RJTech or Xotic?

Interested in after sale advice for both these companies. Going to be getting an M570RU.

It's my understanding that RJTech is more like a direct manufacturer of Clevo laptops. While Xotic goes thru Sager who buys from Clevo. Not sure what difference that makes. Other than I noticed Xotic's warranty page says the warranty and tech support is thru Sager. And not them - I assume. Although they offer a support forum. Which isn't necessarily bad:

So if I have a problem I would ship my Xotic to Sager - which is very close to me. Closer than Nebraska (the not bad part). And if I had an RJTech I would ship it to RJTech which is even closer. (Both are next day by UPS ground from me.)

I've read RJTech's tech support is "one guy". And that no one there speaks very good english. Not meant to be a slam. Just a consideration. But then Sager has these miserable ResellerRating and BBB ratings. Although I understand them to be available 24/7 via phone(?). Is there tech support/customer service staffed by people with a firm grasp of the english language. Again, not trying to discriminate. Just had it up to here with "India tech" support issues. Another reason I am avoiding a Dell.

The other item of note would be that Xotic would be backed up by Sager. Whereas, RJTech is more like the direct manufacturer. It's not like you have the option of taking anything up with Clevo directly. So with Xotic you have them and Sager to follow up with for tech or customer support.

I also read that the RJTech's come with no logo stickers or emblems. Which I like. Although I wouldn't mind the Sager medallion. "RJTech" would just look kinda goofy on a high end laptop. Nor would I really care for an Xotic logo either.

I've read alot of praises about both. Just wondering if anyone has seen value in any of the items I point out above?

 

I dont want to tell you what to do but... if u know how to negociate and using the system... go with eurocom

the system in my sig... ill get it for 2200$can and its not the ugly m570ru its the sexy m571ru

 

Are you talking about the chassis with a silver stripe? Take a look at the product page on Sager. The silver stripe also comes with a silver lid. Not as attractive as the all black with orange stripe version IMHO. But to each their own. If it was just the stripe that was silver I would be with you.

My concern with Eurocom is simply shipping back and forth to Canada. The price is also way higher. I don't want the hassle of having to negotiate a cheaper price. And you can tell from the above I don't want to deal with long distance shipping. Sager and RJTech are within driving distance of me. If my laptop goes down I use it for business and really need it up and running ASAP. Not going to happen from Canada or Nebraska.

Scroll down on this page and you'll see a pic of the silver edition. I assume that is the only silver model in that series Clevo carries:

http://www.sagernotebook.com/product_customed.php?pid=10641

 

Anything not Clevo is not a 'direct manufacturer' they are all resellers.

Please read this thread. It will give you some good info on resellers.

 

the orange doesn't look nearly as bad as the silver speaker cover. what an eye sore.

 

I think they are both very good resellers. I have been in contact with both and they are very cooperative. And they write both good English (better than me since I am Italian).

I would suggest you to buy the Clevo D901C because the M570RU is very noisy... the D901C with Quad Processor is a far better invenstiment and it won't make you crazy...

 

Sorry but the d901c is not a laptop.. its a small desktop with a 30min UPS...

 

Sorry, but it is a laptop. Whether you like the form factor or no, it's a laptop. And the battery will last the same as any other SLI rig with a 17' screen i.e. m9750 etc you can get over an hour with it at minimal settings.

 

You might want to rethink that definition. I use mine everyday and carry it back and forth to work. My battery lasts about an hour, more if use power settings.

 

I have a D900K, and carry it around with me everyday.... it gets about 1-1.5 hours of battery... same size as the D900C.

Its definitely better than a mini desktop with a LCD screen.

 

Wu Jen - I wasn't trying to say that RJTech was a direct manufacturer. I meant that they were one in the terms of support. If you buy RJTech you have only RJTech to go to. Unlike Xotic where you can go to Xotic and to Sager.

I have read the reseller forum at length. And each companies policies. Xotic seems to write a more convincing pitch. But...you never know.

