SAGER NP8130 / CLEVO P151HM1 Reworked GTX 560M Graphics card: Dieing or just Bad Driver/Bios/.inf ?

Hi,

So let me start explaining this issue with the basics of the PC:

This is Sager branded Clevo laptop put together by XoticPC back in 2012 for my father and it has:

Bios Version: 04.06.04
Processor: Intel I7-2670QM
Ram: 8192 MB
DX Vers: DX12 (No Setup parameters found when viewing DxDiag saved info file)
Graphics Card: GTX 560M 1.5Gb (Reworked)

A few years ago while my father was gaming he had suffered a whole bunch of instability with his computer and after a bunch of research he had found that some people were solving that by under-clocking their GPU's memory clock by 50Mhz which seemed to also solve that problem albeit that under-clocking is not the best of methods to deal with it. (No other solution was present and windows re-installation did not solve anything at that point).

Forward to a year ago and the graphics card had failed and would not let any game run without completely crashing and freezing up, either in the form of BSOD or freezes. I had then decided to take the PC with me to try solving it.

I had tried just about everything I could think of. It initially came with windows 7 pro which I had reverted to, installed all the drivers and software that are present on the Sager driver download site for my model laptop which didnt solve anything until one point I had given up and decided to take it to a professional computer store for their "Professional" advice.

They claimed that simply replacing the board would be the more expensive route to take (I, a Student with not much finance decided to hear their advice), their advice was to replace the graphics die/chip with another one and to rework that in which I had decided to go ahead with in hopes that that would solve the issue.

A couple hundred euros later and 4 months down the line along with a whole load of following up and trying to keep them on their toes I finally received the laptop back with windows 10 pro on it.

I had decided to conduct my test right then and there and it sadly failed.

However. Here is the confusing part: After taking it home and trying all the old tricks and installing drivers with exception of windows replacement, I decided to test it on a benchmark and it actually passed the benchmark which got me excited (Furmark & Performance Test).

However, when I decided to put it to a practical test of running Ark: Survival evolved (on low) and GTA V Single Player (As per Geforce Experience's optimization it would play them both but not for long. after about 2 to 10 minutes of play I get the crashes again.

At this point I had decided to try the Down-clocking solution to see if there was any difference but that didn't solve anything so I reverted those changes back to default.

This is at the moment the state that this computer is in and I personally do not want to give up on it. Its a great big beast that I spent some money on in order to repair it instead of saving for a new laptop which I know is the best option forward. However this does not seem to me to be a Hardware issue anymore and more likely an intricate series of software issues.

I had done some research previously in regards to this and I had found Atmosk's post regarding this very series of laptop and drivers but those solutions didn't yield any result and they clearly state that the Verde drivers should be compatible "now" (2/4 years ago or so) and since then hasn't been active.

So any advice is more than welcome and I am willing to provide any other information that I may have missed out.

Thanks in advance !

 

The video chip is on an mxm board and should be replaced rather than reworked if it fails really.

In regards to crashes you have not been specific enough, do you get a BSOD with a code? A hard lock? A power off and restart? Just a shut off?

 

Hi Meaker, Thanks for your response to my post.

I agree and I know that the card thats in it is a MXM type 2 card that can be replaced entirely which would be my next move if this becomes a hopeless case.

In regards to the crashes I had mentioned:
During the initial benchmarking test that I conducted at the repair store the computer locked up and force restarted itself after which the driver was reinstalled (The one available from the sager website) and it then managed to run Furmark with little stress but did not pass the DirectX 9 test from Performance test which is one of the first tests.

I have Ark Survival evolved installed from the Windows store and GTA as an independent copy from R*:
Ark survival evolved would crash in the form of the program freezing up but the desktop being fully functional
GTA would cause a complete lock up which would require a forced shut down.

There have been a couple occasions that I did receive BSODs but It would pass too quickly before it restarts for me to catch the error code but when I check the Event viewer I see error codes:
1000, 10016, 36, 1001, 1005, 1101 and Critical error 41 (Kernal-power) as well as error code 13 for nvlddmkm.
I have made an export of the event view log as well as DxDiag

Event log & Dxdiag + Pictures of the card: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AjfZHrG-o3IlgmDV9O8Fd2qq1O2T

I hope this info sheds some more light.


