Planning on getting a Sager soon... some questions

So the Dell laptop I've had for the past 6 years overheated and shut down the other day, and since then I've been getting random crashes due to memory corruption. I've been thinking about getting a new laptop for a while, and it looks like the time has come.

Anyway, I've been looking at Sager laptops for a while, and I'm fairly confident that my next laptop will be a Sager. I have some questions, however.

First of all, is there any news about when the next models will be out, and what changes or new features they will add? I can wait a while, if there are new models coming out soon that offer better features. I don't want to buy something only to have a way better model come out the next week (although that will probably end up happening anyway, as is always the case with technology).

As a student, I'd prefer a laptop with decent battery life. My current laptop only lasts about 30 minutes on battery, with the screen at lowest brightness and nothing but Firefox open, which makes it pretty useless when it's not plugged in. It would be nice to be able to have a laptop that I can bring to class, and preferably have it last through the 3 hour Psych101 lectures I have every week so that I can stay awake.

How much difference does Optimus make for battery life? It sounds like it would be a nice feature to have, but it doesn't look like the 6970 or 460/485M support it. Is it possible that the higher-end cards will support it in the next model of laptops?

I'm not much of a gamer these days. I used to be pretty hardcore, but I don't have much time for gaming now that I'm in University. I don't really need bleeding edge performance, because I'm sure that any of the laptops out today will completely blow away whatever performance I get with my current laptop (Core 2 Duo 2GHz, 2GB RAM, nVidia 8600M).

Most of what I do these days is programming, but I also do a bit of 3D rendering, video encoding, and occasional gaming. I want my laptop to last me at least until I'm done University (about 2 more years).

I run dual-boot with Windows 7 and Linux. How is Linux driver support?

Right now, I'm looking at the NP5165 with the following upgrades:
95% NTSC Color Gamut Matte screen
i7 2630M (is there any point in upgrading this?)
nVidia GT 555M (is this the highest-end card that currently supports Optimus?)
8GB RAM (maybe upgrade to 12?)
Blu-ray reader

I'd like to keep the cost between $1500-2000 US, after shipping and tax.

I don't need a hard drive. Are there any resellers that have the option of not including a hard drive? How much of a difference in price would this make?

Also, I'm in Canada. Are there any decent options for buying in Canada, or do I have to put up with the crazy shipping fees and stuff? Do any resellers offer student discounts or anything like that?

tl;dr version:
1. Any news on when the next generation of Sager laptops will be out? What new features will they have?
2. Optimus. How much of a difference in battery life does it make? What is the best card that supports it currently, what new cards will support it?
3. Linux driver support?
4. Does anyone give the option to not include a hard drive? What about shipping to Canada and student discounts?

 

Sandy Bridge is the "next generation" so don't expect there to be new features for a while, 2012 at the earliest. The only major update would be the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M making its way into some of the higher-end models to compete with the AMD Radeon 6970M.

Going to lump these two together because there is no support for Optimus on Linux, and NVIDIA has made no indication that they will ever provide it. In order to get proper Linux support, you will have to go with a system that has a fully dedicated GPU, such as the GeForce GTX 460M or higher, or any comparable AMD part. Something like the Sager NP8130 is a solid, not terribly expensive machine that would have full Linux support.

Reflex Notebooks is a Canadian reseller of Sager products. Most Sager dealers are pretty flexible when it comes to customizing systems. Contact them directly, and you can find out what they will and won't do.

As far as money off, there's usually 3% if you pay by cash/cashier's check/wire transfer, but otherwise margins on these machines are quite tight. Don't expect much, if anything, in the way of other discounts.

 

I'll answer the ones I know

If you're canadian and want to purchase a Sager than you have few options.
You can purchase from resellers like Malibal or Xoticpc in US and get it shipped to Canada.
That means if you ship UPS ground, you will have to pay taxes and brokerage fees to UPS wwhen laptop gets to your door, or you can ship expedited (around $130) and the brokerage fees are included and only tax needs to be paid and laptop gets to you faster, it is the best option for canadian.

If you want to purchase from Canada than I know of 2 resellers, both of which price match US resellers, which is a great thing.
Reflex Notebook Canada - Your Source for Sager Notebooks and Laptops in Canada
Canada Gaming Laptop | Canada Gaming Notebook | Custom Gaming Laptop Canada | Custom Gaming Notebook Canada | Canada Power Laptop | Canada Custom Gaming Laptop | Canada Custom Gaming Notebook

This will work exactly the same, as the laptop still gets to you from Sager assembly plant and you still have to pay taxes and brokerage fees.
However the Canadian company's have inhouse warranty service that might be interesting to you.