Again, not an argument for either. I'm still trying to figure out which is the best option for me. Both are priced similarly. So it really is an issue of support. Warranty wise and Tech wise.

My biggest question still is (given the advantage of two companies for support with Xotic) if my Xotic laptop fails do I send it to Xotic in Nebraska or Sager here in Los Angeles where I live? I will call them on Monday to confirm. But if anyone has direct experience with any of my top of the thread concerns feel free to post or email me. It would be great to be able to simply drive it over to Sager should it need repair. They're about 45 minutes from me.

I read in the main review about the loud fans. I have not read anyone complaining about them in the forums. And had naively thought they had been replaced with quieter ones. I live right next to LAX in a house full of fans and air conditioners. So I don't think that will be a major issue for me. I rarely travel with my laptop either.

Not sure what the poster meant about silver speaker covers on the silver model. It would be the silver lid that I would not like. But just one persons perspective.

So anyone have any advice on who they would prefer Xotic or RJTech?

 

Thumbs up for XoticPC. Justin@XoticPc is a member on the forum and his posts are priceless. Also, I`ve dealt with XoticPc when i got my 5791, I needed it specifically to a deadline and they made sure I got it 2 days before leaving the states
Also...they`re very professional and very sociable fellas,I used the LiveChat a few times and the operators are very kind and helpful.
Again, XoticPc was my choice and I can vauge they`re serious in what they`re doing.

 

I went with XOTICPC and they met everyone of needs. They kept me in the loop and I haven't had any problems with them. They also keep you informed of new changes here as well help out when asked. I would recommend them as well.

 

Its a lappy and i get about an hour batt if i dont use the power settings (even at 11.5 lbs)

 

I went with RJTech. They did a perfectly fine job and I even got a nice student discount.

 

Most of the resellers to be honest will fall back on Clevo. Unless the problem is something very simple, in which case they can send you the replacement part. Just a thought.

 

Something else to consider as you live in CA--sales tax. If you go with Xotic, you can have the lappy shipped from Nebraska. It would take longer since essentially it would go from Sager to Xotic to you. However, since it's coming from Nebraska your purchase price wouldn't include sales tax--a nice savings at CA rates.

 

Xotic does not fall back on Clevo as they are a reseller for Sager. So you have Sager to turn to as well as Xotic. In fact Xotics warranty states as such on their site.

I have to pay tax anyway as it is for business purposes and I own the company. So that won't help me much.

But being able to drive it down the road to Sager - rather than ship it to Xotic in Nebraska is a big plus. And if Xotic will help with support on top of Sagers support that would be grand.

I will talk to both tomorrow.

BTW what was the branding (stickers/nametags etc) on your RJTech laptop?

 

Most things they all fall back. Everything gets charged back if its under Clevos warranty period.

 

[QUOTE
BTW what was the branding (stickers/nametags etc) on your RJTech laptop?[/QUOTE]

nothing.

no intel or clevo,decails at all

 

DJDave you didn't even have the:

Notebook
Mobile Technology

on your lid?

 

nothing.

no intel or clevo,decails at all
[/QUOTE]

How dos it look? With something in the middle or just plane?

 

On the warranty issue, it's interesting to read the actual terms of the two resellers' warranties, because they do differ; however, it appears to me to be largely a difference without much distinction because, ultimately, parts-wise we're all depending on the good graces of Sager.

On the actual warranties, Xoticpc actually unconditionally gives its own limited warranty whereas RJTech only gives its own limited warranty if the manufacturer's warranty is for a shorter period of time.

Also, Xoticpc's default term for their own limited warranty is 3 years labor and 1 year parts, whereas RJTech's default term for their own limited warranty, if given, is 1 year (apparently for both labor and parts).

