Reliability of Sager? It's Invisible..

I have been looking at Sager a lot, and I would love to buy the NP2096, but... this brand is practically invisible online and offline. I don't know anyone who's ever heard of Sager before, and simply googling "sager np2096" gives me ~393 search results.

Why is there very little on this? Is there a future time period when reviews will come out? I just really want to buy one of these, but I would like some reasons to trust it more. I'm heading to college and will be working with a lot of video/photo-editting, engineering things, and some gaming, and the laptop seems great, but I feel safer questioning the reliability first. Many people here recommend it, but how so with so little information on it out there?

 

so are you asking about the reliability of sager or the reliability of NP2096?

 

Sager doesn't actually make the NP2096, Compal does. Clevo makes the rest (or most) of Sager's notebooks. I'd recommend the 15" NP8660 since Clevo is more reliable and the laptop is a lot faster.

 

Both..

I don't know if I'm just getting too paranoid about this. It just seems very odd to me that such good laptops have no advertising anywhere, nor reviews.

 

This a review of the exact same notebook under a different brand name (with a paint job):

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/voodoo-envy-m-152/4505-3121_7-32719383.html

 

there are tons of reviews of 2092, give me few minutes to find them.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/141620/micro_express_ifl9025_desktop_replacement_laptop.html

edited: you are right, i just realized that there aren't too much reviews of 2092.

 

The laptop reviewed there sounds pretty ****ty in comparison to what everyone here has made out the Sager np2096 to be.

 

i dont think that is really a fair comparison considering voodoos are insanely overpriced and sagers are very reasonably priced

 

Still, the NP8660 is Sager's flagship 15". If you can spend a bit more, I'd really recommend getting that. Here's another review of the Compal FL90 (the Sager):

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Compal-FL90-Notebook.4209.0.html

 

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,540,000 for "sager" computer. (0.14 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,520,000 for "clevo" computer. (0.23 seconds)

Results 1 - 6 of 6 for "don't buy a sager" .(0.08 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 8,950 for "don't buy a dell". (0.24 seconds)

Back in the day Dell was alright. Now they've gotten to be to big, i'ts time to move on, and let go.

 

Over half a grand is more than "a bit more."

Er, for one I don't have a Dell, and for two that doesn't help me trust Sager notebooks anymore than before..

I will probably end up buying one if it makes my budget, but I only seek assurance.

 

also... would your dad buy a Compal, or a Quanta ?

Because he did when he bought the dell.

 

Im just saying, when all we've got our witnesses to prove our case, that there is a good amount of witnesses.

 

BTW, why do you keep bringing up Dell? They come up with 615,000,000 results on Google. Dell designs their own cases now, too.

 

No offence to dell owners, my wifes got one, im just a hater. but i use dell as an example because its a known company.

 

Well I'm not exactly looking for biased opinions here. How long have you had your Sager? (..any problems?)

 

I have both a Sager and a Dell and am pleased with both of them.
Sure, the sager looks better, but the dell packs more power, at least in my case.

 

Since Compal actually makes the notebook, you'll probably find out a bit in the Compal forum.

 

i don't think we can do much to help you trust sager here. like some people prefer Ferrari over Koenigsegg no matter what.

 

Well, let's see. Have you heard of Alienware, or VoodooPC, or _Dell? If so, then, at some point, you've actually heard about Clevo and, since Sager sells Clevos, you've indirectly heard of Sager, too.

Why is this? Because, as is much better explained in Gophn's Clevo Guide, Clevo is what's known as an ODM - original design manufacturer - which is just computer industry lingo for the company that actually has all of the fabrication equipment necessary to turn raw plastic and jumbled piles of chips into actual computers.

Then, what typically happens is this: a company like _Sony, which tries real hard to make believe that they actually made their equipment, will have a "concept" for a new computer - some nice arty little sketches and a list of must-have specifications - they take that concept to a company like Clevo (and there are many other companies just like Clevo who's products you use every day even though you've never "heard" of them either, like Compal, Arima, MSI, etc).

Basically, if you think of the likes of _HP, _Dell, _Sony, etc, as "real" computer companies, then Sager is as real as it gets - the big national brands don't actually make their own systems, so there really isn't any basis for distinction.


