Sager 2090 wait compensation?

Rather than go into the details, I'm going to keep this question and poll simple:

Yes or No:
Should Sager 2090 resellers offer a compensation for the 6 week delay in shipment?

Assume this much:

Resellers are great, they do fight for us - it's not their fault for the delay.
In fact, shipment responsibility goes like:

ups < reseller <= sager < compal (< bizcom?) < contractor/s

Resellers really care about their customers - pride themselves on service.

We can only voice our complaints to the resellers.

 

I don't think so. Like you said, it isn't the resellers' faults so I don't think they should be financially burdened with compensation for us.

 

Yeah its not the reseller's fault.

 

No, it's not the reseller's responsibility. The only reason to offer a compensation is to provide service comparable with their bigger competitors. There is precedent from Dell and Lenovo, probably others. Since we purchase through these resellers expecting better service, and we can only complain through our resellers, is it not in their best interest to offer a competitive compensation?

Here's what I am thinking. A compensation of say a bookbag (with reseller's logo) will keep people from canceling orders, keep customers happy, and help promote their business.

I can accept that there may be no compensation. However, this is not proper customer service in my opinion and will hinder my continual promotion of my reseller.

 

That's a slippery slope, to some, a notebook bag isn't enough to keep people from cancelling due to the wait, so then the consumer would ask for more. How far would it go? Think about how far some people would feint dissatisfaction to get some free stuff.

Don't forget that the resellers aren't as huge as Dell, who frequently give out free stuff and "coupons" every day, so keep that into perspective as well.

"Better service" meaning what? That the laptops are coming faster somehow? Tell me what your plan is to magically speed up the supply and the shipping of the IFL-90s; IMO, the resellers have went above and beyond on keeping us informed, be it through the forums or email or phone. The resellers aren't exactly aren't exactly on the top end of how the supply of the IFL-90s are shipped over to North America, and there's nothing that the resellers can do about the supply of said laptops if they're being made in China, also.

The only real way I can see the resellers at fault is that if the laptops come in their warehouses and they, for whatever reason, keep the laptops in their warehouses and don't ship them out.

 

Resellers definately not.
Compal maybe...
Tim

 

This is where the reseller makes the decision. A laptop bag was a simple suggestion - in the past, lenovo offered a choice of 3 items for an extended wait period. I don't think anyone is feinting dissatisfaction for the 6 week delay. It's pretty real dissatisfaction. Time is money (for both parties), but no reseller or consumer is unreasonable when it comes to compensation. At what dollar amount of compensation would a reseller go to keep a customer? The answer to that seems to be $0.

I think we all agree that the resellers are not at fault for the delay, as I said in my assumption list.

This is not a valid argument. This is akin to the resellers saying "You should have known that it is risky to get involved with small dealers like us. Dell, Lenovo, etc, are more reasonable." Small resellers, in my opinion, rely on their customer service, response and support to be above and beyond the larger resellers. Price is comparable these days.

That being said, I am extremely pleased with my communications and experiences with xoticpc. I'm frustrated that there is no indication of a compensation that competitive resellers would and have offered.

 

ill just say i like money but its not the resellers fault

 

We bought from the resellers for a reason - they go to bat for us. We rely on them, not the deeper sources indicated in my responsibility chain. If compal offers resellers a compensation - great! But I do not think it is our responsibility to ask compal.

 

jjockers i ordered mine the day after you did same config, heard when you gonna get yours in?

 

Drew - I have heard nothing of my shipment date. Still phase 1 I believe.

 

I'm all for free stuff.. but the delay is not the reseller's fault. a chance of delay has to be expected when pre-ordering anything. It's frustrating but they arent the ones to blame. I guess it's jsut the fact that our resellers are the only ones we can take it out on

edit- gah just realized i brought up every point on your assumption list still, I dont think we can expect to get something back for a problem completely out of their power

 

In my experience, it's not so much a matter of who's at fault. It's something the resellers have to ask themselves:

Are my customers happy? If not, what can we do to keep them from dissent?