In terms of extended warranties, Xoticpc appears to make its own extended warranties, for up to a total of 3 years for both parts and labor, whereas RJTech does not make its own extended warranty, and instead sells extended warranties made by RepairMaster(Warrantech) and, if you take the extended warranty (aka a "service contract"), they also cover the first year, which suggests that RJTech might not consider itself to have made a warranty at all to a purchaser who buys the extended warranty (although that conclusion is not free from doubt, since RJTech's warranty does not explicitly disclaim their default 1 year warranty under those conditions, which could be interpreted to mean that, if you buy the extended warranty, you could ultimately look to both RJTech and RepairMaster(Warrantech) during the first year.

How you choose to view these differences is up to you; in particular, depending on the relative financial strength of Xoticpc, RJTech, and RepairMaster, you might be just as safe under either, or (if, e.g., Xoticpc were in bad financial shape and RepairMaster was not) you might be better off with the RJTech arrangement even though, at first glance, it looks like RJTech is not standing behind their merchandise with the same degree of confidence that Xoticpc has.

Again, it cannot be emphasized enough, the facts I've narrated above are simply not enough to support the conclusion that either Xoticpc or RJTech is better (or worse) vis-a-vis warranties.

Finally, there's the soft issue - when it comes down to brass tacks, how much attention and consideration will you actually get? For comparison's sake, if you've ever had to deal with a warranty issue from one of the biggies, or from a place like B**tB*y or CC, notwithstanding that these companies are totally financially solvent and therefore "good" for the warranty claim, the level of service you get when you actually file a claim on your warranty is, in my humble experience, atrocious.

By contrast, based on what's been reported in this forum, and Justin's continued participation here, I would feel very comfortable with the belief that Xoticpc would actually give a damn if I had to make a claim on my warranty, and that they would make a good faith effort to fulfill the spirit of their warranty, and not just the mere letter.

With RJTech, I really don't know because I am not familiar with any representative of RJTech who participates on these forums (they may very well have lots of them on here all the time, and they may make reading all forum posts compulsory for all employees, I may just be too blind to have seen it yet); however, I suspect that your experience with them would be on par with Xoticpc, based on the comments I've seen about those who have made warranty claims with them.

Ultimately, I don't think there's much of a material difference between the warranty coverage or service support from either Xoticpc or RJTech, so the decision should probably rest on whether or not you can tailor the warranty coverage you pay for to your exact needs, how much you pay for it, and whether or not you feel psychologically better because Xoticpc puts itself on the line for the whole term of the warranty whereas RJTech outsources that obligation to RepairMaster after the first year.

As a post-script, and by way of getting some data on the financial health of Warrantech, one can get an idea, albeit a bit outdated, from the last quarterly financial report they filed with the SEC, available at: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/735571/000101905606001059/warrantech_3q06.txt

Those'll probably be the last publicly available financials for Warrantech since they just got taken private by HIG Capital on Jan. 1, 2007.

Based on those financials, Warrantech looks like it's a little shaky in terms of its immediate operating cash position, but it seems to have all of its liabilities covered by insurance, so it probably won't fold tomorrow. Just for the sake of having some numbers, for the 6 months ending Sept. 30, 2006, Warrantech reported gross revenues of about $65M, and costs of about $60M (i.e., direct costs of insurance premiums, plus other operational costs such has administrative); however, as of 9/30/06 it had an outstanding debt of $20M that was about to come due and that Warrantech was able to, in effect, refinance (which was part of the going-private acquisition of Warrantech by HIG Capital).

So, based on those numbers, and the fact that Warrantech carries third-party insurance (instead of being self-insured), there's probably not a huge risk that Warrantech will be folding soon, meaning that from a solvency perspective the extended warranties sold by RJTech are probably still good.

As far as for Xoticpc - I cannot find a blessed thing, not even an incorporation or d/b/a record in the Nebraska Secretary of State's office.

 

Nope
The lid has a brushed looking metal on it with a crome center section with a depression For a Logo.

But no....nothing.

I did expect it to say porta note or desk note.


