Pros and Cons of the Sager/Clevo

I've been hearing lots of praises and complaints of this brand on these forums, right now as it stands, I do not have a Sager reseller where I am located, in Trinidad and Tobago, so if I am buying with Xoticpc, I have to make sure I'm not sending this laptop for repair every 6 months because it will become costly to me,

Just for my assessment, I would like a main pros and cons listing of the sager/clevo brand, preferably by someone who has an affiliation with them or even working with them. Please be truthful, once the cons are not extremely major, I will still consider buying the brand.

 

Try reading the reviews first to make your own mind about Clevo. The biggest con is that it's not a widely available brand, favoring other brands like Dell, HP and others.

 

Just talk to Justin he will tell you what are the pros and cons. He is fair, knowledgeable and runs miles to give proper support. You can't ask anything else from a shop.

My opinion, you probably already know.

Trance

 

Better ask dexgo.

 

pro's outweigh the cons.
think great desktop replacement that can play every game out there at top (if not just decent) settings (I ws thinking crysis there )
with only weight and fan noise being a problem, and they arent a problem to me, just to thin armed weaklings with sensitive hearing

ok the fans wouldnt be welcome in a library.....

 

According to Eleron, with the new fan firmware, its not bad for a library.

And weight is not a biggie... i mean the 579x at 8 lbs. is not much at all and only the 926x stands out with respect to weight and thickness(atleast in the the Clevo/Sager lineup) and really with the power that the 926x has, something has to give... atleast cooling isnt an issue....

 

Hey Sgt, you bear good news - I just bought an M57RU and I'm shocked at the fan noise. It uses TWO fans to blow cool air out of my lappy. Nice to keep myself cool in summer, but geez they're noisy.

Where oh where can I find this fabled fan firmware?

 

http://www.sagernotebook.com/information.php?information_id=7

Select the 5793 and then select the bottom most download called
KBC/EC Firmware.

Run the .exe and you'll find an ISO file. Burn that to a cd as an image an then boot off it and follow the directions.

Note: You might need to press f2 when your pc first boots up and change the boot order to cd/dvd in the bios.

 

http://64.208.175.44/pages/notebooks/download.cfm?ProductType=5792 it`s the last thing in the download list.
Burn it with Nero (using the burn image to cd , under the backup tab), restart laptop with the cd inside , press ok,wait,the read instructions, then either reboot or shut down the laptop and restart.
It`s all in the instructions set.
I personally think it`s the best firmware yet and they go well with a gaming laptop under the hood.

 

Pros:
Service
Bang for the Buck
Great Build Quality

Cons:
Costly in the UK
9262 8800m Problem

 

I cannot recommend the Sager 5793 or xoticpc.com enough....Build quality is awesome, 8800 GTX is FAST and even after playing Crysis on high settings for 2 hours, my laptop is only slightly warm....

 

I have a brand new M57RU and it's a well built machine, it makes you feel good to own it. But I have two main gripes already:

1. Fan noise.

Lots been said about that, but at the end of the day you need to decide if you want a laptop that sounds like a PC on your desk. That about how loud the constant fan is. Louder than your average laptop, loud enough to at least give you the same feeling as sitting next to a PC. Perhaps that makes this true desktop replacement.

When the fan decides to ramp up (try it by hitting Fn+1), it sounds more like a dustbuster (small handheld battery vaccuum cleaner). It amazes me anyone can enjoy a game with that going on, unless they're using headphones or at a noisy lan.

2. Poor rescaling in non-native resolutions.

I found this out yesterday, started a thread here. If you prefer working in lower than WUXGA res, consider whether the discolouration problem will bother you. It's not an issue with photos or movies, just flat colours and sharp edges (including text). My 4-year old ASUS M6N does a better job. The weird thing is it only borks from 1280x720 upwards. Below that, scaling is perfect. Strange.

I believe it's the GPU, as I had an HP 8710 before this, which had an nVidia 8700 GPU and it did the same thing (cutoff point the same too). Being a web dev / graphic designer of sorts, I don't like this at all. I returned the HP because of it, and seems I'll be returning this Clevo too. I'd hoped the 8800GTX in this machine would be a fix, but sadly not.

The fan issue isn't so bad, but, for me at least, non-native res performance is very important. I imagine it won't bother 99.9% of users out there. Not judging from the replies I got.

 

my d01c is loud too. but not like a dustbuster.

I have a projector a pc behind my head and my notebook sitting in this room.

all blasting fans.

it's loud in here for fan noise. but it seems to cancel eachother out.

it doesn't bother me.

 

No opinions are impartial otherwise it is not a good opinion

As for better princing depends if you pay import tax or not. If you pay import tax for instance in Europe I would say the price is not that far from a DELL. If eventually you have a problem and need to return it to the US to get fixed and the warranty does not cover shipping then easily the price of a Clevo is much higher.

