Sager/Clevo versus Alienware in Pricing: Closer than you Think

When configuring both 17" options from Alienware (M17x R3) and Sager/Clevo (NP8170/P170HM) the pricing difference between the two is not nearly as big as some would lead you to believe.

Setting it up with:
Upgraded LED (WideFHD on Alienware, 90% NTSC color gamut glossy on Sager/Clevo)
2720QM i7
GTX 460M
4GB RAM (2 dimms)
320GB 7200RPM single HD
DVD+/-RW
Intel 6250 wireless upgrade
Win7 Home Premium 64-bit (as Dell does not have a "no OS" option)

Alienware: $1899
Sager/Clevo: $1859

Plus you have the (arguable) added benefits on the Alienware side of HDMI in and backlit keyboards. I recognize that Sager/Clevo is more user-friendly for upgrades and likely more reliable (plus more user configurable in terms of buying)...but it's interesting that the price vista for the two is not nearly as much. I've seen a lot of forum goers outline that Alienware are way overpriced. But this is as apples to apples as you can probably get with them and they are damn close.

I'm not trying to troll or anything...I am seriously debating whether to go with the R3 or the 8150 or 8170. I've never owned either so I don't have a reference with that.

Thoughts?

Sources:

hidevolution.com - Alienware M17x R.3 Custom Built to Order

Sager NP8170 (Built on Clevo P170HM) Custom Gaming Laptop

 

Wow, very interesting. Damnit, why can't Clevo/Sager get their shiznit together and put in a backlit keyboard!?

This makes me rethink my order...just a little.

But how does anyone other than Dell get to distribute Alienware? Is this site legit?

Edit: No GTX485M option? Hm, I am sure Alienware will charge much more than $500 for that upgrade. And how do you know that their monitors are the 90% ones?

 

Compare to the S1 configuration with two 750GB HDDs and Intel 6300. Once you start upgrading, the difference becomes quite wide, even with the S1 having a more expensive card, the 470M.

 

Tapakidney:

Yeah, it's our only pricing guide that we have for now. It should be reliable as it matched up with what others said price-wise in this thread. Unfortunately, Dell removed all references to R3 on their site until it is re-launched. So this info is from January. When the R3 is back up, it will surely have the 485M and the 6970M as options. That's why I used the 460M because it was consistent across both.

Also - you're right on the screens, it is unknown if the Alienware is 90% NTSC color gamut - likely not. If you remove that option back to basic it's:

$1739 Alienware
$1639 Sager/Clevo

Definitely...but a lot of us are doing the upgrading on our own. Adding two 750GB HDDs you bought for dirt cheap? Trivial. And if I had a choice between getting the 460M for no added cost or paying $200+ for the 470M I'd rather keep the 460M as I will be upgrading to either the 485M or the 6970M (or waiting). Just my personal thought process on buying, however.

 

I feel like upgrading the video card later will come out substantially more than at the time of purchase though... I've heard numbers like ~$800 for a standalone purchase of 485M.

 

Yup...which is why I said I may wait. That's probably the route I will go (wait for 6970M availability - which may not be long with Dell as the 6970M version was reviewed last week at laptopmag.com: Alienware M17x (2011) Review - A Review of the Alienware M17x (2011)).

 

No matter how close the price goes, I'm not going for the alienware. They've had enough documented hinge problems on past models, not to mention the poor consumer side customer support and oftentimes subpar hardware (they go with cheap off brand parts, which I can attest to from my XPS m1530).

They've also got flashy designs than the Sagers, which I find to be a personal dislike.

No way I'd pay more for all the above. I'm quite happy with my 8150/485m pre-order.

 

As malibal says once you upgrade a system further than stock the price difference becomes more evident.
Also as a gamer/entrepreneur, there is no way you would catch me using an alienware in a business meeting lest i wanna get snickered at.
The sagers with their understated looks and performance is the best of both worlds for me.

 

HDMI in: that is some very nice feature; I am not sure why it comes deactivated with (some) Clevo's, but I have heard accounts that you may have to pay up to 500$ for that feature.