I wish i did have a logo of some kind for the crome spot. but i guess Clevo don't make one?

I will be home this weekend and can post a pic then.

 

I was under the assumption that RJTech was not a reseller for Sager. But a reseller for Clevo (or eurocom) directly. Thus my hope that I would have Sager and Xotic to go to if a problem arose. Whereas RJTech would be the only party to go to if I went with them. I have at least confirmed with Justin that with Xotic you do in fact have both to turn to for Tech support. And Sager for warranty repair. Which is great as they are within driving distance of me.

Perhaps I missed the Sager reference in RJTech's warranty statement.

I have not read anything bad about either company here on the forums. But I have read alot more about Xotic on here than RJTech. Although I did read one post concerning the "one guy" at RJTech that handles their tech support. Maybe that's where I got the idea that RJTech did not have Sagers tech and warranty support. Otherwise the person could have dealt with Sager instead of this "one guy".

In the end I went with Xotic. There statements on there site. And Justins posts here. All convinced me that they were more sincere than the other vendors available. And the fact that they cover 3 years of labor on top of the 1 year parts and labor warranty. That says alot.

I also felt their configurations menu was much more up front. Some configuration menus looked like up sells. And/or charged extra pricing for items that come integrated already. Which seemed underhanded. Why not just list the real price for each added item. Instead of trying to come off like your charging less for the card or processor. In the end the price is the same site to site for the entire system. Within a few dollars.

There is a fair difference in different screens and parts available offered by each vendor. I did see screen differences that might be more interesting to different buyers.

I just think Xotic has their act together far more than any other North American vendor for Clevo products. Better price, way better warranty, support that reaches out even to this forum community and the resellorrating and BBB numbers to back all this up.

I run my company the same way. And respect them for doing so. If this laptop works out I will definitely be doing more business with them for my company.

Thanks for everyone that chimed in here. And if someone reads this later I hope they find value in all of this research into the different vendors. Coming from an extremely skeptical persons research - Xotic is the way to go - BY FAR.

I will update my experiences here should this laptop not turn out to fully impress me. Which I am convinced it will.

 

Absolutely nothing. It's nice, because now I think I'll get a custom thing where there's a space for it on the m570ru.

 

I'm thinking of putting one of these on mine.

 

My bad. RJTech is a Clevo reseller, not a Sager reseller, so if you buy from RJTech, you'll be relying on, in order, RJTech, Warrantech (through the RepairMaster service contract, if you bought it), and then Clevo.

If you go with Xoticpc, you'll be relying on, in order, Xoticpc, Sager, and then Clevo.

 

Correction Shyster...

RJtech (as well as many other OEMs) actually gets their notebooks from the "big 3" Clevo distributors in North America:
- Sager
- Pro-Star
- Eurocom

In this case, RJtech gets their barebones through Sager.

 

You know I wonder about that. I asked PCMicro back in July when I bought from them and they said they got their notebooks directly from Clevo. When I got my notebook it didn't have the Sager/Pro-Star Badge. Gophn do you know which ones do and which don't?

Sorry to get OT Op.

 

It does not need to have the Sager or Pro-Star badge....

It will only have a Sager/ProStar/Eurocom badge if those are the OEMs that put together your fully configured system.

When an OEM just wants the barebones, "the big 3" will not do any kind of branding (they just record serial #s), and then they ship out the barebones.

OEMs (such as RJtech, VoodooPC, Falcon, etc...) cannot get their barebones through Clevo directly (due to the measly small amounts that they would only purchase, rather than a massive amount like the "big 3"). The other OEMs are forced to go through "the big 3" for their barebones, then they can re-brand it all they want to do the final configurations for each customer.

I can eye out a Clevo Serial # and am 90% sure on which Clevo distributor the barebones came from.... no OEM can hide that.

The usual serial #'s that I have encountered from small [in amount of stocked systems] Clevo vendors (like RJtech and Falcon) are from Sager. PCMicroworks was a bit vague when I was talking with them about their barebones' origin, but they got some of their barebones through Sager from the serial #'s that I have observed.