Think of it this way - Clevo is the real, _Sony et al are the Matrix, and right now, you and I are sitting in nice red overstuffed leather chairs discussing the differences between the two. Welcome to reality.


EDIT: Don't have a Sager, yet, just my pokey 5 y.o. Vaio Z1A (whose ODM I still have not been able to identify, although I did figure out that the LCD was made by _Toshiba - a fact so sensitive and "top secret" that _Sony wouldn't even use the word "Toshiba" in its own secret, confidential service manual). So I don't have a horse in the race whose selection I have to somehow justify for purposes of protecting my ego.

 

Holey Smokes! Ya learns somethin' new ever'day on this forum!

That

makes that

look like

 

I find it kinda odd too that the availability of reviews are so low.
I mean, when you plan to buy a laptop, you usually end up using hours after hours of research for finding your ideal product. When it comes to Clevo, its very difficult because of lack of user reviews, different names, many companies that sell these laptops with various specs...

In Norway, Sager and Clevo is unknown. Period. No writing in norwegian tech magazines, no advertisement in norwegian websites.

And on top off all that, you have this forum where a bunch of laptop entusiasts have gathered to share their experiences and ideas. But whats even more anoying is that we have groups of individuals, so called "fans" that speaks good about their brand, their choice, even though they know that its not the best. Im not saying owners of Sager is lying, but its like this in every forum. If you buy a xbox360 and you know that PS3 is better, many will start "defending" xbox and become so called fanboys.
Therefor im applauding the "Bad things about Sager notebooks?" Thread. Every forum needs one of these :=)

 

After having a few of Sager's the looks are the only things bad about those.

 

There are 6 reviews of the NP5796, and 5 reviews of the NP9262, as well as countless mini-reviews with pics and experiences and stuff.
I find that more than enough. If you haven't somehow made yourself an image of the laptop after 6 reviews, it probably won't be better after 60

It's completely unknown in Belgium as well. It's even pretty unknown in the US. The reason is because they simply don't advertise a lot + loads of their laptops are sold under different names (like Sony, Dell, Alienware).

How many people here have had bad experiences with Clevo? Not a whole lot. Now, compare it to the Alienware or Dell forum. Do the praise threads outnumber the hate threads? No, they don't. In the Clevo forum, they obviously do. So who has more reason to be enthusiastic about their brands? Personally, I get pissed of by all those people in the Alienware forum saying stuff like "well there are probably hundreds of people with positive experiences, they just don't come to the forums" or "well my laptop has been OK for six months, so if yours has crashed then it must have something to do with you" or even "you guys are just deluded" [which shows out of the fact that they call them "non-believers"]. And they continuously ignore the fact that of all the people in the forum, a big number of them has had problems, which SHOULD NOT be expected when you pay close to or over 3k.

Clevo owners who are positive however, apparently DO come back to the forums, and apparently, the people who are not happy, DON'T. But there's a more simple explanation for this: there simply aren't as much people who are disappointed. So then you get a forum filled with positive comments. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do agree with that.

 

Sager doesn't spend a ton of money advertising and then charge high premiums. That is why they take on resellers instead of spending money on advertising.

 

Hey, I used to own that last one, but in a silver!

 

I disagree. 6 reviews isnt nearly enough to satisfy me. A lot of them doesnt have stuff that is important for ME, like noise and temperature. I really dont care about Frames per second, 3D Mark score etc which have been so popular to write about these days. AND the fact that a these 6 reviews have different setups, means that my config maybe will act different. So what we`re missing here is both quality and quantity.

I think that this is a mistake. They, both Clevo and the resellers, should advertise their products more. Would make my choice a whole lot easier.

You cant compare Dell to Clevo. Dell have a lot more customers and are a company that have issues with production rate because of all the customers. Isnt it logical that, lets say, Dell with 1 000 000 sold laptops vs Clevo with 100 000, will have more unsatisfied customers? If both of them have a failure rate of 10% (to make it easy), that means Dell will have 100 000 failures while Clevo will have 10 000. Why shouldnt there be more complains about Dell compared to Clevo?
And both Dell, Sony, LG, Toshiba, Clevo etc have happy customers that are eager to share their experience with their laptops in this forum. Its not just Clevo that makes good products.

