Sager NP5796 -- missed keypresses

Uh, oh, Eleron911, looks like you've got some competition in the shake-up-Sager department!

But seriously, if this problem is limited to the x64 versions of XP, you'll probably have a harder time getting Sager to come around to fixing the problem than the members who got them to fix the fan yo-yoing did; however, don't let that dampen your drive - if that's the source of the problem, and enough afflicted folks get together and agitate in a reasonable manner (e.g., no demands for first-born ), you might convince them to make a change or two, particularly if you can provide them with system data - e.g., crash dumps and whatnot, that help to pinpoint the change that needs making.

 

Vista 64, no issues whatsoever.

 

my issues are on the 5793 - vista 64

 

Hi guys,

New here so quick intro (I know, prob wrong place but don't want to be rude ).

My name is Nathon, 20 years old, lived in Holland but am biligually raised and am trying to live in Koh Samui, Thailand for the past 8 months. I work on internet doing translations (Eng-Dutch if anyone needs one ), internet marketing, webdesign, and next week have an appointment with a company that is just starting here to be there IT guy (which will be awesome if I get it because they will pay my workvisa!!). OK sorry drifting of there Lets get down to business

I have the Sager 5790 with windows xp and have had the same problem with a few keys. But now things got worse...

2 weeks ago I spilled water over my laptop, it shut down with a spark and I was dead scared that it wouldnt wake up anymore.

Got the keyboard out, put the fan on full blast and didnt touch it for a few hours (most scary hours of my life).

Finally had the guts to put it on again and to my relief it was working same as before.

Week later suddenly buttons stopt working (the most irritating ones of course: num-0, numlock, num-, num+, num-enter, a few F's like F1, F5, ESC, left-shift, right-ctrl, right-alt, left down and up-arrow, del, ins) In a way I am lucky because as you see I can still type (so work) but gaming is a real pain (ESC!!!!!!!!! thank god that with Bioshock the P can also be used ).

I mailed them and they say they will pick it up and check it, but as I said I am in Thailand so not really an option.

I go to bangkok sometime next week so can prob buy new keyboard there, but was wondering if you guys might have some ideas... I have allready dis and reconnected it and have cleaned it.

If this is not the right thread to post this please tell me and I will make a new thread.

Thanks in advance guys and look forward to being part of your community.

Nathon

 

@ the OP:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=253461&highlight=Keyboard+problems+with+the+5791

I had the exact same problem.

 

Thanks for dredging up that thread again. There's one post in there that suggests an intriguing possibility. In Post #24 Theriko states that he had the problem originally, but that it went away over time, despite the fact that he didn't do any driver/firmware upgrades.

If this issue is limited to systems running _Vista, then this raises the possibility that what we're seeing is another unintended consequence of the new quality of service functionality MS built into _Vista. In a nutshell, _Vista was designed to give preference to the appearance that things are working over actual performance (if anyone wants me to, I'll dredge up the MS whitepaper that said precisely that); e.g., actual I/O throughput will be throttled just enough so that the CPU has enough time to keep updating the screen so that, for example, the mouse pointer will continue to wiggle around when you move the mouse. The underlying idea being that the typical Win user will invariably conclude that the system has frozen just because the pointer is no longer moving around, and will do a hard power-off, even though the real reason the screen froze is because the CPU is devoting all of its time to some heavy-duty I/O or other performance-related process.

However, to mitigate the negative effects of this, _Vista is also supposed to be designed to "learn" the behaviour of the user and to adjust its own behaviour accordingly (e.g., the prefetching functionality of Superfetch is also designed to dynamically alter the priority of what it prefetches).

As a result, since reading from the keyboard is one of the unseen I/O processes that _Vista may throttle down in order to have enough time to keep the screen regularly updated, when put together with the latency caused by having the fan control and the touchpad (as mentioned in the linked thread) run through the same controller, may result in the missed key-presses so many people are seeing. However, if it's true that reading the keyboard buffer is being deferred in favor of other processes, it may also be the case that, once you've used the system with the same _Vista installation for long enough, the self-correcting algorithms eventually catch up with your actual usage habits, and may reduce the degree to which reading the keyboard buffer gets deferred.

Unfortunately, I do not know at this point if it's possible to monitor this sort of behaviour by _Vista, or to gauge the changes over time as the installation gets "accustomed" to your usage habits. I believe that _Vista has a much more robust logging facility, and it may be possible to set up a custom log that would be able to measure the degree to which, say, reading the keyboard is being delayed (perhaps by recording the DPC latency on the KBC controller), and then keep a record of those readings over time so that a history can be built to measure the variation over time.

 

Crimson_Roses, thanks for bringing that up. Unfortunately I googled around and came up with your post prior and ultimately already tried that to no success. Also tried hitting fn f1 to shut off the touchpad on the NP5796 with the default Windows Drivers, which I presume would have a similar effect.

Oddly.. I did a system restore to the Vista64 installation provided by Sager (after having backed up my partitions). Low and behold, to my surprise the missed keypresses problem did NOT seem to exist! Never extensively tested their installation before repartitioning.

