Sager NP8660 Initial Impressions

I recently received a Sager NP8660 for review, and here's my initial impressions. My config consists of a WSXGA+ glossy screen, P9500 processor, 9800M-GT 512MB video card, and a 320GB 7200RPM hard drive (Seagate).

The laptop is extremely solid and looks high-end. The look is understated and squared off. The glossy WSXGA+ screen is quite nice and has good contrast and brightness. The keyboard has no flex and has shallow but decent tactile feedback. The touchpad is small but usable.

Regarding the temperatures that many seem to be concerned over - based on what I have seen, there is nothing to get alarmed over. Let's spend some time on this . . .

Testing conditions - 75*F room, tile countertop surface (holds heat, it is not good at dissipating heat). Please see the attached screenshot for temperature readings.

Hard Drive Temperatures:
Note that the 320GB 7200RPM Seagate hard drive is rated for 60*C, not 55*C like most 2.5-inch hard drives. In my testing, I found the drive idles at 50 - 52*C, and tops out at around 61*C. These temperatures are NOT dangerous.
The hard drive could definitely have improved cooling though. If you're concerned about long-term problems . . . don't be. Unless you are transferring lots of data over extended periods of time, the hard drive is not going to get over 60*C. A low 50*C range idle temperature is perfectly acceptable.

The reason I say that you're not going to have any long-term problems due to hard drive temperatures is that my own Sager NP5320, which is about three years old and has a hot-running Samsung drive(53 - 55*C on average, and the drive is only rated for 55*C), has no problems to this date and is in perfect working order.

CPU:
No problems - the Core 2 Duo CPUs used in the NP8660 are rated for 105*C. Obviously mine are far below that.

Video card:
The NP8660 is so far one of the coolest-running gaming notebooks I have tested in some time. The max temperature of 75*C was recorded while running 3DMark06, which stresses the GPU extremely hard. Clevo did an excellent job with the video card's cooling system.

Other thoughts on this system:
-Feels lighter than it looks
-Looks very clean
-Is quiet; the fan noise at idle is basically non-existent, and while running benchmarks, it's audible but nowhere close to being bothersome like the NP5793.

Expect my full review to come in ~2 weeks from today. Please don't send me PMs asking about the system - it's not that I don't want to answer your questions (I do), the issue is simply that I am very busy right now. If you have any specific questions, leave them in a reply to this thread (please make them specific).

Edit: added one picture - see the last of the 15.4" Clevo gaming notebooks (Sager NP5320/M560A) vs. their new champion of the 15.4" gaming arena, the NP8660/M860TU:
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3977wy2.jpg

 

Nice impressions.

My HDDs also get to 60C at full usage (FYI: my Seagates are rated 60C)... I do not know why people are getting bent out of shape with a 55C HDD temp.

The GPU temps are definitely nice indeed.

My notebook and HDDs is 2+ years and strong.

 

Congratulations and lucky you that you got a good hard drive temperature, mine is not as fortunate... This is idel temperature...

 

Seriously dude, that temp is fine.

Since my HDDs is on RAID-1 is always around 55-59C.

With my Zalman ZM-NC2000, the temps are around 50-55C.

 

That HDD temperature doesn't concern me much, but what concerns me is the palm resting area really heat up my palm and my wrist. My wrist is sored from it... The palm resting area feels much hotter than just 59 degree...

 

So return it then, there won't be any update to fix sweaty palms......

 

Dude, how many time have I said that your palms should not be down during typing or gaming... thats just bad ergonomics.

The "palm rest" are is only to "rest" you palms when you are NOT typing/gaming.

Mine is warm (since the videocard is right underneath that area), but I never notice because I type properly and use the WASD properly/ergonomically.

Thats why I have no trace of palm/grease stains after 2.5 years of use.

 

Hi Chaz,

Great First Impression - Quickie Review. THANKS!

BTW, can you tell us Who is the "Screen Manufacturer" ... I believe the Freeware version of "PC Wizard" progrtam gives you that!

Thanks,
G!

 

bwhxeon, I never mentioned I have a sweaty palms did I? Please stop posting against me, this is like the third or fourth time you try to pick on me and I am getting tired of it.

