Q9450 for NP9262

Any word on the Q9450 (Yorkfield) processor being available for the NP9262 ?

I assume reports that the Q9450 is compatible with the NP9262 are still correct.

Intel now list the Q9450, Q9550 and Q9300 on their website ( http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart.aspx?mmID=33883,33882,33881&familyID=1&culture=en-US)

Are we still waiting on an actual availability date for the chips from Intel ?

Justin ? Paladin ?

 

Short answer...yes!

 

Have Clevo or Sager confirmed the Q9450 chip is compatible with the NP9262 ?

Or will we be looking at an NP9263 ?

 

It will probably be another version, but who knows. I say: new version. They'll probably say: same one. We'll just see. A redesign wouldn't hurt.

 

I am sorry no confirmation has been provided yet. As soon as we get the info you all will be the first to know.

 

Any news ???

Palladin says : Short answer...yes!

I think Q9300 sould be better than the q6600 for thermal spec and with 2.5Ghz ??? or I'm wrong...

I "need" a new laptop, I'm working in CG industry and I'm looking at the 9262, because of it's performances...

So I just want to know if the 9262 is working with at leat a Q9300 or better a Q9450 for lower power... More battery live and less temperature...


Sorry my English s**ks, I m a French frog


Best regards...

 

We are still awaiting the confirmation. Paladin was stating we are still "waiting on an actual availability date."

 

So, we should take your statement to mean that you have not heard anything regarding compatibility, and not that you are simply being forced to play mum on account of your NDA, correct?

 

I am saying Sager has not made a official statement regarding it. As soon as Sager does you all will be the first to know.

 

Thanks Justin.

 

I am still waiting for the mobile quads

 

Me 2. ES is enough for me.

 

So I have to wait a little bit more

It's very hard to resist...


Just another question, does the Qx6700 Works with the sager 9262 ? I've got one and I don't want to sell it...

Best regards..

 

Somebody better tell me an ETA. I have $$$ to burn, and this itch needs to be scratched NOW!!!!!!

 

December 43, 2012.

 

Whew... it's that all? Okay, as long as I know it will be 4 years into the hyperdimensional future!

 

Indeed (+10char)

 

Clevo better hurry up with the Q9450's in the NP9262.

The display on my 3 year old HP nx7010 has tonight decided to go kaput (everything works fine on an external monitor), so I will be in the market for a new laptop sooner than expected.

 

The reason I'm asking for an ETA is because I need the D901C asap. Can I expect the Q9450 in Q1-2008, Q2-2008, Q3-2008, Q4-2008, or 2009? If it's next month, GREAT, no problem. If it's not, then I'm going to have to settle and hope the BIOS can support the Yorkfield with a BIOS update (fingers crossed).

 

Déjà vu, all over again - hasn't this been posted elsewhere? At any rate, the short answer is: here, you can borrow a pair of mine.

 

I for one would also like an answer/update on this too, I am just waiting for news before I buy.

From my experience working with hardware devs: No news is generally bad news. They tend to not release information on the progress of an update if it will require major hardware updates, that way they don't hurt current sales of the unit.

I urgently need to purchase a laptop but am sitting on the money for a D901C with SLi. I have to answer questions from my super and lab sponsors before I can take the plunge, one of the questions they have is support for the newer desktop processors.

Here is to hoping for good news and soon...

 

They are currently debugging the 45nm processor version so it has not yet been released.

If you are in a lab, I am sure you can understand that you can never predict how long this process may take. Just rest assured they are working on it diligently and will release it as soon as they can.

 

Actually, Sager and Clevo seem to be a rather conservative, close-mouthed group when it comes to making statements about things in the works (the exception, as far as I know, being them giving the impression that the original 9260 with 7950s would be upgradeable to the 8800Ms without a major hardware revision - perhaps that fiasco has chastened them). One example being support for the quad-core CPUs - even while more adventuresome sellers (Eurocom and PCMicroworks come to mind) were slapping quad-cores into D901s, Clevo and Sager kept their peace and bided their time until they were satisfied that the CPU would actually work. That, rather than overly optimistic gun-jumping, seems to be their basic modus operandi.

So, silence doesn't necessarily mean bad news; unfortunately, it also doesn't mean good news - it just means we have to bide our time, and try to wheedle as many hints as we can out of those in the know who post on these forums.