Now considering I already had a backup, I told my friend that maybe I should just run these Vista drivers in XP64... He didn't believe that it'd work, however considering that I already backed up my installations I had nothing to loose.. So I copied the files from the restore disk's Vista install, restored my partition of XP64, and manually copied in i8042prt.sys, kbdclass.sys, and mouclass.sys to the system32/drivers folder. Shut down the machine, fired it back up, and shockingly XP64 DID start.

Now the interesting part... After doing this I have not had ANY dropped keys, and this message was typed with the touchpad enabled. Fans work, keyboard works, all very odd and perhaps pure coincidence and a fluke. Going to restore my 2003x64 installation next and see if there's any problems in it...

Will keep you all informed.

If you want to give it a try, I have attached the Vista system files. However, do this at your own risk! I have no idea if there are any compatibility problems or if something else in the system won't function.

 

I don`t think Sager can do anything about this. I posted a few pages ago a link to a possible sollution provided by KillerNotebooks by increasing the buffer .
Callidor said it seemed to improve the keyboard performance...

 

That was a stroke of genius, my friend, a stroke of genius. If it holds up, make sure you post that result prominently, and maybe you can take credit for having cleared up this nagging keystroke problem.

 

Here's to making the issue go away

 

Sadly increasing the keyboard buffer in registry didn't seem to do anything for me. Then again, this was by just subjective view in watching my typing, so I'm uncertain. Ultimately put it back to 64 and couldn't tell the difference.

 

There was a limit to how much you should do it. Callidor went over that

 

Well..I'm not sure about that. I have mine set at double the default value right now cause the website which was linked to earlier advised against setting it much higher than that. I really can't say with any definitive certainty whether or not it's making a difference. (I feel like sometimes it seems better, other times it doesn't, and I don't want to say for sure that it's a fix when I may just be imagining the benefits)

Anyway, I had a few questions earlier in the thread which I'd like to re-ask cause they didn't get answered ^^;

1. What exactly is KBC/EC firmware and/or what is it responsible for?

2. My BIOSVersion is listed as SROSA001.86C. and my SystemVersion is listed as CLEVO:M570RU-1.00.08S Are these up to date for the 570ru?

3. On Sager's driver download page for the 570ru, the KBC/EC firmware version that is available for download is 1.00.07sh. It's from two months before I got my laptop. Is it older than what I have? Newer?

I basically just want to know if every firmware or BIOS version I have which may relate to this problem is up to date.

P.S. This whole post was typed on my integrated keyboard without any missed keys. It tends to do well in internet dialogue boxes such as message board areas...but struggles in FFXI chat for example. (Interestingly, it does better in LotRO chat, which is a much more graphically demanding game)

 

to make sure your keyboard and fan operate appropriately.

The latest Bios came with 5793 is 1.00.09, however, they are not up for download yet.

Eurocom has 1.00.08, but it does not support fan control.

 

You change your avatar too frequently, Nirvana >.> makes life confusing

EDIT so this isn't a completely useless post: thank you for the info lol.

 

actually found something interesting the only time that my keyboard skips is if i actually touch the touchpad by accident took awhile to figure this out but did anyway to disable touchpad cause i just use mouse

way i figured it out was by alternating two buttons with one hand and touched the touchpad with the other and ull see wat i mean

 

^^ Lol if your hand is touching the keypad then its moving it away from the typing area and ofc it will miss keypresse.

 

We received an e-mail today from Sager saying that removing the Synaptic touchpad drivers was their temporary solution for this problem. They also told us that they're working with the manufacturer on resolving the issue permanently and that we would have to be patient. The customer who called in for help told us that removing the driver from Device Manager and then removing the Synaptic software from Add/Remove Programs did work for him. That's not to say it will work for everyone, but I thought that was worth mentioning.

 

yup, the key was to remove it from both the device manager then the control panel as it did not work before both were removed

 

same thing that caused it on my m15x. why doesn't synaptics release a driver revision?

 

Because no one told them yet?

 

well..hopefully if sager is working to fix this, they're gonna hear about it. *optimistic* i'm hoping that sometime within the coming months we'll see some quick downloadable fix from either sager or synaptics. thanks for being vocal about this, peoples.

 

do the same thing with your mouse and it doesnt skip a key just do it in the address bar of ie

 

Sager just posted updated KBC firmware to fix this issue. It works perfectly for me, even in Linux!

 

I see a new ec firmware for the 5796, that doesn't help anyone with the 5793 though...

 

Interesting. First of all, I'm pissed that we don't have one for the 5793. It better be coming soon. Second, what's the nature of the installation? Does it need to be flashed off a disk? (I didnt bring any blanks with me to school ><) or is it just like a driver installation?

EDIT: I sent the following Email to Sager tech support.

"I see that there has been an EC firmware update posted for the NP5796 to fix the key skipping issue. I am wondering if this will work for my NP5793, which does have this issue. If not, when can we expect to see the same update made available for this model? Thank you.

-Callidor"


I'll keep you guys posted if/when they reply.

 

They send you a zipped .iso. Burn it and boot it, after a single prompt it flashes the KBC and tells you to power cycle.