 

your comment on hdd temps is relieving, yet now im kinda confused too.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3838935&postcount=2
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3839000&postcount=4
not true?

and i got the 320 5400rpm drive. are those rated at 60? should i be equally not worried bout my idle mid 50 temps for my 5400rpm drive?
just throwing these questions out there =)
would appreciate help since im on the tip of sending my machine back with the RMA i got just now =\

 

Nice but confusing review

thanks

 

So what is you want then??? You want someone to hold your hand so you can sulk over your purchase? If you think there is a problem with your laptop return it...there is no point in you continuing to complain about your hdd. It's either defective or thats that temps it will be operating at. Either way only your reseller can remedy the issue. Sorry I mentioned sweaty palms, but I don't know what else sored might mean, but I highly doubt using a warm palm rest is hurting you in any way at all.

 

I apologize. (back off everyone)

I just realized that your typing posture is correct. So your issue must be noticeable if your palms are not rested and you can still feel the heat.

I have to say my 88C degrees GPU under my non-rested left palm (during use or gaming) is noticeable, but not hot.

 

Lets get back on track.

I would try using other HDDs... some run cooler than others.

 

bwhxeon, what is the use of the forum if you can't share your experience with people about the laptop you just purchased and hopefully have somone to help you fix it? And of course I did contact my reseller, but so far they have not come up with a solution, that's why I hope somone else with computer technical background can help me with this. And I am an engineer, I know the basics of electronics and programming, though I think this problem is best handled by a technician with more experience about electronics than me. That is why I made my posts. bwhxeon I don't know why you feel so personal about what I have said.

 

Nothing personal about it, but your comments like maybe a bios update will fix the computer from sending to much power to the HDD?? There isn't going to be a bios update to fix the problem, it will be in the form of a case mod, which either the end user will be able to do or they will have to send it back in to their reseller. As I said already apart from you cutting holes in the back of the laptop cover or getting a notebook cooler there is nothing you can do. You aren't posting your experience your just fuming about your purchase.
As gophn said lets stay on track and this thread is on track with chaz's review and people who have questions. If you want to make post about how your laptop has problems then make a thread titled "youdontneedtoknow has laptop problems" and fume all you want.

 

I agree with you that what I said here does not fit under the thread description, so I am going to stop now.

 

I think there's more to it than just typing properly. You obviously don't have a cheetos habit.

OP: Nice review; thanks! I'm not very worried about HDD temps, even if the cooling isn't perfect around the hard drive... because I've owned systems where the GPU has repeatedly melted the motherboard (and overheated the hard drive etc), so, frankly, the fact that cpu and gpu run coolly in the system is a big plus. I also think that people are cramming too large + too fast hard drives in their M860TUs and not using any elevation or cooling, so that's another reason that I'm sort of discounting the hard drive temps.

 

Both of those comments are incorrect. This hard drive is rated for 60*C, not 55*C. Google your hard drive to find its maximum temperature.

It's an "LPL0000"

 

zomgbbq, ur verzion of teh laptop r s0 amAzin n all n haz kewl hdd temp! thx 4 teh shere!

Those temps did surprised me. What I can learn from here is that the temperature depends on the hard drive brand. That's a clean review that answer all of our concerns for now...for now.

 

No. I remember identical 320GB 7200rpm drives (Seagates?) from different people performing differently - one fairly high and one idling at 50ish.

 

Maybe you're right...so temperature totally random?

 

Since the hard drive is located at the bottom of the notebook, keep in mind that temperatures can vary depending on the ambient temperatures and the surface the notebook is resting on.

As I noted, my temperatures were recorded while the notebook was resting on a less-than-ideal tile surface, which holds heat and prohibits airflow.

 

I don't know; it's interesting and it's likely not drive related. Ambient temp, surface, elevation, cooling could be it (as mentioned above) or it may be an issue with thermal paste/heat sink contact/north bridge, like shyster (I think it was) said.

 

Nice "preview" but I'll wait for the complete review. After running some benchmarks, my hard drive reached 53C (Toshiba rated for 55c), but after playing Crysis for an hour or two it reached 61C. So Chaz, load up Crysis and then tell us what the temperature really is.

 

Since all laptops are the same (in theory) and the only known and confirmed variable is the hard drive brand... so maybe you are saying that some laptops were correctly manufactured and some not?

