Sager NP8358F2-S (Clevo PB51DF2) mini review: RTX 2070 super, Intel 8 core....

If you have a Microcenter near you you can see their version of the both models side by side.

 

14.13” (w) x 10.15” (d) x 1.18” (h)
15.71” (w) x 10.83” (d) x 1.18” (h)

Gives a pretty good idea.

The 15.6" model is 17.39" diagonally for the entire chassis.
The 17.3" is 19.09". So it is definitely bigger, but not massively so.

 

And the 15.6" is basically a 14" chassis with smaller bezels, that's just the way it works. Previous gen laptops had huge bezels so these newer ones look smaller compared.

 

It's about the difference between the screen sizes to be fair.

 

I found a website that sells the laptop without charging sales tax for anyone not living in Nevada. https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8358f2-clevo-pb51df2/
Too bad the 15.6" version charges for thermal compound.
I already made my order with GentechPC so I don't think it's worth it to go through the hassle of canceling just to save 50 dollars, but I will keep that website in mind for later purchases.

The 17.3" version of this model does not charge for thermal grizzly which is nice though.

 

I ordered mine on May 23rd and got an email back from Gentechpc today that they are still waiting on Sager to ship Gentech the laptops so they can do the modifications. I think it's safe to say we've got quite a bit longer to wait.

 

The thing that sucks is that, according to what is said on their website, if I try to cancel my order they will charge me 6% of the total cost since I paid with a credit card...which would be a 95 dollar charge...
It would have been stupid not to pay with a credit card since with credit I have an addition 1 year extended warranty and it has better fraud protection.
But they penalize you for using credit if you try to get a refund even before the item has shipped.

 

It will be worth the wait.! I ordered 5/27 and got mine 6/9 with the free shipping from Sager.

I love the CPU, you can pull a ton of power with it and it never gets super hot like my 8750H did on my GE75. Also I seems to be able to get full turboboost speeds even with all 8 cores max'd. I'll need to do some longer tests to see how long that lasts. Seems like a well built system, my only complaint is I really can't get the fans how I want them. Quiet when surfing, and heavier loads or gaming I want them full blast. In between they tend to hunt changing speeds which drives me crazy.

My last couple MSI's I found a sweet spot where I could get it how I wanted it even with fans off, totally silent when just at the desktop. I know I can use max fan setting(and I do) but I just don't want to throttle like crazy if I forget, or just want auto-fans for whatever reason.

 

Did you undervolt your CPU?
What thermal paste did you use?

 

I had Sager put IC diamond on CPU & GPU.

Undervolt works great, even in Win 10 ver 2004. I'm currently at -.125 core and -.100 cache. I had a couple BSOD's earlier so I went back to these settings which appear totally stable. Not sure if it was the undervolt change I was trying or the fact I changed Throttlestop versions at that same time.

GPU overclock is sitting at +135/+800 currently through the Control center. It's kinda nice not using optimus, GFE, or afterburner, running a slimmer OS install and I didn't have to give up anything I wanted.

 

Hey All,

new to the forum, how are you liking the Sager NP8358F2-S (Clevo PB51DF2)? Considering picking it up.

How is the display? Colors, contrast, brightness, response time (any ghosting)? Seems to be the hardest thing to find info on with these Clevos.

How is the thermal performance out of the box?

Thanks!

 

What are the PL1 and PL2 limits on the CPU in these? I ordered mine on the 8th, still hasn't shipped, but I've seen very compelling deals elsewhere since placing the order, which have made me tempted to cancel the order, especially if its cpu performance is significantly lower than that found elsewhere.

I've seen some reviews show the 10875H scoring as low as 3000ish. That's atrocious, and unacceptably bad. My 9750H scores over 3000.

The Eluktronics model with it scores around 4300, which put it neck and neck with the 4th gen Ryzens. That's fantastic, but the eluktronics models are pricier.

The Maingear Element 2 however is not pricier. It is $1,899.99 at microcenter, and people who bought it have posted cinebench scores of around 4000, and confirmed that the laptops PL1 and PL2 were set at 120 watts.

