Sager 8800 Update

Sager is only charging like 150$ for the mother board update at this point. The rest of the cost is for the video card. If they are working on the bios change it should be a simple thing to change once it is complete. If they set the bios right it could even be user upgradeable at that. I would hold off any hopes of a quick mod to an existing MB it is not an easy task to do. If they just need to reprogram some rom or firmware it is not to bad. Even changing a chip is not to bad. But when you start rewiring things it can get ugly fast.

 

One has to wonder why a Robust Bios with Voltage and Over/under clocking ablitys is so hard for laptops, When it's so common for desktop motherboards?

I know this question understates the problems, But for a truly "Upgradeable" System the Bios being Adjustable as much as reasonably possable would seem to be necessary
In my Oppinion for a laptop thats north of 3 grand on avg.

I'm sure Cost is a BIG Factor, as a more complex Bios would cost the manufacture more per unit.

 

I think they are more concerned with people attempting to overclock and destroying the laptop. So they keep it locked down as much as possible. The part that I think is ridiculous is that we can't just get a new bios so we can do the upgrade. If the story about Microsoft is true then it is just one more reason to use Linux.

 

it's not easy but eurocom has done it in the past.

 

Sager has done rework on the motherboard as well in the past, and in their upgrade announcements is that if the NP579x can be reworked they will also do this work at no cost for their customers.

What you have to understand is that, the rework solution has to come from the source known as Clevo, Eurocom does not come up with this solution on their own. It’s only do able when Clevo said its can be done, all Eurocom does is carry out the soldering work from an instruction sheet issued by Clevo.

The technical solutions for these modifications are the same. The main difference is quality of work, and I am confident Sager performs very well in this department

With that said, I would just take whatever Eurocom said with a grain of salt.

 

I hope eurocom Does the Mod to the Mobo like they did in the past. Then we will see.

 

Indeed I would prefer a motherboard upgrade that supports completely the new Penryn Architecture in a correct way then a hack on the BIOS. New CHIPSET and everything supporting all the features.

But this is just me. Something that should have been done for the 8700GT in SLI, but becouse it was not now the same workaround does not not work with the 8800GTX. I like to play safe.

Trance

 

Trance

I agree thats part of the reason I am waiting a bit for the upgrade.

 

I think all of us are waiting for this, Sager is going to get A LOT fewer orders of the 8800m if the mobo wasn't an issue and the card was 300$, then I expect that they would be sold out within the week.

I for one would have bought 2, now I'm just going out to get a PS3 for myself with half the money I had set aside for my computer, then I'm going to build a nice Linux server for hosting a Gameserver, should be fun.

Anyone here actually going to do the upgrade?

 

I ordered the card solo for my 570RU since it woudl seem (we'll see for real...) that hibernate is okay (I don't care about 'sleep'). Put in my order for the card already.

If I happen to get it before too many others, I'll share the anxiety^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hexperience

jeff

 

even the desktop 8800 GTX is not $300.

You are right, if it was $300, it would be completely sold out from every reseller because it would be cheaper than current cards, yet more powerful, and resellers would be losing money.

If a PS3 and a linux box serves you better, then that is a different issue altogether. Go see a few hundred movies instead of upgrading, that is probably a better use of your money, that is a lot of hours of fun. dollars to entertainment right?

If you are upset about the price, that is fine. I don't understand the need to post the same thing twice, with ill intent.

 

No But the low supply of 8800 gt's are 300 bucks and close to being on par with the 8800 gtx in the desktop world. (The same chip that the 8800m's are based on)

For me to upgrade, a few weeks after buying this fine laptop (D901C Rev 5) for 3K Bucks, and to stay on the bleeding edge the next month is going to be another 2k For 2-750 dollar video cards and a motherboard upgrade on top of that, Shipping and risking shipping dammage.

