Sager NP 8258-S

I am planning to buy the 8258-S.
Are there any issues I should know?
Also, will I have problems with the wireless network disconnecting due to the router?
Thanks in advance.

 

Get the Intel AC card and make sure you use the 17.x drivers for both the wifi and the bluetooth.

I've found the nic rock solid. Once the wifi drivers were updated having it re-establish lost connection is quick, automatic, and painless.

The headphone jack is flakey without the latest sound drivers and hotkey driver. The hotkey driver is required to run the app and equalizing effects of the 2.1/5.1 subsystem.

The touchpad is touch as all hell and you need to use the config menu (under the mouse setting -> touchpad) to increase the pointer speed to around 10, turn down the scroll speed, and remove the pinch to zoom/shrink gestures as they become far too easy to miss-hit.

If you dislike smudges, the matte rubber finish tends to show fingerprints quite a lot (the oil in your skin). Easy to clean, but if you're a neat freak it'll annoy you somewhat.

The keyboard is amazing but the small changes in key sizes (like right shift key) and the page up/page down gets a bit of time to get used to. Once you're used to it you're fine.

Otherwise, going on 6 months now owning it and have had zero issues with the actual performance, cooling, or the overall quietness of the fans. Incredibly happy with it.

 

I am planning to buy it from xoticpc.
I think they install drivers themselves.
Here are the specs.

Sager NP8258-S (Clevo P157SM-A)
- Free XOTIC PC T-Shirt (Orders over $1499.00) (Specify Shirt Size in Checkout)
- No Back-2-School Special -
- Special Upgrade Package – “the Boost Package” – GPU Overclocking + Operating System Redline Boost ($130.00 Value!) -
- No Back-2-School Special -
- No Back-2-School Exterior Finish Special
- Free XOTIC PC T-Shirt + Lanyard + Mousepad (Orders over $1599.00) (Specify Shirt Size in Checkout)
- No Back-2-School Notebook Cooler Special
- FREE - WATCH DOGS for PC! (While Supplies Last / Must be requested in comments box during checkout)
- FREE!!! – U.S. UPS GROUND SHIPPING (Use Coupon Code "FREESHIP" in Checkout) [U.S. Lower 48 ONLY / Restrictions Apply]
- 15.6” FHD 16:9 LED Backlit Wide screen (1920x1080) Super Clear Matte Type Sager Screen (SKU - SSC005)
- FREE! - 30 Day No Dead Pixel Warranty
- XOTIC PC Professional Monitor Color Calibration (Operating System is required) (XPC Service - requires shipment to XOTIC PC)
- Sager - 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4810MQ (2.8GHz - 3.8GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache) (SKU – SPU401)
- FREE! - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 880M (8.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express DX11 [User Upgradeable] (SKU – GPU02X)
- COPPER COOLING UPGRADE - Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (XPC Service - requires shipment to XOTIC PC: will add to build time)
- No Video Adapter
- No External Mobile Display
- 16GB DDR3 1600MHz [2x8GB] Dual Channel Memory (SKU - RAM04S)
- Sager Branding
- Standard Laptop Finish
- No Laptop Laser-Sketch™
- No Custom Laptop Painting
- RAID-0 Storage - (Stripe) Combines mSATAs for performance. (Requires identical mSATA SSDs)
- 120GB Crucial M5 mSATA SSD ( Storage Drive ) - Stock
- 120GB Crucial M5 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured as an OS Drive ( Operating System – Drive C: )
- 1TB 7200RPM [SATA II - 3GB/s] (SKU - HDD097)
- None Standard
- HDD Raid Settings - OFF
- 8X Super Multi DVDRW/CDRW Combo Drive (Sager) (Dual Layer w/ Software) (When selecting a Hard Drive in the Optical Bay, No Optical Drive is Included) (SKU - ODD085)
- No Extra Optical Bay Hard Drive Caddy
- No Back Up Hard Drive
- NO External USB Optical Drive
- Bluetooth Included *With select wireless cards only* (See “Wireless Network” Section Below)
- Sager - Intel® Dual Band AC 7260 802.11 A/AC/B/G/N 2.4/5.0GHz + Bluetooth™ 4.0 (SKU - WIFI94)
- No Network Accessory
- Internal 9-in-1 Card Reader (MMC/RSMMC/SD/Mini SD/SDHC/SDXC/MS/MS Pro/MS Duo)
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- No Carrying Case
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- No Car Adapter
- No Spare AC Adapter
- No Dock/Hub/Adapter
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- No Headset
- No External Keyboard
- No External Mouse
- No Notebook Cooler
- No Thanks, Please do not Overclock my system (Overclocking will add 3-6 business days to build time)
- No Operating System Redline Boost
- ~Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (64&32-Bit CD Included (Supports up to 16GB of RAM)) + MS Office 2013 Trial
- None
- No Antivirus Essentials Software Bundle
- No Back Up Software
- No Unlimited GB Cloud Backup
- - No Microsoft OFFICE Software
- No Software Bundle
- No Global Anti-Theft Protection (Options below require an operating system)
- LIFETIME Ltd Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Technical Support (Labor through XPC)
Includes FREE Shipping Both Ways for Parts Warranty Repairs (SKU - WTY099)
- * 24/7 LIFETIME U.S. based technical support
* Extreme QA testing by dedicated technicians
* 24-72 Hour stress testing and benchmarking to ensure top performance and stability
- Standard Production Time
- No Outside of US Shipping Coverage
- No thanks, standard double boxed packaging is okay with my order
- No XOTIC PC Gear