While noone has complained about communications with the primary resellers here (quite the contrary), it's fair to say that nearly everyone is upset (some have canceled) about the shipping - including the resellers. There does not seem to be any way in which the resellers are addressing this frustration besides "we're sorry". This is especially frustrating when larger resellers, with less reputable customer service and similar prices, would and have offered compensation even though it wasn't their fault.

It's not a matter of blame. A good company assumes responsibility for its customers' discontent and tries to alleviate it as quickly as possible. Pointing fingers and apologizing is not good customer service.

While I am sure the prominent resellers are doing everything in their power to speed up the shipping process, we, who rely soley on the resellers, are still looking at a 2 month delay.

 

well even though i would like compension...i dont think that we should be compensated for the wait. we pre-ordered and we waited.

 

You are a good customer. In fact, as a customer, I can understand that not everything goes smoothly. Many of us can deal with the wait - we're just frustrated. However, I was under the impression that we were dealing with the best customer service in the business. How can that be true if less quality service offers compensation for similar circumstances?

How can it be more profitable and beneficial for a customer service based company to cancel several orders and frustrate customers, as opposed to offering a competitive compensation, keeping orders and happy, referring customers?

 

I think you have to look at the demand for the notebook. There are plenty of people in line when others cancel. For pre-orders we've already gotten the free upgrade to AS5 and bumped up to 2 day shipping for the cost of ground. They gave us these insentives on the front end, I think they've done pretty good.

 

Those are nice incentives and are certainly one of the reasons I decided to purchase. On a side note, I was not offered any reduced shipping package - I asked and was quickly allowed 1/2 off shipping Good service, agreed. However, those incentives were still given under the pretense of a shipping date in Mid-Late June (2 weeks allowance for preorder delays). No such incentives have been given to address the additional 4 + weeks delay.

Is there some maximum, unspecified to-be-expected delay for preorders?

 

i didnt get any shipping upgrade either. although i am very close to xoticpc, but faster shipping is always nice.

 

You say you are very close. Is it possible that you are so close that a shipping upgrade would be pointless?

 

I'm not going to mince my words: a bookbag as compensation is worthless.

The chance that they would send a bookbag I would want to use on a regular basis is pretty close to zero. Think about it. They would be sending a bag that falls into the category of "free gifts". Every time I've received a "free gift" from a vendor, be it a bag or something more sophisticated like a printer, that "free gift" ended up in the closet. (Yea, I know... I should really make use of eBay...) A bookbag would most likely be too big or too small, or not have enough pockets or be the wrong color or have a logo I can't stand or it would be uncomfortable, etc. etc.

 

I'm so close to Xotic that I had to purchase from PowerNotebooks to avoid tax.

 

I didn't order a Sager NP2090/Compal IFL90. However I do not see any reason for resellers to give out freebies, or "appeasement gifts" for those waiting for their order. It's like giving free peanuts to passengers in an airplane who have been sitting on the runway for 3 hours. It wouldn't *do* anything for them. It would probably make me feel worse if I had ordered.
Granted, there are many people that ordered these machines early on like Tim and haven't received them yet. But as noted earlier in this thread, it was not a delay that the resellers could have seen - it happened on Compal's end and there is nothing the resellers could do about that.

 

I cant imagine Powernotebooks or Xotic are making much at all for selling Sagers through their site, and I am sure Sager is causing those 2 to cut back on their margin on their own models. If I were either company it would be cheaper to simply refund the money to people than to offer any "perks"

The fault lies with Compal, and I wouldn't hold my breath on any extras from them: Heck, we cant even get the notebook itself.

 

Don't expect freebies. No one is making you order, so cancel if you don't like it. As stated before, Compal has MANY unforseeable issues to deal with, more than any of us would ever realize. Deal with it or cancel.

And sorry, this was posted a while back in the thread, but it irks me:

The resellers we are dealing with DO have great customer service. There is no denying it, they have PERSONAL ordering, great returns, and they have kept us informed. Asking them for a freebie is way beyond anything they should be doing. They have no control over it, so why should they own their already tiny profit margin because you people whine as much as you can? Get off your high horse. Would you want to pay out of pocket for something you had no control over? I doubt it, but when it comes to getting free stuff, people will raise all the hell they can.

