P150EM / NP9150 1070 Upgrade Story + more!

Hey everyone,

So I found my good old P150EM / NP9150 lying around collecting dust recently and wanted to go back to a laptop after having a desktop for the last few years. I was going to get something newer but after finding out that the 1070 gtx could work, I thought it might be fun to see what a laptop from 2013 can do in 2020 if I put in a 1070 in it and also upgraded the CPU/RAM/NIC etc. I have played with it previously with a 970m so I will include those benchmark specs when it gets to it. So this is a journey to see what we can pull out of old an old gaming laptop.

Starting Specs:
CPU: 3610QM
GPU: 460 GTX (not even sure why it was in there, at some point had a 970m)
RAM: 16 GB Kingston HyperX 1866
GPU cooling: P370EM main GPU heatsink
CPU cooling: P170EM heatsink (copper fins)
PSU: 180w stock brick?
NIC: Realtech ? ?
Screen: 15.4" 1080p glossy screen ??
BIOS: PremaMod Bios 1.02.17PM v2 (Version 2.15.1227)

As you can see I had already upgraded the cooling, got faster RAM, got the PremaMod bios years ago for my 970m upgrade. The 970m was sold something like four years ago so the P150EM / NP9150 has just been sitting.

Current Specs:
CPU: 3920XM
GPU: 1070 GTX
RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX 1866
GPU cooling: P370EM main GPU heatsink + Foil + Thermal Grizzly Paste
CPU cooling: P170EM heatsink (copper fins) + Foil + Thermal Grizzly Liquid Metal
PSU: 230W ITEKIRO PSU with 5.5mm tip
NIC: Realtech ? ?
Screen: 15.4" 1080p glossy screen ??
BIOS: PremaMod Bios 1.02.17PM v2 (Version 2.15.1227)
VBIOS: Stock

Goal Specs:
CPU: 3920xm @ 4Ghz and not Hot!
GPU: 1070 GTX @ Stable and not Hot!
RAM: 16GB @ 2166 possible?
GPU cooling: Whatever keeps it cool
CPU cooling: Whatever keeps it cool
PSU: 230W or more? + Travel size PSU (just incase)
NIC: Research
Screen: Research
BIOS: PremaMod Bios 1.02.17PM v2 (Version 2.15.1227) or whatever works best
VBIOS: Stock? Increase TDP?

COST:

$83.98 (74.99 + 8.99 Shipping) 230W iTEKIRO PSU
$366 ($340 + Tax) MSI 1070 GTX
$~10? Thermal Grizzly thermal paste
$~10? Thermal Grizzly heat pads
$161 (150 + Tax) 3920XM

PSU upgrade:

I know I needed more than the 180w PSU and it used to be that you had to mod a more powerful PSU to use the 5.5mm tip that would work with our laptops. But I found on ebay:

"iTEKIRO 230W / 200W AC Adapter Charger for Sager Clevo Eluktronics Gaming (5.5mm Tip):

Specs:
Input: AC 100 ~ 240V / 50 ~ 60Hz, worldwide compatible
Output: 230W Max, 19V 12.11A / 19.5V 11.8A (Replacing Chicony, Delta 230W adapter)
Dimensions: 7.75" x 3.75" x 1.75"
Weight: 46.20 oz
MPN: EB.TAC230W015T4.SG1

So I was surprised to find a 230W PSU that would just be plug and play, but it worked! I don't know how to really test the PSU to see what kind of power draw it can actually do, but it will work for now.


GPU upgrade:

The real fun starts!

Bought my 1070 GTX on ebay also:

"MSI MS-1W0V1 NVIDIA GeForce 1070 8GB GDDR5 Video Graphics Card N17E-G2-A"


You do have to "mod" the chassis a little, it was really easy and the plastic is old and pretty brittle so it cut easily. This link shows roughly where you cut: https://www.eurocom.com/ec/faqs(272)ClevoP150EM_SagerNP9150_XMG_P502_PRO
I just took off the button cover, removed the old GPU and cut it.