 

Since you have Windows in the build the drivers will be preinstalled.

 

And about the wireless network. Is there a specific kind of router that I should use?

 

You can use any but to take full advantage of it you'll want one that also does AC. I have an Asus one.

 

Oh, also spend the extra $30-$50 for the bluray drive.

it's much higher quality.

 

So the AC does not have issues like the Killer?

 

I had issues with the AC until I went to the 17.x drivers. It's been absolutely rock solid since.

 

How about heat problems? Will the IC Diamond and the copper cooling help maintain heat levels?

 

Because, correct me if i'm wrong, overclocking will increase the temperature, I am a bit concerned with the temp going up to dangerous levels.

 

I don't bother overclocking, you'd have to ask around.

Another thing you need to concern yourself with overclocking, if that's what you intend to do, is the 8258-S comes with an 180W power supply.

With a thirsty 880M and the 4810 i7 there's not much wiggle room on that 180W power supply. If you significantly overclock either the CPU or the GPU, you're going to have some power starvation.

There's after market 230W supplies you can get that others have used without problem, and I even picked up one to use for mine incase I do play around with overclocking. It works fine.

For thermals, it depends on your ambient temperature.

The GPU tends to clock up high because NVidia wants the GPU to crank and continue to crank with as many clocks as possible. So the GPU tends to clock up until the thermals get high, then starts to lower clock speed to achieve a maximum temperature. It's not uncommon to see low 80's and even low 90's (when cranking for an extended (6+ hours) on the GPU in a warm room.

This is what I have noticed.

In a 26/27c ambient room.
Borderland 2, 1920x1080, everything ultra/max. CPU 81c, GPU 91c (they were spiked temperatures, not consistent, which lowered once the fans ramped up some)
Witcher 2, 1920x1080, everything ultra. CPU 78c, GPU 88c (funny enough, putting it on uber, which this laptop *CAN* handle, didn't raise thermals much)
Skyrim 1920x1080, everything ultra, GPU 78c, GPU 86c
Fallout NV 1920x1080 everything ultra, GPU 76c, GPU 83c

In my normal room temperature (22c)
Borderland 2 (same spec) CPU 79c, GPU 86c
Witcher 2 CPU 76c, GPU 84c
Skyrim CPU 76c, GPU 84c
Fallout NV CPU 75c, GPU 82c

Thermals with the Coolmaster U3:
Borderland 2: CPU 70c, GPU 76c
Witcher 2: CPU 71c, GPU 74c
Skyrim: CPU 66c, GPU 72c
Fallout NV CPU 61c, GPU 68c

If you force fan on max, it would drop a GPU from 88-91c down to around 81-83c. The fans rarely hit max (if at all) otherwise.

 

Where did you get your 230W power supply?
Performance wise, are there any problems?

 

There's a post or three on the 8258 support thread of a Dell 230W supply and a dongle adapter for it. Both work great.

The links provided originally by HTWingNet were:
Power (Dell PA-9E) PSU: http://www.amazon.com/Original-PA-9E-Replacement-adapter-Notebook/dp/B00AVMYMUG/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1406308700&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=Dell+PA-9E+PSU
Dongle Adapter: http://www.bixnet.com/cntx75.html

As for performance issues I'm not sure what you mean.

Any game I play I've had no issues with at all in maximum everything. Fluid, no jitters, no pauses, or refresh issues that I can identify.

Dishonored, Bioshock Infinite, Fallout, Witcher 2, Skyrim, Borderland 1 & 2, Wastelands 2, the laptop absolutely powers through them all, and scoffs at them.

Unless you're a fps junky and must have that above-and-beyond 60+fps in every scenario, I honestly don't think you even need to worry about overclocking it.