Will a freebie make you feel any better? Would it make you not cancel your order? Honestly, if you answer yes to either, just cancel right now. If you cant afford your own 40 dollar laptop bag, you have no reason to be buying a 1-2k$ laptop.

IF any freebie came out, it should be from Compal, but i honestly don't believe they should. They have stuff none of us can fathom to deal with, they have no "obligation" to keep a set ESTIMATED date.

 

The "stuff" is the cost of doing business, everyone else is making their deadlines. Their obligation is to themselves, if I cancel this order I will likely never look at Compal whitebooks again, thats just the way consumers are.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what happened. When a delay occurs you can upset everyone down the line, or move the cause of the delay and continue onward, obviously only upsetting one order. That doesnt mean that IFL 90 purchasers can't be upset, its great that you are content to wait forever with no concrete news, but don't expect everyone else to feel the same way.

 

The support for the resellers here is of course merited. They are surely doing everything in their power to speed up the process. They are also communicating effectively. It's true that any compensation would not speed up the process. It's also true that a proper compensation to fit each customer's "needs" is not feasible. I have no idea what the profit margins are for our resellers. I assume they don't need to work 2 jobs It may be cheaper in the short term to refund money, but in the long term, less satisfied & referring customers is less profitable.

It's a matter of customer service. It's a matter of principle. Good companies accept responsibility for delays, even if they are not at fault. In the end, we purchased through our reseller, not through compal. If a compensation precedent is set forth by competing companies with less quality service, then a company that claims to offer superior customer service should match the compensation. They, however, are by no means obligated to offer any compensation.

It doesn't matter so much what the compensation would be. I suggested a bag because it's relatively inexpensive, many people can get real use out of it, and, most importantly, it advertises the reseller. Nonetheless, it's the competitive offer as opposed to a "We're very sorry, but no" response that is important. I'd prefer the plane/airport that acknowledged the wait and offered something in return, whether it be peanuts or an extra pillow, then one that said "it's not going to speed up the wait, so we're not going to give you anything."

 

Here’s what everyone should do….

Cancel your orders. Intel is dropping their processor prices in about a week (we can all get the T7500 for the price of the T7300).

If we do this, one of two things will happen:
1.) We all get a better processor for the same price
Or
2.) The resellers will have such a surplus of 2090s with the T7300 processor that they will have to offer discounts to unload the PCs.

If you are waiting 6 weeks already, then another week or so is worth the better processor. They are receiving more and more every day, thus, a 6 week wait on pre order is probably a 2 week wait if ordered in one week from now.

 

As for blaming the reseller or the manufacturer....

I bought my Laptop from a reseller, they are responsible for my satisfaction. If I bought my LT from Compal, I would hold them responsible.

I work in supplychain management and I know that it is every companies responsibility to keep their suppliers in line....not the customer's responsibility.

If I ever own a business, I would love for aeauvian to be one of my customers. But I guess there is customers like aeauvian born every minute right?

 

SpaceMonkey, if you work in supplychain management then you know that unless you have a clear contract with a vendor then the vendor is not obliged to compensate you for anything. Without contractual clauses, compensation is voluntary and depends a lot on how profitable you are to them and whether they really really want to keep you as a customer.

I've been at both end of the situation. Sometimes people dropped the ball on me. There would be no compensation and that's that. Depending on circumstances, such vendors might get blacklisted at my end. I've also been in the situation of being the one dropping the ball. The possibility of compensation would depend on the situation. Who the client was. How profitable they were to our company, etc. Sometimes there was compensation, but often there wasn't. I was not part of the legal department, but as far as I can tell we were not sued by anyone. (I would surely have been subpoenaed if we were sued.)

 

They don't have to compensate. They are not obligated to compensate. But it is a good will gesture. Delays lower customer satisfaction. Many companies offer some sort of compensation to keep the customers business. Granted a lot of us are waiting this out, but I can tell a lot of us are unsatisfied. I don't expect them to compensate me. It would be a nice gesture, but I don't require or expect them to do it.

But I am pretty sure I'm not going to buy another Compal whitebook again.

