P870KM1 1080 SLI issue (possible dead card?)

Hi All,

So i bought a P870KM1 from @DaMafiaGamer which has been superb and what a great guy as a side note. Came with a single 1080 and i always had the intention of going SLI hence i bought the additional PSU and splitter again from @DaMafiaGamer

I bought an additional 1080 from @Dr. AMK again a top top guy arrived reasonably swiftly considering the holidays

Before installing i modded the heatsink as per instructions with a pure copper 0.5mm shim and was all good to go, i used 6wmk thermal pads as per instructions also

Installed and everything was perfect, temps where good, the only issue i had was the slave card from @Dr. AMK seemed to be drawing up to 205w, this subsequently settled down over the next week and both cards where drawing around 180W

Temps where fantastic, the primary card topped out at 73 degrees and the slave around 78 degrees

On the weekend the machine failed to post at all,it turned on for a few seconds then off, nothing on the screen just black.

Below is the troubleshooting i have done

Removed the slave and the machine posts fine

Swapped the cards around so the slave is in the master and master in the slave, machine fails to post same behavior as above

removed both cards, same behavior as above

put just the slave card in the master slot, same behavior as above

So essentially i think the slave card is dead, i have no other machine to test it in either unfortunately as my brothers machine died a month ago.

I am back running with the single 1080 that came with the machine absolutely fine, both the card are exactly the same revision

Does anyone have any other ideas on what i can do to test or eliminate anything else as i am stumped and left with a rather heavy paperweight after less than a month of use

 

Seems like the slave card has killed itself. Were the thermal pads making good contact on the vrm sides?

 

I'm sorry for what happened, I assure you that the card was in 100% working condition.
Is the vBIOS for both is the same?
The copper 0.5mm shim, if it pushed hard the GPU core it will damage it, for all normal vapor chamber heatsink there is no need for any shims.
I suggest that you attache some pictures for the card from both sides.

 

Absolutely, nice slight indents from the pressure. As for the copper shim, its exactly the same as the one @DaMafiaGamer has on the other side, if anything it was not making enough contact till i repasted with a slightly thicker TIM (Kryonaut)

I will post some photos tonight, i had a really good look through a small magnifying glass and it doesnt shoy any circuit breaks, but i mean in all honesty its not that powerful to look through so i could have missed something

 

For the card and the VP heatsink as well.

 

Hi guys,

Had more of a play and still the same

Attached the above


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There is no defined slave card so they can be swapped for testing or either one run I individually.

 

Already done this as above

Removed, and tested the new card on its own and doesn’t post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Whats the mark near the vram chip??

 

Just some left over thermal pad from the old pads that must have been applied, the phobya ones I have a dark grey

I’m utterly stumped now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What happens when you start the laptop, does the laptop charge led turn off. Or does the power on light animation happen then the laptop turn off again?
This might help tell us if its the die or the vrms.

 

So whenever that specific card is in the machine, either on its on, or sli

The power light turns on, it does the quick led flash either side of the main power button then it powers off immediately

That’s the same on battery or with PSU plugged in

Battery charge indicator comes on and charges fine

As soon as I put the new card back in on its own it’s hey presto works a treat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Die is dead, R.I.P gtx 1080

 

So if that’s the case @Dr. AMK do you know if the card would still be in any sort of warranty with manufacturer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Unfortunately I don't think there is any warranty.
I suggest that you flash a vBios for the KM1, this card from P870DM3-G with different vBios. You can flash it using a programmer. And you have to know if your screen is Gsync or not, This problem happened with me before (EDIT: with different system) and I fixed it buy flashing the right vBIOS and BIOS for the system considering the screen model and options.

 

I completely understand what you feel, but it's not fair that you filed a claim on PayPal requesting refund, the card was working 100% and it was working with you for sometime, you missed up with something and you damage the card then you just ask for your money. This is not fair, This is the first time for me to go through this kind of process, but I'll go for it. If I have 0.01% that the card has any problem I'll just refund, but I'm sure that you did something wrong and lost the card and you just don't like to take the responsibility. There is no warranty in our deal and the card already was working on your laptop.