 

I'm only thinking of overclocking it because games in the future will need better specs. If overclocking it wouldn't be that demanding, I'd go for it.

 

Point.

It boils down to what an acceptable fps is to you and if you mind differences between 'ultra' and 'high' settings. With a large majority of games, the differences are subtle or non-existent except for an exceedingly keen eye.

I had a 360M in my old gaming rig which was an overheating piece of filth, but the card still played today's games, just not on ultra. I had to turn down to high and drop down AA to 2 or turn it off on highly demanding games.

The game play was still enjoyable and was for the most part fluid.

Just after nearly 5 years, it was time for a new laptop so I got the 8258-S.

I figure when I bought the laptop, the 360M wasn't even the top line video card, and it still lasted nearly 5 years with current games. I figure the 880M, which is bleeding edge, and far more memory than it knows what to do with will last likely 7-8 years as long as I don't mind turning down the settings a bit after 7ish years.

And I figure by then, some smart modder will have had mods for the bios that will allow the 900 (and likely 1000 series) cards that would work in it as well.

I'd likely replace the video card with a newer model sooner than I would overclock it.

 

I just want to optimize what it offers. I think overclocking is better than buying a new graphics card in the future.

If the price of better performance is buying a better power supply and a cooler, I'd take it (given that they're all I need to eliminate/decrease the threat of overclocking).

Though i'm not totally familiar with overclocking. Will it drastically decrease the lifespan of the notebook?

 

Overclock it down the line, it should not be needed for just now.

 

The problem is, I don't know how to. And if pros are doing it in xoticpc, why not let them do it? I mean like I said, If the price of better performance is buying a better power supply and a cooler, I'd take it (given that they're all I need to eliminate/decrease the threat of overclocking). Would you care to clarify that? Are there any more problems/side effects to overclocking?

 

The problem is, I don't know how to. And if pros are doing it in xoticpc, why not let them do it? I mean like I said, If the price of better performance is buying a better power supply and a cooler, I'd take it (given that they're all I need to eliminate/decrease the threat of overclocking). Would you care to clarify that? Are there any more problems/side effects to overclocking?

 

Just the standard risks of any overclocking really. If you want it done now and warrantied then get it though i dont know how much you get or how they tweak the 880m.

 

I guess I'll just overclock it at a later time then because I can play the most recent games at ultra settings and overclocking wouldn't be much of a change, right?

But what about the raid options for the SSD? Should I get raid 1 or raid 0? Should I have it preconfigured as an OS drive or have it as a storage drive?

 

The OS would benefit the most from a SSD.

If you go raid-0 (striped) the overall speed will improve, as the I/O is shared between the drives, but reliability is lowered, since if you lose one drive you essentially lose them both.

If you go raid-1 (mirrored) the overall speed will decrease only slightly, as every write operation is going to both drives, but read is only done on one drive. The performance would be nearly on par with a single SSD. The read speeds will be identical, but the write speeds will lose likely 10-15%. What this does buy you however, is redundancy. If one of the solid state drives fail, you don'/t lose your data. you put in the new solid state drive to replace the failed one and it will re-mirror up and you are back to redundancy. It's a great option for peace of mind, and frankly if I was to have two SSDs that would be the option I'd personally choose.

Again, only have the SSD for the OS. You don't really buy much for games. The only thing the faster performance would buy you with games is the load speed. So for the time ti takes to start the game, and for any games that have to pre-load mapping data from the HD, which frankly is minimal since most games these days pre-fetch the information and store it in memory. So for games, this would buy you very little. So for data drives, use the 7200 rpm drive.

Finally, while solid state drives have become pretty reliable, they still have a maximum of the number of writes they can have for each sector. Exceeding this will fail the drive. The larger the capacity of the solid state drive, the longer the life is as it can delay writing to the same 'sector' more often. Physical drives (like the 7200) will always have a longer life span for writes. It's just natural.

As for game performance, yes, the 880M can chew through any game you toss at it, and at pretty much ultra specs at 1920x1080.

 

In raid 1 the read speed is increased over a single drive since it can pull data off both drives at the same time (like Raid 0).

To be fair if data is important you should be using an external backup rather than relying on internal redundancy as if anything physical happens to the machine you still loose everything.

 

This is not entirely accurate.

Current raid-1 (mirror) tech does allow parallel reading, but, and here's a big but, the raid software as well as the OS and the filesystem have to be appropriately tuned to use the advanced parallel reading for raid-1. I believe Linux MD raid as well as Solaris (ZFS) can do this. NTFS I don't believe can. Maybe Windows 8.1 can, not investigated the differences in their NTFS build out.

