P775TM AND P870TM advice

Hi

I'm new to this forum

Currently looking to replace my trusty Desktop with a DTR solution and looking at Clevo Options

I'm looking at P775TM and P870TM from two re-sellers

Obsidian PC : https://www.obsidian-pc.com/en/ - P775TM & P870TM models
Schenker : https://www.mysn.de/ - XMG Ultra 17 & XMG Zenith 17 models

I have some questions

A. Has anyone got some experiences with these re-sellers or the models they can share?
B. Typically are Clevo laptops very reliable? I've not owned one since the D900T ... which was a while back and didn't last long.
C. What are the temperature and sound levels like with Clevo's?
D. Do delidded CPUs make a big difference, as both re-sellers offer it.
E. The graphics part uses MXM 3.0b, but does having a removable GPU really valuable for a laptop?
F. I'm considering using WQHD screen rather than 4K, is this practically useful for 17" display?

 

A - No experience
B - My Clevo has been reliable but I have had my for less than a year (6 or 7 months) so for the longterm I can't really comment yet.
C - 6700k with a 4.4GHz Overclock hitting around 70-75C under Load while gaming with fans on max. I can't hear the fans when using the system as I usually have headphones on, I don't find the fans that loud and I am able to fall asleep next to my computer running on my desk with fans of Max.
D - Delided CPUs are basically a must have
E - A removable graphics card adds value to the laptop as you are able to upgrade the graphics card in the future, for example the P870DM came stock with 970M/980M SLI but you can swap the cards to a 1060, 1070 SLI and now even a 1080 with a little bit of work (the newer models don't require this as they support the 10 series cards for the start). Basically having a removable GPU allows you to A. Replace a dead gpu without having to get a whole new motherboard like BGA Units B - Supports Upgrading Down the Road for when your GPU is starting to no longer run the games at the settings you want.
F - I recently swapped my 60Hz 1080p Panel to a 120Hz 1440p Panel and with the 17" display I have no issues reading smaller font text on the screen (size 11)

From a P870DM-G Owner.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

I take it you are in Europe as you are looking at European resellers. In that case, you should also consider Clevocenter and Dreammachines as both of those offer the Prema BIOS. Most North American resellers will also ship to Europe though, so you have some more options there as well with HIDEvolution et cetera. I'd only suggest you buy a Clevo if you get the Prema BIOS with it, since you have access to proper overclocking controls, voltage, current, power settings and some firmware which won't throttle like the stock Clevo one. This is a must if you want to get the most out of your machine.

Both the P775 and P870 chassis' are a fairly mature by now, so they should be pretty reliable.

In general, I believe the P775 runs a bit hotter than the P870. Gaming temps on both should be fine even out of the box, but if you really push the CPU you will hit the 90s. Delidding the CPU and repasting it with some decent thermal paste mostly resolves that issue, so i'd highly recommend picking that option if you buy one.

One last thing: ask yourself if you actually need a laptop, since you came from a desktop. You are going to make some sacrifices by doing that - the costs involved are higher, you have less options for upgrades in the future and cooling is more limited (for the CPU especially). Don't get me wrong, I love my Clevo P870DM-G, but had I the choice between this and a desktop for the same price i'd go with the latter.

Out of interest, what voltage are you using for 4.4GHz?

 

Running adaptive - 70mv

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

Seems a little warm, I run mine at 4.5GHz with only a 10mv undervolt and get the same temps without maxing the fans. I could just have lower ambients though.

 

Also you could have a lower starting voltage.

 

Yeah I agree, however needs must. I'm starting a family so my study now belongs to someone else

 

Tried 4.5GHz at - 10mv offset and it does current limit throttling

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

Mine will do 4.6GHz with stock voltage and no current limit throttling (unless i run Prime95 smallFFTs which will cause power limit throttling), I start getting issues at 4.7 however. Seems I got pretty lucky buying the cheapest used 6700K I could find on eBay .

In that case, the Clevo DTRs are the next best thing from a desktop.