 

Your name appears on the email @Dr. AMK

 

Thank you Sir. @Meaker@Sager,
My LinkedIn profile already in my NBR profile information, and I have no issues about all kind members to know who I'm.

 

No problem, just making sure

 

Hi all, apologies i have been travelling for work this morning.

I unfortunately feel like i have no choice, and as for me doing something wrong? Nope, to be clear, i have been an IT professional for well over ten years feel free to check my linkedin profile also (not sure why thats a thing but hey ho) www.linkedin.com/in/tony-scott-74644533

The only questions i had was around vBios as it is something i have never ever had the need to look into, and subsequently i never did anyway.

Do i like having to file a claim? absolutely not, but the situation is as follows

The device does not work and i have no further way of testing in another machine. I know this is a really crap situation, but what else would anyone else expect me to do? Sit with a device that lasted less than 3 weeks and cost $700?

I spoke to PayPal this morning and went with their advice, I could ask for further advice again today from them? or Mastercard?

I am totally up for any resolution or advice to try and rectify this, what i want is it to be working. @DaMafiaGamer has been superb in any advice and is far more knowledgeable than i am over MXM cards and clevo setups so i can only go on the advice i am given.

To be clear, either the card is faulty, or the laptop is faulty, the laptop boots fine with the original card in so i do not think it is unreasonable for me or anyone else to come to the conclusion that the card is at fault.

Is a $700 expected to work for three weeks? is that what we are saying is acceptable here?

I am in back to back meetings most of the day discussing network transformation, so please do not think i am ignoring this post i have a day job and will respond when i get a few minutes

Again, i am sorry for this but i really do not know what else i can do in this situation

 

Having been a notebook enthusiast for well over 15 years I know just how easy it is to kill mxm modules. I also know how finicky they can be too.

I've killed my fair share of cards the years from stupid mistakes; accidentally pulled or installed a card with the battery/PSU still connected, shorted out the caps surrounding the die due to poorly fitting shims, mangled pins in a MXM connector or scratched the pads on the board edge, warped the PCB due to contact retention mods.

I've had my fair share of cards die on me under normal use; working perfectly fine one day only to die the next with absolutely no warning.

I've also sold a few cards that I was 100% sure were good and then suddenly stopped working after the buyer received them; Tested the cards thoroughly prior to shipping. Buyer got the cards, initially claimed they worked and then claimed they were dead. One of the transactions, I'm fairly sure the card just died. The other transaction I'm 90% sure the buyer killed the card due to the condition it was sent it back in and then I found forum posts that the buyer made explaining his troubleshooting process which contradicted what he told me in PM and could have easily resulted in a dead card. Both times I had to take the dead cards back because there's no winning a Paypal dispute as a seller. Cost me close to $1000 in dead hardware that was working perfectly when I sent it out the door.

My point is, trading in MXM cards, especially used MXM cards is an extremely risky business.

Sellers are at risk for several reasons.
1) It is extremely easy for the buyer to make a simple mistake during install and kill the card and then claim the card was bad.
2) Due to the nature of the hobby most buyers will be using modified cooling and/or pushing the cards with overclocks/overvolts/flashing modified vbioses all of which can easily kill or degrade cards. Buyers can then easily blame that on a bad card.
3) It's very realistic for a MXM card to just die overnight in normal use. I estimate I've owned over 3 dozen modules over the course of my hobby and this has happened to me on 2 occasions - that's a high percentage. Is it fair to blame the seller for a legitimately functioning card at the time of arrival going dead shortly thereafter? Probably not, as that situation was out of both parties' control. These scenarios are bad luck and IMO just have to be eaten considering the nature of the trade.
4) There's also the possibility the cards are simply not compatible with the buyer's system and there is nothing wrong with the cards themselves. IMO the onus is on the buyer to ensure the cards are compatible (or know what they need to do to make them compatible) prior to purchasing. If the seller had a false advertisement, then that is on the seller. Buying used MXM cards for the purpose of "trying them out" and then returning them if they don't work is not an appropriate modus operandi and has no place in our hobby due to how easy it is to kill cards and how most sellers are individuals - not companies.
5) MXM cards are expensive and Paypal usually sides with the buyer, so if the buyer has the intention of committing fraud, it is easy for them to do so, and you have no recourse.

