Sager NP5170 build quality - sent it back

Hi all,

I thought I would share with you the reasons I returned my new 5170 which may help some in their decisions. This is a buyer beware thread not intended to offend anyone. But rather to give you a heads up. After careful review and testing I determined this machine will not cut it for my uses.

Pros I found:
* Excellent speed for most applications including power hungry Photoshop CS4
* Bootup time fast
* Lack of bloatware
* Upgraded screen via XoticPC which has nice color gumut with pretty good viewing angles
* Keyboard, though light to the touch was workable
* Very light weight for all this power
* Free (budget) carrying case

Cons I discovered:
* Overall flimsy build. It felt like I was driving a car with a Porche engine inside an old VW bug frame. This was surprising, even though I knew it was their entry level system. It just felt like a very cheaply built, bare bones chasis. For example the CD/DVD player was very flimsy. It rattled and clunked noisily almost like it was going to fall apart while installing software. It felt very weak when ejected, almost like paper mache.
* Sound - these are absolutely the worst sounding speakers I've ever heard from any laptop, bar none. They sounded like speakers from a $3 little radio - tin can like. Even my wife's junky old HP laptop had better sound quality. And that was the worst I had heard until now. For a budget $300 or $400 laptop I sort of understand. Scrimp and save on the cheapest possible parts whenever/wherever possible. But not on a $1000+ system. I mean how much could a little better sound system really cost Sager? Or a little better quality CD/DVD player? Were talking very little compared to the overall price. Do ppl plan to play games, watch movies or listen to music with this laptop? Well then you better think seriously about your decision.
* Touchpad - the pad surface itself is scatchy, like rubbing sandpaper. I could learn to live with it. But the mouse buttons are terrible! The worst I've ever seen or used. You have to crank down on them with force each time you want to perform a click. This is rediculous for anyone who performs any serious work with editors like photoshop or anything else requiring prolonged, responsive use. Forget about it. An external mouse would be mandatory.
* Screen - though nice color gumut mine had a hot/red pixel right in the middle of it! That's not good especially when I spent $200+ extra for a screen upgrade = unacceptable. Though apparently a hot pixel on a brand new screen falls within the acceptable range for the screen manufacturer. I guess the customer is wrong in terms of what matters to them.
* Spartan controls - lack of any decent multimedia buttons for controlling things like sound.

So for me it was the overall build and user interface that were the deal breakers. I wanted at least average quality, like my Dell Inspiron. I'm not talking Macbook Pro level. But the fit and finish does not cut it at all for me. Attention to detail making daily use enjoyable is lacking. For those into pure power (the internals) without much concern for the user interface it will probably be fine. But I like a more well rounded system (inside & out) which looks, feels and functions with higher quality.

I could have lived with some of these things, but not all, especially for the money. I'll most likely purchase the new Asus N73SV or Dell XPS17. I'm not looking for perfection. I just don't want to take a big step down from my current Inspiron 1720. While it's far from perfect it's quite a bit better than the NP5170 in these areas. And I'm giving it to my kids once the new system arrives.

This realization didn't take long to discover after loading on all my software and beginning to do my normal work stuff. So I called XoticPC and they were very helpfull about getting me an RMA and also apologetic about the screen.

Derek

 

To be honest, to me it sounds like you got a lemon. I would suggest you get another 5170 just in case, but if you're still unhappy, then move to greener pastures.

I feel that the majority of 5170 owners will be happy and satisfied with their machines. In either case, I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

Mr. Mysterious

 

While I agree I got a bad screen (hot pixel), the rest of the things mentioned won't change such as the touchpad/buttons or the sound system. If the other things weren't issues I may have lived with the hot pixel for a while.

On top of that it costs ~$65 in shipping when buying then returning systems. This part is not refundable. So its not like you can buy and return as many as you like without cost.

That said I also agree that for certain users where these issues aren't as impotant it will be a fine system. It's really based on one's requirements, expectations and where they are coming from (old system).

When I spend ~$1350 I want it to be an upgrade from my older system in more than the internals (faster, more memory).

Derek

 

Pixels in the middle quadrant are never acceptable, not even just one.

The fact that they shipped it to you anyway bothers me.

If you're spending $1.3k, why not step up to the NP8130?\

The NP5170 is a budget build, and it shows very clearly.

 

Actually...that's a good point. But his needs may be different. In either case, you (OP) can read many reviews on the 8130 (pssst, I recommend mine ) and decide whether or not it is for you.

Mr. Mysterious

 

To be fair to XoticPC the hot/red pixel is upper third and center, but still annoying none the less.

The NP8130 is 15" and I need a 17" screen. The next Sager up is the 8170 when configured with upgraded screen, memory, etc... is quite a bit more.