 

^
It is an awesome feature...if it works decently. This R3 owner posted some screenshots that make me wary of the quality:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/7200904-post185.html
It could just be his laptop...but I don't know how likely that is. I asked if there are any color controls/etc. when in HDMI-in mode and no response, yet.

 

Well, I had the M17x R2 and it's build quality was far superior than that of my Clevo M570RU although it didn't have HDMI in. But those are just one model of each brand and not indicative of each companies entire lineups. This new R3 could be worse in quality than the R2, and the newer Clevos might be better in quality than the older ones. The colors do seem weird with those HDMI in pics from the R3. I would assume though that it's just an issue with that particular laptop.

If it's not an isolated thing, then hopefully these issues will be rectified when the R3's start shipping again and the colors can be tweaked, or Dell will get a lot of returns.

 

My cousin got his r3 before the recall, and he loves it. He's about as OCD about quality as I am, so it must be up to par. Otherwise he would've returned it within an hour of getting it lol.. Nobody wants to pay 3k for a laptop, and not have it be up to your standards

 

After all this comparing of Sager/Clevo/Alienware/etc. now I am back to Apple, lol. Debating just picking up a 15.6" MBP with the 1GB 6750M. It ain't a beast but it will play the games I want to play and it should support BF3 on medium at least.

Macbook Pro 15inch 2011 ATI 6750m Game Benchmarks - MacRumors Forums

 

I considered it too, but I decided I want more power, even if that means 'a bit' more bulk.. I'm still waiting till next week (CeBIT) before I decide to change my order, if I change

 

Why bother? They start at $1799 and come with the 6750 which is almost 30% slower than the 460m in the 8130/8150, which cost almost $500 less. You're getting less performance for more money, and you'll end up installing windows to play games anyway. This is the most nonsensical statement I've ever read. Heck, you could almost buy the 8150 with the 485m for that much...

Edit: whoa, not even close. That 6750 model starts at $2200, which is more than my much superior 8150 config with the 485m

 

Right-o. I understand all of that. I'd be going for the top-end 15" with an EDU discount. I love Mac OS X and I would just slice out a spot for Win 7 for when I want to game (primarily BF:BC2 and the upcoming BF3). It's smaller, lighter, more professional looking. It's all opinion...so I don't expect you to understand. I've owned two MBPs previously and loved them. Plus they have a real high ROI so you can just upgrade every year to the latest and greatest with very little loss of $$$.

 

He could be preferring form over function.. If games aren't his priority, and he's got $$ burning a whole in his pocket.. I mean I can see the appeal, I too wish I could have a laptop that's only half an inch thick and gets 8-10 hours of battery.. But gaming hardware adds bulk And kills battery

To each his own I suppose

 

^
There's that. But you get great battery life on the R3 with the switchable graphics!

 

That's true.. My cousins reporting 5-6 hours with light use man.. If only clevo's board supported switchable graphics. I understand that it's a bit glitchy, but hopefully it'll get resolved with a few software uPdates. AMD doesn't seem to have issues with their method (other than maybe the dedicated card still consuming a bit of power when not in use.. Think I read that somewhere..)

 

6970M supposedly does switchable on the m17x r3 so hopefully it will have it for the Sager/Clevo's too

 

Would AMD's method of switchable graphics work in the current sager's?

 

I think the important thing to point out is that we're all different people and it's pointless to get people to understand why you/me/we do things we do when it comes to shopping for "our" laptops. We all have our own preferences based on our needs. That said, my own needs/thoughts...

+Rep also for pointing the Alienware r3 and the review here since I wasn't checking the Alienware forum at all and wouldn't have bothered if you didn't initially point it out on this Sager forum...(I'm now reading both! Talk about a time drain!)

I was pretty set on the 8150, then the 8170 and now the R3. For me, I would probably go stock with everything and just upgrade everything myself if I could. Definitely the Memory and HD initially. Since I wasn't planning to upgrade the Sager either, the gap isn't as big as someone who is putting SSDs or 16 GB in their system.

Alienware seems just as easy to open up so that shouldn't be a huge issue (Alienware even has videos). The price difference for me is a little bit more though:

Alienware: $1,649 (Upgraded screen only)
Sager: $1,479 (I need the O/S)

How good/bad is the Alienware screen?

