Sager NP5796 -- missed keypresses

Hello,
Just recently received my Sager notebook, and am having keyboard issues (missed keypresses). The reason I'm posting, is I'm looking to see if this is common on the notebook as I can't seem to find any other reports from this specific model.

The problem is whenever I type on the notebook, the keyboard some of the times works, and others doesn't. Sometime I can type an entire page of text without error, and others every single word will be missing 1-2 characters. It's not an issue of not applying sufficient pressure to the keyboard, and I can even excessively slow type and have it occur (where I know for a fact that I've hit the key, yet nothing happens .. every key on the keyboard can randomly skip). Needless to say, this isn't so simple as just hitting a key twice or correcting yourself, as it's often very hard to near impossible to correctly enter passwords.

Re-seating the keyboard was the first thing I tried, yet to no luck and the problem persisted.

Have tried removing the Synaptic touchpad drivers, as I found suggested in prior threads for a different model Sager notebook. This does seem to reduce the problem, but it doesn't eliminate it. Tried also increasing and decreasing the mouse polling rate, decreasing and increasing the mouse buffer, and increasing the keyboard buffer. No combination of anything seems to completely rid the key-misses.

The current KBC bios I'm running is version 1.00.03Sa. I've wrote Sager and have asked if any newer bios exists, and or if this was a known problem or if a workaround exists. I have yet to receive a response.

Far as tested OS's. I have witnessed the keyboard problems in SuSE 10.1, 2003x64, and Vista64 business.

Anyone out there with the same problem? Should I consider my laptop DOA and request an RMA?

 

isn't the newest BIOS 1.00.07?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=280517


I'm having a keyboard problem, maybe this might help?

 

Unfortunately there's not any visible flexing or defect that I can see in the keyboard. Just the random missing of keys.

I did try removing the keyboard completely, reconnecting the ribbon, and re-seating it though. Did this a few times to no effect before I started messing with the drivers and multiple OS's.

 

I am not sure on this.. I've been waiting for a reply from Sager for a few days and haven't been able to find a bios list for the notebook. To my understanding from reading the forums they won't give you a new bios without contacting them.

 

here's 1.00.07sh KBC: http://64.208.175.44/ftp/misc/579ec07sh.exe

 

And to make sure, this supports the Sager 5796 -- M570TU?

 

I believe so, we have the same keyboard.

 

Unfortunately if I were to flash this and brick my system, a flash without Sager on the phone likely would void the warranty right?

Probably best that I wait till their hours on monday and give a call, unless others have already done so and reflashed their 570TU's .. I'd expect that they wouldn't give ancient firmware with known problems on a modern laptop.. However, I will mention this version and ask if it's compatible.

Your Sager model had issues with the older KBC versions right? Missed presses that is. If our versions have the same controller that's somewhat comforting that it may be resolvable with software.

 

Contact sager for the bios, there is no guarantee the same bios will work with the 5796 and the 5793.

 

Idle temp 43-45c on the HDD with an ambient temp of 22.2c.
HD -- ST9320421AS, 320gig 7200 RPM

Reading taken from HDTune under Win2k3x64.

Now assuming you're using the NP5796, do you have problems with the keyboard missing keypresses as well? If no, might I ask what KBC firmware you're running?

Load temp coming up soon...

Under constant sequential transfer, I can get the disk upto 49c. Doesn't go far beyond that. HDTune gets the drive to around 45c only. I have attached the HDTune bench if you're curious on disk performance.

Note that this isn't full load I tested, IE the machine running hot as well. Just constant disk access.

 

My Sager NP5796 des mis key presses every so oft. Usually about once every 8 words. buta ctualy, as you can see it is hapening a lot right now. lol. this is not fake this i real

Edit: I will contact Sager and see what they can tell me to do about it. But as you can see, it goes off and on. This editing of the post has had no problems with typing.

 

Good to know I'm not the only person this is happening to.. I have to correct my typing constantly as it happens horribly frequent.

Will probably have to attach an external keyboard until Sager gives me a solution. If when I call them on Monday they manage to help me, I'll post updates back here.

 

I noticed my keyboard was also randomly missing key presses when I typed rather quickly, but I was planning on using an external keyboard so it's no biggy. I would like to eventually solve the problem, though.

 

No dont. The keyboard firmware is different for the 5793. I asked sager about putting the 5793 firmware on the 5796 for more fan control and they said dont.

 

No intention to flash without the ok from Sager, yet I need to find some solution as my laptop is currently not usable. Can't enter passwords for login systems or type reliably.

Have you had the same problems? So far it's sounding like the problem is not my specific notebook.