 

i went with xotic and i have in less than 2 months had to use my warr with sager twice. i called justin and he directed me to either call sager directly or that they could for me. the only one reason at the time i bought i would have gone with rjtech was they offered the wsxga glossy instead of the wuxga. i really wanted the wsxga instead.

and for those without badges i called sager and they glady sent me out one with no questions asked, i just said mine "fell off" and they didnt ask anything they took my address and i got one in the mail.

 

gophn - thanks for all the great info. i assume from it that resellers who ship units with the Sager logo must be getting the units assembled by sager.

I wonder if Sager has gone out of their way to improve their customer service. Someone posted that they had not had any bad reviews or additions to resellerratings or BBB in the last 6 months.

xotic is smart for having justin on here. they must get alot of business. this is like the only laptop forum on the net. as far as easily found by a noob like me. the masses must end up here and here only. and to hear a company reaching out like this for customers says alot. even if it is profit motivated. it is the right kind of tactic. customer service - something in such short supply these days.

zfactor - At least you have Sager to fall back on. Unlike the "big three" - where it would be them or no one basically. Who would you call Clevo in China? lol! Plus Sager has an interest in making Xotics customers happy. Xotic must be one of their larger buyers. if things get slow with Sager - maybe you should have xotic call for you. that way they know that a large buyer is aware of a problem with a unit they sold.

Justin from Xotic tells me my unit will have the Sager emblem. Which I prefer. I like their logo better than any of the other resellers. Voodoo and alienware just seem goofy. And falcon sounds like an alarm company or cable installer. lol! Just my humble opinion.

What a great thread. Strayed a bit off topic but not really.

I have not received my unit obviously. But I still feel better purchasing from a small business like Xotic rather than a Dell. I think zfactor will definitely get his problems solved. And for me - Sager is right down the road. So it's a great deal for us. We used to buy all our systems from ABS which is in the same area. Until they got to highend. They used to sell great barebones office systems. Anyway, now I'm going way off topic.

zfactor - how long did it take your unit to get to you?

 

Has the center section a plastic cover so that you can protect the "possible" logo or it is just a depression without anything?

 

i got my unit in just over a week. and the barebones systems just have either a blank spot for the logo or they say "style note" as the brand name...

 

Well, just call me blind as a bat - that's what I get for trying to do too much at once. After the first poster wrote back that he thought RJTech got direct from Clevo, I went to the Clevo reseller sticky and did a quick look-through, and saw that Xoticpc, Powernotebooks and co. were identified as Sager resellers in the parenthetical by their name, but that RJTech did not have any parenthetical designation by its name, so I assumed (yes, I know, "a$$" out of "u" and "me") that this indicated that RJTech was on par with Sager and bought directly from Clevo.

I am going to take another stab in the dark, however, and assume (again) that, had I read a bit more carefully, I would have discovered "the truth" for myself, correct?

 

Do not be embarrassed Shyster... it took me a while to wrap my mind around these facts as well.

But after knowing about it, you get better insight on how things work when you get a Clevo notebook (through whichever vendor).

 

A little embarrassment now and then is good for the soul :confused2: I'm just glad that companies like Clevo, Sager, and all the other resellers exist at all; I originally wound up on this forum because the gerbil in the original HDD on my Sony quit and I got tired of banging my head against a brick wall trying to get any information out of Sony about replacing it - the sum total of Sony's "advice" on replacing/upgrading the HDD consists of the following: "Hard drive upgrades in the notebook computer are not supported."

And tech specs? I ultimately ended up buying a pdf of a photocopy of the "confidential" Sony service manual for the notebook in order to figure out where the HDD was and how to swap it out. Then there was trying to get a nice clean XP install out of the Sony "recovery" CDs - which entailed two nights downloading 161 MS updates as well.