Buyers are also at significant risk:
1) A seller can sell a bad card and then claim the buyer messed it up.
2) A seller can sell a falsely advertised card.
3) MXM cards are very expensive.
4) Used MXM cards usually have no warranty of any kind.

I don't know what happened here, but here is what we do know:

-The card worked fine on arrival; the complaint of drawing too much power could be due to physx running on that card, a different vbios, tweaked voltage levels in afterburner, etc. I don't consider that alone to be a sign of a bad card.

-The buyer was using a shimmed heatsink which increased contact pressure beyond what the laptop designer intended, meaning the laptop the card was used in was in a non stock configuration. . . maybe other things have been modified that won't be revealed.

-The card stopped working after 3 weeks use.

-The pictures of the card show no signs of being reflowed.

Based on the above, my take on what happened is: The seller shipped a 100% working card. 1) The card then died 3 weeks later due to a defect which was out of the control of both parties or 2) the buyer killed the card through either a mistake or due to his modified cooling setup.

For #2, the fault is obviously with the buyer.
For #1, my opinion is that is the risk you take when dealing in used MXM cards. If I was the buyer I'd eat it because I understand the risks after having been in this hobby for so long. Sometimes cards will just die. And when you bought that card from an individual (not a company) with no warranty or promise of return, then you have no recourse when it stops working later down the road. The buyer admits the card worked fine and the pictures he provided showed that the seller did not reflow a bad card to commit fraud. Trying to force the seller to give you your money back is morally shady. You're reversing the transaction. You're saying "the product I received was not the product that was advertised (the card was advertised as working); therefore I want my money back - and in exchange for my money back I will send the seller back the exact same card in the exact same condition he sent it to me in". The problem is, the card is not in the exact same condition the seller sent it in. It has at a minimum been used in a foreign system with a modified cooling solution that exerts more pressure on the die and it has also been seated and re-seated who knows how many times. Considering how fragile MXM modules are, these factors could easily reduce the lifespan or operating ability of the card. Furthermore, the card no longer works - it wasn't DOA. If it was DOA, then you'd be sending it back in the same condition you received it in. Expecting a full refund is a bit shady.

 

I agree with everything you have said minus the seller never winning.

I have done this on a few occasions and won, one being a case with a laptop sale in particular an m18x r2 back in 2014, it was sold to a buyer they had it for 3 months with zero warranty, and then they broke it.

After a 6 month battle with Paypal, they wouldn't do anything to assist despite all the evidence I provided.
2 years later the case was reviewed at a much higher level and found to be a poor decision on Paypals part, given all the evidence I provided.
I was provided with a full refund back from Paypal.

You don't lose all the time, if the evidence stacks up, you can win.

Also, see this post here, I won this case as the seller too all within 1 hour...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ebay-sale-m18x-lcd-pathetic-scam-attempt-must-see.828762/

 

Although i appreciate your opinion, it is just that. To state i am morally in the wrong is low in itself, so well done by stating i am SHADY, you sir are immediately stating i am wrong and morally bankrupt when firstly you know nothing of me, and secondly just because your opinion does not match mine you decide to call me out as shady? really? bravo, great introduction in the first ever conversation i have had with you, which again furthers my point, you do not know me and come out with your comments of essentially attacking me as the buyer? amazing.

Firstly you do not know me, at all. Secondly you by all means can question my technical ability to install a card, again i could counter that argument with more examples to prove my ability than i could shake a fist at. Again it is not relevant.

