Sager NP8130 for Video & Music Production?

I posted the below in the "What computer should I buy" forum, but didn't get a response. Considering that I'm really interested in the Sager np8130, perhaps this is a better forum for my ultimate question (see first two paragraphs below).

Thanks for any help.

Dan
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Below are the answers to the questions required for the thread, however; I think I know the laptop I want (Sager NP8130), I'm more curious as to how it will run given the programs I may be using. Obviously it will "run" them, but I want it to run well, I don't want to feel like there's a lot of lag or I'm waiting around a lot.

I'm anticipating using Ableton Live for music production and Adobe CS5 for video production, along with some gaming now an then. I'm not concerned about battery life as I'll generally be around an outlet.

1) What is your budget?
1500

2) What size notebook would you prefer?

d. Mainstream; 15" - 16" screen

3) Where will you buying this notebook? You can select the flag of your country as an indicator.

US

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?

Not really. Support is important though.

5) Would you consider laptops that are refurbished/redistributed?

No

6) What are the primary tasks will you be performing with this notebook?

Ableton Live, Adobe CS5 Production

7) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places, leaving it on your desk or both?

Generally at the desk.

8) Will you be playing games on your notebook? If so, please state which games or types of games?

The occasional game, would be nice if it could play the latest.

9) How many hours of battery life do you need?

1-2 hours.

10) Would you prefer to see the notebooks you're considering before purchasing it or buying a notebook on-line without seeing it is OK?

Online without seeing is ok.

11) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista or Windows 7), Mac OS, Linux, etc.

Windows 7

Screen Specifics

12) From the choices below, what screen resolution(s) would you prefer? Keep in mind screen size in conjunction with resolution will play a large role in overall viewing comfort level. Everyone is different. Some like really small text, while others like their text big and easy to read. If you are unsure of what to purchase, we would highly recommend you check some notebook screens before you buy to see what you like. You may also wish to take a look at the notebook screen guide for more information.

Nicer the better.

13) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non-glossy screen?

Glossy is fine.

Build Quality and Design

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?

Not so much. Don't like flashy Alienware type though

15) When are you buying this laptop?

2 months-ish

16) How long do you want this laptop to last?

4 years

Notebook Components

17) How much hard drive space do you need; 80GB to 640GB? Do you want a SSD drive?

SSD not necessary. ~500gb

18) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?

Yes. Blu-ray might be nice with hd display, but that's a luxury I can do without.

Thanks all. You are very generous to give your time to help people with what might be complicated for many.

 

The NP8130 I have pre-ordered will be used primarily for electronic music production (Deep House / Atmospheric D&B). The matte screen makes long hours of producing less of an eye strain compared to glossy.

You're gonna want to have 6GB of RAM. The other specs are superb for gaming/music/video.

If your intentions are to keep it for 4 years, make sure to upgrade the warranty to its max: 3 parts / 3 labour.

 

Thanks for info Voodooi. It looks like it now comes with the matte screen standard, and 8gb of ram (which I may upgrade further anyway). I'm honestly a little worried about a matte screen, but I've got an external monitor for games.

Good luck on your music. If you place any online I'd love to hear it.

Any other feedback welcome.

 

I think I tend to agree with Voodoo on this one. The matte screens tend to be a little more comfortable on the eyes after long hours. It still looks good on gaming but it is fun to be able to connect a larger external for the gaming aspect. With the way this build is on this machine, i definitely think you are looking in the right direction.

 

You should NOT buy NP8130 if you want to use it as DAW for music production, it is like throwing money over the window.
It has already been confirmed in the NP8130 owner lounge forum that it doesn't have the native Texas Instruments firewire chip. This will make you regret your purchase since although these firewire chips are just a few measly bucks, any laptop without them will have problems with DPC latency and audio streaming.
Other expensive laptops having audio streaming problems are M17x-R1, M860TU, while the very few ones having a TI Firewire chip with audio production capabilities are Clevo D901C, D900F (!?), x7200, some business HP models and most of the Apple laptops.
I would suggest you to go Apple if you do not want a bigger and more expensive DAW such as x7200. Would help talking with these guys; they may be a bit more expensive but you will not go wrong:
ADK Pro Audio offers Apple Workstations for: Nuendo, Pro Tools, Sequoia, Samplitude, Cubase SX, Sonar 3, Pro Audio components, Pro Audio hardware, Pro Audio software

Also, since it is confirmed that all current Clevo laptops have been forcefully stripped by their Express Card port, you do not have the "luxury" of adding an external Firewire adapter.