 

Would you recommending using laptop cooling mate in addition to delidding and repasting? I'm a little skeptical about them, but a fully tricked out Clevo is quite an investment not to look after it.

 

Only 1 good laptop cooler on the market that's the cooler master U3 you can modify it to get rid of the junk stock fans and get 3 desktop grade fans for it to help keep your Temps down

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

The best pads are modded with high pressure 120-140mm corsair style fans and cut open holes so they can breathe.

 

Hi, is there a company that sells these modded cooling pads?

 

They Are Actually Pretty easy to make here are a few examples of replacing the stock wimpy fans on the Cooler
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/modding-my-cooler-master-notepal-u3-plus.809628/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/another-coolermaster-u3-bottom-tray-mod.789298/
https://imgur.com/a/7RmEM
https://imgur.com/a/iZ192
https://imgur.com/a/IGq3C

I don't know if any retailer actually sells modded coolers, but you may be able to pick one up off a fellow user here on NBR? However they are Pretty easy to make.

 

Go for a GT 75 titan from MSI instead, Asus Chimera or MSI WT 75.
The clevos are absolute trash, unoptimized garbage with mediocre reused parts from previous models where the VRM's will basicially give up if you actually plan on doing CPU intensive stuff for a longer period. Do yourself a favor and stay far away from unlocked CPU's in notebooks such as P870TM and P775TM.

Note: even if you should go for an I9, please don't overclock it to high and run it like that, since that also, will likely blow your VRM's up after a while. Try to aim for the best undervolt on stock turbo.

 

And here we go again. Do you have access to the technical data sheet for the P870 motherboard and parts? Or have you opened up one and read tech specs for the components as @Khenglish or @Mr. Fox have done?
why continue post new wrong info? OP read... http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...scussion-thread.794965/page-405#post-10547788

Of course you shouldn't overclock any MSI or the Asus model. The cpu cook and boil already with stock clock speed.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/bga-venting-thread.798775/page-196#post-10775771

For OP
@Ming Fung Go for P870TM. You can't get hold on better laptop than this. If you can, get it from an @Prema partner who can offer PremaMod firmware.

 

Strongly disagree Having a full grade desktop cpu in a notebook allows for Upgrades to CPUs in the same Socket with a simple bios update/mod. Clevo Absolute Trash? Unoptimized garbage - Stock Bios does not allow for much overclocking but you can easily get an unlocked bios if you are looking at overclocking. With the GT75 with an i9 your saying to stick with stock clocks and an undervolt, the clevo can easily do that stock bios.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

@Ming Fung - I'd listen to the people that actually own a P870 and like them. The overwhelming majority of the people that own one are sold on it being an awesome product. Most of the critics (not all) have never owned or even touched one. The bottom line is, if you want the best performance available in a laptop, this is the only machine capable of delivering performance that even closely resembles a desktop.

The Clevo P870 is the only high performance laptop I can recommend to anyone with a clear conscience. No laptop is perfect. In general terms, I am a laptop hater. All laptops have crappy firmware and leave something to be desired in the way they ship from the factory, so if there is any way possible, buy only from a @Prema partner shop. If that's not possible, the Clevo P870 is still the least of all evils compared to the alternatives. The best advice is to not purchase any high performance laptop and build a desktop. Not everyone can do that, and some people need desktop performance in a mobile package, so this is the only thing close enough.

If you want really good temps, you will need to delid the 6700K, 7700K or 8700K even if you are using it in a liquid cooled desktop. They run too hot on any platform with the stock paste garbage and no delid.

 

I just bought a P775TM from Obsidian PC recently. In general I'm very pleased with it, especially given the price that I paid. Here are my answers to your questions:

A. Obsidian PC is a good reseller, I would recommend them. However in my case it took longer than expected to get my order and also I had to do a RMA due to a ram issue. Their warranty is good so I would be fairly confident at least in the short term (within 2 years).

B. I think Clevo laptops are about as reliable as everything else. A look inside my P775TM shows that it's well-built, and the exterior feels very sturdy as well. The real thing looked a lot better and well-built than in the pictures. The nice thing is that most parts are replaceable so it's probably more reliable than BGA laptops.