Yes, I can't imagine the next level up being as skimpy on quality parts/materials. But even so there are sub $1000 machines with better sound and touchpads for example.

The new ASUS N73SV has much nicer fit and finish. However it's not 1080p.

Derek

 

I think you are being a bit dramatic on the description of the touchpad as sandpaper. It might not be as smooth as you like, but I did not find mine noticeably rough or textured. Pretty much the same as other touchpads I have used. I also noticed no difference on the buttons from any other touchpad I have ever used, but you are apparently a more discerning user than I am. I pretty much prefer to use the extrenal mouse anyway. My DVD player does not exhibit the same rattles and clunkiness you are describing. I will grant you however, the sound on this thing is as bad as I have ever heard on a laptop.

 

Derek--you mentioned the N73SV as an alternative. I had the N73JQ for a short period of time and returned it for two reasons:

(1) The screen had poor vertical viewing angles and poor black levels.

(2) Keyboard was the worst I ever used on a laptop. If you're going to be typing a lot on your laptop, I would stay away from the N73SV, unless it has a different keyboard than the N73JQ. But judging from the pictures of the two, they seem to have the same keyboard.

I would recommend checking out the N73SV at a store first before you order it. I wish I had done the same.

 

So, what is the upper range of your budget?

Have you considered the Envy 17?

 

When I first read the title of your thread my first thought was oops did I make a mistake. However reading through your detailed review I feel better. Your top 3 pros of -

* Excellent speed for most applications including power hungry Photoshop
* Bootup time fast
* Lack of bloatware
are important to me. The negatives don't apply.

The noisy DVD player is no issue as once I load about 3 software programs (Office, Quicken and printer software) I only use the DVD once a year to load Turbo Tax. I've never used the native speakers as I've always had my Bose speakers for sound. Ditto with the touchpad. I do a lot of copying, cutting and pasting so I always use a Logitech mouse with programmable keys.

I think you will like the Dell, that's what I have been using and I really have no serious complaints about it. It's a little more expensive and the bloatware sucks, but it's been a good performer for me. In fact my wife is anxious to inherit it!

 

A dead pixel with the non-stock screen upgrade is unpleasant and unacceptable indeed. As to another issues you have mentioned - something caught my attention right away:

You mean you seriously intended performing any serious work with photoshop using the laptop's touchpad? It is totally up to you, but I will risk an educated guess that you won't ever be able to find the touchpad fully capable of replacing an external mouse for this purpose.

As much as I understand your disappointment, I suppose that the whole concept of buying the cheapest, entry-level Sager for serious work might be somewhat unreasonable.

 

Yes, I actually do this kind of serious Photoshop work right now with my current Inspiron 1720 without an external mouse. It's quite accurate and responsive. I don't have any complaints in this regard. However I never said it was as good as an external mouse. But I want a notebook to be capable enough to perform fine controlled tasks without requiring an external mouse. For this the 5170 fails.

While this may be the cheapest Sager, it stilll cost a lot of $$ - in my case over $1300. It should be at least up to par with other notebooks in this market segment configured similarly.

However as some have stated they don't have the same requirements as I do. So I'm not saying it won't work for everyone. For example they don't use the speakers or the mouse. Maybe it's used more stationary (like a desktop) connected to a bunch of external devices. But if I wanted to do that I would just get a desktop. What's the point of a mobile device to begin with? I want to be able to take the thing on trips, various locations and to be fully functional (mobile computing). Along with that it should be able to function well in all parts of my house, not just one room at one desk. Again those are my requirements. Everyone will most likely be different.

But let me ask you this. Would you rather have a computer with decent to good sound and better controls (touchpad, mouse buttons, mutlimedia buttons, etc...) and better build overall quality or one without these things, all else being equal (internals)? That is where the downgrade exists for me with my current (older Inspiron) and this new Sager. It's a step backwards for me in a number of ways, though obviously the CPU, GPU, etc... are newer.

Lastly I'm not trying to convince anyone not to buy the NP5170, especially if they have their minds made up already. I'm just giving the other side of the story that doesn't always get conveyed when new notebooks are released. One can obviously choose to ignore my findings. But the info is there for those whom these things might matter. I'm sure I won't be the only one returning it for various reasons. It would be nice as someone mentioned if these could be seen first and testing at least partially before buying. But unfortunately that is not possible for most ppl.

Derek

 

I feel the same way but I am not in a position to return it back. I have the Sager NP8130. I had a few stuck pixel. I ran software that would help fix the stuck pixel and let it burn over night. I was able to remove all of them but one. I still letting it burn in during the day while I am at work. Hopefully I can remove my stuck pixel. Also My top case on the LID has some blemishes.