Well....As Homer Simson says "Thats Just Crazy Talk"

The two 8700M's will serve me well for now, they can play every game out there. No not at top Resolution, But 60 frames a sec at a bit lower res is not a problem I think warrents spending 2K on.

Others may feel differant ,and are free to spend away.

The good news is that the 8700m's will be on fire sale pricing very soon. (I think i read where Xotic was including 2 8700M's at stock config for the D901C)

In 6 months or a year, when games demand 8800M performance, it should be much more affordable.

Bleed or wait. I think it's a good question that he asked.
So who is going to send in there D901C for the full SLI upgrade to 8800 GTX ?

 

I have to join the growing consensus. I'm not changing my board for one gfx card, that's crazy. Might have a change if enough changes I like are added to it. Until that time SLI 7950 will do me fine. Clevo/Sager have made such a hash of all this, makes me think they are a bunch of amateurs or con artists.

 

bingo!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^

that's what I have been trying to say.
hard to spread anything like opinions, or even things that are True.
This forum Is sudo-owned by Sager and Cronies. you can tell because anything not Pro-Sager, the posts get removed.

 

have to agree there also

 

You mean like Dell/Alienware, who haven't even had the courtesy to tell m9750 owners whether or not there's going to be an upgrade issue and, last time I checked, fob off people who ask with a "wait a few weeks for an announcement" - that sort of amateurisness?

Oh, and BTW, I also think that Clevo (no, not Sager, because they don't design the systems) bunged the situation up as well if, as appears to be the case, the incompatibility comes down to the fact that they don't use EDID-compliant displays on the notebooks - that seems to have been more out of institutional/industry inertia more than anything else (it's not an isolated flaw, most notebooks ship with non-EDID displays).

It seems to me that if you're really going to be the king of the bleeding-edge, you need to be out ahead of everyone on everything, especially the easy stuff, and I have no doubt that NVidia has been making enough noises about wanting to go all-EDID that an ODM that was truly at the top of its game would have figured it out soon enough and switched voluntarily instead of being forced to switch.

That being said, Clevo is still one of the lesser evils, if you will, of the ODM world.

 

Good idea to wait. However two 8700 cannot play every game at 60fps even at lower resolutions unfortunately. A single 8800 is faster than two 8700, plus much less heat and noise, and better driver support.

But I agree that if you have just bought your laptop it is a good idea to wait for a while for na upgrade.

 

That is bit of a harsh comment......

 

While i have not tried every game, I did load UT-3.

Runs great at 1200x whatever the widescreen res is. only have this for a few days now i have just got the SLI sorted out and am just getting to the games i want to load.

TF2 will be next, and maybe i will load ETQW. but i have them all on the desktop, and i don't play ETQW there.

I have no doubt the 8800 is as fast or a tick faster than two 8700m's. there is no SLI 8800m's in a D901c yet to see for sure that they can score 20,000+ in 3DMark 06

A bird in hand.................. Beats two 8800m's in the bush......LOL

I guess it comes down to needs, and wants.

Want it....sure! but not at a 2K price point.
Need it.......No not at this time

I can play everything now with what i have.

 

with my e1705 i was able to upgrade all gfx cards in that gen. no problems.

6800-7950. absoultely no mobo upgrades.

now I know the m7700 did that too. but that was after Mobo upgrades too.

They do have a pattern see.

If I am going to get a laptop, I am most certianly going to get a Dell. Because they Dont mess around.

I got my e1705 and every single gfx card I could put in it in the whole Gen.

Yes they do make their own standard. but guess what. It kicks butt.

You can garuntee that the m1730 will be able to put the 8800 in it # 1 cuz they desinged it themselves and #2. because they don't mess around.

yes the d901 is better in CPU power, but the m1730 looks better, better support, better sustainabilty (not with mobo upgrades, cuz that is just retarded!)

 

Yes, I Agree.

But i think it underscores the frustration felt by owners of 3000 dollar laptops that we understood would be upgradeable.