 

Thank you for your results, MasterGohan.
I didn't notice missed keypresses so far. But than again i didn't write much on that keyboard yet (i am writing on my desktop now). I also didn't notice the flex, that some are talking about. :smile:

regarding temps.. When i turn on my notebook, disk temp goes from 26°C to 50°C in less than 5 minutes. That on clean install with only hotkey program in startup. Also indexing is disabled, so practically no disk activity. Ambient temp is 23°C.

Load temp is up to 60°C when installing office, or after disk check.

Also i don't like the image of a flame next to the reading....

CPU temp didn't go above 40°C so far. Only got to 40°C when testing computer performance (Experience index - didnt check disk temp at that time), but during normal work it is 26°C/27°C.

 

What does this Fan Control: Continuous / Automatic do in bios?

It seems to have an effect on the dropped keypresses...

 

I just bought a sager 5796 as well and i am seeing the same problem. it doesnt seem to be as bad as it doesnt bother me all that much but i am also having the problem. i just pray its software related and not hardware.

 

sounds like there are some unidentified bugs in new KBC. Sorry for my previous post.

 

This Fan Control option is really weird.. It seems that it influences the processor operation.

For example.. Whenever I have it set to automatic, I can load up SpeedSwitch XP, and when my performance profile is forced in Windows to maximal performance, the CPU goes upto max throttle constantly (IE, no power management stepping).

Now the interesting part.. Whenever I have it set to continuous, and I do the same as above, it's like the processor is always in a dynamic throttling state. IE, no matter the performance profile in Windows, processor clock throttles down as low as possible.

I don't understand why fan control would influence the processor powermanagement states. Am I missing something here?

 

My keyboard seems fine. Doesn't seem to be missing keys often. Maybe every 100 words or so. I type pretty decently fast. I also reformatted my computer so that might have helped. As i didn't install all the drivers on the cd, went ahead and looked for the most recent ones online.

 

i type fast too but sometimes it does it sometimes it doesnt. i dont understand which keys seem to be susceptible to it and which dont but this whole time i only missed one key. weird. i dont understand it at all. sounds like it might be hardware related since we all got the same keyboard bios right? i hope it just doesnt get any worse with time.

 

i find that sometimes the buttons like f11 and f10 don't work that well. but that could be me not pressing hard enough. for the most part it works fine. I am certain though that the fn+1 function works. I pressed them together and the fans jetted up really fast. very strange. this was done in silent mode and normal mode it honestly sounds like a vacuum. didn't know this beast could get so loud.

 

The keyboard problem seems to be pretty frequent...

 

Problems seem to be semi related to fan control, and I often catch the keyboard skipping during fan rev up / down..

Is there any way I can just fix the fan at a certain speed or prevent the fans from lowering speed?

I read through the manual and found the "Silent Mode" button to be the A key on the top bar.. When hitting it, I notice the fan speed changes ... however, there is no indication light. How do I know what mode I'm in or which I start in when booting the laptop? Does the Fan Control option of Continuous or Automatics correspond to the silent operation button, and if so, which is which?

Can't seem to find a description in the manual specifying what the bios option does.



If anyone has the NP5796 and is not experiencing missed keystrokes, can you please check at boottime what system bios / KBC version you're running?

If you're running KBC 1.00.03Sa, what OS & PS/2 port drivers you're using may also be of help.

 

no missed keystroke. Vista 64. Using all my USB ports. Like I said I reformatted the laptop as soon as I got it

 

It may be that you're using Vista 64. I reformatted as well and have mainly been using Windows 2003 x64 and SuSE 10.1.

 

I have M570TU, and i am not getting any missed keypresses. Not when i enable/disable silent mode, not when manually adjusting speed with fn+1, and not when fans are automatically changing speed. At least so far.

BIOS 1.00.02
KBC 1.00.03
Vista Business 64 Build 6001: Service Pack 1

But i have other problems, that are IMO much worse. Waiting for a reply from Cizmo...

 

Like what? You scare me

 

lol. yeah i opened notepad a few times and haven't found any problems whatsoever. I also did a complete refresh and have 64bit installed. Love the support that sager puts into the 64bit technology. I just want to figure out this fan stuff. Like didn't sager say they took out the fn+1 stuff? I can definitely create quite a wind storm in my room with that function.
Absolutely cool notebook though. Also running the nc2000 under it which I conveniently recieved on the same day as my notebook.

 

Like this:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=280892
Long story short.. It reboots randomly.
I think it is my HD overheating (up to 60°C when installing). CPU temps are still very low (around 30°C).
So far no other issues here When it works it works perfectly.