P.s: OS Language was set to Dutch (Netherlands where I reside)

 

i do bga rework, and generally when a gpu fails i put new chip on it. now chip for this card n12e-gs-a1 is about 30€, but also vram can be defective. on ebay, u can find lots of that card for about 100€ brand new.

card is a mxm 3.

if pc still crash, could be bga that is dead, or bad vram chip

 

Hi Scruffy, Thanks for your response.

I was already suspicious of the Vram so thanks for your input on that.

Is there anyway I can know for sure, tests I can run at home, tests I can ask to be done if specialized hardware is required ?

also a question; During a Vga rework, Do techs generally test the card to see if it works.. I mean they returned it to the store claiming it was fixed but as soon as I did my benchmark it didn't respond as they expected.

 

most of rework shop just want to grab money as quick as possible. in addition, if u look the left side of the bga, i see green solder mask all over it (on left bga test point) and generally when people put solder mask ie bacause pcb got scratched when cleaning bga pads.

contact the shop and tell them vga is not fully working. for a work like that, with new bga that costs 30€ ill ask them 70€ (30 bga and 40 for the work), sometimes new bga dont work as most of them come from china and who knows if they are 100% brand new .

testing vram is not 100% accurate. u can use vram test cd and see if it gives u vram error, but ull still ahve that problem. for me is more bga related then vram.

 

Hi Scruffy,

Thanks again for your input.

I do want to correct myself because when I went to the repair shop and mentioned reworked they had to correct me and confirmed that the chip was actually replaced and did not have actual repairs done to the chip itself.

They also suggested to bring it in again since the repair has warranty which will take time but wont guarantee that it would solve the problem.

I had also asked for a quote for the new card and they said that it would cost around the 300-400 euro mark which i find absurd as I find these cards on eBay and AliExpress for around the 120 euro mark.

I do realize that these are of course untrustworthy sites to be purchasing these things and would like some advice in this regards.

I live in the Netherlands. Do you know of any location I could try purchasing a replacement card ? I can afford spending probably another 150 euros but that about my limit on this project.

Thanks in advance !

 

Its an easy swap and Ebay is usually not a bad place to order MXM cards.

 

Thanks Meaker,

Alright, I will have a look around and will probably post again when some progress is made.

 

Hi again,

I have been looking around for the available cards and have also been looking around in the forums for people who have replaced their card and came across this post from 2012: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/p150hm-blue-pcb-gtx-560m-black-screen.681504/

I found Meaker's comment: "If the card was from another brand it wont work." does this also apply to MSI ? I can understand Dell and Toshiba locking up their devices.

When looking around I find a lot of GTX 560s that have been taken out of MSI and Toshiba machines on Ebay and AliExpress with AliExpress showing more promise:

Ebay listing: https://goo.gl/g3J7LG
AliExpress: https://goo.gl/5GSdsG

Do I have to make sure its an identical twin part ? as there are variations in PCBs and Versions ? or can I use an MSI or Toshiba donated part (Apparently MSI had a 1016 GPU Clock in theirs)?

My choices at the moment are: 1. https://goo.gl/oVQpsJ and 2. https://goo.gl/LdkTQT - (URLs were insane long)

Thanks again

 

Update: I have found an identical twin to my graphics card (Clevo donated). Will update again once its in the PC. Wish me luck !

 

good luck man, hope u fix the pc. as i know any vga should work, and if there is some bios problem, u can update bios.

 

Thanks Scruffy, I went with my first choice from AliExpress. The seller was knowledgeable, professional with their responses and provided all the pictures and details I needed. I am now just curious how this ends coz I will end up with a headache again if this doesnt work...

 

It's your best shot at it working and makes it plug and play.

 

Questions: How is it possible that Minecraft Java edition works on the "Bad" graphics card ? I had installed it out of curiosity and played for a bit without it crashing.

 

Is it using the gpu?

 

Hi,

Yeah it was using about 32% load on the GPU at around 35-60 fps.

was expecting it to crash when I started going through the world in creative mode as it was loading more and more blocks but nothing was really noticed other than lags at some points.

Went back to testing the two games I am experienced with but same results as before..

I am so confused...

 

It's a pretty basic processing load (no fancy features) and low percentage load.

 

Alright, I understand. Still surprised and wondering what that would indicate (obviously the GPU chip itself is fine)

Anyway. I got the notification from DHL saying that the card will be arriving tomorrow so I have been doing some research as to the whole replacement procedure itself.