No One thought that the upgrade path would involve the upgrade costing 2/3 the price for the orignal laptop.
(for SLI D901C Owners)

no matter the reason for the problem between Clevo and Nvidia , miscomunacation, marketing position, lowering cost per unit production.

We the buyers of the rev. 4 and rev.5 motherboards are left to pay the price in the end.

 

With the whole SLI Bridge cable connection, do revision 5.x motherboard users have to switch to a new mobo or not? Was it just the cable that was the problem? Or is there still something that has to be 'fixed' in the mobo? I'm a bit lost on it tbh.

 

not sure if anyone on the outside knows for sure, but it has something to do with the APCI Standard from all the posts i have read.

Theres still a question of 1 8800M GTX Working in a Rev. 5 D901C Motherboard, But not SLI. I have two storys from two venders.

I think we are all waiting for an answer. And i'm sure there working hard to get us some.

 

If that were the case, don't you think they would have said something by now? And while they may have their own "standard" - that doesn't mean a thing since NVidia is making most of the module in-house this time around and they aren't providing support for non-EDID displays, which means that you'll be SOL unless either (a) your M1730 has an EDID-compliant display in it already, or (b) Dell is the only vendor whom NVidia is giving modules to that support non-EDID displays. Either way, I think Dell would have at least told the Alienware crowd already if it was going to be a piece of cake to put an 8800M in the current Dell/Alienware systems.

As it is, Dell seems to be making an awful lot of noise about the "new" systems they're putting out (which really aren't that great) - perhaps as a way of drowning out the wails of the current owners when they suddenly realize they ain't gettin' any.

Bottom line, I wouldn't hold my breath too long if I were you.

 

dude, have you seen the card, they have thier cards specificaly made for their notebooks. I don't care what you say.

they will eventually give it out to the people.

know this.

Clevo has a long track record of screwing, yes SCREWING their customers with mobo upgrades. it's the norm.

Dell has never ever ever had a mobo upgrade so people could have to get a new card or upgrade.

they are wicked in their support. they pay for you to send it in they will send your parts and are very very flexible on their support for RMA and give you a new notebook even for a 2 year old notebook that you stepped on or run over with your car. (complete care, if you got it. and it's not that much.)

They will come through.

 

Yeah, Clevo screws its customers by allowing them access to newer technology. Damn them! Damn them to H E double hockeysticks!!! *Shakes his fist in an impotent rage*

I can see the new Dell moto, "Even if your stupid and clumsy Dell has a laptop for joo!!"

 

Welcome to capitalism, and the world of laptops.

 

Does Dell even offer cards to upgrade with? I was not aware they do.

 

dell offers cards. they are way easier to get than clevo. just type in geforce go on ebay. or fx2500m, or 7950gtx. the Only ones are DELL!

almost every Dell notebook you could upgrade cards in all the way back to the i8200. (geforce 2 gt 32mb) back when like no laptops had a gaming card.

they have cards spec designed for them. but they always have an ubundance and they are totally modular.

I can put a 6800 to a 7950 in my m1710.

I have a fx2500 a 7900gtx 512, a x1400 and a 7900gs for my m1710 and my e1705

 

LOL.
very true sir, But I don't have to like it.

c'est la vie


Thank you Sir, may I Have Another?

(Ya From Animal House when the pledge is being hit with the Paddle )

 

"Dude," there's just one tiny, teensy little fact you don't quite seem to be grasping:

NVidia made the 8800M modules in-house, and they did not include support for non-EDID displays, and they gave the ODMs and OEMs very little room to customize.

Now, nobody here has the actual facts (or if they do, they aren't posting them), so the possibility that Dell will come through in the clutch cannot be a priori excluded; however, on the basis of what is known, you are unlikely to be able to upgrade your Dell from an 8700 or a 7950 to an 8800 unless either:

(i) the display unit currently in your notebook is fully compliant with version 1.3 of the E-EDID standards promulgated by VESA, or

(ii) Dell gave NVidia the world's biggest royal corporate bj, and is the only OEM that is going to get 8800M modules from NVidia that do support non-EDID displays.