On another note, if you buy it to a European reseller the price is definitly higher then a DELL.

I would say price advantages change according to location.

There is only one place it is clearly cheaper then a DELL, the US. The baseprice is usually $600 cheaper, and if we add the fact that customers don't pay consumers tax over tangible goods traded between states then the difference is higher if done that way.

Trance

 

there are however people with old clevo machines ordering another clevo on various threads

of course in the grand scheme of things , performance notebooks are only just coming into their own. they were so far and few between just a few years ago.

I remember a friend of mine getting a Tosh with a 4:3 15" screen and a geforce 4 for gaming, that was highly priced, and didnt perform as well as it could have.

its only as die sizes have shrunk and performance of chip code has increased that we can actually get decent sized gaming notebooks.

the 15" revolution happens this year with the alienware and the TU clevo.

so I can well imagine people flitting between manufacturers to find the best make,

after owning my notebook for 4 weeks or so now I can honestly say its better built than so many leading brand notebooks. I have used many over the years even though I have only actually owned one (acer) prior to this one.

Toshiba build sturdy notebooks

Dells are good as long as you dont want support
Acer flimsy, but well priced.
Sony, only any good if you buy their top end kit.
Nec, DONT BOTHER (packard bell included here)
Mistubishi (Pedion was an amazing idea, but soldering the battery onto the mobo wasnt!!!)
Compaq, solid, terrible spec/price,
hp/compaq seem to be improving but they need to get them custom voodoo laptops going now.
Fujistu/Siemens....have improved immensely over the years, very well priced.
MSI, good size/weight for spec, cooling could be better.

there are other brands i have come into contact with, Advent, Gateway etc, but only to support and repair them.

 

I enjoy mine, i enjoyed the discount I got with mine.

pro/

gfx card, built quality, support, upgradeablity, great cooling!

cons/

looks (subjective), size & weight

 

now now people keep it real,
all advice is good, in its own way.
Man I really hate it when people kick off over posts on a forum.

To be more constructive.
Dell who have managed directly and indirectly to 'insert expletive' me off over the years, would never get my custom no matter how shiny or fast their machine was.

1. Dell's delivery problems have their own forum artery on this site!!!
2. Dell's after sales customer service if you are not a corporate customer is diabolical. I speak from first hand experience.

3. they own alienware, just view the threads of the aw forums to see how many people see their products.

In short every manufacturer is going to have one or two problems, we have seen it with all computers over the years, right back to my vic20, spectrum, amiga etc etc.

performance differences have also always existed between different batches of the same parts never mind different manufacturers.
thats why they do extreme versions "golden samples" etc.

and a lot of the performance difference is a measly 100 3dmarks.....big deal.

I will always choose real OEM products over restrictive branded products any day.

 

On the other hand, _Dell does manage to turn out a fairly consistent product that does meet the needs/wants/desires of the average user, and they do it fairly well. The fact that _Dell has such a large business customer base attests to that fact. Nonetheless, _Dell is not a miracle-worker, as the volume of issues being raised on both the _Dell forum here, as well as on _Dell's own in-house forums, demonstrates.

And Clevo is not a miracle-worker, either. As I believe the motherboard upgrade problem with the NP9260/1 demonstrated, Clevo still puts too much reliance on old, outdated designs for many of the unsexy parts of the systems that underly all of the glitzy parts we focus so much on - the CPUs and GPUs and HDD space.

Quite frankly, notwithstanding that still I think NVidia pulled a bit of a fast one by deciding to make most of the 8800M card in-house, and to not provide support for the EDID-less displays that the majority of the notebook industry has used for years and continues to use, from the cutting-edge technology point of view Clevo dropped the ball on that point because they had, in fact, been warned in the MXM specifications (ok, more like still just strong hints, tho' the hints' are getting stronger ) that MXM-compliant systems using SLi would have to have better display support and could no longer rely on the ROM-BIOS or interrupt methods that have historically been used to provide EDID data to notebook video adapters.

Of course, the non-binding nature of that specification is demonstrated by the fact that 8700Ms in SLi did not suffer from the same motherboard issue, so dropping support for the customary EDID-less displays used by most of the notebook industry was not a necessary requirement of the underlying technology, and the fact that the 9261 mobos were retrofitted instead of the display units themselves being replaced suggests that having a display that provides its own EDID data is not a sine qua non to support 8800Ms in SLi.

Still, a company with a truly thorough-going commitment to cutting edge technology would have gotten itself way ahead of that curve by making the needed changes to the motherboard before rather than after it became an issue to buyers.