C. I get about 82C on my CPU when maxed out at 4.3ghz on 6 cores. For this basically the CPU fan is on max, which is loud, but under normal use the laptop is fairly quiet. I assume that in Windows you'd be able to tune the fan curves better to have it absolutely quiet under normal use. The GPU is much hotter at about 90C maxed out. I have the GTX 1080, and in the Heaven benchmark it performs equal to the GTX 1080 in my desktop so it doesn't throttle or anything, but it is like 25C warmer than my desktop's card. I've read that the GPU runs MUCH cooler in the P870TM so if you play games then in my opinion it's the better option. One more thing to note is that I run Linux on my laptop so I don't have the software tools to do many things, so it's possible that there are other ways to get the GPU to run cooler in Windows.

D. Delidded CPUs are essential. Mine is delidded and repasted with liquid metal. I can imagine that the CPU would easily reach 100C with stock paste.

E. It's possible to upgrade a removable GPU, but it seems to take some effort and knowledge. I personally wouldn't do it .

F. I would prefer a WQHD screen over 4K or FHD. In my case only the 4K and FHD were available so I went with 4K. The color on the 4K screen is really a lot better than all of the FHD screens that I've seen, it's also better than my WQHD external monitor. However, 60hz screens are probably not great for gaming, so if that's what you most often do then faster screens probably outweigh higher resolution.

One thing to note is that when you don't get a Prema Bios with your laptop the overclocking capabilities can be limited. My laptop seems to power throttle a bit when I run it hard on max, so I can't really overclock it beyond 4.3ghz on all cores even though my Bios is unlocked and there's still some thermal room to do so. If you cannot overclock the CPU then performance would be a lot more similar to one of the i9 BGA laptops, and then the decision probably comes down to a combination of price, aesthetics, and accessibility.

 

I agree with the first part of your statement on people commenting on things without actually owning or using them. I used stock Bios on my P870DM-G for about 3 or 4 months and was able to overclock to 4.3GHz with an undervolt applied via Throttlestop. I agree the Stock Clevo Bios is junk but that's because I have used it. When Danish brang up the MSI I can't comment on its bios or overclocking potential as I have never owned that system or any MSI Product for that matter and have very little knowledge on it. For the second paragraph I agree every laptop does have certain flaws and can agree the P870 is definitely the closest thing to a desktop your going to get with desktop grade cpu, desktop grade gpu (SLI Depending on GPU) 1080p, 120Hz 1440p, and 4K Panels every standard desktop type of component is removable like cpu, storage, ram, gpus etc.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

Yup. Totally understand what you're saying and it makes sense. I'm basically using mine stock as well. But, my situation doesn't count because it is not a production machine and wasn't ever designed or intended to use the parts that are in it. That said, running stock it is still better than the BGA alternatives with an overclock.

The bottom line is, stock BIOS or @Prema BIOS, there are not many P870 owners with major regrets. There are a few, but not to the extent we see with most other brands/models. That's not to say there are not some that are happy with lesser products. They have lower expectations for performance, and/or a hang-up about big/heavy laptops. Those folks need not apply. There are not any truly good options available for them unless they are willing to settle for crappy performance. True awesomeness doesn't come in small packages. If they're happy, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. I know I would not be, but that's me.

It's actually quite easy. No more difficult than replacing a CPU or a WiFi module. The only part that can be tricky is compatibility with a system not designed for the upgrade part. That has become unnecessarily complex thanks to recent changes in the industry, but it is merely a matter of doing the research beforehand to find out what has been proven to work before spending any money. Charting unfamiliar waters is intimidating for most. But, the act of removing and replacing is pretty straightforward when compatibility is not in question. The best reason for purchasing a product with modular components is being able to service it for a lot less money rather than throwing away a motherboard, CPU and/or GPU when only one of those parts needs replacement. If and when upgrades are possible, that's just icing on the cake.

 

The author of the topic should not listen to the opinion of offended forum participants, who have problems with the facts that confirm their words.

