Q9450 for NP9262

European cars are more reliable than you average american ones,and far better performers...don`t get me started on that.
But in you case Dexgo I`m willing to wager it`s the drivers that cause the lack of performance,not the hardware.
I`m not saying the clevo drivers are bad,I`m saying the Dell ones are better.

 

@DFTrance: I certainly think that the premium price that one typically pays for a _Dell does include an amount that is in fact used by _Dell to cover the cost of certain upgrades that _Dell determines are likely to be demanded by their customers - from _Dell's perspective, that's just another component of the overall marketing cost - I'm sure that the amount that's added into the upfront price is not the same amount that it would take to purchase the upgrade at the time the upgrade becomes available for several reasons: (1) to the extent that _Dell gets the premium upfront and retains those amounts for itself, that's excess cash that _Dell can then invest and collect interest on, (2) there is a less than 100% chance that the upgrade will actually become available, so the amount of the upfront premium will be risk-weighted which will have the effect of reducing the amount paid upfront, (3) a certain number of purchasers will simply not get the upgrade when it becomes available, either because they don't want it, or because it's too much trouble to send the system in and go without a computer while it's being upgraded, thus, fewer than 100% of the systems sold will end up getting the upgrade, and the premium paid on those that don't get the upgrade is free money for _Dell that can be used to amortize the cost of the upgrades that actually get done, again, this reduces the required upfront premium, and (4) more likely, what _Dell does is simply hedge itself against the costs of doing the actual upgrade by, in essence, buying an insurance policy - either an outright policy or some sort of a derivative that replicates the financial results of an actual insurance policy - in which case the premium charged to _Dell purchasers is essentially the per-unit equivalent of the insurance premium _Dell paid to hedge against the costs of the eventual upgrade. This would be attractive to some investors because it's essentially a wager between _Dell and the counterparty that fewer purchasers will ultimately get the upgrade than _Dell thinks will get it - to the extent that this plays out, the investor gets to keep the excess premium paid (which is the return on investment, i.e., the return on the agreement to put one's money at-risk to cover _Dell's costs of upgrading).

I actually think that _Dell's have dropped in price outside the US recently because of the continuing decline in the relative value of the US dollar as against other currencies such as the Euro, the Taiwan New Dollar, and the Yuan; heck, even the Vietnamese Dong has been rapidly appreciating against the US dollar recently. If I have time I'll try to put together some very approximate numbers, taking into account the three different exchange rates - Euro to USD, Euro to TWD, and USD to TWD to see how this actually works out based on historic exchange rates.

Essentially, because the Federal Reserve has allowed the value of the US dollar to free-fall against other currencies, any product that incorporates a significant amount of dollar-denominated costs (e.g., corporate overhead, advertising, stock dividends, etc) will have fallen in cost relative to other products that do not incorporate a significant amount of dollar-denominated costs. In the simple text-book case, that has the effect of making US exports cheaper to the rest of the world, and imports into the US relatively more expensive - but it has nothing to do with actual intrinsic value of the good itself, merely the geographic disparities and related exchange-rate differences of the costs that went into making the good. As such, I would expect _Dells to fall in price relative to Clevos in the European market because _Dell pays for a significant amount of its costs in dollars whereas Clevo does not.

 

I am not using clevo drivers, they suck even harder than the hacked ones.

I am using 174.31.

if we never get good drivers. we will be doomed then.

it took how long for them to release sli...pfft.

 

So do a test with the same drivers as the Dell users. If they get better performance, you`re right,the clevo card is a dud :twitcy:

 

Actually, eleron911, I hate to be a wet blanket, but you're only half right. European cars do, generally, perform better than US cars; however, European cars generally fair worse than US cars in reliability. Granted, the following article is a bit dated (its from 2007); however, in googling for something I could use here, I found numerous other articles indicating that the trend continues. The article in question is: For car reliability, looking East is still best, and, in relevant part, states:

As for dexgo's trials and tribulations, I suspect that they derive principally from two sources (1) _Dell has a big enough market share that they can coerce NVidia into giving them special favors, customized hardware, and help in developing the drivers for the custom hardware - resources that aren't available to smaller companies like Clevo, and (2) the law of large numbers - there are simply a significantly greater number of _Dell owners, which means that its more likely that the best OC'ing parameters will have already been discovered for the _Dells long, long before the Clevos, and there are a much greater number of people to bounce ideas off of. I doubt if they are primarily due to his skills or lack thereof.

 

bud, we were testing everything was the same, drivers, 174.31 clocks 600/950 the only thing that was diff is that they had x9000 processor and VISTA..

now put XP and QUad into the equation. and assuming we both have the same drivers and same chips/cards.

our cards should be the same. and the processor score should be more.

well the cards weren't the same and my processor was more.

but we ended up getting similar scores.. WHY? because My processor score made up for having a lousy sm2.0/3.0 score in comparison to his.

so thus it is easy to see that the CLEVO CARDS are CRAP!

and if people didn't do what I'm doing. and seem to be the only freaking one.

where on the dell side there is hundreds upon hundreds of folks doing this.

