"We wanted to provide our customers with an update on availability of quad core processors in our NP9260 (D901C) units. We do not currently use quad core processors because the wattage requirement (105 watts) makes the unit unstable. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=129932

We have known for some time that Intel would be launching its recently announced 95 watt version of the quad core processor. We have seen some claims that this lower wattage requirement will solve issues for usage in the Clevo D901C. While we are hopeful that the new processors will be a workable solution, we have not released any information about our plans because Clevo (our ODM) has not done any testing regarding the compatibility of the new processor in their labs. When that testing has been done, we will be able to provide more information. The reason we haven’t spoken to this issue is simply because we are committed to giving our customers accurate information based on fact.

We will provide further updates as soon as we have more information."

 

Latest News from Clevo:



Dear Customers:

We want to confirm for you that our testing confirms that the current 105 watt quad core processors are not usable in our laptops. Use of those processors will result in system malfunction and will void any and all warranties. We have been aware that Intel is introducing a 95 watt version of this processor, but we have not yet conducted any compatibility testing. Until such time as we complete such testing and confirm that the processor is compatible with our units, installation of this processor will void any and all warranties. We have not given any of our customers authorization to use either the 105 watt or 95 watt Quad Core processor and will not until we are able to confirm through testing that the processor is compatible with our units.
Any questions please contact with us. Thank you.

Best Regards

Allen Hsieh
Director of US sales Dept.
Clevo Co.

 

According to news.com this notebook can support quad core. see link: http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9761814-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Is this notebook the NP9269?

 

No the picture they have is of a D901C with the G0 stepping processor.

 

Any recomendations on where to buy the D901C with quad core?

Also any reviews / thread I should read regarding the D901C?

Thanks - Javier

 

At the moment, there is no official word from Clevo about the new lower powered Quad-core CP to work in the D900C/D901C.... for long-term stability and efficiency.

There may be a few resellers/vendors at the moment selling them with quad-core's.... but it might be a bad idea if the notebook is damaged due to long-term use of such a high-powered component without the correct cooling or power requirements met.

 

Please read post #41 above where Clevo makes their position pretty clear:

"...installation of this processor will void any and all warranties...."

 

It may void Clevo's warrenty, but if the reseller is offering it, and you go for it, I'd get the extended 3 year warranty. If they sell it to you and offer you the warranty then its up to them to fix it if it hoses up. And with a 3 year warranty you should be fine. If it doesn't fry your system within 3 years chances are it won't. Just IMO.

 

Why would anyone want to trade the manufacturer's warranty for a warranty from any reseller?

Clevo has already made it clear there are significant issues using this processor in the machine.

Be smart...wait for Clevo to certify it so you can rely on their warranty.

 

Because no matter what happens to my laptop, I'm never going to send it to Clevo. Their warrenty doesn't affect me. I purchased a 3 year warranty from the reseller. I know the terms and condition of the warranty. If they sell me equipment that fails within the warranty period through no misuse on my part they have to fix it.

If you buy quad core, get the 3 year reseller warranty is all I'm saying.

 

If the company sells you a machine with the processor, just be careful they don't have disclaimers that apply to just THAT machine...

I've never known any company that will warranty systems that are toasted because you are running them out of spec.. I also am not sure about a sager system's warranty, as I recall even the 3 year extended warranties are handled through the manufacturer.