Hi all ... First, an attempted tl;dr...
Getting 6700K this week (on sale $260-270 in-store), what thermal paste to use? Clevo or Cooler master I already have, or buy some at Fry's or Micro Center (whichever place I get CPU) or online? Want to keep temps under control & be long lasting, see below... (also, laptop cooler for better silence? & is 230W power brick still ok?)
So the i7-6700K is on sale this week. Newegg & Amazon have it for $299. Micro Center (98 miles from me) has it for $259 in-store, and Fry's (14 miles), with a promo code, has it for $269. I'm planning to run over to Fry's to try to get it sometime today. (If it turns out they're sold out, I'll consider running up to Micro Center and trying to get it there, as it's now in stock - wasn't yesterday.)
I'd be upgrading from my i3-6100 that's currently installed. I had been planning to wait for the 7700K to come out, but, among other things ...
- The 6700K is on deep sale now
- The 7700K isn't likely to be ~$250-270 until next November (2017) and I don't want to wait that long
- I'd need a bios update (no idea when that would happen)
- Rumor has it the 7700K wouldn't be THAT much better than the 6700K.
I'd like to keep my temps under control as much as possible. I know I can't slap like an AIO watercooler or a large Noctua D15 or Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 3 or Cryorig R1 Ultimate heatsink in thereso I'm thinking using a decent TIM would be my best bet.
If I buy at Fry's, they have
- Antec Formula 7 Nano Diamond,
- EverCool Cruise Missile,
- Masscool G751,
- Masscool Fanner-420,
- Masscool Stars-700,
- Arctic Silver 5,
- Thermaltake TG-4, and
- Thermaltake TG-3.
If I buy at Micro Center, they have quite a few, including, among others (26 listed total at Tustin, CA),
- EKWB High Performance
- IC Diamond 7
- Arctic MX-4
- Thermaltake TG-2
- Noctua NT-H1
- Antec Formula 7
- IC Diamond 24
If I order online (like Newegg/Amazon), I'd also consider Gelid Extreme & Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. I'm open to other suggestions as well, but I don't plan on using Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or anything like that.
I also still have the paste that came with the laptop (bought from RJTech, they offered IC diamond but I didn't choose it), and I may have some Cooler Master paste (idk how much) that came with the 212 Evo in my desktop.
I haven't used any of the RJTech/Clevo paste. I've done 3 applications with the CM paste - one on my desktop CPU in Jan 2015, and one each on my laptop CPU & GPU (970M) in Dec 2015.
Whatever paste I get, I'm hoping it'd be long lasting, so I wouldn't have to reapply after several years (unless of course I replace the CPU (again) & GPU - don't expect to replace CPU again unless Coffee Lake is compatible (doubted), & GPU unlikely unless 11/12/20/30-60/70 is compatible & a major 3-5x upgrade). If I don't replace the GPU & GPU again, I'd want the paste to last as long as I have the laptop, if possible. I anticipate keeping the laptop longer than my desktop (and I anticipate keeping the desktop's ASRock Z97 Extreme6 motherboard until 2021-2023 at least).
Looking at HWMonitor which has been open for the last several days, my peak temps are
- 87°C = "Notebook P775DM(-G)" (I'm thinking motherboard, actually it's a P750DM-G)
- 91°C = i3-6100
- 73°C = Crucial MX200 250GB M.2 SSD
- 57°C = Seagate M9T 2TB 2.5" HDD
- 76°C = GTX 970M
The paste would be for the CPU & GPU, but the SSD & board temps also concern me. I'm not sure how to better cool the board, but I don't (yet) have a thermal pad on the SSD. (I think the HDD is not so bad, although I've heard warnings about letting them go over like 60.)
I do try to be careful to make sure the air vents can breathe. Speaking of which, should I consider getting a laptop cooling pad? My main wish would be to have the whole system be much quieter under load - as in, the laptop cooler's larger fans would be quieter, and would hopefully cool the laptop effectively enough so its own fans wouldn't have to spin up so much.
I'm currently using the 230-watt power brick - would that still be good enough if I'm not OC'ing or overvolting, or do I need to order the 330-watt power brick? (I'd prefer to stick with the 230 if at all possible for now.)