I would point you in the direction of one of your most valid points. Cards die, we all know that, now as for risk, by all means you may take a risk of $700 on something without any care in the world that it could fail within a small amount of time. I However do not, if this card had failed in 3 months, so be it, thats life. The fact of the matter is that it did not, it failed less than 3 weeks, actually its more like 15 days. Now, through the guidance of @DaMafiaGamer who again i can not thank enough i did the exact same mod as he did, in the exact same way, everyone can and YOU can post about modifying a heat sink as much as you like, the fact of the matter is it is no differently modded to the non slave GPU, they share the same heatsink, they are not separate, the heights are identical, the pressure applied is identical.

The card worked perfectly fine, it now does not. 15 days of usage for $700 do you think that is a fair reflection? Maybe in your opinion it is, but it is just that your opinion it does not represent anyone elses or mine

I have reached out to people on here for advice and had just that.

now i assume you are thinking i should just cut my losses? however i will ask you this same question, you are quick to throw my morals and myself under the bus as the problem in this situation, be that by morally expecting a card to last longer than 15 days, or by a technical installation issue caused by myself (again, not sure how it would work perfectly fine if i had somehow installed the card totally wrong, and by the by its hardly a difficult install so please don't question my ability after 10 years in the field, do not offend me) on the same token i have NO idea on the cards history, it could have been known to be faulty? I am not saying that is the case, but on the same note YOU are questioning my morals purely based on what? the amount of posts i have on here? my reputation on here does not match that of the seller? come off it. I don't know him just as he doesn't know me, the guy was great, and i am sure he is, and yeah sh*t happens, but 3 weeks for a $700 card, nope sorry in my opinion that is not remotely OK.

I think this thread is pointless in all honesty, it is there for assistance, not mud throwing, not accusations either.

I am fine with my opinion, i do not expect everyone to be (however, three DM's clearly show i have support for how i have approached this so it is what it is)

I will deal directly with the seller through PayPal or my credit card company, either or.

If we could come to another arrangement then absolutely brilliant.

But nobody on here is going to question my morality on the basis of "well it worked, now it doesn't so it must be you" so by all means keep your opinions to yourself, or post them on here, it really makes no odds.

Also as a side note

Lets say you bought the same card from ebay, had it working for 3 weeks (which is longer than it was) and it failed, would you and be honest put in a claim? or just cut your losses on $700?

If you state you would just cut your losses and thats that, then you have far more money than i do, and i am not sure if that would even be about morals at that point.

Thanks for your input and lovely way of calling me out as "shady" top man

 

You have valid points here, and to be honest i wouldn't be wiping off $700 after 3 weeks of usage.
In all honesty, none of us know the history of the card prior to it even getting to @ascottuk2010 , so it's not fair to assume history after it's been in receipt of him either.

 

I figured you would probably react this way. Just calling it as I see it. I specifically stated in my post I don't know what happened. Only you and the seller have the full story. However based on the information you did provide, I can't draw a different conclusion. Maybe try refuting that with an actual argument.

I don't have to know you to judge one particular publicly posted exchange as questionable.

I know full well that anyone is capable of mistakes regardless of experience. Anyone who arrogantly uses their experience as evidence for their claimed inability to make mistakes is delusional. In fact, people who are conscious of their ability to make mistakes tend to make fewer of them.

That's the nature of the game for the reasons I explained in my post. I'd like to hear your arguments for as to why trading used MXM cards is not inherently highly risky.

If you are OK with it failing after 90 days, then why are you not OK with it failing after 15 days? And you've previously stated it was 3 weeks.

Have you measured the heights of the shims? Have you measured the delta in height between both contact patches on the VC? Have you measured the delta in heights between the tops of the gpu dies when installed in the chassis? Assuming the shims are precisely the same thickness and the VC contact patches and gpu dies are precisely the same heights is not good enough. Have you measured the pressure applied? The fact that the master gpu hasn't died isn't good enough evidence to state the issue is not with the pressure being applied due to the shims. The cards are being loaded beyond their designed limits. Different cards will react differently.

