SSD -> Sager NP9261, strange behavior...

Thanks to one of you guys I got a 120 GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD. I took my three existing disks out, switched BIOS from Normal to AHCI mode and installed the SSD. Then I booted from DVD and installed Windows 7. This worked well. WEI rating for this disk is now 7.7.

I am very happy!

Then I reinserted my data disk. It doesn't have any OS on it. I boot the system and guess what: it doesn't find an OS. AHCI BIOS detects the two disks but when I inspect the Bios-Boot menu it doesn't list the SSD to boot from.

I had not expected this. Any ideas?

 

If you remove the data disk, does it detect the SSD again? You may find using IDE/ATA mode instead of AHCI mode may help (AHCI doesn't offer many/any tangible benefits for SSD's. It was designed to help with queueing and some other things on mechanical drives).

 

Maybe the data disk has a MBR on it? But you should be able to boot from the other disk - have you tried F12 or whatever it is to get the boot menu (lists boot devices)?

 

When I remove the data disk, the system boots ok. I am sure the data disk doesn't have any OS on it and I do not see any MBR. How would I remove the MBR?

When the data disk is in, BIOS doesn't list the SSD.

 

that's weird... I wouldn't worry about the MBR on the other disk if the BIOS isn't even detecting the SSD. Maybe try the switch to IDE mode like Malibal suggested? I doubt that would make the difference - but it's strange. Running the latest bios for your Sager?

 

I am running the latest (v22) BIOS Version but there seems to be an additional "Serial ATA AHCI BIOS" (iSrc 1.08 09.07.2006). This is activated when running in AHCI mode. It flashes a small detection reports and detects the SSD correctly every time.

I am confused but could it be so that upon plugging in the second disk, AHCI puts the first disk (the SSD) in removable mode so that the BIOS dismisses it as bootable?

 

The problem could be due to the way Windows 7 doesn't like to coexist with other systems.
I would use both disks; at POST do an F2 click enter the BIOS settings. I assume the data disk may be the first in the boot order.
Try placing the data disk at the end of the boot order list or just making it unbootable with the 'x' option (it will appear in the bottom end of the screen).

 

It could simply be that the SSD needs to be in the right HDD station; the 0 port. On my D900F, I have three, 2 on top of each other placed centrally, just under the touchpad, and 1 is under the battery, The 0 port is the top one of those in the center.

And @Malibal#2: That is simply a false statement about AHCI. SSD's will gain performance in AHCI mode compared to IDE. A simple check with AS SSD (the benchmark software) with and without AHCI mode will confirm that for you.
In fact, in many forums and threads, where people complain about their SSD speed, that it's not what it's supposed to be, the first question asked is "is it in AHCI mode?"

 

No, you misunderstand. Lookup "Native command queuing" (NCQ)

Advanced Host Controller Interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's one of the main reasons to be running AHCI mode on hard disks. For SSD's, that benefit is useless due to flash memory rather than spinning disks. There are quite a few here that had issues running certain SSD's in AHCI mode. (If you don't believe me, google around for it. Freezing on SSD's is a noted problem with certain models in AHCI)

EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that I'm not saying IDE mode is in any way faster- just that an SSD will work in IDE as well as AHCI. Compatibility problems aren't unheard of, so trying both may sort out where the problem is.

 

1. with only the SSD in: a) AHCI controller detects the SSD; b) F2-BIOS lists the SSD as boot disk; c) Windows 7 starts fine
2. with both SSD and the data disk in: a) AHCI controller detects both drives; b) F2-BIOS does not list the SSD at all; c) system reports "Operating System not found"
3. when I remove the data disk (1) works again

I do not understand this.

My guess would be that insertion of the data disk confuses the boot process in such a way that it cancels the AHCI controller and no longer detects the SSD...

My np9261 uses the "Serial ATA AHCI BIOS" (iSrc 1.08 09.07.2006). That might be a dinosaur. I understand that it is in ROM somewhere and cannot be upgraded

I seriously consider to drop AHCI, revert BIOS MODE to NORMAL (IDE) and do a clean install of Windows 7 on the SSD. I am not sure how this affects performance and longivity.

Guidance is welcome!


BTW, ReDuNZL, I had the SSD underneath the battery all the time and inserted the data disk in your, believe it or not, port one. I will check this later on...

 

Certain SSD's have problems running in AHCI mode, yes. That is these SSD's problem, not AHCI's. If you buy quality, that works, like an Intel SSD, you will not have these problems. And you will gain performance putting it in AHCI mode as opposed to IDE. I have seen this myself, and so have many many others.

NCQ: SSD's can use this function in order to use all it's flash channels, to work with many small operations, in parallel. Most consumer grade SSD's has 4-10 channels, and can therefore gain multiple IOPS performance when they can use this function. In order to get the advantage of NCQ on SSD's, you need to have AHCI mode, or RAID.

Quote from a forum article, in which a SSD "guru" describes all ins and outs about SSD's: "As standard, all mainboards is configured to use IDE SATA mode, and not AHCI or RAID. So you need to manually change this in the BIOS, in order to get NCQ. Without NCQ, most SSD's can achieve around 20MB/s read at 4KiB random (5000 random read IOPS), while with NCQ enabled, most 4-channel SSD's can do 60MB/s (15.000 IOPS), and Intel X25-M, with it's 10 channels, can achieve 120-160MB/s (30-40.000 IOPS). It is therefore quite important to use AHCI or RAID mode with SSD's."

This quote is a couple of years old, as you can guess, but still valid. It is also translated.
I could also mention this article: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=505&Itemid=99999999

Edit: I have received feedback from more knowledgable people, particularly about this article I linked to last. They tell me that this article is in fact far too kind to IDE, and that the advantages to AHCI with SSD's is clear and present, and that there is virtually no benefit in using IDE, apart from that there are a few unfortunate SSD's that can't run properly on AHCI. Avoid those. Yes, they will still be faster than any regular spin disk, but being able to utilize NCQ would give them a more than noticable performance gain. The author of the article started out very positive about IDE, and allmost saw AHCI as a waste of space - then got tons of protests, and was provided with more up to date info, and gradually was forced to re-asess and re-write the article. It is still too kind to IDE, though.
Malibal#2's statement was true in the olden days, before there were SSD's that had NCQ support - those days are long gone.

 

Ok, I swapped the SSD and the data disk and now everything is fine. BIOS now detects the SSD and allows me to put it on top of the boot order list.

Thanks for help!