**Only hick-up I had with GPU physical install was that I did not have the four screws that were correct to mount the GPU heatsink to the card. I was able to use the CPU heatsink screws - I took it off the CPU heatsink and they worked perfectly for holding the GPU in.

**I also let the MXM card just bend a little ontop of the blue resistor** do at your own risk! Also boxed in red in the pic.

After removing the plastic it was just the same as installing/replacing any other MXM GPU, it popped right in, put some new thermal paste on it and it was good to go.

Remember I am using the P370EM main GPU heatsink, which has thicker copper pipes so where there is the red box I actually had to cut out a bit of the plastic for it to fit well. I didn't need to use a shim, or do any mod to the heatsink. It worked just as well as it did on my 970m.

**With my PremaMod bios the VGA slot said "empty", so that is okay!




Driver Install:
1. Download and Install Disply Driver Unistaller
2. Go: https://premamod.wordpress.com/2017/08/15/j95-nvidia-inf/ - download a driver + modded .inf driver. I did version 436.15 WIN10 -64bit + MSHybrid/Optimus NV_DISPI.inf file
3. Click SHIFT + Restart - startup in safe mode, Number "4"
4. In safe mode uninstall previous display driver
5. SHIFT + Restart again to start with driver signature off, Number "7"
6. Extract driver files, replace the 5 inf + 1 cfg files from modded version into the extracted driver files.
7. Clean install the new drivers.
8. Good to go!!

GPU Results:

Room Temp was around 74F or 23C ambient for most.

Mostly playing with core clock - I just randomly input some memory overclock that seemed to work but didn't spend time really tuning or pushing it.


Stock:
TimeSpy Overall: 4943 / Graphics: 5431 / CPU 3278

So I found out that the frequency was all over and not stable.
With MSI afterburner you can adjust the frequency at specific voltages and can use it undervolt it while still overclocking the frequency the at that specific voltage. Ctrl + F allows you to see the volt/freq curve. SHIFT + Click allows you to drag the entire curve any way you want. Ctrl + Click allows you to adjust the curve while the other end stays still. Or when you have clicked on a volt/freq point you can click "L" to lock it at that volt for testing. If you want to undervolt, find the voltage you want and make all the dots after it in a strait line so the GPU can't go to a higher voltage.

Generic Overclock +208 core + 300 Mem
TimeSpy Overall: 5278 / Graphics 5992 / CPU 3152
** I couldn't break 6k for graphics no matter how hard I tried!! But this wasn't stable enough for normal use and the frequency/Volts was also unstable.

@ 0.7000 V got 1468 Mhz stable + 600 Mem
FireStrike Overall: 10584 / Graphics 14784 / CPU 7878
TimeSpy Overall: 4453 / Graphics 4820 / CPU 3113
**This was my "MAX-Q" undervolt overclock, had no problem with the TimeSpy stress test or Gaming, temps were in the mid ~70C, but with stock fansettings and not using the FN+9 max fan setting. Pretty decent!

UPDATE: @ 0.700 V 1430Mhz + 300 Mem
Firestrike Overall: 10762 / Graphics 15727 / 7630
**Realized there was something with my Firestrike graphics score, it was really low. It got 1k higher at lower Mhz? Maybe it wasn't as stable as I thought? Not sure. CPU score dropped though.




@ 0.7250 V got 1506 Mhz stable + 450 Mem
Firestrike Overall: 10971 / Graphics 16337 / CPU 7903
TimeSpy Overall: 4876 / Graphics 5481 / CPU 3000
**This is my attempt at stockish 1070 laptop power @ .7250 V which seems to be the "comfortable" limit of the cooling system. If I use stock fan settings it got up to 86C on the TimeSpy stress test after ~ 7min before I did max fan settings which brought it down to a stable 77C . So this setting will work perfectly for normal gaming/use as long as I use max fan settings. The scores seem a little weird because from what I can see from notebookcheck for 1070 TimeSpy graphics scores I am around average for a 1070 (around ~5400), but the Firestrike graphics score is around 1k lower than average (avg ~ 17200) . Not sure how that works.