 

Shyster1, the exception you reference is totally untrue. Sager NEVER represented or gave any impression that the NP9260 would be upgradeable to the 8800M.

In addition, I almost wore out my fingers telling anyone who asked that question that there was no way to tell whether a video card that didn't even exist yet could be used in the NP9262. Sager and PowerNotebooks.com consistently said that until it had been released and tested no one could know whether it would work or not.

 

Both you and Justin definitely earned plenty of rep for your attentiveness to the issue and your efforts to temper the irrational exuberance of many on the forum, and I am willing to concede that even the word "impression" may be too strong; however, the fact remains that the phrase "user upgradeable" was associated with the 9260/7950GTX package.

Now, I hope that my track-record here justifies my claim that I am anything but a Clevo/Sager basher, so perhaps the use of that phrase should be best chalked up to language differences that, in effect, conflated "upgradeable" with "removable" or "swappable" (because whatever else might have been true, it is undeniable that a faulty GPU could be easily swapped out with a new one - something that, in and of itself, is an innovation vis-a-vis notebooks). Be that as it may, it appears to me that someone used the word "upgradeable" without being sufficiently sensitive to all of the myriad connotations that word has to native speakers of American English.

Ultimately, there's no need to ascribe blame or fault to anyone in order to draw the conclusion that words can have an inordinate effect on people, and that the wise ODM/OEM will eschew promises and forecasts until the goods are in hand. That, in a nutshell, was the gist of what I was saying earlier about Clevo/Sager; if anything, I think the lessons learned have made them even more reticent.

 

That phrase was never advanced by Sager or PowerNotebooks.com regarding the 9260/7950GTX package.

Please understand that I am not wordsmithing here, I am just stating that if that phrase was associated with the Sager NP9260 it was by those other than Sager or PowerNotebooks.com

 

everyone was lead to believe.

CLEVO is daddy, and they did it then.

children are the byproduct of their parents mistakes.

I remember them touting the upgrade.

then ICE-T saying FIRST that they needed a new MOBO.

then they confirmed.

 

No one was touting the fact that it was upgradeable, they were touting the fact that it would be the platform for multiple enthusiast level cards in a notebook package.

 

The impression was certainly given that it would be upgreadable, first by using the word "user upgradable" and also by constant mention of the MXM IV standard. In the end it turned out that that standard is not really a standard.

 

Sager/Clevo are conservative ? They announced and started selling 8800m SLI three months before it was ready, took a lot of preorders and in the end shipped computers with one card and only now it is possible to upgrade to SLI.

Compare this to Dell, they announced 8800 for M1730 on the day it was actually available to buy.

Frankly, I would not at all be suprised if the new Penyrn processors require a new motherboard revision for 9260.

 

Let's not go over this again. It is true that Powernotebooks never told us that the original d901c would be upgradeable to the 8800M GTX, or to QUADS without internal modifications.

Actually I'm quite surprised that the motherboard supporting Quads can eventually support the new 45nm CPU's with a "simple" BIOS upgrade. Suprised and disappointed as It seams that this would be an opportunity to possibly update the chipset. Since in my case to upgrade the video cards I'll need to buy a new motherboard, I was hoping we could get better tech with it not just the same tech with a fixed MXMIV interface/chipset.

Trance

 

Impressions are in the eyes of the beholder, and the beholder quite often misinterprets things to fit their desires.

"user upgradeable" was never used by Sager or PowerNotebooks.com.

Please do not attribute what others may have done to either company.

MXM IV is correct, but if anyone thinks that it automatically means that you can therefore upgrade to yet to be released video cards for years to come, they simply do not understand that until a video card is released and tested there is NO WAY for anyone to know whether it will be supported or not.

All MXM IV means is that the card is not soldered to the motherboard, but instead fits into a slot similar to a memory slot. Cards are standardized to pin array, size and shape so that they can be physically removed and replaced easily into the slot on the motherboard. Anyone who interprets that to mean that because the card will "fit" that it will also be supported by the chipset, motherboard, cooling system, and power supply simply does not fully understand the meaning of MXM technology.

 

"All MXM IV means is that the card is not soldered to the motherboard, but instead fits into a slot similar to a memory slot."

Humm cof cof. I've read the spec, and the word upgradeable appears several times on it, especially on MXM type III and type IV. So it is not that we are imaginating things induced by our desires. That is not a very elegant remark. Actually the spec, includes functions of the chipset (some optional, some required), so don't separate the two.