Along these same lines, another point that is not sufficiently appreciated, although dexgo did point it out in one of his posts yesterday, is that Clevo appears to use, at least on the 9262, a very gelded BIOS in which most of the available options have been locked out. Now, there may be very good reasons for having locked most of those options out, which raises its own concerns because that suggests that there is an undisclosed frailty in the hardware that has to be protected via BIOS-lockout, but in the absence of evidence of such frailty, it suggests, once again, that Clevo is relying on an old BIOS that was originally written for lower-end mass-market systems (e.g., my vaio, which has a similarly gelded BIOS ), and that has been merely tinkered with enough over the years in order to provide the minimum BIOS support necessary to get the new high-end systems like the 5793 and 9262 up and running. Again, that is not consistent with the concept of a truly cutting-edge technology company.

EDIT: Another item that BOFH1971 points out on another thread is that the 5793 at least is still using standard issue notebook fans instead of the more sophisticated fans that are out there - again, this is an indication of too much reliance on the old infrastructure that used to go into making plain-vanilla systems at the behest of OEMs like _Sony for the mass-market. The redesign of the case from the 5791/2 to the 5793 is welcome, but the fans should have been upgraded to more sophisticated fans at the same time.

Hopefully these issues are merely the toddlers' mis-steps of a fledgling high-end notebook company that, in the fullness of time, will provide truly cutting-edge technology; however, as with everything else in the computer industry, I'll believe it when I see it; until then, we all need to avoid irrational exuberance.

 

"Naturally if he's seen the light, then why can't anyone else?"

Lolol that was funny

If one sticks to the facts he/she has that is ok (positive or negative). Seeing the light is more of a religious metaphore that I don't comply either way, but it is funny.

I have owned, an HP, a DELL and a Toshiba (Tablet PC). Now I have a Clevo. The later is the first high end gaming laptop I got.

The only one that has not given me hardware problems is the Toshiba (I still use it). Both HP and DELL gave me some hardware problems that were solved in less the 2 weeks. But none of them of have shown problems (LCD ribbon etc) in the first year. Clevo on the other end showed problems right on the first 1.5 weeks.

This is worth what is worh. Personally I believe that any lappy can give hardware problems, it is a matter of luck. As long as the supplier solve them quickly it is fine for me. Nevertheless it is refreshing to see that Toshiba as never gave a problem, and I let it fall on the ground hard enough to break the LCD front cover, but it is stil running fine

As for motherboard upgrades I just wished that I knew (or believed) bedore buying one that the practice is an integral part to understand what Clevo means by upgradeable. Which as not what the industry understands as common. Nevertheless this is not my biggest issue.

Talking about gaming systems. In the market we have these brands proposing different systems:

Clevo
Alienware
Dell
Asus
Toshiba
Gateway

Personally I can testify, that Asus really runs miles to get the customer the best drivers, BIOS and VBIOS ( G1S, G2S and G90). They do more then fixing issues by publishing new software that unlocks new functionality or improve the current ones.

By reading the DELL XPS M1730, I can see that DELL follows the same lead. They take on the responsibility of improving the gaming experience after the sale. At least with their gaming systems. This is very important IMHO concidering the investement.

Allthough Toshiba builds very robust and stable systems, hardly they publish new software (drivers, BIOS and VBIOS) that improve the customer experience. This is at least what I know over their business laptops. Gaming and multimedia I don't have experience on that.

Clevo has been in the laptop gaming arena for quite awhile. It has been producing the fastest systems in a nich market with very little competition until DELL got in the business. The manufacturer does publish new BIOS versions to fix some issues. But it does not publish the same to unlock or improve the gaming experience in anyway what so ever with the d901c. For instance my 8700M GT SLi problem is well known but no visible effort is put to improve the situation.

For the people that totally digress from me, I can give just a tiny little example of this. Considering that Clevo is in the market since the beginning how hard it could be to offer their customer some tailored tools to monitor the temps and overclock their video cards. As software developer I can testify that once you know the hardware, the difficulty is next to none. Instead we have to rely on this forum to get any good info about it, thanks to many people, especially Gophn. You take your conclusions about the culture behind this practice.

Finally. Depending on your supplier hardware support can be either good or bad (Sager/Powernotebooks/XoticPC are the best in the US). Or even it depends on the person who answers the phone or the time of the day unfortunately.

Outside the US, the problems that a d901c might have plus the lack on going effort to solve, unlock and improve the feature set in comparison with others I would say that the price is beyond reason. In others words, considering the flock of brands that I mentioned, the Value for Money Rank would be very low if not the lowest of them all in the very high end systems such as d901c/M570RU-U, the XPS 1730.

Some months ago I wrote that if you want sheer performance (as I do) Clevo d901c has no competition. But not today. The market is changing fast and today other things come into play when evaluating a system. Things such as the one I mentioned. Wether you care for them or not that is for you to answer before buying any system.