If the Sager scores similarly, great, but if it gets smoked by the Maingear Element 2, I'll likely opt to get the Element 2 instead.

 

I have the Sager version. I just ran CB20 and got a 4041, max cpu power was 115w. No idea how that compares but when I shopped it was the cheapest option (1599 base, as I configured it it was 1750) and it shipped the day after I placed the order.

 

Thanks. That seems about identical to the Element 2, it scored 4023. Which is fine for me.I was going to be happy with anything over 3800 or so, just didn't want to spend $2,000ish for something that was massively outperformed by other laptops with the same CPU.

Seems I got particularly unlucky with shipping delay though. I placed my order June 8th, hasn't been shopped yet, it says "Pending Shipment" on GenTech's site.

The long delay is mostly what resulted in me continuing to look around and second guess the purchase.

 

Must be nice! Haha just playing, I ordered mine on the June 10th 2020 and my order is still "processing." Supposedly Sager was going to have a shipment of the laptops out to GenTech on June 24th but I haven't called to check if that really happened or not.

 

I ordered one of the 17' sister models of this from Gentech on the 13th, and I'm still processing as well. We'll see how it ends up going I suppose.

 

You are probably already aware but here is the notebookreview thread for the 17 inch model. Maybe this will help pass the time until yours arrives.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/official-sager-np8378f2-clevo-pb71df2-g.832907/

 

I hadn't realized it had a separate thread either. It was the 17" I ordered as well.

 

Does the PB51DF-2 really lack those features? The older 15" PB51EF-G I purchased in April 2019 from GenTechPC has all those features.

 

It has none of those features, no. It has a 144 hz display, but no G-Sync. No fingerprint reader, or n-key rollover. It also has 4 zone backlighting instead of per key. Fairly sure it has a type C port, but it isn't Thunderbolt speed.

PB71DF2-G is the one with all the features mentioned.

 

On the sager website it says they have the fingerprint reader and TB3. Looks like a single zone lit keyboard, and no G-Sync mentioned though.

The user manual mentions G-Sync with capable displays, so maybe the panel used just doesn't support it?

Honestly, I don't even really care about G-Sync specifically, as long as it can still switch to discrete mode. Was about to pull the trigger on one of these for my wife since she likes my PB51EF-G, but I may need to wait till some of this gets cleared up. Or just get the 17".

 

From what I can see Sager doesn't have the model listed at all.

https://www.gentechpc.com/product-p/sager-np8358f2-s.htm

NP8358F2-S

https://www.sagernotebook.com/15-Inch-to-16-Inch-Gaming-Laptops/

Not listed there.

NP8458F2 is listed there, and has a 4K OLED, and says it has the fingerprint reader, and TB3.

And when you compare:

https://www.gentechpc.com/product-p/sager-np8358f2-s.htm

with

https://www.gentechpc.com/product-p/sager-np8378f2-s.htm


Only the 17" explicitly says Thunderbolt, the 15" says "USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C", which I believe is slower than TB3.
The 15" doesn't mention G-Sync, or 7 ms response time, or fingerprint reader, or n-key rollover. It also looks to have single-zone backlighting (thought it was 4 from memory, was mistaken), and inferior audio quality (no mention of sub-woofer).

Honestly though, the 15.6" is like $400 cheaper. It lacking all the bells and whistles of the 17" model shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

It's not in the 15" dropdown, it's in the summer savings dropdown menu instead. As for it being $400 cheaper than the 17", the price it's at is only marginally cheaper than the EF-G was at launch. I only paid something like $1490 or so for mine with no drives. This says it has TB3, but no mention of G-sync except for in the manual. Single zone keyboard.

https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP8358F2-S.html

EDIT: It does have the MUX switch, so can switch to discrete mode (says so in the specs page). The panel must just not support G-Sync.

 

Oh, that's weird. Showing there seems fine, but IMO in the 15" dropdown EVERY 15" model should be listed.