 

To revive the thread a little, I can comment on Sager/Clevo's reliability. I purchased my NP 8170 / P170 HM about 8 years ago and I've used and abused it almost every day since. This machine has literally been a part of my life for the better part of a decade. It has been my work laptop, school laptop, home laptop, and everything in between. Lately I've been using it to control my CNC router.

This isn't a laptop I've kept on a desk and wiped the dust off occasionally. It's flown with me to many states and I've transported it in a car more miles over the last 8 years than some of you will travel in a lifetime. It's survived years of my wife's damn cat sitting on the keyboard every time I walk away from it. It survived my dog as a puppy chewing on it and chewing on the power cord where it connects to the machine. It survived my puppy turning into a 70 lb dog and jumping on it, stepping on it, and knocking it off the couch more times than I can count. Since then I've had kids. It's survived my toddler knocking it off the table, knocking it off the couch, knocking it off the counter... basically just knocking it off every damn thing a kid can knock crap off of. He's been caught standing on the laptop while closed, standing on the laptop while open, spilling milk on it, jumping off the arm of the couch on me while I have it in my lap, and using it as a parking lot for his toys.
Any cord that's been connected to this machine at some point has been accidentally jerked, tugged, or yanked out with more force than is needed to pull start a lawnmower.

I've vacuumed enough dog hair, cat hair, and sawdust out of this machine over the years to fill up a garbage bag. I've eaten and spilled food on the keyboard, I've cleaned milk splatters off the screen. The last few years, my go to tools for cleaning this laptop has been a shop-vac and my air compressor. I don't waste time on a little can of duster. I'll take the machine out to the garage, open up the bottom and blast out every nook and cranny with 60 psi of compressed air.

I've used mine stock since I bought it and I usually re-paste the GPU/CPU every 1-2 years. I've replaced the LCD twice (for obvious reasons) and one stick of memory. Other than opening it up to clean it out occasionally, everything else seems to be still working fine. Over 8 years of opening and closing this thing many times daily, the hinges are still in top shape. The machine is still solid, and the fans are still working. Keyboard is still solid and the speakers still work (they do crackle at max volume and lets be honest, the Clevo speakers were never that great to begin with). All the buttons still work, the lights light up, and the touch pad is the same as the day I bought it.

I haven't been an active poster in the forums since I bought this machine, but I have been a longtime lurker and I've been browsing the forum more lately because I'm looking to replace my current machine with a newer one. Maybe I've had exceptional luck with my current machine, but I plan on replacing it with another Clevo.

TLDR: Life happens and my Clevo took a ****load of abuse over the years and still runs.

 

Lots of back and forth in this thread, I did some heavy cleanup.
If your post got removed, I apologize. The thread took a bad turn and there was no going back.

Charles

 

A) I do not but I've heard good things about both

B) I've owned a :
Clevo P570WM with a 10-Core XEON HEDT CPU
Clevo P870DM with 6700K & 980M SLI & GTX 980 (Desktop)
Clevo P870DM3 with 7700K & 1080 SLI

I can say they're reliable as far as motherboard, etc. The build quality isn't bad but I've been spoiled by my Alienware M18x. I was perfectly fine with them.

C) My temps were amazing in the P570WM (thickest laptop I've ever owned)
In my P870DM they were also very good, maybe mid 70s for CPU and low to mid 70s for GPU(s)
In my P870DM3 temps were around mid 70s for CPU and mid 70s to high 70s for GPUs

Noise level on P870DM3 was much higher than my P870DM/P570WM on load but under everyday use they're quiet

D) Yes! Make sure you get the CPU delidded, it makes a huge difference

E) Yes, if the design stays the same in the future, you can upgrade the GPUs

F) Personally I preferred the 4K display because of it's good picture quality and high color gamut over the WQHD 120Hz display. I've owned both and honestly I'd go for the 1080p 144Hz panel if you want high refresh rates.

I will say I've always wanted to try out the P775XX series because it seems to be the perfect size. There is a noticable difference in size and weight between the two so look into that as well.