Clevo=Dead End. for Extreme Enthusiast. and Dell is a Home With Open Arms.

I have nobody to compare or help me in this
"Scene" Dell has many many many.....

 

Shyster1 , in my country, there`s a car called Dacia, and some people have been driving them for over 25 years. How`s that for reliabity?
And also, the most reliabe car in the world is built by Toyota. American cars(don`t ge me wrong,I love muscle cars,dodge charger,am a big fan of the dodge speeders) are big,eat up a lot of gas and put up little power in comparisson.
Take some European SUVs and put them up agains the American SUV and see for yourself.
Dell is all american, expensive,eats up a lot of "gas" but gets the job done.
Clevo is more"european" ,eats up less gas,but will probably need a chasis change to make way for bigger "wheels", new engines etc.

 

I tested the new Nvidia drivers. they support all oems now for this release.

my SM2.0 score went down 150 points.

my total score stayed the same... because My freaking CPU balanced out.

stupid.

these cards are weaker than Dells that's for damn sure.

Dell is king. when It comes to Power.

you know what? I got the clevo, not because it looked great, good or awesome... hell no, it looks lousy.!

I got it beacuse of Raw Power and Performance.

Dell, Looks better, and Performs better. standard, SLi, and Single/overclocked.

Dell is King.

maybe that new BIOS for SLI will make the Grade...

who knows.

 

Hello
When yo u are talking about cards are you reffering t the video cards or the motherboard cards? The reason to ask is that I am nore intereseted in having a protable desktop processor then a protable video card.

 

...........

 

Lol man you are also from Romania! We are the only doomend people t use a car for 25 yers.

 

25 years - that's nothing! Go visit Uruguay (or Cuba) if you want to see a bunch of '50s and '40s American cars still running around as regular every-day cars (I believe Uruguay actually made it illegal to export an American car without getting certain licenses (which cost $$$$$) because US collectors were going down there and picking them up for a song - the climate in Uruguay is almost perfect, particularly for avoiding rust).

At any rate, there will always be outliers in any sample. My father-in-law has an '86 (now 21 y.o.) Ford Tempo that still runs (and that is a bit of a misnomer for what Ford Tempos do, even brand new they were pokey little stinkers).

As for Japanese models being more reliable - I certainly agree, as did the report I linked to - surprisingly, however, Hyundai is now up there as well.

Performance - I never made an argument there 'cause I quite agree with you.

As for SUVs - in terms of reliability, as the report I linked to stated, one of the Mercedes Benz SUVs fared so poorly that Consumer Reports recommended against it.

Another reliability-related point that I do have personal experience with is regular maintenance - on my old '92 Ford CV (an ex-ATF vehicle, still had the wig-wags set up when I first got it!) this consisted of a normal $45 oil change, and an annual tune-up/check-over for about $50-$75 depending. On my parents' BMW, just the oil filter alone cost more than the entire oil change on my CV - ouch!

I think one also needs to consider the class of vehicle being compared - Europe makes some very sweet high-performance models, but the regular-joe type cars I remember were stinkers in comparison to many of the regular-joe type cars in the US. I realize that this pic is unfair, 'cause it's so old, but this was my impression of many of the regular cars in a lot of Europe:

All of that being said, to get back to the topic at hand, I think that your comparison of _Dell vs Clevo is fairly close. The _Dell reminds me of a standard BMW 5-series (i.e., not too many bells and whistles) with the ersatz "manual"/automatic transmission - it'll do a lot for you, but you will be rigidly confined to the performance/safety parameters implemented by the engineers. The Clevo, on the other hand, is the perennial test-bed prototype, much more raw than the _Dell, and lacking a number of the amenities we've become accustomed to, but with a real honest-to-god manual stick-shift transmission. If you're trying to push the curves and the hills, you want a real stick-shift, not an ersatz "manual"-automatic. Of course, what you gain in potential, you give up in polish and comfort. You also get a bit lonelier since there are a lot fewer people willing to give up comfort and polish for that real stick-shift.

Here's how bad it is vis-a-vis cars: many years ago I test-drove a '96 VW Jetta with a stick-shift. At one point in the drive, we were coming up on a red traffic light and I did what I usually do - I clutched, revved the engine up a bit, and downshifted so I could use the engine to slow the car so that I would end up not having to brake or stop behind the car in front of me and would already be in gear and moving when the light changed. The salesman was a little flabbergasted by this, and said "I haven't seen anyone downshift in twenty years." That's how bad it is, and that was about 10 years ago now.

One thing I've been pondering about dexgo's GPUs - is it possible that Clevo downclocked the GPUs that were supposed to be going into the 5793 (given its smaller thermal constraints) and somehow didn't keep track of the ones that were supposed to go into the 5793 and those that were supposed to go into the 9262?