Trance
PS: No interface comes without a chip or chipset (USB, PCI, PCIe, AGP etc etc)

 

Even though the word upgradeable appears several times, to interpret that to mean that one can upgrade forever because it is MXM is simply stretching the intended meaning, and the capabilities of the technology.

 

Humm Paladin what you are saying is common sense, and I fully concur.

But the fact is that a system that supports without motherboard replacements only two video cards (8700M GT and Go 7950 GTX) is upgradable nexto nothing. That is not what we as customers understand when we see the word upgradable.

Anyway this is subject to interpretation as we now would go over a philosphical interpretation around how many video cards would it need to support to be upgradable. Nevertheless as man of common sense one would not of course go that way.

What is not subject to interpretation is this.

Today when we go to the Clevo website (has most of us go) and we read the spec of "our" systems it states all the cards that it supports under the label d901c. Well if mine is a d901c why doesn't it support the 8800M GTX? That is a question that common man used to buy PC and laptops from other companies would think. Maybe is the MXMIV right?

In fact before I bought my Clevo I've read the spec of the previous models, and checked the date when those models were launched. I was impressed by the number of cards that it supported since some of them were not even avaiable at the launch. That alone misleads customer to think that the same model without change have been supporting an increasing number of cards which is in fact not true.

Sager follows a different practice. For each motherboard revision it defined a different model but in the same range. That seams reasonable since motherboard need to be replaced. But please understand that there are many Clevo resellers, all of them with different labelling schemes. So a lot of us use as reference the one offered by Clevo.

You may say we shouldn't. Well, maybe you are right. But today for instance some companies are offereing the d901c with the CPU being discussed on this thread. Should I now follow the Clevo spec as reference?

Let's not play with the market that way.

Trance
PS: I understand that Sager and Powernotebooks and XoticPC give 5 start service as far as I was told. I also understand that Sager labeling scheme is what Clevo should use. So it is not that Sager is doing this or that but it does benefited indirectely from synergies being generated, some of them not based on straight information.

And I argue that this is done on purpose to fake an edge over the competition. Not by Sager and their resellers but by the over all Clevo ecossistem. Otherwise I find no real justification for such a labelling scheme as it is not common at all on other manufactures/system builders such as IBM, TOSHIBA, DELL, etc etc etc.

 

DFTrance, I respect what you say, but it has one serious flaw. That is that you are "interpreting" trying to use common sense instead of asking, and your interpretation stretches credibility to match your desire.

The fact is that you agree that "upgradeable" cannot mean that you can upgrade forever just because it is MXM, so using all of your best skills in reading specs does not overcome the fact that logic says that if it cannot be upgradeable forever means that it may not be upgradeable to the very next video card upgrade.

History shows us that every new high end video card requires more power and creates more heat...therefore to interpret "upgradeable" to mean that you can upgrade to the next not yet announced or released video card, or any beyond the next released video card simply...err, what did I say before..."...is simply stretching the intended meaning, and the capabilities of the technology."

One thing I hope we can agree on is that the use of the word "upgradeable" borders on a sin, and should never have been used by those writing the spec, or those trying to sell MXM technology to mean something that is not supported by reality.

 

Well Said Trance, and I don't fault you for buying into the mobo upgrade thing.

you go ahead and buy the new mobo with 8800m's and then a new mobo upgrade comes out.

you know it will...

Dell, is the only brand That has Upgradeable Videoards Within Generations.

Without MOBO upgrades.

they promised the m1730 as is would support NEW CPU's and new Vid Cards an lo&behold they did.

 

"One thing I hope we can agree on is that the use of the word "upgradeable" borders on a sin, and should never have been used by those writing the spec, or those trying to sell MXM technology to mean something that is not
supported by reality."

Fully agree. common sense does not work with Clevo. Unfortunately I had to spend almost $5000 to learn that, Anyway I'm happy with my system and try hard to forget the fact that I've spent that amount of money on it. I honestly thought that I could mantain it up to date.

Yep, dexgo, it seams that common sense can be read over DELL information. That is called predictability.

Forgeting the money I spent I'm happy with my Clevo so I face a dillema. Either I sell my system now for €2000 and buy a DELL with more 700 Euros. Or I wait until the 8800M GTX go down in price and by them then with the mobo upgrade.

