P750ZM vs P650SG: comparing fan noise and thermals at idle & load?

I'm thinking of taking the plunge on a P750ZM (with Xeon CPU and 980m) for desktop replacement, but wondering if anyone can say how the noise compares to the smaller P650SG? I've read that the fan runs constantly at idle so I'm interested in both idle and load fan noise (by load I mean gaming, not synthetic benchmarks or xtu stress test). Reviews suggest that there's only ~2db difference between the two, but they don't comment on the kind of noise (high pitched, whistling, etc).

I'm also curious how keyboard heat compares for both since I've read the ZM can get a little toasty under the keyboard.

FWIW, I briefly owned a P650SE but wasn't too impressed with the fan noise. Allegedly the SG is a bit better, but it looks like the same cooling system as the SE. Presently I have a Razer Blade Pro (2014) and I've disabled turbo because the fan noise is so annoying at load, plus it gets very warm under palm rests and keyboard during extended gaming.

 

While I do not have numbers to compare for those exact two models. We've I've noticed is the thicker the computer the quieter it is. There are usually biggers fans on those models so they do not have to spin as fast to move as much air as thinner ones.

 

As you mentioned, there is a general 2dB(A) difference at idle (minimum) between the P65xSx and the P751ZM chassis, the former being quieter. But the "Average Idle" figures are in the ZM's favour so it's really not going to be noticable unless you have both chassis side by side and even then it will be difficult to tell.

In 3D Mark, which would be more comparable to gaming noise than Furmark and Prime95, there is a similar difference - again slightly in the favour of the P751ZM.

The fans in the P751ZM are a bit thicker and so as you suggested they do make a different sound to the thinner fans in the P65...a lower pitch.

The SG is a little quieter than the SE, basically the same cooling system but slightly thicker like the chassis. There really isn't a huge difference between the SE and SG in terms of noise - on paper there isn't much in it either. You also have software fan control with each chassis and the GPU option in a ZM will have an impact on noise levels as well.

I know it's important to you but my advice would be not to make a decision between the SE/SG and ZM based on noise, they have many other factors to take into account - but in general the ZM would have a lower pitch to the fan noise.

EDIT - I should add to this that the notebookcheck figures for the XMG P505 that I believe you were refering to used different hardware:

- the P505 P650SE had a 4870HQ CPU + 970M of course

- the P505 P651SG had a 4710HQ + 980M

Though both rated by Intel as 47W, this just means that they are in the same category and as such the 4710HQ will still run a bit cooler. The difference between the idle dB(A) won't likely be due to a different fan speed because the 4870HQ is running 4C warmer or something, but it's something else to consider - we have a thicker chassis with a less powerful CPU which is 2dB(A) at most quieter.

 

Hutsady and XMG, thanks for your replies! There are lots of other factors going into my decision, of course, but an objective comparison between the two along these lines is harder to find - especially given that the reviews (here and elsewhere) all tend to vary in their configurations. I've found very useful information about each laptop individually in the review threads and owners' lounges, and I was hoping that someone on this forum might be able to volunteer their direct experience with both laptops.

FWIW, I'm not too concerned about portability as I have a surface pro 3 that goes with me to work, so this would really be for desktop replacement and I need it to last at least 3 years (hence the 980m).

 

Even a couple years later, the quieter PC is the one thing I really miss about having a desktop. I read a lot of posts about laptops being quiet, but it never quite lands in same range as a desktop. I don't know that you'll ever find a quiet enough laptop that has the speed to be a true desktop replacement. That being said, I don't plan to go back to desktops in the immediate future.

I will be keeping tabs on this thread to see if you find the holy grail.

The information about (direct comparison between models) is wonderful as has been on my list of questions as well.

 

Well I decided to go big and just put in an order for an XMG U705. I'll let you know if it has holy grail-like properties.

 

I've owned both the P750ZM and the P650SE. You can find the link to the review for the latter in my sig.

The keyboard temps for the 650SE are better, both while idle and under load.

At idle, the temps can reach around 38C on the 750ZM, and 40-41C under load. The 650SE keeps the keyboard in the low 30s/high 20s idle, and barely breaks the upper 30s under load.

When idle they are about the same in terms of noise levels, though I found the 650SE a bit quieter. Teh 650SE fans simply are off when idle, while the 750ZM fans still run, due to the desktop CPU and lack of iGPU. I don't have an instrument to measure it objectively, so I can't give you actual measurements. This make sense, since the fan blades are smaller and have to spin faster.

My 750ZM has a Xeon and a 970M.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you guys getting the Xeon instead of the i7 4790k? It has 4 cores and is locked.

When I had my P570WM, I went with a Xeon since in my case, the Xeon had 10 cores instead of six cores from the 4960x. It helped in the software I used since it took advantage of all 10 cores.