@ 0.7500 V got 1544 Mhz + 600 Mem - still tweaking with this voltage
Firestrike Overall: 11246 / Graphics 16787 / CPU 7920
TimeSpay Overall: 5053 / Graphics 5646 / CPU 3170
** Have yet to do real stability and games tests at this freq/voltage to see how stable and what temps it gets for long term use. In general not too bad I guess.

UPDATE: @ 0.7500 V 1531 Mhz + 450 Mem
Firestrike Overall: 11288 / Graphics 16720 / CPU 7912




UPDATE @ .7500 V 1531 Mhz + 450 Mem & 3920XM @ 43/42/41/41
Firestrike Overall 13164 / Graphics 17040 / CPU 10225



I think I found the answer! The 3610QM was just a bottleneck for the 1070 even in the firestrike GPU tests!


@ 0.775 V got 1556 Mhz + 600 Mem
FireStrike Overall: 11306 / Graphics 16918 / CPU 7952
TimeSpy Overall: 5046 / Graphics 5664 / CPU 3119
** More stable than I anticipated but needs more testing - especially thermals and stability for longer use and games. Interesting to see how stability makes a difference in the FireStrike GPU score: 1556Mhz got 16918 points and 1607Mhz got 17047 points - you would expect a lot more of a score difference if the 1607Mhz was stable. Especially if you consider that at .7500 V and 1544Mhz - just a 12Mhz difference there was a graphics score difference of ~200 points. So 1556Mhz to 1607Mhz you would definately expect to see more of an increase.

@ 0.7750 V got 1607 Mhz + 300 Mem
FireStrike Overall: 11509 / Graphics 17047 / CPU 7935
**Stable enough for a benchmark run but not for use, but still was fun.

@ 0.7750 V got 1620 + 600 Mem
TimeSpy Overall: 5225 / Graphics 5897 / CPU 3175
FireStrike: crashed
** Mhz couldn't stay stable at 1620 for TimeSpy's 2nd graphics test


I don't get it! The scores are not even consistent based on increase in clock, I am not sure what is up! Sure... lack of stability may have something to do with it, but whatever!

^^Current self answer: Seems like FireStrike is impacted by CPU even in GPU benchmarks and the difference between the 3610QM and 1070 was big enough that the 3610QM has become a bottleneck for the 1070 - even at the undervolting/overclocking specs

QUESTION: What are other people getting for their frequencies at different voltages? I am curious how mine compares to other 1070 users - especially those who have P150EM/SM P170EM/SM etc.


GPU Power Problems:

1. Power throttling, it looks like it is having a real hard time keeping a decent frequency at .7810 and above. The frequencies are really at a diminishing returns at that point. Not sure if I can flash a higher TDP vbios to get it stable at those voltages. The annoying thing is that if I do a general "core" offset, like +200 it can pass a benchmark and work, but if I look at the actual frequencies it is not stable at all and is just bouncing between different voltages continually. It seems most efficient and stable at .7000 V at 1468 Mhz. One way I test for stability is with Firestrike graphics 1 test on loop, if I look at GPU usage it tends to fluctuate heavily if not as stable, but with .7000 V at 1468 Mhz GPU usage stays a solid 98% - 99% all the way through. Firestrike seems to be sensitive to the frequency changes while TimeSpy doesn't have as much of a problem with it.

2. Thermals - at this point it honestly isn't too much of a problem since I can't get a stable frequency at a higher voltage. It would be super cool if I could get ~1650Mhz to 1700 Mhz stable but at this point it seems difficult, even if I got a higher TDP that allows for stable frequency at I know for sure I will have to figure out how to get better thermals to keep that in check.