 

bleh...I'm going to have to find a blank disk...also..i've only ever done that once before. would you mind PMing me more "noob-oriented" instructions? I have to use Nero to burn the image to the disk, right?

 

It really isnt that hard. Get a disk burning software and use the burn iso image onto cd feature or something similar to that. Then all you have to do is put it in the drive and restart from it and follow the instructions which is like pressing y 3 times. Then it will install it self and you will hear a very LOUD beep confirming that it is done.

 

Should I bother trying this with my 5793 using the 5796 update...or could that potentially be harmful?

 

The 5796 firmware will almost certainly brick your 5793.

 

I wouldn't do anything with it until you hear back from Sager - it'd be a shame to stuff up your system with a bad firmware.

Also, if they say it can't be used, keep in mind (as eleron911 and co. demonstrated) that Sager is more open to persuasion from persistent customers than most other OEMs are, so if they say "no" at first, be persistent and get them to code the appropriate firmware update for the 5793.

 

My M570TU is on day 5 problem free.

No temp/keyboard/fan issues to date.

 

pretty sucky of them to make the fix for the newer model and leave those of us who have been struggling with it since before that model even existed to fester in our agony. [/complaint]

 

I'm surprised they didn't release the 5793 fix at the same time.

 

Well Callidor it seems like the keyboard issue for the 5793 seemed like it was an isolated inicident for you. Not saying that they shouldn't help you because of that but it seemed like more 96 users had problems then 93 so maybe thats why they released the 96 one first.

 

I guess it was more prevalent with the 96, but there were definitely others besides me complaining about it before the 96 was even released. it doesn't seem like they want to answer my emails...i'll probably just keep nagging them until they at least have the courtesy to respond.

 

Ah. For the 96 it seemed like the majority of people with the issues with keyboard lag was related to the OS, the people with XP had the majority of the problems. For me with both the 93 and 96 i have had no problems using Vista. But i guess you get unlucky with the keyboard (Alienware, this) Hopefully they respond to your email. Calling them every day also helps

 

Just got off the phone with tech support, and it seems like they don't have any plans to make this upgrade compatible with the 93. Here is my latest email:

Hello,

Recently, an EC firmware update was released to fix the key skipping issue on the NP5796. I have this issue on my NP5793, and I know that a few others do as well. (I am an active member on a laptop discussion board). I sent emails to both [email protected] and [email protected], and did not receive responses from either. I was wondering if this update would ever be made available for the NP5793 so that those of us who have been dealing with the issue since before the NP5796 was even released may get help as well. After I did not receive any responses, I called technical support, and was told that I should send an email to this address and include my machine's serial number. It is ------------.

I would greatly appreciate any information on when we can expect to see this update made available for the NP5793. If there are no such plans in development, then I will gladly receive virtual signatures from many Sager users who believe that it should be. Above all else, I ask that you please please respond to this email to at least keep me informed with any information that is available. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Callidor

 

I'm gonna need you guys to back me up on that signatures claim!

 

Ok major update. After a long back and forth with sager, they just emailed me an ISO. i used nero and burned the image to a disk. now i need to know how exactly to boot off it, cause i don't think i did it right. i put it in the drive, and restarted the machine. i hit f2 to go into the BIOS settings. when i was there, i went over to the boot section, and saw that my optical drive was listed as higher priority than my HD, so i didnt do anything, exited bios, and the machine started up like normal.

then i rebooted again, with the disk still in the drive, and didn't do anything. it took longer than usual, but windows started like normal.

i rebooted one more time, and went into bios, again, didn't change anything, exited BIOS, and then windows did not start until i took the disk out of the drive. what am i supposed to do?

 

You're doing the right things, but it sounds like the .iso they sent is bad. Are you sure it wasn't a zipped .iso? I ask because that's what they sent me. Toggle off your "hide file extensions" setting to make sure it's not something like foo.iso.zip.

If it's really a plain .iso, try changing the extension on the file to .zip and see if an unzipping program will open it. If it fails, it probably is really a .iso (and a bad one at that), if not it was a .zip and extracting the .iso from within should get you going.

 

yeah, they did send me a zipped folder, which i extracted. i burned the image from the unzipped directory. here's a quick update. when i just let the computer boot up without any interference when the disk is in the drive it does some weird things. after the option to go into the BIOS options, it gives me a black screen with a blinking underscore cursor. that stays for a minute, then fades to black, then windows launches as usual.

i saw this happen, so i went to "computer" to check out the disk. it read it as blank. i tried to reburn the image, and nero let me. now windows cant seem to explore the disk. should it be able to? ugh this is so annoying.

 

You may not be able to browse the contents of the disk - the files on it may be embedded entirely inside the boot image (an emulated floppy disk). You may have inadvertently created a multisession disk; you don't want this. See if you can set nero up to "close" or "fixate" the disk (I don't use nero so I'm not sure exactly what they call that option). Use a fresh CD-R or fully erased CD-RW.

 

(Refer to my other thread boot from ISO disk for details)

problem is completely fixed! If you are a 5793 user with this problem, get in touch with me via PM and I will get the ISO to you. and now i will stop with the double posting.