I don't plan on doing much if any OC'ing on the CPU, and I'd even consider undervolting to keep temps down at 4.0-4.2 GHz if possible. If I could get 4.4 or 4.5, it'd be nice, but I don't plan on sweating it. 4.8 would be a dream, but totally unexpected, and I almost definitely wouldn't be overvolting, unless maybe a tiny push like 0.01 to 0.025 V or so. (My desktop requires 1.35V on its 4790K with 212 Evo at 4.8, but seems to be okay with stock 1.25V at 4.7 GHz. 0.1 GHz higher and it BSODs "WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR" in ~30 seconds running FireStrike physics test.)
-
-
holy guacamole, your laptop can be happy that youve decided to open it up to upgrade your cpu
those temps are waaaay too high!
ok, but first things first:
- 6700K at that price is a nobrainer, good decision on not waiting for the 7700K based on economical reasons
- no need for a 330W psu if youre not planning to overclock BOTH the cpu AND gpu to the absolute limit. the 230W psu can take quite the beating, the only thing it cant take it overclocking both components to the max. otherwise, moderate overclocks on both is indeed possible.
- of all the listed thermal pastes, id go for IC Diamond in-store, and GC Extreme for online ordering. ive just had my first thorough experience with kryonaut, and while fresh repaste temps were absolutely amazing, longevity sucked (temps spiked 10-15C after only 2-3 days of usage....)
- now to your temps...good god, what your ambient temp? if its NOT tropical climate without A/C, then its reaaaally about time that you properly clean out your machine. my guess is tons of accumulated dust inside, clodding up the heatsink fins and the fans. make sure to take out both and thoroughly clean them! with the fans, just take out the casings, open those up and take out the fan rotors themselves (theyre just held in there magnetically, so no biggie after unscrewing the fan casing), rinse them off with water and then, of course, dry them thoroughly before installing them again. that and the repaste should do wonder for your temps!
also, establish the habit of repasting about every 3-12 months, depending on how dusty and hot your environment is. trust me, leaving your system with the same paste job for "several years" and letting it run at your quoted temps is not the best idea. also make sure to watch youtube videos or inform yourself here at NBR on how to do a proper paste job! seeing that comparably weak i3 running at 91C in such a potent cooling system scares the crap out of meif you put the 6700K into that situation, itll go nuclear...
cooling down gpu and cpu will also help with your storage temps, which are also way too high...
in any case, enjoy your upgrade and make sure to do everything slowly and thoroughly. that way ull enjoy your system for a long time to come -
In terms of thermal paste:
IC Diamond if you're not feeling adventurous and want good temps. Noctua has also been OK in my experience... Just apply it and you're good to go
Coollaboratory Liquid Pro/Ultra if you want the best temps and don't mind the extra effort involved in applying it. It does require care to apply, since if you spill it onto your motherboard when applying it, you'll need to clean it very carefully with rubbing alcohol before turning the system on. The syringe plunger is stiff but be gentle and don't force it because it tends to squirt out (That's what she said...). Done this a few times - no big deal and accidents happen. The plus side is that it doesn't need replacing, unlike traditional pastes. There are a lot of scare stories about using this TIM but I honestly feel that some people make it sound liek more of a risk than it really is. I've applied it to about ~20-30 systems now and none of them have had issues.
Agree with Jaybee - those temps are kinda insane atm...
Wouldn't really bother with the other pastes, I don't feel that they beat ICD.
I'd go with the i7-6700K tbh - unless you actually need the extra power of the 7700... But I'm a fan of finding a happy meeting place between price and power and this might not reflect your own priorities. -
Thanks for the responses so far.
A few thoughts below...
I don't plan on pushing the OC much, if at all. I'd be very conservative on pushing voltages, power limits, etc. I'd be happy with whatever I could get at stock voltage, without making temps & power draw go sky high.
Glad I don't need to spend $ on a higher capacity PSU.