 

Originally I wanted the xeon because they're cheaper, you don't need the igpu, and they have very close performance to the i7 4790. Some say they run cooler, too. I'm not planning to overclock, in any case. However, I actually got a different cpu as it seems that g-sync is not supported with a xeon processor. Can always upgrade the cpu later.

 

Its better to get the Core i vs Xeon, Xeon are more for workstation use. It will still work but its kinda like getting a Quadro instead of a GeForce. The choice should be on your intended use to get the best performance.

 

at the risk of veering off topic, I don't think that's the case though I'd be interested to see any documentation to that effect. I've used Xeons in my desktop pc in the past and they are not essentially different from the consumer cpus. My sense is that their performance doesn't vary nearly as much as regular consumer CPUs, as well. Still have fond memories of my Wolfdale E3110 (which was exactly the same as an E8400).

 

I'm sorry but this is just flat-out wrong

 

How so, I'll be the first to admit I'm never always right and always love learning new stuff.

 

The clock ranges/TDP can vary from chip to chip. The major issue with the xeons are they are totally locked so no tweaking. Idle power is quite important in servers these days so they do tend to have that all enabled.

 

Well there is a difference between the Xeons and Core I series, perhaps not the ones Hutsady listed though.

The primary obvious differences between the Xeon (e.g 1241v3) and i7 (e.g 4790) is the often lack of IGP in the Xeon and support for ECC memory. Not including the 100mhz speed bump.
That being said, you can get Haswell socket1150 Xeon chips with IGP included. EG, the Xeon 1245v3 is the GPU added variant. The ECC requirement in a laptop is almost non-effective, but I imagine there are some edge cases where it may be needed.

However, the one thing that not many people know, is the Xeon chips do NOT have a C7 idle state. Granted, this means nothing to the P750ZM since C7 cannot be reached if PEG (external graphics) is used. If Clevo were to use a switchable graphics system (ie MUX that is still used in the big MSI monsters) then this could absolutely affect runtimes.

Also worth noting, that it appears that with Broadwell and onwards, the small socket (ie quad-core consumer socket) Xeon CPUs will all come with IGP regardless, thus reducing the choice to basically ECC on/off.

I'm more interested with what Clevo do with the new Lower Power small socket Broadwells. IE The Xeon E3-1265L LGA1150 is listed at a base of 2.3ghz (lower than current MQ/HQ) but turbos to 3.3ghz and a 35W TDP (laptop range). That low base clock could have some serious implications to idle battery usage which the P750ZM/P770ZM really suffer in.

 

Your i7 vs. Xeon and GeForce vs. Quadro analogy is flawed because an i7 and comparable Xeon will perform identically while the same cannot be said of a GeForce and Quadro.

Let's take i7-4770K and Xeon E3-1241 v3 for example. Both LGA 1150 22nm Haswell, both 3.5-3.9 GHz, both 4 core/8 thread, both 8MB L3 cache, both support same instruction sets, etc. Now differences. i7 has an unlocked multi; Xeon is locked. i7 has an iGPU; Xeon does not. i7 doesn't support ECC memory; Xeon does. i7 costs $340; Xeon costs $260. So if you don't overclock and don't need iGPU (moot point in this laptop), Xeon is clearly the better buy as you're paying only $20 more than i5-4690K for Hyper-Threading and larger cache.

That is just one example though, you could take i7 and Xeon on other platforms like LGA 2011 (where neither has iGPU) and corroborate the points.

Now GeForce vs. Quadro. Quadros have ECC and more VRAM, different drivers and firmware tuned for optimal performance in OpenGL and pro apps not D3D and games, and FP64 CUDA cores enabled in manufacturing which are disabled in most GeForces. So Quadros will run circles around GeForces and perform many times faster and with greater precision in optimized pro apps.

 

Well the current mobile quadros have no extra FP64 resources to unlock.

 

This question was answered elsewhere in the batman thread. The performance of a Xeon and a non-OCd 4790k is about the same in games.

The Xeon doesn't have an iGPU, and therefore runs cooler (80w vs 88w). Xeons are business-grade, so they tend to be better binned.

Essentially, unless you plan to OC, there is really no reason to NOT get a Xeon in the Batman. Well, I guess G-Sync might be another reason.

The idea that the performance of the Xeon is less than an i7 is false, and has been pretty much disproved in tests.

 

Thanks for all the info, definitely helpful and informative.

 

There's actually more LGA 1150 Xeon processor variants which have iGPU right?
That changes entirely with Broadwell/Skylake as all will include iGPU.

 

Yes some of them do, I was only comparing those 2 specific CPUs

 

Yes since the IGP can be used to accelerate certain functions they will want to build up the install base of chips with the IGP enabled.