 

Which thermal upgrades did you decide to go with? I'm looking at getting this model and thinking about getting the GC gelid extreme on both cpu and gpu w/ the fujipoli thermal pads.

 

Curious. When and from where did you pick up your PB51EF-G?

 

The 1080P 15.6" version does not have TB3. You only get that if you buy the version with the 4k panel.

 

I got it from LPC-Digital as soon as the EF-G launched last year. I should have got it from Gentech instead for the free repaste and maybe slightly cheaper, and LPC's customer service isn't the most responsive. Ordering the next one through Gentech.

 

Well if it makes you feel better you probably got a better deal; unless you didn't get thermal upgrades of course. I purchased my PB51EF-G for $1689 back in April 2019 from GenTechPC. That was with no OS or storage drives, just 16 GB (8x2) of RAM. I will say it's a fantastic machine though, money well spent.

 

I just scored 4211 on my first run, no undervolting or tweaking done yet.

That's with Kryonaut and Fujipoly thermal pads, from GenTech.

 

How high of a overclock was this?

I've been able to break 24k, but not 25k.

EDIT: Nevermind, got a lot closer.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/48364569?

I think you're just a bit luckier than me when it comes to silicon lottery. That or you are using a cooler of some variety, as that's the score I got without any external fans etc.

EDIT: Or not:

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/48418874?

For some reason my combined test was garbage, but the rest were good.

 

So I've been using the SAGER NP9877 (CLEVO P870TM-G) with 8700k and GTX1080 up until now and it may or not be broken due to a screen fault.

Would this SAGER NP8358F2-S (CLEVO PB51DF2) be a worthy replacement or should I try to fix my current machine?

 

It depends what you mean by worthy replacement.

Would it offer superior performance to your machine? Yes.

Would it be a big enough upgrade to be worth the cost? That's...harder to decide.

But yes, both this laptops CPU, and GPU, are superior to those you mentioned. i7-10875H outperforms a i7-8700K, i7-9700K, and a i9-9900t in most, if not all, tasks.

My 2070 Super has also outscored 96% of all 2070 desktop's on firestrike, and outscored 44% of desktop 2070 super's. So, it's very powerful. Techpowerup's GPU ranking suggests a 2070 super mobile is on par with a desktop 2060. It might be in some laptops, it sure as hell isn't in this one.

As an aside, this is almost definitely THE best performance of any 2070 Super laptop. I have the highest Firestrike score of the 500 or so runs on the benchmark. The second highest score is Hodge, we are the only two people with scores over 25,000 on the graphics portion.

 

How are you guys getting such high physics scores?! Mine (8458, the 4k screen one) is more than 2000 points behind on physics.

And even though I got kryonaut, my GPU temps are more than 20 degrees higher... I'm starting to think something's wrong.

 

I overclocked GPU, and undervolted CPU. That's basically all I've done. Might have just gotten very lucky with the silicon lottery. My best Cinebench 20 score has been 4411.

EDIT: I also turned on discrete mode so I could use G-Sync.

 

Depends on the cost to fix really.

 

Anyone know how to stop from power limiting in throttlestop?
If I set the core at -89 then it power limits and drops clock speed but if I have it lower it doesn't.
Edit: never mind under memory I checked the box for disable and lock power limits. Then unchecked turbo boos short power max and then raised max watt to 100.
Going to see how big an undervolt I can get stable.

Edit 2: I tried Prime95 blend test and notice it lowers the max all core clock to around 3.5ghz even with no undervolting unlike the 4.2ghz I get on throttlestop bench.....not sure why.

Also on blendtest I get a stutter every few minutes that lasts a few seconds when undervolting.
Don't notice any stuttering in games or throttlestop bench just with blend test.

Edit 3: lower core offset below 90 doesn't cause stuttering. Not sure if I should care since it only happens in prime95 blender test.

 

Prime95 blend is a worst case.

 

I also noticed the CPU not being able to hold 4.2ghz when gaming. Temps were in the 60s so it wasn't that.
Devil May Cry 5 keeps is around 4.1-4.2 but Monster Hunter World drops it to 3.6-3.7.