Trance

 

dexgo, do you have any posts to prove that prior to 8800M users were able to receive the cards from Dell and upgrade? I have never read such a post, therefore just I'm asking (curiosity).

 

In DELL's case users don't receive the cards and do the upgrade themselfs, but they need to send the notebook to DELL for them to do the upgrade. But this process is clear. It is also clear that the upgrade costs you no more then the cost of the video card if it is under warrantie.

As for Clevo's case, unless you replace the motherboard yourself and put the laptop back up together like lego that I highly doupt that more then 1% do it, it is just the same. In fact, the option to do it yourself It might not even be there depending on you supplier. So let's not pretend here.

If the case was just of the video card, then yes much more then 1% would do themselves. So I don't see any advantage here as your question might suggest.

Indeed it seams that the real advange of Clevo for the end customer is that you can open you lappy to clean the dust without voiding your warrantie or satisfy curiosity.

If when people make a "yes" or "no" question regarding upgrades the answer is "might", it reveals to be "no" 100%, it can be considered a white lie (I don't like them). Indeed that "might" is there just to keep a façade.

Now I believe that it is the case were resellers or shops (Powernotebooks, XoticPC etc) don't know the big business plan so doesn't know the definite answer so "might" (or don't know) its is the only answer that can be given. So I can only concluide that is pushed by Clevo procedures by only sharing information at last minute.

But someone on Clevo +-2 months before the launch knows the answer. That answer is not revealed to the shops or to the customer to keep the "upgradable" façade, in order words to spin the market.

Don't even try to makes us believe otherwise. Today, Clevo already knows if a BIOS upgrade or a motherboard replacement is necessary to fullly support the 45nm CPU if it intends to market thos CPU's in less then two months. It would be foolish not to. IMHO is not just sharing that info with us to confuse everyone once again about possibilities, and to avoid having a warehouse full of mobos that don't have a buyer.

Trance

 

With respect, that is not what was said at the time. Users would naturally compare the MXM IV standard to AGP or PCI Express video standards, where, any card that fits in those slots work. Users cannot be expected to go to nVidia site and download and read technical specifications in order to determine what MXM IV really stands for. This is evident not only on this forum, but on other forums on this site (eg. Alienware), where users have made the assumption that because 8800 is MXM IV it should fit in their notebooks, where in fact it does not. I am not saying this is unique to Clevo, Alienware has the same problem, so the problem lies in nVidia's court.

However, you will have to admit that Clevo has a history of producing new motherboards for every change they do; just look at the history of 5790 and 9260 models. Other manufacturers do not operate in this way and are more consistent with their models. Dell, to their credit, has allowed upgrades of video cards and processors through their XPS laptop range. They are not using MXM IV but instead their own design, and it seems that that was the better decision.

So, given the previous history of 9260, it is only natural to assume that Penyrn processor will require a new motherboard. This would make sense from the technical perspective as well, since the chipset in 9260 does not officially support Penryn or the new 1333 MHz FSB speeds

 

Wondering if anybody bught any D901C from europena seller. Some of them laready are selling the it with 45 nm proc.

 

I will freely admit to not having any actual knowledge of _Dell's internal service procedures; however, what you've just stated - users send the system in, and _Dell does the "upgrade" for the cost of the card (which cost though, wholesale, industry retail, or _Dell's special marked-up retail?) - is perfectly consistent with _Dell also doing a little extra monkeying around while they're inside to make the same sort of modifications Clevo had to make to the motherboard of the 9261 to turn it into an ersatz 9262.

As for cost - that's very easy to demonstrate - _Dell customers pay a premium for their systems up-front, and, depending on how much that premium is, they have already paid for the other associated costs of an upgrade before there's any chance of knowing whether or not that upgrade will be available, or whether those associated costs they've already paid for will in fact be incurred by _Dell - if those costs are never incurred, then _Dell just gets free money.

I did some simple numbers on this a few months back and posted them somewheres here, and the fact of the matter is, given the additional cost 9261 owners were asked to pay for the motherboard upgrade alone (i.e., factoring out the cost of the GPU itself), the net present value of that additional cost paid by 9262 owners fits quite comfortably into the upfront premium paid by the _Dell owners.