- Antec Formula 7 Nano Diamond (Fry's, $15)
- EverCool Cruise Missile (Fry's, $13)
- Masscool G751 (Fry's, $6)
- Masscool Fanner-420 (Fry's, $3)
- Masscool Stars-700 (Fry's, $3)
- Arctic Silver 5 (Fry's, $9, 3.5g)
- Thermaltake TG-4 (Fry's, $5)
- Thermaltake TG-3 (Fry's, $10)
- Clevo stock paste (have since 12-2015, unused)
- Cooler Master 212 Evo paste (have since 01-2015, used 3x)
I opened it a couple weeks ago (just popped the cover off though, nothing else) and didn't see much dust in the fan / exhaust area. Yeah, there was a little, but nothing like my dad's laptop last time he cleaned it out - I'd say at most 5% or so in mine, although I haven't removed the fan.
Even though my fan/heatsink isn't anything close to that clogged, I still plan to clean it anyway when I put the new CPU in. I've downloaded the service manual from prema's site, but don't recall seeing specifics on removing the fan. (Maybe it's in there, I might have missed it before.)
I guess the method of paste application I used on my desktop's 212 Evo & 4790K wasn't appropriate for the laptop?
I used a single line each on the desktop & laptop CPUs, and a double line on the laptop GPU.
The desktop seems to idle around low 30s C (according to HWMonitor), and is peaking under normal loads in the mid 60s, at stock settings. Right now it's hovering in the mid 40s to low 50s with a light load - ~20-30% usage.
If I run Prime95 28.7 small FFT at stock settings, it'll go into the 90s to 100C. If I overclock (not using P95 to test, but other things like firestrike physics test & others), I get low 70s at 1.25V, 4.7 GHz, or mid 80s at 1.35V, 4.8 GHz.
The laptop's HWMonitor minimum is 30C, and currently hovering around 50C with a ~15-20% load.
What might be a better application method to use? The pea method? X method? Or something else? (If I don't have to, I'd prefer not to manually spread it.) There's a video done by Luke LaFreniere (from Linus Tech Tips) where he tests several methods on a 5930K & H60.
Almost all of them get the same result, except "too little" which is several C higher. Is it possible I applied "too little"? I wanted to be careful about not spilling over the edge onto the board (I hear that's bad for some pastes especially liquid metal), but otoh I think JayzTwoCents also did a video, showing no detrimental effects to putting too much paste on a GTX 1080 or Titan X or something.
As for my environment, I'm east of San Diego, CA, about a mile or so from where things start getting really rural/mountainous. We don't have A/C at our house, summer temps can often reach the mid 90s to mid 100s °F outside and low-mid 80s °F indoors. Even hitting 90°F indoors isn't unheard of, and while it's probably been about 15-20 years since it's happened, I remember one hot summer where it hit 117°F outside, and I'm pretty sure it was > 100°F inside based on how ugh it felt!
My dad does run an exhaust fan in one window of the house overnight in summer, and I think that does help keep temps down to the upper 70s / low 80s in summer most of the time. In winter, it does get cooler, although we pretty much never get snow here. (I think we've had a tiny bit once in my life, barely enough to build a snowman the size I was at the time - I was like 4 or 5 I think.) It often stays warm late into fall, or gets warm for a few days with Santa Anas from the desert east of us - hitting near 100 for a couple days at least once between October and February isn't unheard of.
I was thinking putting a thermal pad on the M.2 SSD might not be a bad idea, but idk what to do about the hard drive.
I want to do it right, as reasonably as I can.
-
sounds like a good base to start off with
- paste and method: my suggestion would be to order GC Extreme online and use whatever u have at home for the initial 6700K installation. then, once u get GCE, repaste again and call it a day for the next 6-12 months or soindeed, pasting methods are not too different in their thermal performance, but u can gain a degree here or there. in the end, it depends on the form factor of the chip / IHS, on which pasting method is the best. youll want to aim for a thin even layer of paste between the heatsink and the chip. too much paste is generally better than too little, and u dont want any areas left out. on the gpu side i personally go with the pea method, whereas the cpu sports quite the large area to cover. to i either apply nine little dots in 3x3 formation or use the cross method. both will give you nice and complete coverage of the IHS
in laptops its indeed a bit different than in desktops due to the lower heatsink pressure...