Also I ready sold the old 8GB ram to a supervisor and brought the Kingston 1600mhz ram. I also install ODD and super glue the face of the old DVD drive to the ODD. I also install a OCZ SSD and the BIOS doesnt support it well, sometime it would see and boot or not.
I am still upset about the stuck pixel I been trying to get xoticpc support but I am not process in the system yet so they can't help me until then.
I want to return/exchange but I need it for my software development class.

I invest so much time and money. If i could return/exchange I would do it in a heart beat. But I would hate to go to my supervisor and ask for my ram back. Also I modify the DVD drive so I dont think that is returnable. Not only it would cost like 65 dollars to mail it back....

 

That is the point... I doubt there will ever be a vast assortment of laptops configured and priced similarly to Sager ones (if there will be - Sager might as well cease to exist). Guess that is the reason why some build quality drawbacks might exist. I cannot confirm this myself, since my Sager NP7280 is by far the best laptop I owned - in terms of build quality and, most importantly, how it is engineered and constructed.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, it was a pleasure to read, and it gives a lot to think about.

I paid the most attention to the dead pixel in your screen upgrade - if they replace the stock screen anyway - how hard is it to turn the laptop on and make sure that the screen which costs a significant extra is okay? Is it the way to force the customer to pay for this separate "no dead pixel" rip-off?

 

Maybe its as simple as their lower ends units like the 5170 are just that - lower end. Sager is known more for it's mid to upper end systems for gaming, etc...

This lower end Sager model is kind of in a strange market segment (for them) competing with Dell, Acer, HP and a number of other manufacturers who sell notebooks in even lower end categories. So when you take Dell, for example, and spend ~ $1200 it represents more of a mid level XPS system with Alienware as the next level up and also their top of the line. This is not including their business line such as latitudes and precisions which we use at work.

As far as the stuck pixel, I was kind of surprised after the screen upgrade also. I'm assuming it was an oversight. The XoticPC person I spoke with both apologized and stated that the hot pixel was within the manufacturer's accepted guidelines for quality control. I don't know if that meant I would be out of luck had I asked to have it repaired or not. Since I was returning it anyway I didn't bother to ask. Though it certainly helped in my decision.

Derek

 

Not to troll, but you seriously use a touchpad for Photoshop work?
Also, your experience with the 5170 is definitely different from mine with the 5160 (though yes, the speakers are utter garbage but I knew that going in). I too would be very upset if my upgraded monitor came with a dead pixel in themiddle of the screen... That is just not acceptable.

 

Yep, I have done serious photoshop for years on my laptops. However I am also much more selective when it comes to laptops with good touchpads than most users. So when I first started using the 5170 it was pretty shockingly bad by comparison, basically unsuable for fine tuned controlled work.

What I don't understand is what genius decided to create mouse buttons which are so difficult to depress? No normal mouse is like this. Is it like the macho mouse button approach or something for ppl who never really use them anyway? The design makes no functional sense to me. By contrast the resistance on all my previous laptops have been pretty much perfect - a little more than regular keyboard pressure. Its like second nature to use them without even really having to think about it.

Derek

 

Not to troll either, but I seriously think with current deals coming every week on new XPS 15/17 models, it may be hard to justify going after sager 5160/70, unless sager could further lower their prices, or offer other goodies that XPS doesn't have.
I for one was seriouly looking into 5160, but eventually got an XPS 15 (2630qm, 6gb ram, 640gb 7200rpm hdd, 525m gpu, 1080p display, intel 6230 wireless, backlit keyboard, etc) for $850 shipped (and that's including %8.75 CA tax and recycling fee, so base price was below $700) - could have got 540m gpu paying $100 more, but didn't consider it a worthy upgrade, and still, this machine comes with more ram and hdd than the base sager configuration, it has an excellent display and speakers, and it has OS (could be a minus given the bloatware, but some people will have to pay $$ for their OS if they got a sager). Just my thoughts.

 

IMO, competition is always a good thing for the consumer. The same is true with my primary hobby of photography. If Nikon didn't constantly push Canon and vice versa then prices would be much higher and features far fewer. When it comes to laptops I really don't care what the label says, especially since most come from somewhere else anyway (e.g. Compal, Quanta, Clevo, etc...). Dell just happens to have more resources and can apply more pressure when they want to. Through their coupons they can completely turn the tables at times. With laptops bang for the buck is the bottom line. Of course there are less tangible things which come into play like warranty plans, customer service policies, reliability, consumer confidence, fit and finish, etc...

Derek

 

I can't seem to replicate that price, although I may be looking at the wrong XPS15. When I price out your specs it comes to $1260 ( $1348 including shipping and MA sales tax). Same thing happened when I priced a comparable Dell to the 5170 when Dereksurfs said his Dell cost less than the 5170. The Dell was $341 more (actually $452 more because I don't have to pay sales tax) for specs that weren't quite as good as the 5170 (256GB SSD vs. 300GB SSD on the Sager).