That basically tells me that there is little or no difference between the actual cost of the upgrade to either _Dell or Clevo owners, and most likely little difference between what actually gets upgraded. About the only difference I can see is that, like the Wizard of Oz, _Dell hides the whole process behind a curtain, and implicitly tells its customers not to look at the "man behind the curtain," whereas, with Clevo, you get to see all of the mechanics of the process.

Now, I don't know about everyone else, but I'm sick and tired of getting the kid-glove nanny treatment from the major brands - gilded cages are nice, until you try to get out of them; I would much rather see the naked process itself, and be able to decide at the time an upgrade is actually available whether or not I want to pay for it, instead of having half the cost of that upgrade disguised as part of the original purchase price, which I paid at a time when there was no idea whether or not the upgrade would be available - if the upgrade actually materializes, that's great, but if it doesn't then the money paid upfront was just thrown into the garbage.

 

In Europe a M1730 is cheaper than 9260 by a considerable margin, altough admittedly it comes with a slower processor.

Remember that, even though Dell may have higher list prices, no-one actually pays that. There are always deals and discounts, it is quite easy to get 10 - 20% of a Dell.

Also, it is actually possible to buy the 8800m card from Dell and install it yourself, in fact there is a user on Dell forums who has made videos about that. Look in the M1730 thread in the Dell forum. No modification of the computer or motherboard is required, you virtually take out the 8700 and put 8800 in.

 

Well, I suppose that's one benefit to the Bernanke-Put - letting the US dollar deflate is good for _Dell's sales.

Hmmm, I've got two pieces of fruit, and they're exactly the same, except, well... one's an apple and one's an orange. But, on the bright side, they're both round (sorta, since the fruit companies keep getting closer and closer to the square-gene).


Hmmm, list price is $X, but only an idiot pays list because, well, there's always deals and discounts - sounds like a confidence game to me - if the real price _Dell's willing to accept for its wares is $(X-Y), then, it seems to me, were they an honest and upright business, they'd simply set the list price at $(X-Y); that they don't, well.....

Well, that's very nice that _Dell managed to eke out a GPU swap that didn't require a motherboard upgrade; however, all that does is take away my titillating little side point about _Dell doing a sneaky mobo upgrade at the same time. The fact remains that, based on the numbers that I have available to me, and giving _Dell the benefit of the doubt (which is getting harder and harder to do) and taking them at their word by using the list prices that are available to me on their website when I configure a system and price it, the premium that's tacked onto a Dell with the same material components (e.g., CPU) still generally equals or exceeds the risk-weighted net present value of the additional cost - the excess over the cost of the GPU itself - of the Clevo upgrade (i.e., by discounting from the date of upgrade back to the date of original purchase). That was my primary point, and that stays untouched.

Look, I don't per-se hate _Dells. And, in point of fact, there are many ways in which a _Dell is the better buy; but most of those ways have more to do with having your hand held and being buffered from the raw machine itself - it's a very comfortable experience, until you actually try to get down into the internals and start mucking around with the equipment; at that point you find that (a) _Dell's proprietary stuff makes many things unnecessarily difficult, and (b) many things that you should be able to get at, both h/w and s/w, have been locked away from you for your own good.

Anyone ever driven one of the ersatz "manual"/auto transmissions that were all the craze in, for example, BMW a few years ago? Or ever driven a stick-shift with a built-in rpm limiter to "protect" the engine against over-revving? Neither is really a "manual" drive car, and each has limitations that were imposed by the maker based on what the maker thought you should be doing, not what you actually do.

The worst is the ersatz manual/automatic transmission - it doesn't even actually disengage the automatic part, all it does is wait a little longer to see if you're going to move the lever to let it shift, and if you don't, it goes ahead and shifts automatically for you.

The rev-limiter isn't so clearly obnoxious, but it still ends up interfering with the ability to actually drive a car outside of the four-lane commuter mode the designers seem to have had in mind when they came up with it.

All in all, I would rather take the risk of blowing up my own engine because I revved it too far (or misjudged how far it could actually go, and for how long), than be captive to the limitations that some designer thought should be imposed. That, to me, is one of the basic differences between a _Dell and a Clevo.

 

This is my last post on this thread. People that participate in this forum come from all parts of the World. So basically this view on this depends on their local reality. It all comes down to the local cost of a Clevo.

Myself I come from Portugal and I'm European. As such it is cost effiecient for me to by from any country in th EU. I'll use dUS ollars in all prices buy converting the local currency.