 

And to all the complains made about Dell: A lot of them have been because of poor customer service. Not just the product

 

Ah, that I agree with. There isn't enough about noise and temps and stuff. That made my choice for the M570TU pretty hard.
But in the end, what can you do? Do you need 513 reviews that all contradict each other? In those 6 reviews of the NP5796, you have people saying it's really loud, others say it's audible but not annoying... In the end, you already know: it's loud. It just depends if you're paying attention or not, if you're sensitive to noise... in your heart, you already know what the review are saying. Yet we just search more because we want people to say they're completely quiet
I think you can get a pretty clear view with 6 reviews. So many things can still go wrong in the purchase, so you don't have to know how loud EXACTLY the computers in the reviews were

The advantage of this is that they don't have to let the customer pay for all the advertising. That is why Clevo has good price/value!
Anyway, you've heard of them anyway, haven't you?

Yes of course. But we're not talking about quantity here. We're doing about quality of the brand, thus we want to know how much the failure rate is (or at least make an estimate).
This is quite easy to know. Think with me here: we have NO reason whatsoever to assume that Dell customers are going to be less likely to report mistakes than Clevo customers. So that means that, assuming a failure rate of 10%, for every 10 Clevo and 10 Dell happy customers, there should be 1 unhappy Clevo and 1 unhappy Dell customer.

Now check out the Dell forum. You will find WAY more (more in terms of percent) unhappy customers. As I've said, in the half year that I've been lurking around these forums, I've seen tens if not hundreds of positive reviews, but little to none negative.
That can't be said about Dell... So I will assume that Clevo has a lower failure rate, and are overall a better buy

@your last post: doesn't really matter as well. Clevo's complaints could also be about customer service

 

As far as I can see, with new products bought directly from Dell or Sager, with Sager you get alot more bang for your buck. The Sager NP5796 I ordered was $2300. The XPS M1730 most equivalent to it would be almost $3000 and would not have an equivalent graphics card (dual 8700m for dell and 9800m gt for sager). So when considering all things, Sager (Clevo) really offers the best deal out there.

 

^^^don't forget there are $750 off m1730 coupon in once a while.

 

^^ Once in a blue moon.

 

the 2096 is still in preorder, i think, so that's why there are no reviews or even user feedbacks of that particular machine. the JHL90 platform is the new centrino2 montevina, but I dont know if it is a drastic redesign, or is based on some older platform.

the workmanship could be approximated by the general reputation of compal's past works, but since it is a new platform, some uncertainty is warranted.

 

This is simply wrong. When you have a large number of reviews (like with the Dell XPS M1530), you have a pretty accurate picture of what problems exist in every unit, and problems that just happened with some. You know more or less what the chances of getting a defective part (for example, the screen), and you base your decision on that.
However, if I wanted to buy a NP2092 today, I'd have almost no information about it, except for 2-3 short reviews which don't cover everything.

Wrong again. If you look at the people that post in both forums, you'll notice something - the people who get a Dell would usually get any other laptop, if it was cheaper/performed better. On the other hand, the Sager/Clevo folk seem to be "loyal" to their brand (basically, fanboys).
If a Dell user experiences ANY problem (including even the smallest bump), they will start a thread about it immediately, and everyone will know that there may be a problem if several similar threads crop up. However, people in this forum seem to be experiencing quite a few problems which they don't mention, or at least seem to brush away as "normal".
For example, in this/showthread.php?t=274764 thread, when a few people mention that the speakers 'suck', someone actually sugeests to buy speakers and replace them. With any other manufacturer, the customer would demand that the company ship him a laptop with better speakers or he'd return it.

 

Lol return the laptop for a better speaker when all 5793 the laptops have the same factory speakers?