**** That is all for now! ****

 

You took the screws from the CPU? How did you screw in the CPU heatsink then? I am guessing the 460M was a hold over from a get the machine going again after a breakage.

 

I still had an old P150HM for parts and the P150HM CPU cooler had the aluminum fins so I just used those.

Ya I think the 460M came from the P150HM originally but at some point that had been switched out.

 

Ah useful to have a spares machine

 

Resistor, or capacitor?
Its not a good idea to leave the card bent, because sooner or later you will have a dead card due to broken solder joints on either the core or some of the VRAM chips, better to relocate the cap.

 

Do not bend the card over the capacitor on the motherboard! That will kill the card!

The capacitor on the motherboard should be removed and replaced with something lower profile. That or put small shims under the card's screw points to make it not sit as low when installed. It's critical that the card never has pressure trying to bend it, especially when it's warm from being used. If the shims are uneven though you just make the problem worse, so again best to just replace the cap.

 

Good point on the broken solder joints, I wasn't thinking of that with it heating up and cooling down over time. For temporary testing I doubt it will be a problem.

And yes! capacitor!

You are absolutely right that the right way would be to replace it with a lower profile capacitor. The shims I would be hesitant on just because it it could change the angle at which the heatsink would come in contact with the GPU die for cooling which could also make things worse.

 

The heat will likely put a permanent bend on the PCB over time and cause physical stress as above.

 

Hmm I will take it apart when I try some Liquid metal and see how much the bend actually is.

I might just keep it bent if it is only a little to test for those that don't have the soldering skills/time/equipment to move the capacitor. See how long it last before it starts to die on me.

 

CPU Baseline

The CPU I am running is the mighty - that is correct! the mighty:

i7- 3610QM

It has a Base frequency of 2.30Ghz and Max Turbo Frequency of 3.30Ghz.

Stock scores for CB15 and XTU:

CB15: 487 cb
XTU: 646 Marks

 

It's a stress over time thing with heat cycling.

 

Ah ya Meaker the statement I made wasn't really clear. I wasn't implying that using liquid metal to help temps would stop it from bending. It was that the next time I will have it apart would be to redo the thermal paste. At the same time I would be able to check how bad the bend is. I understand that it is the heat cycling that over time will result in a permanent bend - even if temps are great.

 

Also bends can interfere with your core contact so just check it's good enough for liquid metal.

 

So this is what we are looking at with the bend:






It honestly isn't that bad.

The contact between the GPU die and heatsink has been the most suprising for me because of how well it holds temps on the 1070. With the 970m previously when I was just overclocking to run it through a benchmark and get a higher score, temps always got crazy quick so it was never usable for practical use - like gaming. But now the 1070 holds a very solid temp and just slowly climbs. So that has been very good.

 

3920XM !!! Woot Woot!

Stock it has a Base frequency of 2.90Ghz and Max Turbo Frequency of 3.80Ghz.

Stock scores for CB15 and XTU:

CB15: 623 cb
XTU: 772 Marks




Liquid Metal:

Some protection around the die and liquid metal applied! This is my first time trying Liquid Metal. I got the Thermal Grizzly one.



Overclock:

I am fairly new to any kind of in-depth CPU overclocking so I just opened Intel XTU and played with the multiplier a little.

One Core: x 43 (which is: 4.29Ghz)
Two Cores: x 42 (which is: 4.19Ghz)
Three Cores: x 41 (which is: 4.09Ghz)
Four Cores: x 41 (which is: 4.09Ghz)

To my surprise it didn't have any issues at all.

CB15: 719cb



I tried x44 next and it clashed right away. But without increasing voltage or doing any kind of real tuning - just increasing the multipliers, I was impressed that it was able to do 43/42/41/41 so easily.

According to Afterburner it was pulling ~71W!

Problem/Limitation:
So the CPU - 3920XM, has the opposite issue of the GPU - 1070.