Even in this case, the read speed at most, is only marginally better than single-drive read speed. It honestly just doesn't buy much over it.

And it would only really improve with how the individual disks do its caching routine, and only for multi-threaded read requests, which not many applications take advantage of.

The array system that tends to have the fastest read speed is raid-5/raid-6 and such.

 

I want to try out the SSD first, so I'll just use one slot and keep the other slot free in case I don't get satisfied with the results.

On the topic of SSDs, which is better: 256GB Crucial M550 mSATA SSD (195$) or 250GB Samsung 840 EVO Series mSATA SSD (200$).

And just a follow up on the coolers, Ashen-Shugar. Do you think the notebook coolers that xoticpc offers are good enough? I don't want the hassle of ordering the Cooler Master U3 from a different source if I can just order a cooler that will come with my laptop.

 

I unfortunately can not comment on the ones that xoticpc sells. I've not personally used them or seen a comparison based on what I, myself, have purchased.

I got the coolmaster u3 cooler because it has moveable fans which I found rather nice.

I think, personally, as long as you have a laptop cooler that elevates the back, and one that offers fans that are positioned such that the airflow can work well for where the air intakes are on the laptop, it should generally be 'good enough'.

Anyone at xotic or anyone who has used those coolers will be able to give a better opinion. Sorry I can't help more.

 

How's the Coolermaster U3? I might consider one if my temps get high, but I have probably the weirdest overclock profile. +400mhz on memory, -50 / +50 depending on the application, haha.

 

I am VERY happy with it.

It elevates the back, leaves plenty of space, and the 3 fans are quite quiet, and I notice an average of 6-15c difference on the GPU with this. usually 1-7c different on the CPU

 

On the topic of SSDs, which is better: 256GB Crucial M550 mSATA SSD (195$) or 250GB Samsung 840 EVO Series mSATA SSD (200$).

And which is a better OS for gaming? Windows 7 HP (95$), Windows 7 Pro (145$), Windows 7 Ultimate (95$), Windows 8.1 (80$), Windows 8.1 Pro (135$).

I am opting for 7 HP (cheapest among 7s) because I'm used to the features of 7, but I'm thinking that in the future, game developers might make games exclusive to 8.

Are there any advantages if I choose 8.1? And can I play old games on 8.1 (like late 90's/early 2000's)? I heard that 8.1 has compatibility problems to some games and a problem with steam.

Or should I just switch to Windows 8.1 when it is really needed?

 

You are right It really should not be hard to extract a little extra read performance but I guess it's just not the focus of the type of array.

 

To answer some of your questions I can play most games fine on Windows 8, and the ones I can't usually work with compatibility mode. Windows 8 has no obvious advantages over Windows 7 in terms of overclocking.

Personally, I would choose a Samsung (from personal experience), as they seem to be more reliable than the others I've bought.

 

I did some research and found out about a problem concerning the drivers for the 880m. Do you have the 327.23 or a later version of the driver? (Solved. They make sure the notebook works perfectly through the stress testing.)

I talked to xoticpc about overclocking and they said that they overclock up to safe levels only (taking into acoount that the 880 heats up quickly). They said that they can overclock it to a higher level if I get the ic diamond (which is free now). Do you still think that I should overclock at a later time?

 

I'm at work currently and not at my laptop, but I think I am using the 337.88 Driver

Overclocking is up to you. However, overclocking always does have a slight chance to lower the life expectancy of the GPU in question, and frankly the 880M is insanely powerful as is.

To put this in perspective.

My last laptop I purchased was an Asus G51JX-X1 with the 360M card in it.

It overheated a lot, it was much slower than it should have been, and overall my experience with the Asus gaming laptop was... underwhelmed.

But despite all that, the 360M still allowed me to play Skyrim, Witcher 2, Fallout NV, Supreme Commander, XCom Enemy, Planet Explorers, and several other titles that are quite demanding on resources.

Granted, it would absolutely choke on ultra on half those games, but some I could squeeze by on ultra if I disabled AA and turned down shaders and still get enough over 30 fps to be playable in a relatively smooth framerate.

So, a 360M lasted me about 4 years, and it wasn't even top of the line when it was released.

The 880M is bleeding edge, and will likely be able to keep up with games on ultra for years to come. If you're frugal and don't mind somewhat lowered framerates (30-60fps instead of the 60+fps) and maybe twiddling down to high instead of ultra, the 880M, as stock, will likely last you 7 or more years. Likely longer than you even plan to keep the laptop.

And by then you'd be free to overclock and by then a lot of people will have all the specs to overclock an 880M to maximum performance without risking damage.