 

If I was told that I would have to wait this long, I wouldn't have ordered this notebook. Time is more precious and valuable than anything to me. Those who are telling me to calm down sound as if they're trying to show off their composure. I mean some of you sound like you are trying to look cool. Some said the delays were expected (ok i can see that). And also it's true that it's not the resellers' fault. However, even though the delays have been expected, There must be some type of action to SHOW that we, customers, are treated with hospitality. They probably feel terribly sorry for the inconvenience. So why don't they SHOW it to us? If the reseller (XOTICPC) wrote an email and informed me with the news, I wouldn't have gotten this mad... Why didn't they send me an email? I don't know. Maybe I am an unimportant customer to them

 

Sager or whoever the ODM's are should compensate the resellers for the mishaps and then compensate us

 

I completely agree. I wish Xotic had e-mailed me everytime there was a delay or something so I'm not completely in the dark. It is frustrating not knowing when there is so much money involved. I've dealt with delays before and most of the companies kept me updated and in the loop. I'm buying a condo right now and the builders are pretty much constantly in touch with me telling me about delays and progress. I would have liked that type of automatic update with this. If anything, it would show that they want my business.

 

I agree with you there Lamp. I don't know how those who don't follow this forum have handled the delay.

 

True, there has been no email initiative on the part of my reseller in regards to the delay. Is it the responsibility of the consumer to email for updates or read these forums?

 

My NP2090 orders were finalized on the 11th, however when I was configuring them it said upfront on powernotebooks that they were shipping late july/early august, which was then confirmed by Ron over the phone and then by my order confirmation. I figure my shipping hasn't been technically 'delayed' until the end of the second week of august, however if it takes that long I would be fairly frustrated with the wait. I remain optimistic however, and patiently await both laptops arrivals!

 

Well for Arctic Silver 5 is just a rip off(like some resellers charge $15-30). Anybody who built PC's before should know that one little tube of that stuff cost $5-7 and would be enough for 5-10 PC's.

First time I hear about 2nd day shipping, can anybody else confirm this?

 

Most of the cost for AS5 is in the application, not the product itself. you have to be careful to clean each part and apply it properly so there is labor involved.

I ordered the PowerPro, not the Sager so the shipping deals maybe different. I also ordered early so things may have changed.

 

I believe the shipping deal is not a Sager deal. Meaning if you bought Sager, you got no such deal.

 

No its not the responsibility of the consumer. Its the responsibility of the reseller to keep us updated. We are paying them for a service. There is no reason why we should be the ones who should be in charge of doing things that they should do.

 

That has bothered me to some degree. When the screens were switched from glossy to matte, it was posted here but I never got an email. When WXGA+ became an option, it was posted here but I never got an email. With all the delays and estimated dates, they were posted here but I never got an email. That is from 2 different companies as well. If I werent a regular on these boards, then I guess it falls upon me to call them or email them like a pest to find anything out. That doesn't seem right, no offense to any company, you guys all answer our emails, its just that we have to initiate them all the time.

 

Pretty much. I can't recall ever being contacted by a reseller / store about a delay in a product I ordered (might of happened once a long time ago). It's really up to the consumer to contact the reseller IMO.

While it would be nice if a reseller contacted individual customers about delays, I can understand why they wouldn't since it's a lot of work. I think it's a big plus we have Donald from PowerNotebooks and Justin from XoticPC posting in these forums. If anyone here thinks the customer service from these two resellers is poor, you need to read the Dell forum on this site.

 

In regards to customer support/service:
The companies I've dealt with are of two varieties: good and bad. Good companies keep you informed, bad ones don't. I'm sorry you've only dealt with the ladder.

I don't see the difficulty in writing an *update* email and sending it in mass (once) to every relevant consumer in your database.

Rightly so. That's a huge plus and was one of the main reasons I purchased from a reseller.

 

I must have dealt mostly with bad companies in my life because information about deadlines being missed is fairly rare. We bought an HDTV last Xmas at Circuit City. They told us it would get there in a week. A week later, no TV, no news, nothing. Nobody was answering the phone so we went to the store. I was able to find out not only the the TV was nowhere in sight but that the store could not even tell when they'd get a new shipment from the manufacturer. We canceled the order. (See, I do what I preach.) And got the same TV from Best Buy instead. (No way in hell is Best Buy a better company than Circuit City!)