But that seems to be down to the closer the GPU get to 100% usage the more power it uses so it drops the CPU power.
CPU wattage was only at 34w while playing Monster Hunter World.

Edit: weird I tried Firestrike which pretty must maxes my GPU out yet the CPU was able to hold 4/2ghz and go above that.
Not sure why the CPU clock drops in Monster Hunter World and not Firestrike when both are hitting the GPU hard.

 

I've been trying to install ubuntu but the keyboard doesn't work. Anyone have a solution?

 

Anyone else notice high PCH temps when gaming?
After an hour of gaming I checked my PCH temp and it got up to 87C (CPU and GPU were low 70s) normally when not doing anything the PCH hangs in the 60s.
I've heard many stories of people having their laptops die due to overheating PCH after doing a lot of gaming over a years time.
Low 80s wouldn't worry me as much but mine was nearing 90c.
In my opinion all PCH should have a heatsink. I've seen people mod their laptops with one and it drops gaming temps by 20 or more degrees.
Also noticed the NVME drive is sitting around 50c and at one point it was recorded to hit 61C.
I might stick a heatsink on the NVME if there is space for it, I doubt it already has one.

edit: Just noticed the older version of this Sager laptop (NP8358F2) has one of the heat pipes going over the PCH while the NP8358F2-S does not. I wonder if the older version had high PCH temps.

 

I let Monster Hunter World run for a while and here is the max it climbed to.
So far Monster Hunter World is the only game I had power limit throttle the CPU down to 3.7-3.8ghz.
Seems to be one of the more demanding games to run (CPU and GPU) especially while trying to getting higher fps so I thought it made a good gaming scenario test.

 

Needed that second vrm pipe and if you have two of those hovering over the PCH that is going to help bake it.

 

Thinking of applying a thermal pad to the PCH. Also wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a NVME heatsink that will fit in this laptop. Noticed my NVME getting over 60C.

 

Where did you order from? I wonder if the GenTech thermal pad upgrade covers this...

 

I purchased from Gentech. I haven't opened the laptop yet since I didn't want to bother with the annoyance of removing the keyboard to get to the last screw to open the bottom.
I figure they did apply thermal pads to the other components that are under the heatsink. The CPU and GPU temps are great so I figured they applied the diamond paste I asked for. And they also removed the Sager logo that I requested.
I doubt they applied any cooling to the PCH since it is reaching 84C in an air conditioned room. I saw it reach 87C at one time when the room was a little warmer. A simple thermal pad and thin heatsink plate should drop temps to the 70s at least. A larger finned heatsink would be better but I think one of the heatpipes is too close.

 

Crudely measuring the PCH die it is around 9-10mm long by 6-7mm wide give or take.
I am thinking about getting a gpu ram heatsink kit and using one of those.
https://www.amazon.com/Jonsnowo-Cop...ywords=heatsink+pc&qid=1594382745&s=pc&sr=1-7

It's a little on the large size but the height should be low enough to fit in the chassis.
The NVME stick has a thermal pad on it but it still gets a bit toasty with nothing to dissipate the heat to.
I want to get a thin plate such as in the link below.
https://www.amazon.com/Heatsink-Copper-Copper，-Silicone-Thermal/dp/B07QNRP9HK

 

I was going to use a copper heatsink for my chipset but decided against it after thinking on it.
I don't want to use thermal double sided tape and risk the heatsink eventually coming loose and short circuiting the board and I don't want to use thermal adhesive as that is a permanent application and will most likely void my warranty.
Only option I seem to have is to try some thermal pad which probably wouldn't help much since there is nothing to dissipate the heat to.
Although I noticed Gentech did put a fuji poly thermal pad on my NVME stick so it must do something...

 

I ran this benchmark stress test with the same programs running in this video.


Here are my results.
I am interested in what other people get.

 

Is it normal to be unable to adjust screen brightness when in discrete mode? Not tried MS Hybrid mode to see if that is the culprit, but it seems weird that it seems to be locked to max brightness, and can't either lower it or activate night mode.