Below some thread pages addressing this issue:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...er-np8130-clevo-p151hm1-owners-lounge-52.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...er-np8130-clevo-p151hm1-owners-lounge-60.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...er-np8130-clevo-p151hm1-owners-lounge-61.html

 

Doesn't the notebook already have a Firewire port?

 

It is not the Firewire port that matters, it is the internal Firewire chip that it is integrated into the PCI-Express to PCI bridge (see your laptop schematics) in order to support legacy protocol(s).
http://www.adkproaudio.com/pci-e.cfm

This PCI-Express to PCI bridge becomes vulnerable to issues related to DPC latency, which is why devices downstream Southbridge that share the same ports interfere with each other. For example, if I remember correctly Dell had to recall all M17x-R1 motherboards because of DPC problems.

Even connecting your audio gear through your (now dying protocol) Express Card using a native Texas Instruments chip may not always help if the PCI-Express protocol is not properly implemented by the laptop ODM.
http://www.gearz.com/board/music-computers/417779-isnt-ti-chipset-expresscard-supposed-answer.html

Try following Scott's (ADK) posts on the audio pro threads.
http://www.gearz.com/board/music-computers/147626-laptop-24-96-low-latency-recording.html
RME User Forum / ExpressCard FireWire T.I. Issue with Montevina Laptop
KVR: Firewire Expresscard with TI chipset

 

Hey mmarchid, thanks for the info.

I don't want to go the Apple route, and the specs on the adkproaudio.com laptops don't have me excited (also use it for gaming, video, photoshop). Is there a way to tell what laptops have this chip, or have it missing?

Also, and maybe more importantly, is this only affected if you are using Firewire? If I end up using USB 3, am I ok?

Your posts are helpful, if not a bit over my head

Brett&XoticPC - I purchased my last laptop from XoticPC and have been really happy with it (ASUS), but it's time for something with more punch for the more demanding tasks. Can you recommend a laptop(s) that you have in stock which do not have the limitation identified by mmarchid?

Thanks all (again)!

Dan

 

USB 3.0 is downstream the PCI-Express to PCI bridge and its firewire chip, therefore it will inherit its problems. Same things happened even for the (better) Express Card port when the firewire controller was not good.

The ADK higher end laptops are: W860CU, W870CU and D900F (the only one with an internal TI firewire), all recently discontinued by almost everybody.
W860CU with i7-740QM and 460M GTX starts at 1833$ with the express card firewire adapter (absent from NP8130):
Amazon.com: Firewire 2-PORT Expresscard: Electronics

ADK laptops are more expensive (see Eurocom configurator) but they mention using a custom BIOS, audio tuning up and benchmarking their builds which could be hassle free. For less money you could configure and negotiate something similar with other resellers that are still selling this system.

These reviews show that W860CU doesn't have apparent DPC latency issues:
Review Deviltech Devil 9700 DTX (W860CU) Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews
Sager NP8690 (Clevo W860CU) Review and Benchmarks! - Page 3 - XOTICPC Forums

 

Thanks mmarchid for the further info.

A couple more questions. It seems like the issue is associated with fireware, usb, express cards, so does it only affect audio coming in from a peripheral? So, audio generated in software not affected?

How can I find out if this will be an issue on other laptops I'm considering?

For example now I'm considering some ASUS laptops

I'll have to send you some $ via Paypal for all of your help.

Thanks,
Dan

 

I can only help with public info, there is no need to feel obligated.

One more thing is to wait for feedback on the DPC latency of the
new laptop models, but from what I have seen on some forums
people seem to have given up on trying to adapt off the shelves models
for audio recording. If you are serious about this you will need to
build your laptop with audio in mind.