- taking out the fans for cleaning is pretty straight forward: 1) disconnect each fan from the mainboard, theyre connected via a thin cable and a white 3 pin (i think? or was it 4?) connector 2) take out the three screws holding each fan casing in place on the mobo, now u can remove the fan casing 3) on each side of the fan casing, there are three tiny screws, once u remove all of them on one side, you can open up the fan casing (beware, opening the case is easier from one specific side, so better try both and see which one is easier) 4) remove the fan rotor by pulling on it. no worries, its held by a magnetic coil, so theres nothing u can destroy there ^^ 5) rinse off the fan rotor under warm water, thoroughly remove all the dust from the individual fan blades. just watch out not to break off any blades, theyre not that sturdy ^^ afterwards, dry the rotors, i.e. with a hair dryer to speed up the process 7) reinstall and enjoy completely dust-free fans
- especially in your warm environment, it can help to raise the back of the laptop a bit to improve air circulation. based on reports here id say that most clevo machines get the same temp improvement from raising the back and using a laptop cooler. im using two plastic bottle caps, one on each side, and they work wonders! just try it out before spending money on a cooler
- lowering the load temps of your two most powerful / hottest components, namely cpu and gpu also helps immensely in reducing temps for other components, such as RAM, storage and PCH. M.2 SSDs generally dont need extra thermal pads placed on them, unless were talking PCIe SSDs. as far as I can see though, youre sporting an M.2 based SATA SSD, that one should be fine without thermal padding... im just thinking that your cpu at 91C and gpu at 76C are having a big influence on those storage temps... ideally, your cpu should be in the 60s-tohigh 70s in regular usage, maxing out at <90C in high stress situations. for the gpu, 60s in regular situations and low 70s in high stress load scenarios. this is for this machine and with this hardware, of course. other machines with different hardware have different goal temps -
Thanks, @jaybee83
I'll check the msg more in detail later, but I'm at Fry's right now, they have the 6700K & I'm getting it.
I guess I'll order Gelid Extreme, I was really hoping to get it by Saturday early afternoon. I wonder if Newegg could help there, I ordered a 5TB HDD & some SATA cables for my desktop Monday night & they arrived this morning. (Doing math, if I order tonight, hopefully it ships Friday (Thursday=Thanksgiving) & arrives Saturday, IF it ships from City of Industry and the carrier (FedEx?) delivers on Saturday.)
Would it be safe to temporarily run with no paste or the previous residue with a major underclock (whatever afterburner would allow on GPU, maybe 600-750 MHz, & 2-2.8 GHz on CPU), or should I wait to install the 6700K until the Gelid arrives? I don't want to reapply twice within like a week, unless I do a terrible job and get like 40-60C idle and 75-100C with moderate load (no gaming/benchmarks, just heavy browsing/youtube/twitch/4K playback/etc).
I'd like to install the CPU no later than Saturday, but would wait if necessary for TIM to arrive.
I'll check the rest of your post later.jaybee83 likes this. -
Okay here we go finally
I'm thinking I'll hold off until I actually get paste.
Also for the CPU, I was considering the actual die under the IHS being relatively small, as in smaller than the GPU die. (I'm sure on a Xeon E7 though it'd be quite large.) Should I even consider possibly using a spreader? Or would the 3x3 / X method work well enough?
In the event (hopefully not though) that I DO break fan blades, is there a particular size replacement fan, or would I have to use specific Clevo fans? If the former, for example, if it's an 80mm fan, could I pop in like some BeQuiet! Silent Wings 2, Noctua NF-A8 PWM, or something? (I don't intend to just swap fans out already, only if something breaks, or if I'd get a major improvement in temp vs noise, like 30-40╕C cooler at same dB, or 30-40dB quieter at same °C or something like that.) Also which is #6? I'm guessing dry the rotors?
I usually run with either an old cassette walkman under the back, or a couple hundred page hymnal (under where the power cord goes in), although I think the couple times it hit high temps like that, I was running it flat. That raise-the-back solution is a bit unwieldy in some situations, like using the laptop on my lap (the book I use is not large enough to span between my legs unless I hold my knees together, and maybe not even then), and a few other situations. It works okay on a bed, table, floor, though.