 

cloudfire: i would recommend that you call xotic.com and talk to someone there. i personally found it very comforting that i could call the company and instantly be talking to someone who could answer any question i had about the computer i was interested in ordering

also, i'm sure that there will be some legit reviews of the np2096 when people start getting it in a few weeks. i know that chaz is going to be doing a full review of the np8660, so you can check that out as well

if you havent done so yet, i would really recommend reading gophn's clevo guide. it has some great information about clevo, ODMs, OEMs, and the process of rebranding. also check out the impressive reseller ratings and BBB ratings of some of the more prominent resellers in the states (powernotebooks and xotic).

 

Which major brand is using NP8660 chassis/build notebook?

 

Sager -----------

 

For the NP2092... I don't know, you could be right that it is not reviewed properly (although this is true for a lot of other models from other brands. Think Gateway).
Concerning the NP5796 and NP9262 (and this will be the case as well with the NP8660 coming up) you really have quite an accurate view.

I wouldn't know about Dell, but you're definitely wrong about the Clevo folk being fanboys. Look at Gophn, Nirvana, eleron, Prasad, and many other 'known' (on these forums, I mean ) Clevo owners. They are all first-time-buyers. Sure, they might buy one again, but most of them are not fanboys.
It's actually quite biased and insulting to state that the Clevo forum is full with fanboys, when all evidence points that they are just people who tried out Clevo and happened to be very satisfied.

I've got quite a few remarks on this subject.
1) You're again bad informed about the Dell customers. I just did a quick search on the Dell forums, and there are no people on there that are starting threads like "ZOMG MY SPEAKRZ R ONLY AVERAGE". Going through a couple of pages, they report problems like: touchpad dying, faulty video cards, BSOD's, speakers who stop working... These do not seem small problems to me, and the different problems are numerous.
2) And then you compare all of these different and severe problems with... the speakers of the Clevo's. Alright, tell you what. The speakers are average, period They are only average, not enough bass etc. Nobody is saying they are great, but nobody is starting threads about their speakers being only average, and they shouldn't either. It's an average part of their laptop, so they deal with it.
3) The negative remarks in the Clevo forum are also quite severe, but you will only find a few: in-game CTD's, people getting supposedly high temps, and of course, the GJOD (Green Jack of Death ). This is a known problem, namely that the Green Audio Jack of the NP5796 is of very poor quality. It is well known, there have even been threads about it. They are not hiding it. The truth is simply that this problem is not *that* shocking, since you can just use speakers.

So, recapping, the people with Clevo's won't whine about stupid things like average sound quality, but neither will Dell owners. Both of them will only mention serious malfunctions, and then I think we have to state that Clevo gets very few remarks of faulty video cards, bad build quality, or exploding notebooks.

Just my 2 cents.

 

LOL, you dont own xbox360 do you?

 

Is it written wrong? Oh I'm sorry, English is only my third language you know

EDIT: What should it be then? Supposebly?

 

Supposedly is correct...his comment meant that if you really think people are not getting high temps (which would be the apparent meaning of your use of the word supposedly) then you must not own an xbox360 or your personal experience would confirm that it does get hot.

I do not own one, so I have no comment on whether they get hot or not...I am just clarifying the meaning of his comment.

 

heck I bought my 2nd macbook pro just 2 weeks ago, and ready to try out the toshiba x305 in few months.

yea i see those kind of posts a lot at dell forum.
ie: why can't i power up my inspiration??!!

(5 minutes later)

oh I forgot to plug in my power cable.

I was one of the posters in that thread, regarding the speaker problem, they are not badly made or whatever, just simply an awkward design, that's something clevo can do nothing about until next new model release. also Sager users generally have more budget (or should i say more wealthy?) and tech knowledge than Dell's, that's why you don't see us complain much. take me as an exmaple, why would I bother with onboard speakers while i have yamaha 5.1 surrounded me?

 

lol, i guess my english is kinda bad. What i really meant was that he was denying the fact that some people do get high temps on Clevo laptops.
That Tankbuster is one of those fanboys who defend their chosen product no matter what.
A joke

 

Why so many laptops !!

 

Therefore as Nirvana said, We know more about computers, so when the pc wont power up, first thing we would check to see, is if its pluged in. I havent found a problem I couldnt fix, and I haven't called a tech support since 1994 when I owned my 1st desktop from Gateway2000.