 

I am using the 327.23 drivers with my 880M. It works for everything I do and I have no issues with it.

From my experience with the NP8278, overclocking the NP8258 will be a roll of the dice depending on how flat the GPU heatsink is from the factory. Mine was pretty warped and I had terrible heat issues until I sanded it flat. That and a couple of other mods and I have yet to see over 77c during gaming with the fans on Auto. My GPU is overclocked to 1058 MHz and my memory is at 1450 MHz. I seriously doubt that you will achieve that level without some work modifying the stock parts. My GTX 880M used to hit 93c and throttle from the factory. I don't think this is typical of what you will see. I think mine was just really bad.

 

How flat the GPU heatsink is? "Sanded it flat"? Sorry. I don't know what they mean. What mods did you do? I will achieve what level? Your 1058MHz? Sorry.

 

The area that contacts the GPU was not flat. This means that there was only point contact between the GPU and the heatsink instead of the entire surface of the GPU contacting the heatsink. Heat from the GPU cannot transfer well if the mating surface isn't flat. So I removed my heatsink and sanded it on a flat surface
(machinists 1-2-3 block) to make it flat.

It sounds like you should either have xoticpc overclock your system or wait until you learn more about it and do it yourself.

 

Ill try open up my computer as well to see if the heatsink warping really makes a difference. On another note, I did manage to get some wire mesh for my modded back cover. (Thanks deadsmiley for the idea).

 

The heatsink not being flat is extremely difficult (impossible?) to see with the unaided eye. The easiest way I have found is to actually sand the heatsink and look at it. It will ne plainly obvious if it isn't flat. I got a 10c reduction in GPU temperature from sanding my heatsink.

 

Contact paper might work too though you may get through a bit.

 

I did a quick search for pressure sensitive paper at one time and all the results I found were quite pricey. You are talking about something else?

 

That is the stuff. The slight issue is that perfectly flat may not actually match depending on the heatsink and the way pressure works on it.

 

I just bought the 8258-S. Thanks for all your tips.

I have one more question though. Isn't the notepal u3 big for the 8258-S? And where do you place the three fans?

 

It'll fit the 17" as well but it's not 'noticeably' large if that's your concern. I place one fan under the intake for the GPU, one fan for the intake for the CPU and one fan for the vent that covers the largest area of the copper heatsink between the CPU and GPU to increase air pressure and throughput.

Tends to work wonders to remove the heat.

Playing borderland 2 for 6+ hours at max everything ultra 1920x1080, in a 22c ambient room, these are my temperatures with the coolmaster U3:
GPU: 81c peak (averaged 76-81c)
CPU: 75c peak (averaged 71-75c)

Very very happy.

Without the U3 My GPU tended to hover between 84-88c and the CPU hovered between 76-80c after 6+ hours (which without any laptop cooler is still more than respectable for Borderland 2). And this was without the fans blowing max. If I put the fans on max, it'd have probably hit around the cooling of the U3 (but been a bit louder than normal).

Without the U3, in a 28c ambient room (a rather hot and humid room at that), with this game my GPU hit 91c and my CPU hit 83c. Which frankly for a hot room without additional cooling is still quite respectable. Again, fans still didn't ramp up to max, though it hit max once or twice during high graphic intensive areas.

I'll try for kicks Friday (when my wife's out of the house) to play Borderland 2 with fans on max with the U3 and see, for giggles, what the thermals are.

I'd estimate the CPU will probably barely hit 70, likely mid 60's and the GPU will be mid 70's.

 

So doesn't it slide because the cooler is much bigger than the notebook?

 

I've not had it slide yet.

 

How do you stop it from sliding?
Cooler Master NotePal U3 laptop cooler Review - YouTube
8:55

 

I found I had to do nothing. The normal rubber feet on the bottom of the laptop are enough to keep it solidly on it.

 

Ditch the stock U3 fans, buy 3 Rosewell RFX-120 120mm case fans, and a SilenX IXA-FCEX fan controller. Then cut away some metal from the U3, and see how much <del>profit there is to be gained</del> temps can be dropped:



This is after 30 minutes of Watch Dogs on Ultra with SMAA: (everything on stock, Liquid Ultra on CPU with -80mV undervolt, Gelid GC Extreme on GPUs, ambient temp was 25°C/77°F)

 

I'll likely look to mod it if I see one or more of the fans fail.

Right now I'm getting plenty of cooling where I'm not concerned with modding it.

With only 30 minutes of Borderland 2, I rarely hit over 72c in the GPU and hover around 68c on the CPU.

It's pounding it for hours that tend to level out the thermals at a higher level.