Hey I'm gonna go start looping firestrike with the back propped up, and see what it runs at, I'll reply or edit later with the results.
Okay, so I went in there, & saw that my CPU usage wasn't really pegged, but all over the place averaging 50-70%, just looping FireStrike combined test. So, I switched it to TimeSpy Physics test instead (it doesn't have a combined option), and added Unigine Valley with everything cranked up, except resolution at 640x360. (I don't know how to loop Cinebench, and I didn't want to run Prime95.)
And, after another several minutes or so (and yet another benchmark restart cause it somehow closed itself), I'm hitting around 69-71°C on the GPU, and upper 70s to mid 80s or so on the CPU at max. Still a bit warm, I think. Switching the CPU stress to Cinebench, it was holding a bit more steady around 82-84°C or so.
I think I've seen the CPU hit 90°C when pegged while freshly opening Chrome, since I have the remember windows & tabs from last time option checked, a session manager, and several hundred tabs spread over a couple dozen windows. In fact I'm about to try that, after I shut off the benchmarks, and observe what it does....
And, I stand corrected on the 90C while opening Chrome. It was mostly in the upper 60s C, barely breaching into the low 70s.
At "idle" (before relaunching chrome), it's around 49-52°C or so at 5-10% utilization, although, for some reason right now it's not downclocking from 3.7 GHz.
If I was to get a laptop cooling pad, my main wish would be for it to cut noise way down - for example not have the laptop's fans need to turn on at all in situations where without the cooling pad, the laptop would be hitting 80-90°C. And hopefully the cooling pad's fans - I'm thinking of maybe getting one with like a single 200mm fan (or would two 120's be better?) - would be quiet (like decent quality name-brand case/desktop heatsink fans, not the screaming banshee that came with my desktop's 212 Evo - yes I want silence if at all possible) even when the laptop is under major load. (I'd basically like to reduce the noise by 30-40dB or so when temps are in the 80s °C, and hopefully the temps don't get that high in the first place, allowing it to be even quieter.)
And I may yet get another SSD & HDD depending on sales. I'm seeing some 2TB 2.5" HDDs being discounted quite a bit, and I'm also keeping my eyes open on an M.2 SSD.
At pre-BF prices, I think I'd probably either go for a SATA M.2 SSD (525GB, 750GB, 1.05TB or similar), or wait, even though I'm running out of space on both my 250GB SSD & 2TB HDD. I'd like to double, preferably triple or quad the SSD capacity, for the same to double what I paid for the MX200 (a bit under $100).
Also it'd be nice to get a 4TB or 5TB 2.5" HDD, but they're 15mm which won't fit. High-capacity 2.5" SATA SSDs haven't come down to the same $/GB as hard drives yet, at least for the budget/mainstream ones. For the SSD, I just can't decide if I need the higher speed that an NVMe drive gives, or just the higher capacity that I can get with SATA for the same price. (For now I'd lean toward SATA, I think.) -
Okay, I've got the Noctua NT-H1 paste, the new i7-6700K CPU, and the laptop apart.
Here's a pic, with with the heatsink removed, before uninstalling the incumbent i3-6100.
I used the paste application method in @HTWingNut's P870DM-G william tell style repaste video originally, using the TIM that came with my desktop's 212 Evo. This time, I'm considering using the X method.
I should have some 91% alcohol on hand, as well as a dryer sheet, coffee filter or paper towel for cleaning off the old paste.
Anything I should be aware of, suggestions, advice, etc?
Of course the fans & heat vents do need cleaning, too.(And is there a way to significantly slow the dust buildup? The laptop is only a year old but that looks more like I think 5-10+ years of dust buildup.)
I've also posted a topic on the LTT forum, laptop subsection.i_pk_pjers_i and Prema like this. -
omg that is definitely waaaay too much dust and clogging right there, no surprise your temps were so high... your environment seems pretty dusty so i would advise a repaste and thorough cleaning every 3 months in your case.
Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10MrSlippy, i_pk_pjers_i and steberg like this. -
Support.1@XOTIC PC Company Representative
As for cleaning, just keep a clean area around your computer helps and periodically clean out your system (every few months). If you notice your temps going up over time, maybe re-paste and clean again.jaybee83 likes this. -
I've cleaned it out
(although maybe there's a little room for improvement beyond that.) Hoping this paste application isn't TOO bad, it does look like a wee bit much, or is it fine? I think I'll go ahead with it - chances are by the time someone replies, I'll probably already have the laptop back together, up & running.
I'm hoping to figure out a way to be able to clean the dust out without taking the laptop apart, or at least without removing the heatsink. (My dad was showing me his Dell D830, how he cleans it out without taking it apart.)
I'll probably eventually have to take it apart & repaste, but I'm hoping this application lasts at least the 3 years that Noctua claims. -
Do the same with the heatsink fins.
Also looks like a considerable amount of paste being used there buddy
Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkLast edited: Dec 3, 2016 -
Maybe a paintbrush would help - I was using a vacuum brush that was the size of the fans. (I took the fans out of the laptop, but I brushed by hand, didn't use air. Also it was like 4am when I was doing it, and our air compressor isn't the quietest thing around.
)
Yeah, it might be a wee bit much paste.It's the first time I've worked with that particular paste.
I got some screenshots of aida64 & a few other benchmarks & things.
I'm noticing the system is idling in the low 50s°C when the fans are at defaults (usually low or off at that temp). Under load, it still gets into the upper 80s, and flirts with the mid 90s. Considering it's a considerably more power hungry CPU, and the temps are about the same under load, I think it's an improvement. The GPU is definitely improved - barely cracking the low 50s now even in firestrike. The disks seem to be doing pretty good on temps too. If I set the fans to full blast at idle, temps will get down in the upper 20s / low 30s. (Ambient is about 20°C or so.)
I did notice a fairly wide variation in CPU load core temps. One moment Core 0 might be 94C & core 2 might be 72C, then a minute or two later core 0 is 75 C while core 2 is 90 C, or something like that. Is that because my paste application has room for improvement?
I need to learn a better, quicker way to clean off thermal paste though - it took forever this time.I used 91% alcohol, coffee filters (and a couple paper towels & a previously used dryer fabric softener sheet), dabbing the alcohol on the filters (good thing I did it over the kitchen sink, it gushed out of the opening in the flip-up bottle cap), then wiping the wet filters on the parts to be cleaned, outside the laptop. Is there a better way to quickly get the initial main gunk off, THEN use the alcohol to finish off the residue? I don't remember it taking nearly so much effort the first time I cleaned it off - when installing the original i3-6100. (The pre-installed 970M already had paste, I had to clean it off upon removing the heatsink so I could install the CPU at that time.)
If I don't clean it before Christmas, I'll probably definitely want to before summer. Indoor ambient temps can easily reach 27-30°C/80-86°F, and have been known to get a little higher sometimes. I think we've even had 40°C/104°F indoors a few times in my life, although it's been at least several years since it's been that warm. Last time I remember it happening was when it was 47°C/117°F outside. Hitting 38-42°C/100-107°F outdoors is a semi regular occurence in summer.
Also on battery, it won't clock above 2.3 GHz - is that a power limit or something else? (Plugged in, it goes to 4, and aida64 stats says it's hit near 4.2.) And, Intel XTU still thinks I have an i3-6100 for some reason. Do I need to uninstall & reinstall, or update it, or what do I need to do? -
i_pk_pjers_i Even the ppl who never frown eventually break down
You've definitely done your research, the i7 6700k is definitely a massive upgrade from the i3 6100.
-
Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10i_pk_pjers_i likes this. -
With black friday sales coming up soon, I'm looking to do a CPU upgrade on my P750DM-G and I'm curious if anyone has a BIOS that will allow this to happen. I've heard rumors of a BIOS existing, but not with full functionality. All info will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you! -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
Not an official one, though a 6700K will still do very well.
Planning 6700K for P750DM-G (upgrade i3-6100, considered 7700K), thermal paste ?…
Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by pianoplayer88key, Nov 23, 2016.