The 1070 has no problem staying cool for a few benchmarks - even if over a longer period it gets to a temp that I would prefer to stay under. The issue is power - it doesn't get enough power to run at higher freqs or voltages.
The 3920XM ha no problem drawing power and potentially hitting some higher freqs. The issue is cooling - it warms up and hits uncomfortable temps within the benchmark. The stock P170EM copper cooler + Liquid Metal have no problem holding it cool for stock freqs, ~ still gets into the 80C. But even with just playing with the multiplier to 43/42/41/41 and not increasing voltage it keeps climbing into the high 90C. I don't think there is another better heatsink for the P150EM so I might be kind of stuck with not being able to really push the 3920XM at all.

 

Remove that cap and replace it by a radial leaded one or you will break your GPU faster than you think.
Consider overclocking the RAM as well, at least 1866Mhz and tight timings will help.

 

Performance Conclusion:

@.7810 V with 1646Mhz and +450 Mem - it hit the power cap so it dropped a few times to 1619/1633Mhz , but still completed the benchmark. CPU was still at 43/42/41/41 :

TimeSpy Overall: 5337 Graphics: 5742 CPU CPU: 3813




The Point of it all:

Part of the reason for all this was to actually see how close an "average" enthusiast user could get to the "Gaming laptop (2020)" set by 3DMARK - TimeSpy.

The "Gaming laptop (2020)" standard:
Overall Score: 5730
Specs:

• Intel Core i7-9750H Processor
• NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (Notebook)
• ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. GU502GV

Versus a laptop that came out in 2012 with a Sandy Bridge CPU. It had support for Ivy Bridge, but at launch Intel had yet to launch the Ivy Bridge CPUs.

My Upgradable laptop (2012):
Overall score: 5337
Specs:

• Intel Core i7-3920XM Processor
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (Notebook)
• SAGER NP9150/ CLEVO P150EM

Both are ~15" laptops. If we just compare overall score difference, a laptop from 2012 was able to get within ~7% of a gaming laptop in 2020. Not bad at I say!! The cost of the GPU + CPU + PUS + misc ~ $631. Not bad, Not bad. That is why having upgradeable mxm (gpu)/cpu/RAM/HDD/etc standard slots are so great!! I can promise you that the "Gaming laptop (2020)" cannot get as close to the "Gaming laptop (2028)" as our good old Sager/Clevo laptop has gotten to the "Gaming laptop (2020)" standard. Thanks to Prema and everyone else that has offered so much support, you guys are legends!!

**I understand that if we ran a 20 game benchmark comparison the difference would be greater, as well as the difference in stability/ temps etc. So it is a limited comparison, but I still find it to be a fun comparison. Besides with a bit more tinkering, if we talk only about the TimeSpy Overall Score - the 3920xm can definitely be pushed further, as well as the 1070 with a higher power bios - so take it with a grain of salt, and as a just for fun comparison!

 

I might have to! I have never really soldered anything so I don't have the tools or expertise. But we can see. Do you have a part number / info for a "radial leaded" capacitor that would work? Thanks!

 

Yeah that's making me cringe lol.

 

Ya... well I guess I gotta learn to solder- or pick up a 1060 instead

 

Or get a shop to do it, I did that back in the old 7738G days.

 

There is a 100% chance that bending will kill the card in the next few months. For now loosen the thumbscrews. The card can run even if it's tilted up a ways. You can put a piece of foam under the card to keep it from flopping around.

 

It could also warp the heatsink so it wont sit flat anymore if you do get it fixed.

 

Yup, with the other "whitebooks" that were great for messing with!

Crap, man I am really thinking then I might as well give in and go for something newer. I just am not sure what laptop has a standard mxm slot anymore with clevo also doing their larger mxm cards. I'll search a bit, maybe go for something older but not as old as this one. We will see.

Maybe the P150sm/P157sm? A ~15" screen with MXM/socket cpu/RAM/HDD etc. Hmmmm