 

I think they`re the same cards. They fit into both the 5793 and the 9262.
Nice work on the cars, @Shyster1 , but I was thinking more in the line of Ferrari, VW, Opel , Fiat,and why not, Ford Europe.
Bmw is a high class car,I personally like Audi`s more.
But my dream car remains the Dodge Viper. And the 9262

 

wy o wy did I have to bring the car analogy into this again


dunno about that shy, I just don't know.

I just think I shoulda got a dell. I was super happy with my m1710 for overclocking and everything... and I built it myself and had no warranty so I could care less back then about Dells Service.

I just liked the low price for parts and their abundance.

the night before I priced out the dell and it came out to the same ammount I paid for my clevo... but before taxes../shipping.

so I went for the clevo.

In retrospect. the dell was equipped with 8800's in SLI. and my Clevo unbeknown to me... had a meager offering of a 8800 single.

I should have gone for the dell. it suits me more. and there are alot more peers that share my traits that I can chumm with.

I am not going to sell my Clevo. but in terms of what I figured I was getting into I was WRONG.

I could just buy the Dell too. I have a good Job and could afford it. but that would be just Stupid.

 

@Shyster,

What you are saying works both for DELL and for Clevo notebooks. That is, if the dollar was higher we in Europe would be paying more for both Clevo's and DELL's. As for the dollar being less strong then before seams to be indeed part of a government strategy to boost exports and reduce imports. Like any other American company DELL benefits from it. But considering that a lot of DELL's components are built ouside the US I'm not so sure that those advantages are so clear.

But Clevo also has its own cards to play with. Being small implies less infrastructure costs in comparison. A save that can be translated in price reduction. Has I said before the problem of Clevo is their global distribution strategy that is too costly IMHO.

Regarding upgrade risks covered by the extra cost of DELL's in the US vs Clevo's. I'm not inclined to think as you do. What I belive is that DELL has the power (customer base, finantial and reputation) to negotiate and share technical information and plans with NVIDIA better then Clevo (It is just bigger). This with their engeneering resources (both finantial and intelligence) allowed them to develop both a motherboard and interfaces that are stable regarding future video cards under the current series. It sucks for Clevo since being a good MXM student have not payed back, but in the end who is really paying the bill is us customers.

What my findings show its that buying something from an unknown or less known brand such as Clevo & Co does not necessarly mean that it is cheaper as I thought it would be. Indeed over the d901c, I don't see those comparative savings in infrastructure being translated to the final price anywere outside the US. So it is all about demand like any other company in the industry and the power to create it. As most company savings are just translated to profit if there is little competition.

This all shows that competition is on and it is global in this niche. Other will follow not just DELL.

As for your DELL Vs Clevo and the Cars analogy I honestly don't understand it, but that might be just me. With the M1730 one can overclock the CPU (just the fact that is easy to use is just an added bonus), with the d901c one simply cannot. Your opinion must be driven by the lights and dims that DELL uses, but for some that might be considered just added bonus too.

Each company will of course use their own resources to achieve their comercial goal. Me as a customer wouldn't care less how one get a lower price then another one as far as there is fair trade and human rights are respected. For the later I believe all companies play it equal considering that most factories are in Taiwan, South Corea, China and India.

Price is not everything for me too. But when everything else fails then it is the single most important topic unfortunately when you buy a system or discuss its features.

This is so off-topic.

Back to it I hope good news regarding better video drivers, unlocked PLL registers to overclock our CPU's, etc etc is in Clevo's plans for the our d901c. It is never too late to provide better service to customer that bought the "creme de la creme" of Clevo gaming laptops. As I said before the M570RU is getting more interesting updates then we are and the CPU is overlockable.

Stay cool,

Trance

 

Dexgo, can you post compare links?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=234162

there all over the place bud.

just read this one it has alot of stuff. and pics of scores.

 

It isn't the card that is crap, it is the GPU being limited by lower CPU clockspeed that is holding the cards back. If you could increase your clockspeed, you would see higher scores across the board. This is a very common problem with heavywieght GPUs. Also keep in mind duane is running a Penryn, while you have a Conroe. The new architecture is faster than a Conroe at the same clockspeed.

 

can you see that my score is higher than his?

3700 vs 3000

the GPU is the problem. not the CPU.

sm2.0 and sm3.0

lol, everyone see's it backwards. it's hillarious.

My CPU is not the problem.

the GPU IS!

 

Dude, I think what they are trying to say is that your QUAD works at 2.4 Ghz and that keeps the GPU slowed down. 3dmark06 might not be using all 4 cores in the GPU tests,but they are being used and my guess is that they work only at 2.4 in duo mode.
That or your GPU is a dud. Ask other users to see what they get in the 9262.

 

06 is used to all four cores, but single thread clock speed has an effect on GPU capabilities. Take a look at this:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=485898

 

i am looking @other scores on the net with q6600 and 3700 is what they are getting.
but I get it.

overclocking they m1730 CPU is probably raising their score.

 

I see now.

thanks bud.

I get it.

It's the Overclocking and clockspeed of the x9000 that raises their score.

I am being limited my my CPU.