In either case, Dell would already know, without a doubt, that its own particular little idiosyncratic version of the 8800M was going to be compatible with the 1730s and m9750s already out there - do you really think Dell would play so coy that the only thing they say is "wait a few weeks?" I don't think so, they would either be trumpeting their triumph to the world, or at the very least would have leaked enough info out by now that some serious buzz would be building. Now, I know they haven't done the former and, while I may not be the most in-tune individual, I haven't heard any of the latter, either.

Make any sense?

 

Correction: eBay offers cards, and I see one overpriced 7950GTX.

 

Exactly. I concur with everything except the first line.

I don't believe that in this age of technology that tearing the heart out of your laptop every time there is a change required is a clever thing to do. Therefore I must conclude that Clevo's think-tank department for laptop design is full of sells reps and no techs.

I've also noticed the rather convenient situation of resellers who can say well it has nothing to do with us because Nvidia changed to EDID and Clevo makes/purchases the boards. In reality Clevo makes a lot of money from the resellers. More or less laptops sold by the resellers will inevitably increase or decrease Clevo/reseller profits. Therefore Clevo must be responsive to concerns from the market (resellers=ultimately the consumer). In this situation (MoB upgrades) that means the resellers are not putting any pressure on Clevo (how do I know this?because of the number of MoB changes recently and KNOWN MoB changes in the future), which in my book lays part of the blame for this nonsense at the door of the reseller. Why is there no negative feedback from resellers, because the situation suits them fine (Cha-ching$$$).

I'm in no doubt that if these MoB changes had a bad impacted on business that a solution would be found very quickly. Good business sense (if they have any) would dictate that they probably have something in the pipeline already just in case this methodology backfires and the lucrative trade in replacement MoBs evaporates.

To me good business sense means responding to obvious potential problems before they materialize so that you are not forced to adapt, not on your own terms. This is why I think Clevo/Sager/Eurocom etc. are either amateurs or con-artists, likely both. That's my penny's worth.

 

Uh . . . are you new to the world of laptops?

It's a conspiracy!! :sigh:

This one of the secrets of the industry . . . they make money by selling products.

There is no factual data to support this, so lets just assume every reseller thinks screwing the customer is good for business.

More secrets of success . . . oh wait, they already have a solution. Or do you mean they should build a time machine and go back in time to convince Nvidia to re-engineer the 8800? Considering that's the only other way to fix this, its not much of a stretch.

Let's also not forget that the number of people who would actually want to do this upgrade is a miniscule proportion of the total number of laptops Clevo sells, so that pretty much makes your entire argument moot. The amount of money they make by people upgrading is literally a drop in the bucket.

 

double post oops

 

You can say this about almost ANY product. Almost any manufacturers rely on the middle man to get things sold. That's why we have grocery stores instead of having to go directly to the farm to get our dairy, veggies, meats, etc.

Granted some manufacturers let you buy directly from them but when dealing with foreign companies such as Clevo its common for them to rely on a reseller if they are not big enough to establish their own subsidiary in other countries.

 

No one Believes that 3 Motherboard changes are part of Clevo's corporate strategy. (at least i hope not.)

I do believe that it is a sign of at least very little communication between Clevo's suppliers, Or a needed last Min. change in the 8800M's to solve a Tech problem supporting All types of displays for Nvidia. (that way Nivida gets the easy out, and Leave's Clevo holding the bag.)

Desktops are easly upgradeable because of set standards, One's that Laptops Seem to be missing, even in the 21st century!

How Sad.

What Price Progress?
Well about 2K this Time.......LOL

As Far As Nvidia goes. Conspiracy, Marketing, Corporate strategy, Captialism, just good business. Call it what you wish.

We were just handed that same Bag if we choose to Upgrade.