 

For what you need your laptop for the next generation models won't provide you with anything substantial.

If you're unsure if your Dell is having a memory issue check out Memtest before making any big purchases. Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool

As far as any questions go with border/custom issues here you go.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/548445-guide-buying-sager-canada.html#post7064489

Looks like everything else has been answered, any other questions you can PM, email, or post here, we'll all be glad to help.

 

So cards with Optimus won't work at all with Linux? That's... pretty bad.

I noticed that the NP5160 has a 6-cell battery, but the NP8150 has an 8-cell battery. Does this make a significant difference? What sort of battery life could I expect to get with an NP5160 using an nVidia 555M vs. an NP8150 with a 6970M, under idle conditions?

 

No. See https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee

 

That's promising. So it looks like that solution would at least make it possible to use the card with Linux, but it seems like both cards would be active so it wouldn't be very efficient?

I'm actually starting to lean towards getting an NP8150 with 6970M now, simply because it looks like a beast of a laptop. Maybe if I had a high-end gaming computer, it would rekindle my passion for gaming. And then my grades would drop. >_<

So does anyone know what the battery life of an NP8150 with 6970M would be under idle conditions? As long as it lasts around 3 hours, I think I'd be fine. Maybe I'd just get a spare battery, so that I could swap out if I need to use it for longer.

How much better is the performance of the 6970M vs. the nVidia 555M GT?

 

all that glitters is not gold. it sounds like you should look at the 5160/5 or 5175 to get a balance of performance, battery life, portability and keeping your grades up. the 8xxx series are heavier and barely meet your battery needs. they 540m/555m isn't bleeding edge or heavy duty but it will meet your needs. and all the money you saved you can spend it games and play them at lower setting than a 460m/560m/485m/6970m would allow.

 

The P150hm (8150) only gets 2.5 - 3.5 hours of battery on average. As for the 6970 vs 555m, the former is more than 2x faster than the latter.

 

Reading the documentation on the link provided, that would seem to be the case. It's an interesting bit of software engineering they have going on for Linux because with Optimus, the NVIDIA card is not physically connected to the display. In Windows, all data that runs through the NVIDIA GPU is routed through the Intel HD GPU that's built onto the CPU.

You'd probably get 3 hours if you kept the display brightness down and shut off most other things that would drain the battery (WiFi, Bluetooth, etc). Keep in mind also that moving up to a system with that powerful a GPU will require a beefy PSU. The 120W unit that comes with the Sager 5165 is quite large and heavy; the 180W one that the Sager 8150 requires will be even bigger.

Like putting a Shelby GT500 against a Ford Taurus.

 

what about the new taurus's? aren't they wanna be sports cars? not that they'd hang with a shelby still.

 

The SHO perhaps, not the garden variety car.

 

Is there any chance that the 580M (or whatever the new nVidia cards that are supposedly being announced soon) will support Optimus?

 

The high-end 4 series cards didn't support Optimus so there's little hope that the 5-series high end will be any better.

To clarify: 460m doesn't have Optimus for any of the laptops supporting the card, one of the US resellers on the other threads has indicated the 560m models won't be Optimus enabled despite what Nvidia advertised on their Computex presentation.

 

The Clevo W170HM & Clevo W150HM models will support the Optimus techology using the 560M.

Optimus Technology

EDIT: We will have to wait for an answer from one of the resellers to answer the question if the above models use Optimus technology with the 560M.

 

man that's going to upset a lot of w 1X0HM owners. they should come out with redesigns. i might've got a W150HM had they had optimus.

 

W150HM?
W150HNM has optimus
P150HM doesn't (which is a good thing)*

* let me rephrase this slightly more subtle: there are some pro's but also some definite con's to optimus

 

oops, got my p and w models mixed up.

 

Please share the cons to Optimus.

 

It doesn't work as it should according to user reports, it seems the technology is fine on principle but not always working as it should in practice. Something to do with the software governing the system not functioning efficiently.

 

So I'm sorta leaning towards this configuration now:

P150HM
15" FHD 95% Gamut Matte Screen
i7-2630QM
8GB RAM @ 1333MHz
Radeon 6970M
6x Blu-ray Reader
Intel 6230 Wireless
+ Spare 8 cell battery

Comes to just under $1900 US including shipping to Canada.

The benchmarks for the 6970M are too compelling.

I'm tempted to just buy this config. The only thing that's stopping me is the idea of having Optimus with the 560M or whatever high-end cards are coming out, but it doesn't look like that will happen any time soon.

So yeah, what do you guys think?