Edit: I just started it up (cold boot - was off for at least 2 hours) to check temps. It started, but rebooted (not really reboot, but more like reset. no shutdown procedure, or anything...) before it finished loading. Now I have Windows Boot Manager error again.
File: \Windows\system32\config\system
Status: 0xc000000f
Info: Windows failed to load because the system registry file is missing or corrupt.

Here comes another format...

 

Raise the back of the laptop , it`ll definitely lower the overall temps.

 

i already did. It is on two books. each on one side, so it has more than 5cm (~2 inches) of air between it and table.

This last reset was not because of temperatures, because it was cold boot... No idea what is causing it...

Please reply to my thread, so we wont spam all over this forum

 

On the drive temps, in a two hour copy of files from my other laptop the highest I got the HDD was 51c. (this is on a flat surface -- wood desk -- at 22.2c ambient temp)

Not certain, but temps do seem abnormally high for you.

 

According to producer my drives operational temp is up to 55°C, storage up to 60°C.
http://www3.toshiba.co.jp/storage/english/spec/hdd/mk1637gsx.htm

Yes, my above 60°C operational temp was to high... I hope it didn't cause permanent damage... But the fans were on full blast. Is this a defective drive, or are all toshiba 160Gb 5400 hot like this?

 

The problem is almost certainly related to the fan controls because the keyboard and fan controls run through the same IC/controller on the motherboard. It seems that, on certain systems, the fan controller causes the keyboard buffer to overflow (in really bad cases, on one or two of the 9262s, it got so bad that there were BIOS beeps being emitted). Installing the latest KBC firmware, and also increasing the size of the keyboard buffer in the registry seem to ameliorate the problem.

 

Ok, first of all , and no offence, but asking people to specifically answer to your thread seems rude. Everyone is throwing in sugestions, since this is not a tech lab. We don`t know your exact conditions and what is the problem.
But a possible sollution :
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=279024&page=2 From post #18 and down.

 

hm... you got it all wrong
I said i had no problems with my keyboard, but i have other problems.
That is why i asked you to reply to my thread, so this one would be about missed keypresses.
I didn't mean to be rude.

 

And the link I posted above discusses this exact issue.
Callidor has had problems in the past and so far, he noticed improvements.
Give it a try and let us know.

 

No, sager took out the Fn+3 mode which locks the fan at a constant rpm, medium mode.

 

Hi. Yes, I have experienced this problem as well with my 5793 and also with my previous m15x, with which the problem was so severe that i returned the machine. increasing the dataqueu size seemed to help a bit (i think), but did not completely solve the problem. I'm curious about the keyboard firmware update. how do i find out what version i have? and assuming i need to update...could i have sager tech support walk me through the process so as not to void any warranties or anything? thanks.

 

1.00.03Sa is the firmware that my NP5796 has (which has the problem). You can check the bios versions you have at the startup of your PC.

I am unsure what the procedure Sager has people do during a bios update is or if there's a bios that resolves the problem. I will be calling Sager on monday and will post back here if they're able to help me.

 

So is there a separate keyboard firmware thing, or is it just the BIOS that we're talking about? I went to my registry editor.

my BIOSVersion is SROSA001.86c

my SystemVersion is CLEVO:M570RU-1.00.08S

are these current for the 570ru?

 

Updating firmware is as easy as burning the image to a disk, rebooting and booting from that disk, follow instructions, reboot and tada.

 

The 5793 and 5796 use different bios and kbc/ec firmware so dont mix those two up.

 

Yep, although I can`t understand why. They`re basically the same laptop,with minor improvements and add`ons.

 

well..here's something that's weird...on the sager website, under driver downloads, there's this for the 5793

Firmware KBC/EC Firmware 1.00.07Sh 20-Mar-08

the date is from 2 months before i got my computer, but seems like a different version from what i have? what exactly is KBC/EC firmware anyway?

And as for flashing a bios..i've done it before, but i know atleast alienware considers your warranty void if you do it without step-by-step instructions over the phone.

 

Better call them then,and ask. But Sager is not as uptight as AW is.

 

Update:

Just got off the phone with Sager support. The latest KBC version is 1.00.03Sa.

There are no known issues with missed keypresses, according to the support rep. However, Windows XP64 and 2003x64 have NOT been tested with the NP5796 and are to be considered unsupported operating systems.

Everyone that's experiencing the problem with the NP5796, please list the OS's you've tested so I can compile a report to send Sager.

Also what you've tried (ie, does it persist with the standard Windows touchpad drivers or the touchpad shut off -- fn f1, etc).