Basically, I'm sick and tired of being treated like a mushroom* by the biggies. The warranty expired aeons ago, its my computer, and it should do what I want it to do (within the physical limitations, of course; God's not returning my calls on that one yet :laugh: ) and I should be able to do what I want with it, so long as I don't copy someone else's code and sell it without permission. Basically, it's the converse of "you break it, you bought it" - I bought it, so I should be able to break it.

So, that's what got me here, and I've gotten help on those points; but when I stumbled onto the Clevo/Sager forum, ( warning, cliche directly ahead) the scales fell from my eyes.

I am still flabbergasted by the fact that companies like HP and Alienware can charge a premium that is frequently north of $1,000 for what amounts to a paint-job and a plastic name badge. It's as if I took my Grand Marquis, gave it a new paint job, a third-party CD changer, "Shyster1 Motors" name badges, and vinyl seat covers and an air-freshener (aka bloatware), and managed to sell it for 20% to 30% more than I could otherwise get.

It may take a little mind-bending to get my head around all of the who's and what's here, but at least I'm getting info that I couldn't get on any other system, for love or money.


*kept in the dark and fed s**t

 

Wtf, I asked them about student discount and this is what I got.

 

Yeah thats why i went to eurocom... now i just have to wait the 20dec

 

Moab, just for clarity, the 2nd and 3rd year labor warranty is done by Xoticpc, not Sager, so you will have to send it to Nebraska in the unlikely event you will need to send it in for warranty repair during that time, and you pay for shipping both ways.

 

I am going to ask Justin about this.

Joe

 

This only applies if you get their 1 year parts and 3 year labor warranty. If you buy the Sager 3 year parts and labor warranty it goes to Sager. However Moab was talking about the 1+3 year warranty, and it was important to him that Sager was so close by, and that is why I wanted to clarify the issue for him.

The other thing to consider is that when Xoticpc gets the laptop back under the 1+3 year warranty they may well have to order parts from Sager so the turn around time will not be as fast as if you were to buy the 3 year Sager warranty and send it directly to Sager. Also, the Sager 3 year warranty will pay for 3 Day shipping both ways...although Moab could just take it over to Sager and pick it up when it was ready...much faster!

 

Makes sense..

Joe

 

This is what XoticPC said..

Hello, This statement is incorrect. We pay for labor completed at Xotic PC or Sager for 2 Years after the Sager 1 Year expires. J



Please let us know how we can be of further assistance.


Joe

 

It really doesn't matter who actually lifts the screwdriver, what matters is who's on the hook for paying whomever lifts the screwdriver. If you take the Xoticpc warranty (i.e., they warrant the 2d and 3d years), Xoticpc is financially responsible for paying for the work, and Sager has no responsibility for payment. On the other hand, if you get the Sager 3-year warranty, then it's Sager who's on the hook, not Xoticpc, even if Xoticpc actually performs all the work.

In other words, if you buy the Xoticpc warranty and make a claim in year 2, Sager does the work, and Xoticpc goes belly-up (perish the thought), you'd be SOL and would have to pay Sager to get your notebook back - as far as they're concerned, their just a repairman for hire, and they've got a mechanic's lien against your notebook until they get paid. On the other hand, if you buy the Sager 3-year warranty and make a claim in year 2, if Sager does the work, and Xoticpc goes belly-up (perish the thought), you don't owe Sager a dime for anything that's otherwise covered under the warranty.

 

Ah Steponz, then I stand corrected...but does the customer choose where it goes for repair, or does Xoticpc?

Then if it goes to Sager for repair, Xoticpc just comes out of pocket to pay Sager for the labor?

 

It's A slide Show, And for some reason it don't play untill i refresh the page, So if you don't see the show just refresh the page.

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://w247.photobucket.com/pbwidget.swf?pbwurl=http://w247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/djdave404/bbcf91ac.pbw" height='360' width='480'></embed>

 

it is just a depression without anything.

 

Thank you very much!