 

Hi mmarchid,

Sorry for the repeated question, but I want to be clear so I know if my original potential laptop will work or not. Does the latency issue only affect recording audio from attached devices? So, if I'm only using it to create music in-software (like Ableton Live) would audio still be affected?

Or, what about HPs (Envy or Pavillion)?

Thanks again.
Dan

 

It will still affect but in a lesser degree, but you still need to find a laptop with low DPC latency even for playback.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/del...-inspiron-1525-real-time-media-streaming.html
KVR :: View topic - Is this notebook / laptop okay?

There is a site which lists all the components in the recent laptops, though I cannot find it anymore.
Envy could be better but you need to check. You may also need an express card port.
Usually the OEM's do not list their internal components because they use several suppliers
depending on the component availability and they cannot guarantee the component manufacturer.

W860CU has a (much) lesser CPU than the Sandy Bridge models but with an express card port,
the GPU being the limiting factor and the possibility of choosing as a video card HD6970 or 470M GTX
could be more future proof than NP8130, CPU aside.
You could also buy it with the cheapest CPU and replace it with a i7-940XM ES.

 

You can always just run linux instead. You can even use a realtime kernel for zero latency. This usually resolve the windows DPC latency issues which are caused by drivers and the windows OS in general, the hardware is only a small part of the equation.
It always worked great for me with WINE and ableton live. And JACK, which is really really awesome. And kluppe which is... well that depends on what kind of music your trying to play

I believe if you are doing CPU heavy work such as midi then the DPC latency will be more prominent. So it could be more of a problem than with recording, especially if you don't have a very strong CPU.

 

They don't have neither firewire nor express card ports.

The HP Envy 15 Is Not Everything It Needs To Be! Buyer Beware! I Would Stay Away From The HP ENVY 15!- Very Stupid Things!

 

Thanks for the further info, I really appreciate it.

Why would I need firewire or express card ports? Particularly if I will not be using any devices attached to them?

Thanks,
Dan

 

If you are just mixing songs and effects without needing any interface or input
device then you might not be that affected. Did you try the Ableton forums?

 

Yeah, you know, he probably goes with USB or integrated like everyone else...
Maybe we should have asked him that first.

 

The firewire ports are actually becoming more and more uncommon as manufacturers are starting to turn more into the USB 3.0 category. That is unfortunate, especially for video and audio production as a lot of the technology being used relies on those ports. As mmarchid mentioned, a majority of the machines that were being produced with that capability have been discontinued by the manufacturer. On the ASUS and Sager machines, you're even seeing the express slots go away as well, which creates a new headache since a lot of people would use those firewire cards that plug into the express slot. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave a lot of options on the table.

 

Didn't mean to send that yet! Stupid mouse...

As mmarchid mentioned, without needing to connect the external devices to the machine, those ports may not be necessary. If you are mixing and creating within software, the effect for most users is usually negligible. I have done my fair share of video editing with stock footage and didn't experience any issues on my machine without the firewire or express.

 

Thunderbolt (former Light Peak) implementation in the newly released MacPro's looks quite appealing. Hopefully, other manufacturers will use this shortly.

 

Thanks everybody for the help, I really appreciate it. Nice to have a place where you can ask questions and get these kind of responses.

Dan

 

It appears as though firewire is a "dead issue", as most of Apples inovations are and were. If you go back in history Apples all had SCSI disk drives, remember the Apple Newton, they never could get it to work. ThunderWhatever is not going to go anywhere. I believe USB 3 will become the new standard. Even eSATA is good. Apple continues to try to become a leader, with about 15% market share. I really can't stop laughing. I owned countless Macs and even worked with and for Apple dealers for over 10 years.

Please don't try to sell me on the virtues of Macintosh, I have heard them all. Meanwhile I edit my photos, videos and my music on a PC with a wide choice of software and 85% of the markplace to fall back on for advice.
Don't let anyone tell you that you need firewire, it is just beating a DEAD horse.

Back to your main issue, the Sager NP8130, it is my choice, I own one, and I use it professionally for both photo and video.