Dell, HP, Gateway, etc... are all catered to the less knowledgable; not that pros dont buy them, but c'mon... do pros really need the mcafee trial, or the aol trial, or the 5 different links on the desktop to send them somewhere to buy something? Those of us that are experiencd in the computer world already know what AV to use, and AOL? hahaha... So maybe that's why they have to make a thread "bad things about sager", because the more experienced fix most problems themselves.

Perhaps they might have to make a thread "good things about dell" in the dell forums, so what happens, my guess even that thread will carry more bad things in it than good.

just my 2cents.

 

Ok everybody who is "against" "unknown" brands... Someone else on this forum described this situation to someone else (I don't remember who either person was =/) in this way. Often times, the best food places are completely unknown in some small town that you've never heard of (if you've ever watched the food network or experienced them yourself, you'd know the kind of places I'm talking about). Just because something isn't a huge name that you are familiar with does not mean its quality is diminished (or taste). In fact, because many of those unheard of places are unheard of, their service and quality is much better than typical food chains... Sager is not small, Clevo is not small, they just don't advertise and blab to the masses about their superiority. Think about it that way.

Another example... I may have 25 posts on this forum so I'm relatively unknown. But who knows? I might be the greatest computer genius on this entire site (I'm not, lol) but you don't know that for sure. Just because I'm invisible to this forum doesn't mean I don't have just as much knowledge with computers as anyone else here.

Does that help?

 

^^^I know exactly what you talking about.

 

Tankbuster. You make me laugh. Clevo fanboys? There are no Clevo fanboys? Are you kidding me? Do you seriously mean that?

For example, I think Gophn's a huge Clevo fanboy. I think Prasad is a huge Clevo fanboy. That's not necessarily bad though. I think Cloudfire actually makes very valid arguments. You may argue that you get more people returning here to say "Oh my Clevo/Sager laptop was great." That's certainly true, however, that happens in part because a large number of these posts learnt of Clevo/Sager from this forum. They are showing their appreciation to the forum, as well as demonstrating the approval of the brand. They show greater appreciation because they didn't know about Clevo/Sager and had to be convinced that it was reliable and trustworthy. And now they wish to convince others of the same.

In the Dell forum however, that's a lot less common. Most people already know of Dell, and while they might have bought their Dell/HP/Apple/Toshiba etc due to recommendations from this forum, it is very unlikely that they weren't introduced to it. They're a lot less likely to be returning to say "hey guys, thanks for convincing me to buy the HP/Toshiba/Lenovo, it was great." However, they are more likely to say "My Dell won't start" "My screen sucks" "Grainy Samsung screen" and etc. Part of the reason is that there are more issues, but also because of the type of buyers you get.

Part of the reason why you get far more positive responses for smaller companies is because people return to say good things about them. Most users won't post a review on seller ratings unless it's negative, or unless they feel strongly about the brand. Since the average user isn't likely to feel as strongly as someone who shelled out $3k for a laptop after weeks of research, they're a lot less likely to bother posting a positive rating on reselleratings and the like. People return to post positive views on companies like Xotic or PNB because they have a closer relationship with the company, they're proud of their purchase and want people to know that.


The typical sub-$1000 laptop buyer isn't going to bother.

Positive buyers from places like xoticpc & PNB are far more likely to post positive reviews than positive buyers from Dell/HP/Lenovo/Toshiba and the like. Unless of course, you are suggesting that only 19% of Dell's customers are satisfied with its services (taken from a rough estimate of 75 negative pages/92 pages in total)

 

@nirvana,
wow, so many laptops AND a 911? What do you do for a living?

On the last page, someone said the gjod is a known problem on the 570tus, but since only a few have been shipped, no one really knows. Its only certain for the rus. Same chassis, but hopefully some but small changes.

As previously said, most people who get sager are knowledgeable about comps already, and so sager and its resellers reward them with the latest bleeding edge components as soon as they come out, cheaper prices due to the lack to corporate waste (ie ads), and the ability to select from a whole spectrum of parts limited only to what fits and works, not just what they feel like letting you have. Oh, and I saved a few hundred on not getting an OS alone.