This is just one instance among many. In the past, Dell never informed me when my shipping date changed. This June, I was following what was going on with the Lenovo orders because I was interested then in a Lenovo. A lot of people got their dates pushed back without an email from Lenovo. Heck, I took the plane last weekend and even while we were right there at the gate updates about delays were hard to come by.

Don't get me wrong. I'd rather get updates than not but I'm not surprised or outraged that we're not getting a blow by blow from the resellers.

It all depends on what information the resellers are getting from Compal. There are some cases where the information you get from the people you depend on is so muddled that there is nothing you can tell your client. In those cases, it is better for the vendor to remain quiet than send out updates based on bad information.

 

By "stuff" i mean UNAVOIDABLE problems. If they arent getting shipped a part by another manufacturer (they dont make EVERYTHING themselves) what are they gonna do? Put it together with super glue and saran wrap? They have other companies that might be putting them behind. Do you HONESTLY think they would be sitting on laptops not shipping them on purpose? They want to make money, so if they could they would. Some things arent a cost of business, some things aren't forseeable, some things can't just be ignored while the notebooks are shipped.

Cancel if you dont like the wait. You have a right to complain, but it sure is annoying when theres something you can do about it. Since you havent cancelled yet, I'm going to assume you're just blowing smoke and whining because there's nothing better to do?

 

Who's whining??

 

I'm sticking with my order because I still think the service offered through my reseller is better than I can get elsewhere. Nonetheless, my statement has not been addressed:

It's a matter of customer service. It's a matter of principle. Good companies accept responsibility for delays, even if they are not at fault. In the end, we purchased through our reseller, not through compal. If a compensation precedent is set forth by competing companies with less quality service, then a company that claims to offer superior customer service should match the compensation. They, however, are by no means obligated to offer any compensation.

Back to the airplane analogy put forth earlier. Consider a flight delay due to weather or mass usage (something not the fault of the airline). 3 hours and you may get peanuts. What if that delay goes to the next day? Do they tell you to wait in the airport all 24 hours and give nothing in return? No, they pay for your transportation and hotel. Again, the question is, how long must the delay be before a respected company offers compensation for lost time?

When I deal with a company that prides themselves on customer service (vitamix, salad master, ibex, xoticpc, etc), I expect excellent customer service: the lack of a compensation whatsoever indicates a lack of responsibility on the part of the resellers. It's not their fault, but they are responsible. We ordered through them and can only complain to them.

Ideally, Compal would compensate our resellers who would in turn compensate the consumers. I don't think that is likely.

 

Tell me how this works, honestly. If it's not the fault of the resellers for the delay, then whose fault is it? Obviously, something happened early in the manufacture of the IFL-90 that forced Compal to stop production, thus causing the delay. The information given by Compal which is then in turn given to Sager and the other resellers isn't much, nor is it definitive. Would you rather prefer that Donald or Justin be saying information as soon as they get them, no matter how tentative or untrue they may be? I'd rather have correct info than wrong info, even if that correct info takes time to relay to us. As the resellers have said repeatedly, nothing is certain until the notebooks come into their warehouses. 'Till then, it's all uncertain, be it customs delays, shipping mistakes, shipping delays, whatever.

In a perfect world, maybe.

 

i would be totally fine with getting some cake mix or something, cake would calm everyone down

 

As I said before, it's not a blame game. Fault is irrelevant to us. We rely on the resellers. The laptops are approaching 2 months delayed. Regardless of fault, the resellers, as our only intermediary, are responsible for our satisfaction. However, as was stated before, it would only be a nice gesture - it's up for the resellers to determine what action is appropriate and responsible. No action was the answer I received.

I'd rather the information that was posted here in the forums be sent out as an email to all parties involved. Donald said several hundred, but less than 1000, of these laptops were sold. What fraction read these forums? Emails, compensation, etc - none of that is required. It would simply demonstrate the excellent customer service that these companies pride themselves on.

They've said that here, but I did not see that on my reseller's site and I was not told anything of this sort when I purchased the machine. I was told to expect an early July shipment.