If the 6970 is a ton more separately, then I will probably just get that option (pricing shouldn't be too different I don't think) and not waste time trying to sell the 460 or 6870 included.

Does Dell let you configure these machines without a HD or memory?

I think what sold it for me was on the 8170, you don't really "get" that much more compared to the 8150. The keyboard is smaller, I hate the 3 column number keys and the additional drive bay isn't that important to me. I think the 8150 was much more well thought out and at 6.83 lbs, an awesome machine. I am using an old Dell Inspiron 1520 now (weighs the same) and it works ok so I don't have as negative of a view of Dell so far. The 8170 is nice, but being only lighter than the Alienware, doesn't seem to offer TO ME as much at this point. That can all change later in the year.

I suppose if price wasn't a concern, would more people choose the Alienware due to the features alone?

I don't care for all the Alienware logos, colors, but after looking at it, I figure I can turn them off (like the MSI GT) if I need to. I don't go to an office anymore neither so it's not a big deal at this time (nor am I in school (I wish!)). The alienware is heavier by 0.8lbs and 1.09" deeper (but 0.08" less wide and 0.02" less thick).

I saw that youtube video when someone compared the alienware with the sager and I was Sager all the way, but that was before I read the review and all these other features.

Other things I really like about the R3 is the backlit keyboard. I forget who, but someone asked why we want back-lit? I just got the Logitech Backlit keyboard and love it. I grew up working in dark offices (SGI, people turn off the lights) and now, I still usually work in front of the computer mostly without bright lights overheard or around. The backlit helps a ton when you have the keyboard on your lap also. Sager is supposed to have this option late this year so I could change my mind again, but they should really make the keyboard bigger as well.

The switchable gfx of the R3 sealed it for me. 5 hours+ of battery life for general browsing, simple use is enough for pretty much the whole day...I think the Sager gets 3 or so?

HDMI in is included free I think (thank's to someone who pointed that out to me) so that's a nice feature that I might/might not use...Still nice to have it available if say we do a drive up to ski and at night, decide to play PS3 with the kids.

No Macs for me so won't even go there!

Also the wireless display stuff, but that's probably an add on charge. Nice to see it available though and maybe there will be sales on Dell. Does Sager ever have sales? I think the resellers can and will go lower that posted prices though.

I've read also that some folks got their R3 for 30% off (1300) so that makes the comparison even easier...Dell also has lots of coupon codes, EPP (employee purchase discounts like 10%) so you can actually haggle with them to knock the price down further...

That's what's I'm thinking about now. That could change tomorrow of course.

No need for anyone to get snippy. Some folks have to bring their laptop to an office and yeah, the Alienware looks more fanboy/boyish, but we aren't all in that boat. I also agree that Macs probably have better resale value than Alienware, then Sager.

 

I think for a 15" machine, I'd go with a Sager too. Alienware doesn't seem to offer the 485 in their 15" as an option (maybe until a refresh?) so I won't even consider them.

Like my other message, I think if you go 15", the 8150 is a better choice.

 

Try outside the US. Both my M980NU and X8100 were massively cheaper than an AW equivalent at the time I got them.

As an example based on prices as though I was buying now;using these specs:
Intel® Core™ i7 740QM
4GB Dual Channel Memory (2x 2GB DDR3)
1024 MB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5870
320GB 7,200RPM SATA-II HDD
17-inch WideXGA+ 1440 x 900 (900p)

In the US the M17x starts at $1799 with a 740qm, in the UK an equivalently specced machine costs £1718. This translates to $2762 based on XE.com.
By comparison, I can get a Clevo X8100 with a 740QM, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD and 1920x1080 screen, with SLI 460M for £1905.

To upgrade the M17x to dual 5870ms would cost another £345 ($554).

So to compare:
Clevo X8100
740QM
4GB DDR3
460M SLI
500GB HDD
1920x1080 screen
£1905

Alienware M17x R2
740QM
4GB DDR3
5870 Crossfire
320GB HDD
1440x900 screen
£2063

Given the slower screen res and smaller HDD; I'd say that makes Alienware seem a bit expensive by comparison, as it costs $250 approx more with with a weaker, cheaper screen and smaller HDD
The difference in prices has actually CLOSED since a year ago as well; the price difference between the Clevo and Alienware used to be even larger, it was about £500 when I put my money forward; about $750 equivalent. Quite a bit of money!