 

the D900 has had a history with motherboard revisions ever since it's inception. i have experienced these when they first started popping into the picture with my D900T. i have heard all of these same arguments before and it leads to nowhere as nothing will change with clevo and the way they do business. the resellers will turn a blind eye. the fanboys & the ones not affected will continue to spout nonesense. the ones that are affected will be forced to suffer through this by venting on the forums.

if my memory servers me right, i would like to go through the history if clevo's motherboard revisions.

first motherboard revision required a heat plate underneath the GPU slot in order to upgrade from the geforce 6800 gddr2 to the gddr3 versionn.

second motherboard revisions required a new motherboard to accept the geforce 6800 ultra after dell's exclusive rights ended with that card and it was available to other odm's. this revision was necessary because the motherboard's thermal limits could not handle the new gpu.

third motherboard revision required a new motherboard to accept the geforce 7800 series through the 7950 series cards. this revision was necessary because the motherboard's thermal limits could not handle the new gpu. this was the last motherboard revision for the D900T and it was when the D900K was introduced so the D900K was not affected by any revision.

now with the D900C, we have experienced similar motherboard revisions.

first motherboard revision required a new motherboard to accept the quad cores. this revision was necessary because the motherboard's thermals could not handle the new cpu.

second motherboard revision requires a new motherboard to accept the 8800m gpu cards. full details are not known at this time.

i want to add that when i first purchased the D900T back in spring of 2005 the first XPS and I9300 from dell were competing with clevo. unlike the clevo, these two dell laptops did not require a new motherboard to upgrade their gpu's! from that moment i knew that clevo was screwing with us by feeding us the thermal argument. they should have designed their laptop to accept higher thermals than what was currently offered, like dell has done and is still doing.

i also want to add that i found it humerous and disgusted that clevo used the same thermal argument with their quad core motherboard revision on the D900C the original D900T had a higher cpu thermal limit ffs! the D900T could accept the 125w p4 3.8 ghz from the get go.

you guys can continue to blame nvidia all you want. but you have to recognize, that no matter how ironic it may seem, dell has done a better job in terms of upgradeability than clevo has.

 

txqzr4 I just posted my opinions of things. Next time please read what I've written. From what you've posted I can tell you didn't understand the gist of what I was saying. Taking things I've said out of context is not clever, in fact quite the opposite. Also at no time did I mention a conspiracy, though it may seem like one sometimes, mostly it's just business. Example, in the UK several well know supermarket chains have just been fined millions of pounds for price-fixing various products meaning the customer was not getting a fair price for these goods. Price fixing cartels exist for a reason, it reduces fair competition and that means fewer price wars where everyone (except the customer) loses money.

By the way the full sentence was: "In this situation (MoB upgrades) that means the resellers are not putting any pressure on Clevo (how do I know this?because of the number of MoB changes recently and KNOWN MoB changes in the future)".

The above is not a fact but it is logical. Remember we are not talking about massive new tech, we are talking about a MoB change to use 1 gfx card, sold by one company.

I have no problem with people putting me straight about something or even questioning my reasoning, however you did neither. You obviously had trouble understanding what I've written, but I'm willing to try and educate you (yes that is sarcasm).

To afitzwater: The point I was making was resellers can and do put pressure on their suppliers especially when they feel the pinch. I believe resellers are not giving proper feedback to Clevo. As I said the situation is good for them, so I'm sure they are not too bothered. This would change if less people bought their products because they don't want MoB replacements 1-3 months after spending a lot of money on their machines.

I'm sometimes surprised by the amount of apologists (on this thread) there are for these companies that are obviously screwing people over.
Makes me think either (1) Worst form of social apathy. (2) Some of these people don't own a laptop. (3) Some of these people don't own a Clevo machine. (4) Are so wealthy they buy all the latest tech for their laptops and fundamentally can't understand what all the fuss is about (i.e. spending a further few hundred bucks on an already expensive machine is a non-issue). (5) Are Clevo/reseller reps .