Would this be a good guide to follow ?: http://monitor.espec.ws/files/p150em_935.pdf

I don't know if there are any differences between the the P150EM and P151HM1 in terms of hardware layout but looked to me as though the motherboard for the EM looks the same.

The procedure itself also looks simple enough to be done at home (Or should I not attempt doing it myself)

Also; any last minute advice to avoid overheating and other issues in the future would be appreciated.

 

Hardware layout is basically the same.

Replacements are plug and play, just be careful to screw the thing in the normal cross pattern and ensure the condition of the thermal pads is decent.

 

Alright. I am anxiously waiting its arrival to be honest.

Thanks for the advice Meaker, much appreciated.

I think best would be to get a fresh set of thermal pads just to be on the safe side. also an A grade thermal paste such as Arctic silver on the GPU might be a good idea as well as a thorough cleaning of the fans and grills, not that its dirty what so ever.

 

Arctic silver would be C grade, thermal grizzly ic diamond etc. would be B grade and liquid metal would be A grade.

 

Noted. Will be going to the electronic shops and see what I can find.

Thanks again

 

It does depend on your area and what's available, other choices like MX-4 would be better.

 

Hello yet again with another question, I feel that I am beginning to become annoying with these incessant questions..

So the card has arrived and the package seems to be as ordered plus a niknack I recognize from Youtube as a thermal solution.

The seller provided 2 pieces of flat square copper-heatsinks to be placed on top of the GPU. I don't know if it would be wise to place them in or not.

I have found plenty of discussions regarding this with mixed opinions and wondered what your opinion would be.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/i-lowered-my-gpu-temp-by-10c-2-min-mod-and-3-cost.710408/
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2524-update-to-gtx-1060-hybrid-mod-adding-copper-shim
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/lt-cooling-copper-shim-thermal-pad-or-just-paste.18773899/

 

If you have paste from them I would treat that as a method to experiment with and without a shim.

 

those are generally used when there is a thermal pad from chip to heatpipe. if there is already copper then leave that and put thermal paste of good quality. i use artic silver 5... old but i find it still good for all use.

u can go for mx 4 and see themperature .... gpu should never exceed 83°. if heatpipe and dissipation is ok then ull have no problem. gaming laptop generally are already ok. just dont place them on soft things when using.

 

They put it in because modern chips are actually less tall than the old ones (the silicon is thinner as is the package) so the heatsink tends to leave a gap between it and the core.

 

My good gentle-people !

Thank you very much for the help. I have replaced the graphics card with the replacement sent in from China and I have had no crashes and the benchmarks and games I tested have run to the capacity I expected from this card.

I used the Arctic Silver MX-4 as suggested by Meaker and after the research and discussion I decided not to place the Copper Shim.

I would like to note however that I did find one issue and am not sure if its the game or if its something I don't want to jinx.

GTA V, the Benchmarks (Furmark, Performance Test, MSI Kombustor) and of-course Minecraft (honorable mention) all worked and pass their respective tests without any issues and that filled me with glee.

(Section Irrelevant - Solution found by re-downloading and re-installing)
However, when I ran Ark Survival Evolved (Windows 10 Play-Anywhere Edition) I had one minor issue. The game would play smoothly and I even spent about 4 hours last night with my friends playing the game. All the while I had a texture render issue for the Female character model and certain mobs where the skin would look block-like and un-rendered (Screenshot attached - High quality in link:https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjfZHrG-o3IlmVldQLeATCuegiQb ).

If this issue is simply a rendering issue due to the game being one of those heavy duty games and Windows being Windows then in all honestly I will just reinstall and troubleshoot as I dont see this issue in the other games.

But if from your expertise you push a nod towards a hardware problem then I will need to act quick as the buyer protection ends next week.

 

Yes, understood. I have a cooling dock for the laptop so its elevated and ventilated. I also used Mx-4 paste.

I ran the stress test from Furmark and after about 10-15 minutes the GPU had reached 83 degrees which was when I stopped the test as you can see in the log. The laptop fans had kicked up into full gear when it hit the 80 degree mark.

I checked online and Nvidia claims that the normal tolerances are around the 80-90 degree mark.

Should I worry or consider applying the shim ?

 

remember to use gpu-z and leave it running. then after a gaming session (maybe first time shorter to check before doing any damage for temperature) check max temperature to see if all is done ok.