As another example - upgrade costing:
To upgrade the 740QM to an 840QM or 940XM With the X8100, the current rate is £182 for the 840QM or £594 for a 940XM. Alienware want £400 for the upgrade to 840QM or £880 for a 940XM! OUCH!

Thats a difference of approx £220 ($350) for the 840, or £290 ($470) with the 940.

If you were to go for a 940XM and the dual card setup equivalent to the Clevo, the Alienware would end up costing you the equivalent of over $700 extra. Stuff like this is why people generally say Alienware costs more!

 

Yeah, outside US is pretty insane pricing from Alienware. R3 is a good deal, though in states. Having a hard time deciding between that or a refresh x8100. Time will tell.

 

If alienware offered something similar to the specs I have in my sig, at roughly the same price, I'd consider it. But they don't, and I will never go for anything bigger than 15". I like the balance of portability and power in that size. My fiance has a 17" Qosmio and that thing is just massive.

I like the understated looks of the 8150 and the fact that it's (so far) the only machine out there with the 485m, which tears apart the 460m.

Does anyone know what power supply the alienware has? Could it even support the beefier 485m?

 

in price war , the winner always CLEVO

in quality control , winner always CLEVO

you could prove that , easily

 

In price yes most of the time (not by much in North America), and in quality no not always. Speaking from my experience here (having owned both Clevo and Alienware). The M17x I had was remarkably well built and was the best "build quality" laptop I have ever owned. Older Alienware's before the Dell takeover though were notorious for sub par build quality.

 

Easier to void your Alienware warranty, but Dell does let you haggle so the price difference might not be that huge your right. My XPS was retail $2500 but I got it at $1450...

Especially at the 17 inch size its pretty competitive this generation because that seems to have been the focus for AW while Clevo seemed to focus on 15.6 this time around.

 

This may be obvious, but I'm going to ask anyway: how do you go about haggling dell? Do you call a sales rep or go to a dell reseller?

Just curious.

Thanks,

dp

 

You are allowed under warranty to open up your Alienware and replace parts, as long as the original parts are in the laptop if you ever needed to send it back for any reason. The warranty was surprisingly quite flexible. It was one of the big reasons I went Alienware last time instead of Clevo again.

Another reason was the fact that my configured Alienware was only slightly more in price than a similarly configured X8100 at that time (for a Canadian), and also looked much nicer IMO.

 

Having the switchable graphics is great, so is the HDMI input. I do like a backlit keyboard, but I don't like all the other bling in the AW laptops. I kinda wish they made a more subtle XPS version.

 

Call Dell directly, haggle with them.

 

As I mentioned, it really depends on your situation. It sounds like outside the US, the prices are much higher for Alienware so it makes a lot less sense price/performance wise. For "ME", the gap seems to be worth it (FOR ME) if I can work them down even a little for the plusses above. My example above has a $170 gap. If I can even get 10% off, you're pretty even price wise...If you belong to CA AAA, you can use EPP and right off the bat, on the old R2 (since that's the only one listed), I think the discount was like $35-40...No work there.

I know very little and am reading there too so check out those forums if you're interested. There's a whole thread on haggling on the Alienware forum section there.

I haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like prices are more firm now, I expect that they would loosen up a bit after things slow down after the Intel recall and systems become more widely available...

 

yeah, if you're going to try to haggle with dell, definitely wait till like end of april/may. otherwise the most you'll probably be able to get off is EPP (if that applies) and like $50. easiest things to also get are free overnight shipping, and a free bag (since it's a beast of a machine, they should throw one in). also, i've noticed that if you do qualify for some kind of epp, they'll give you a much larger discount then if you dont. so check to see if you apply (school, work, AAA, military, etc)

 

Correct your SIG it's Nyx 1711 not Pollux

 

My bad lol..

I switched from the Pollux to the Nyx.. Now I'm switching back to the Pollux anyways..

Thanks for the heads up