Trance

 

indeed I admitted that dell does produce good kit, its all about customer service too though, being treated THAT badly by both Dell and Alienware, is just not on.

But looking through the build of my M570RU, its certainly a well built chassis, never mind the assembly done by the shop that resells it.

this is however becoming a moot point as everyone seems polarised on their views on the matter.

yes of course from time to time people have bad experiences with machines, but at least spare parts are going to be more forthcoming if anything does go out of warranty on my machine.

 

I think most of things depend on luck.You have to start with the time a chip or a core is made.It's made as a wafer and cut off into die and then packed as the core of a CPU/GPU.Even the same dies one wafer has different properties though not very different.And some of them are faulty yet passed on as the company needs to make a margin or the engineer decides so.
I work in a semicon industry and know the odds.

I have owned a couple of notebooks.The first one was a Acer with radeon card.It had a P4 processor and it still runs well after 5 years and never had a problem except a loose keyboard cable.I have had a few other laptops I posession and have witnessed their performance and life with friends.My friend also bought an acer and it works without problems after about 3 years.Another friend of mine bought an HP and the DVD drive exploded shattering the CD inside.My last laptop was a Sager and it was like new after 2 year.Very fast and never gave me any problems and appear solid.Yes I do take care of them well ,monitoring temps cleaning etc etc.

Two things to point out Dell has good warranty options.I have never owned a XPS.But they look cool.Sager is solid and I cannot say anything bad about them.

Hope this helps.I still believe luck is a big factor.

 

My last laptop was a m1710 it was awesome! in every single way. nothing bad to say about it. I built it from scratch every single one from spare parts.

I knew it inside and out.

I only had it for less than 8 months though. modded it until I couldn't mod it anymore then sold it for 2k on ebay with an hd dvd drive and blu ray burner.


My laptop before than was an sager 5680 p4 3.2 ati 9600 pro.

it almost lasted the test of time but the screen bezel area cracked and this was a known issue about this gen of laptop.

now I have the d901c

IT leaves Alot to be desired.

oddly enough I'm not as impressed of this as I was with my m1710 previously.

The screen doesn't cut it. and actually even in the dark it isn't as bright and always leaves me thinking this every time I use it.

then theres the CPU, it looks like it isn't as powerful as the mobiles that are higher clock frequency and they have better more refined bioses.

finally they let the RUs overclock but WHY NOT THE d901c??

it has the best cooling.

I thought that this notebook they would get it right. but maybe the next gen will have better screen, allow for overclocking.... and have the USB PORTS spread evenly around the chassis. -Having all 4 on the same side, and on the right side no less... is a huge pain.

 

Are all new sager 5793 notebooks shipped with the proper and updated firmware? I'm ordering from Xotic PC once I get other matters sorted out. Just curious.

To the OP, from what I've read and been told, XoticPC is an excellent place to do business with. Just thought I would pass that on.

 

Sager 5793 owner here.

As far as the company, Sager seems ok. The drivers on their site are fairly up to date, and they are trying to address the fan noise complaints which is a good thing. They are also at least offering these beastly gaming-centric rigs with 8800M GTX's and really making viable desktop replacements for this generation. They were REAL fast with the Penryns! The cost is also hard to beat, for the power the price is very fair.

I've only had my Sager a couple of months, so I can't say too much bad about them yet. Their website (with all the drivers) does appear to be hosted on the moon, as it's incredibly slow for me currently. Luckily Clevo has their own considerably faster site. No BIOS there for my 5793 tho ; ;. The lack of XP64 drivers is kinda depressing, but it's not unusual as the industry is working awfully hard to blow off this awesome and very useful OS for reasons I cannot understand.

For my laptop specifically, The 5793 is suprisingly good. I *really* like the keyboard, it has a solid, very responsive feel that I was immediately comfortable with. There is something very solid under the keyboard apparently, as I don't get any mushy "plastic bending under the board" feeling like I do on other laptops (even my Macbook Pro has this). The screen is also excellent, it's glossy 1920x1200. The colors 'pop' and are vibrant, and not a dead pixel in sight. The audio however is kind of weak. Even for laptop sound I've come to expect better audio, my Dell and Macbook Pro are considerably better in this respect.

(The 5793 also does a decent job running OS's it's not supposed to run, which is a plus I won't get in to here in public ^^)

 

Cancel my last post.

I love my d901c

Now that I can Overclock the processor, I am totally in awe of it. now and it does all I want now.

 

I`ve had my sager since September 07. Only 1 issue, the audio jack died.
Other than that, the thing is awesome. When I felt that it was too noisy I reacted and pretty much pressed the door for a new firmware on and on.
And finally it`s pretty much the best non SLI 17 inch gaming laptop out there.

 

One other thing, If anyone has been following hte firmware issue, you will be noticing how Sager took action so promtly to fix the problem. Their CS is amazing.