I know Dell periodically runs promotions (that's how I bought my current XPS15), but they don't seem to be running them every time I price them, or what coupons they do have don't apply to the model I want.

 

I like the XPS 15 but as someone who works for hours on end in front of my computer i just can't for the life of me use a glossy screen anymore. That and Dell's customer service has never impressed me.

 

Well, I actually found the coupons here on notebookreview's Dell XPS forum. They can also be googled and found on various discount websites. I used three stackable coupons good until the end of the month and saved over $400:

Dell has the Dell XPS 17 Core i7 17.3" Laptop (Silver Anodized Aluminum) for $1315 (depending on configuration):
* $300 off with coupon code 8GHR80Q1PLLCF7 [Exp 4/30]
* $100 off with stackable code QFSNKXG0P1S1BK [Exp 4/30]
* $0 shipping with stackable code HLSKSR06S9ZG0F [Exp 4/30]
= $915 shipped.

I would also price them with standard drives as well and consider the SSD as an after market add on. That way you can shop around for the best price and it will save you more $$.

Derek

 

nevermind.

 

Yes, as you and Derek mentioned, you have to wait for the promotions to get these prices, but then again if you frequent online deal websites, they are constantly posting XPS deals every week. Perhaps Sager should also consider running promotions every once a while to sweeten up their offerings...

 

AH HA! Thanks Derek.

I spec'd out basically the same computer (actually the Dell was slightly better with a GT550M vs. the GT540M, although the wireless card isn't quite as good). The total was $2203. When I applied the coupon codes you provided it came out to $1803. So that does favorably compare to the Sager @ $1778 (other than the 6.25% sales tax I save with Sager).

I thought I had searched for those coupons, obviously not well enough!

Thanks again!

 

Just an FYI, I had an HP DV6 which shares the same mouse pad and buttons as the Envy line. The buttons were without a doubt the hardest mouse buttons to push that I've ever used. I actually gave up trying to push them after the first day and just doubled tapped the mouse pad and used the keyboard key for right click.

I've since returned the HP and replaced it with an 8130 and the buttons are not a problem to click at all.

 

Ha, the double tap dance. Yeah, I found myself doing that almost immediately with the NP5170 as an alternative to using the mouse buttons. I've never had to do that before with any laptop. I wonder if only certain Sager models/designs are like that? Maybe the stiff buttons are some new kind of lame trend which will hopefully be short lived.

As far as the HP envy I've never really considered them after reading all the negative reviews along with our own experience with an HP notebook we had. The only HP that seems to get good reviews is their top of the line elitebooks. But their priced really high. Their optional DreamColor screen looks pretty awesome (for a very steep price).

I'm pretty happy with my current Dell Inspiron overall. Its just time for an upgrade. And the new XPS seems to be the best bang for the buck for me right now.

Derek

 

Here is an extensive review by notebookcheck arriving at much the same conclusions I did: Review Schenker XMG A701 Advanced (SSD) Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

The Schenker XMG A701 is the Clevo W170HN sold in Germany. The only significant difference is the low end screen reviewed.

Derek

 

Thanks for making this thread, Derek. While your opinions didn't dissuade me from buying the 5170, it did encourage me to broaden my criteria. I was pretty zeroed in on the 5170, then realized I really would like the best screen over an extra 2" of screen size. So then the 5160 was my primary focus. Then I found out there were more options when it came to 15" screens and found out about the XPS 15's upgraded screen. So... I ended up ordering a XPS 15 with the 95% screen last night for about $180 less than the 5160 if they are configured exactly the same. I went with the lower video card since I don't game that much on my pc (I have consoles galore for that ) and that made the price difference $280!

I think I would have been perfectly happy with either the 5170 or 5160, but the cost ratio was just too much not to go with Dell. Plus I still get the one of the best screens available, though I would have preferred matte. But that's a minor gripe, I've had a glossy screen for 4 years and it hasn't bothered me.

You'll have to let us know what you think of the XPS 17's screen compared to the upgraded one you had for the 5170. 90% to 72% sounds like a lot, but it seems like you'll be much happier with the Dell. Especially since Notebook Check really likes the track pad on the XPS 15, which I assume is quite similar to the XPS 17. I was just curious, since your 5170 configuration would have been the one I'd get, had I went with Sager.

 

Glad to help out McGooble. Looks like you got a great deal.

One of the hardest things in buying gear online in today's digital age is lack of information on newer products. So I always like to hear both sides of the story when at all possible. Sometimes all you hear is the rosey side of things which makes decision making harder.

Derek

 

some of these issues are design philosophy related and not build quality issues.

dead pixel, it happens.