 

I agree, I too find it strange how most people on this forum seem to be defending Sager / Clevo or are just saying that this is normal. Clevo probably knew in September, when nVidia released the new MXM spec, that 9261 is not going to work with 8800. They probably had early prototypes of 8800 as well. And yet they let their customers buy 9261 in full knowledge that they will have to be replaced by November.

 

back to one of my old posts pointing out the Osborne effect:

From Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

The Osborne effect is exhibited when a company's revelation of information about future products results in customers not purchasing (or delaying purchases of) the current offering. Its origin is a purported suicidal marketing mistake made by the Osborne Computer Corporation in the 1980s when its announcement of a successor to its Osborne 1 system led to a sharp reduction in sales, and the delay of the successor system created a revenue vacuum from which the company did not recover.

 

It was a satirical response, but I'm not quite sure how anything was taken out of context.

 

LOL, great movie!

 

If half as much brain power went into the process of researching and then purchasing a product instead of trying to analyze and prove these conspiracy theories, These "b*tch sessions" would not exist.

If none of this is new, it would have been just as easy to research the product before purchasing.

By the way, I fall into #4 and Animal House rules!

 

I kinda agree with Habib. I knew that the 8800's were coming out since last July. There was rumor of it back then, that is why I purposely waited until the 8800's were released before buying. I mean I feel sorry for the people that bought a brand new gaming laptop in November, but a little research could have told them that the 8800's were going to be released soon.

 

Don't be sorry, it is not going to help. Product life cycles for pc's are short. You strategically denied yourself the pleasure of working with one of the finest rigs, during the last months. Now you can claim your opportunity but then your motherboard will have to be replaced if you want to upgrade to the new line of processors. Or are you going to sit that out as well? Then nVidia seems to be coming with a 9xxx series card as well. This does not stop, understand? The lesson: buy and enjoy!

 

I didn't deny any pleasure. I was able to run all of my games with no problems. My issue was that I wanted to upgrade to DX10 and figured that the 8700's weren't the answer since they couldn't even top the DX9 7950's. And from what I am hearing the new line of processors will not be available for notebooks until Apr08. I am fine waiting until the next GPU's become available in a year and upgrade both at that time.

But I will read and keep up with new technology to buy at the right time.

 

That is a fair enough point. However not everyone has the luxury of being able to wait so long to purchase their laptops. Someone's laptop might of burnt out, their work may require something more powerful than the laptop they already own etc. I have to agree with hanko panko to a point. How would you feel if you waited that long for your laptop, and then say had to get a MoB replacement just to use your 8800GTX in SLI (for example). I'm pretty sure you would be pretty tick off by that. Why, because you would have expected that would have been considered, or why would such a small thing require such a big change.

 

This is very true. I remember browsing through the Rock forum when they were going to release their x770 (i.e. sager 5790/Clevo 570RU). They gave hints that a new model was in the pipeline (as well as the mandatory 'accidental' machine ad), and a lot of the people on the forum said yep I going to wait until I get my rock because there is a new model coming out. One guy questioned the owner of Rock on the his ethics of only hinting to people now (a month before) because he bought his machine a few weeks before that and was ticked off. From what I remember Rock's reply it was something to the effect of "what other company do you know would make an announcement even a month before they release a new model and risk losing current revenue". I thought, he's got a good point. However, the risky game must be played, because it's better to have someone wait for your model than to wait for another company's who have already announced theirs (which may in fact be the same model under a different guise).

 

I got so lucky with the NP9262. I originally ordered at the end of the november the NP9261 with a single 7950 GTX. Xoticpc ran into so many issues in dealing with the damn credit card company for setting up an alternate shipping address that it took at least over a week to process the order. By that time I noticed I could just get the single 8800 GTX for only a couple hundred extra. I immediately canceled my order for the NP9261 and am going to pre order the NP9262 soon. As much as I hate stupid master card for being such idiots I am kind of glad now that it happened.