Clevo d901c (8800M GTX SLI)
SLI: ~$3718 (US), $5120 (EU), $ 5197(CAN) - all with Q6600 CPU

DELL XPS M1730 (8800M GTX):
SLI: $4359 (US with T9500 CPU), $5000 (EU with T9500 CPU), $4321(CAN, with X9000 CPU & BlueRay!!!!!)

In my case (EU) the price difference is next to none if we don't mind the CPU. Indeed the DELL is cheaper. Having said this, I was hoping that upgradability of the d901c could compensate for the fact that DELL service is superior in Europe, but that is not the case.

In your country, take your conclusions.

The difference in the US from one to another is around $650 if we don't mind the difference in the CPU.

In Canada DELL smashes fully the price of the d901c condering the prices of Eurocom for the d901c. I was quite surprised about the DELL XPS M1730 in Canada. Well if I was there right now and was having doupts about what to go for I will just click the buy button right now in the DELL site. The price this lappy overthere is amazing!!! Beating both the EU and the US price (X9000 plus Blue ray at that price, wow)( http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1730?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs).

@Shyster
Considering this would you say that the DELL premium value as you put it includes the mobo swap as you speculated?. I think in Clevo there is too much speculation around almost everything. It just happens that in the US Clevo is cheaper then the DELL proposition, but that is unique to the US. In all other countries DELL is cheaper. I agree with you it this is due to demand (in US demand of Clevo is superior then any other countery), but in the end of the day as a customer what matters is what I pay.

To convert currencies I used this: http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html

Trance
PS: For the d901c prices were taken from, www.powernotebooks.com (US), www.eurocom.com (CAN), www.webservinfor.com (PT/EU). As for DELL I went to the local DELL site.

 

i think it has proven itself by now that clevo gaming laptops have never been upgradeable. the dell xps gaming laptops have always been upgradeable since inception and that tradition continues with the new m1730 series.

i also think that to state the d900c was never touted or marketed to be upgradeable in some way or another is kinda foolish. if these notbooks never were supposed to be upgradeable then clevo and sager and everyone else standing behind this product did not need to issue public apologies and explanations on why the user upgrades could not be done.

 

I myself can upgrade to the 8800M GTX,without the S3 support.
I can also use the extreme CPU,but without support.
Anything new that I can add to my laptop goes only with a mobo change.
Still,it`s far better than buying a whole new system, but paying 700$ for a GPU, add 50$ for shipping, delay time and for that money you can probably get a moderate gaming laptop,like the gateway FX.
The prices in the laptop world are ridiculousely high,even higher in Europe.
But Dell has a history,financial power and a reputation,all over the world,whereas Clevo is not so known around the world,because the systems they build get into all type of shapes,primarly the Sagers and Eurocom and Rock systems. But the name is not popular at all. Granted,Clevo makes the fastest laptops in the world,but at what cost compared to the Dells?
Mine was almost 2400$ and the FX which is almost 50$ better is at about 50% the cost.An equivalent dell would probably cost more.But they are indeed upgradeable( remember the story with the X1400 and upto the 7900GS fitting into the inspiron 9400? that says a lot also) .
And yes, the 1730 users could upgrade DIRECTLY to the 8800M GTX, no issues whatsoever,and to the Extreme CPUs. Because they planned ahead and made sure the customer would be satisfied,since he payed a premium.
In a Clevo,you get possibilities at a lower price.
I`d still get a 9262,but upgradeability is a term I`d never again use with a peace of mind for a laptop.

 

yes theres plenty over @notebookforums dell 17" to 20" forums.


they are always @the forefront of DELL happenings they have resident bios hackers and some prolific resident posters that helped "the scene" alot.

I don't need to drop names but.

mcfly got upgrades, so did achilles, if you want more you can headover and read..

 

I don't really care about the upgradeable crap I'm past that.

I am pissed that Clevos Cards Are Underperforming. compared to DELLS. single vs single with quad core. same clocks. the clevo looses against a weaker processor. wen infact they should loose because of the quad CPU score. but the CLevo is underpreforming in other scores. so the quad keeps her afloat. but not so much.

I am sick.

to my stomach.

damn europian cars.... wy o why do we get them. when they break or you need some advice nobodys there for you.


dell has a bigger "scene" and I wish to god I could go back and get a m1730.