 

There's still no Optimus on P150HM and higher end models in the nearest future, so you're good to go

 

I noticed that a lot of vendors (Prostar, XoticPC, Malibal) seem to have the P150HM-S1 with 6970M and Blu-ray drive on sale for ~$150 off right now. Is there any reason for this?

 

The S1 is just a special configuration that is sold at a discounted price. It's basically how sale prices are handled on the hardware The S1 can change from time to time, and may last for a while or not long at all.

 

It's like the extra value meal of laptops. You're getting the burger (standard system) with fries and a drink (upgraded video card and Blu-ray) at a slightly lower price than if you were to buy each part separately on a base P150HM.

PS - As a side note, nice to see you spelled Blu-ray properly (capital B, hyphen, lower-case r).

 

What's wrong with bloo~Ray?

 

You'll be very satisfied with the 6970M.

 

I made a very similar order for the same price. I am very happy with my choice. I think you're specs and lappy are awesome!

 

That is a pretty awesome setup. I really like the performance on that 6970 ATI card, and that says a lot since I usually prefer NVidia myself!

 

Yes that setup should make you happy for some time to come...
_

 

Ordered. The wait begins...

 

is there "significant" speed difference between 8GB DDR3 SDRAM @ 1333MHz and the 8GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz if they are matched with i7 2603QM?

 

^ If the Sager supports XMP profiles, 1600 MHz RAM will be able to run at 1600 MHz on the 2630QM. Likewise, 1800 MHz RAM will be able to run at 1800 MHz on the 2720QM, which supposedly only "supports" up to 1600 MHz only.

 

maybe i should qualify "significant" and use the word "noticeable difference" between the 1600 mhz and 1333 mhz SDram

 

In a word, no. IIRC, you'd have to move up to the 2720QM to even start to see a difference. Even then it would only be a couple percentage points in largely synthetic tests. Save the money on this upgrade and put it toward a SSD or something else.

 

You won't notice any real world significant difference. Benchmarking- a slight difference, but that's it. It's most likely not worth the increase in price if you're just talking real world usage.

 

So I have a Seagate Momentus XT hard drive in my current Dell laptop that I'm planning on using in my new Sager laptop when it gets here.

Would it be a bad idea to just swap out the hard drives without formatting and reinstalling Windows? Would Windows be able to sort out the drivers if I just put my current hard drive in the new computer, or would it just end up being more trouble than it's worth? I'd prefer not to have to back up all my data and format my drive, but I'm guessing that would be the best thing to do.

Also, how are taxes calculated? Are they based on the shipping address, or the billing address? I'm having the laptop delivered to my home in Alberta, which has no provincial tax, but the address on my bank account is in Ontario. Will I get charged PST for Ontario even though the laptop is being sent to Alberta?

 

Yes, it would be a bad idea to do that, I wouldn't recommend it. Windows would recognize that it's a different system with different specs.

If you could, then people all over could just swap out and in hard drives with many copies of W7 without paying for it, or by paying for it only once.

Mr. Mysterious

 

It may work, but it's definitely not recommended. You may have to reactivate windows on boot though. The problem will be that you're going to have drivers and applications on there that won't be ideal. It's really recommended to do a fresh install to save the headache of trying to get it all to work again.

As for taxes, I can't speak to Canada. However, in the US, it's based on the shipping address.

 

I got it to work (using old HDD for new computer). Windows did ask me to reactivate, but it was just a simple 30 seconds of reverifying and things were just as normal. I did have to uninstall old drivers and install the new ones one by one, but that's a much less hassle than a fresh install.

 

If you are using Windows 7, there is a process where you can use sysprep prior to transferring the drive to a different machine. Sysprep will uninstall all the graphics drivers, and clear out a lot of system information that ties your OS to a specific computer. Then you just put in a new laptop.

 

I'm not certain if this is legal...

Mr. Mysterious

 

If you're running an OEM image, this may be against the ToS of the Windows install. Only retail disks will allow this, and only then if it's installed on just one machine per license. You may want to check your particular ToS to be sure.

 

Hmm..ok. Mine was a MSND Academic Alliance download copy (with DVD image), gotten for free b/c I'm a college student, so I don't know. I could always get another free 'purchase' if necessary.

 

That's the one I'm using as well. Worst case scenario, I can just get another copy from them and reinstall it.

Maybe I'll wait until my new laptop gets here, and then put the hard drive in and back stuff up from there. It should be a lot faster to move stuff to my external drives with eSATA.

 

Ah yes you may be right, I'm used to using volume licenses so its no problem. Honestly its best to always do a format and clean install, however If the requirement is to avoid formatting I believe sysprep is the cleanest way to migrate hard drives to a new machine.