No, I think that is real bad luck and I sympathize as I've had similar things happen to me.

How can you be so arrogant so as to speak for everyone else? You can't read their minds. Also other users have expressed agreement with my opinions and analysis in this thread already.

Yeah, unless you have any further evidence as to why the whole situation is the seller's fault. Maybe the seller would be nice enough to agree to buy back the card for the going rate for faulty 1080's ($200-$300).

Expecting a card to last longer than 15 days (or 3 weeks or whatever it was) has nothing to do with morals. Not acknowledging the reality of the trade and the nature of the hardware is poor foresight. For example I've decided to stop buying used MXM cards unless I can afford to lose the money - the risk is too high for my liking for top dollar cards. I'll buy new instead from a reputable company since it poses significantly less risk and as a buyer you have more recourse options if something does go wrong.

Maybe increased contact pressure combined with heatcycling the cards in normal use warped the PCB and cracked some of the BGA joints. It has happened to me . . .

That is entirely possible. However by buying a used card you accepted the risk of never being able to guarantee what the card's history was. And based on the evidence you gave, I believe the card was not faulty and have made IMO compelling arguments to that point. I'd like to hear your arguments to the contrary.

Post count or reputation has nothing to do with this. I'm questioning your motives/morals based on the evidence you gave in this public forum. I don't need to know you or the seller to judge that event based on evidence you gave.

Not disagreeing that the situation sucks.

Well I am questioning your motives/reasoning/moral choices because I think I understand the nature of the game better than you and want to try and make this community a bit better by making sure people have realistic expectations when buying used MXM modules. That way fewer legitimate sellers will get burned, and buyers will be more wary about purchasing from scammers and therefore make better choices.

It really would depend on whether or not I could prove the card was bad when the seller sold it to me. If I installed the card in a modified system or ran the card out of spec in anyway then I'd accept that the onus is on me. If I found a defect in the card that I could prove was present when I received it and resulted in the cards delayed demise, then I'd probably file a claim after first attempting to work things out with the seller. But in all honesty, I'd probably instead spend an extra $200 and get the card brand new from a company. I'd rather spend an extra $200 then potentially lose $700 when the risk is so high.

Anytime my man! /s

 

Cheers for the input


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So what's the outcome have you and @Dr. AMK come to a conclusion?

He is a very nice guy @ascottuk2010 so he can probably make some sort of deal I'm sure.

 

I don’t doubt either of those things, as of yet nothing has even been discussed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I feel so bad really, what happened to my PayPal account and all of this situation I have, my other invoices is pending to pay, and PayPal is forcing me to pay the claim amount first.

I was just saying for one of NBR respected members after he advised me to be happy to complete my treatment faster, and I said, I believe that this life no one can be happy, and the real happiness will be in the after life, so I'm trying to be a good human

Spoiler: Conversation

.

The main guarantor of awareness of conscience and self-accountability and away from injustice, even if the weight of an atom, is faith in God and Ethics.
I do not judge anyone, but unfortunately people are not equal in faith, including an atheist who does not believe in God, I respect everyone and love the good of all, and happy to make everyone around me happy.

I will not give in to the process of return in this way, and I consider it unethical, even if penalties are imposed on my account or until the amount is returned by usurpation, I will not forgive in any amount paid and in what we will meet together with a fair Lord and I will take my right that time At a Higher Value.

I already go with the investigation process for the first time in my long life, I'll wait for the PayPal reply and update the thread,

Thanks for all members trying to support our case, I really care that all kind members at NBR take this case as a lesson, and not to do any of our mistakes.

I do respect and trust this forum and all kind members so,
The solution I propose if the buyer accepts it is to form a committee of distinguished members of the forum and experienced moderators can be chosen by @Charles P. Jefferies to investigate the matter and find out all the details, under one condition, that we both accept the judgment they will say.
This way I see it civilized, ethical and fair rather than the coercion and deliberate harm.

 

You guys need to take this conversation off the forum.

We will not moderate any investigation or otherwise.

Charles