 

Nice pre-review as usual Chaz, looking forward to the complete story.
Now, since you did a nice review on the m15 a while back, will you be doing some sort of comparison on that too? I'm not so much interested in the benchmarks numbers (both should kick asses and 1-200 3dmark points more or less is just for kicks) but in terms of working, typing and normal laptop usage, screen quality and the works...

PS No m15 bashing please guys, I got one for the wifey a while back and its been a jewel among computers, working flawlessly eversince. Now I'm thinking of this clevo as a treat to myself .

 

Is the wife a l33t gamer?

Lucky wife.

Luckier you.

 

Well, in theory, yes; in practice, no, because each one is assembled in part by a different person (or by a different assembly line set-up), and those differences can introduce variations, some significant. In the 50s and 60s the lore about buying a new car was that you didn't buy one that was built on Monday or Friday, because if built on Monday there was too much risk that the workers were either hung-over from the weekend or too annoyed at being back at work, thereby making careless mistakes, and if built on Friday because the workers were focusing too much on getting off work and having the weekend free, thereby making careless mistakes.

That is, obviously, not particularly true today, although I do believe that there was some basis for the myth back in the 50s and 60s.

 

How the heck would you find out on what day your car was built?

 

Not really since even people with 5400rpm drives and 160gb are having heating worries (they all big babies)

 

Compare Chaz's temps to this one: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3846945&postcount=4. This is really confusing. There's like what, 2 guys assembling the hard drives? One is doing his job and the other one is retarded and drunk?

 

I am also going to think its the HDD brand/type.

I am trying to get a test unit to just test with HDDs.

Some HDDs definitely run hotter than others... so Sager (and other OEMs) must be aware to choose the cooler HDDs.

 

I was told that the brand of the hard drive is not the cause of high temperature as some Seagate runs around 60 while other runs around 50. Maybe I didn't read the serial carefully but that's what I was told.

Also, it would be interesting to see when the laptop was bought, as maybe Sager indeed changed their hard drive after the first batch (maybe )

 

I took a look and compared the 320gb 7000rpm hard drive datasheets (Hitachi WB seagate) and they all have about the same power consumption.

~<1W idle 2.1W - 2.5W load.

Sure different hard drives will run at different temperatures but there's no way that they can vary this much in temperature...

Here are the links if your interested in reading them:
Seagate: http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus_7200_3.pdf
WD: http://www.wdc.com/en/library/portable/2879-701275.pdf
Hitachi: http://www.wdc.com/en/library/portable/2879-701275.pdf

 

I am going to suggest:

all M860TU owners that have hot HDDs to pull the drive (or use HWmonitor) and see which brand (Seagate, Hitachi, Fujitsu, WD, etc..) and model it is

.... so that we can avoid those and forward the information to OEMs building the systems (like Sager).

We need to make a list of bad drives and maybe a list of good ones.

 

Just get HWMonitor... it shows you the brand and model of the hard drive.

 

thats a good idea.

I also would like to see the series through the first digits of the Serial #'s to see if its a particular batch.

 

Ergonomics or not, I have always typed with my palms rested, I won't stop either. I don't think it is good enough to say, "your not typing right, its your fault, move your hands!!!" - It's my machine, I'll place my hands where it feels comfortable.

 

but the palm stains are going to remain and ruin the finish... then its IMO, unsightly.

 

Not if you cover them with glad-wrap!

Which is, possibly, equally unsightly. But I don't care because I'll know that underneath the finish will be pristine.

 

Are there not clear plastic laminates that you can cut+ stick onto the aluminum (like cars) ?

 

Here is some uncut clear coat protection film, I use this stuff for my truck and dirt bike.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Uncu...004QQitemZ140216197431QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

 

It's anodized aluminum, right? How will a little bit of oil and sweat stain that? (not saying that it won't, but i sort of doubt it will)

 

My temps at idle are 58 and when runing under some load they get up to 65 degrees. I have the seagate 320G 7200rpm. I dont know these seem a little high even if it is rated for 60. I maybe wrong and i it wont hurt anything but i dont want the life of my HDD cut in half.

 

I just don't get how there is such a big difference between the laptops HDD temps.

 

big difference? I really want to hear some good number from Clevo, I wonder the HDD temperature was like that when they designed it.

 

Ya i would like to know that all so. Im not going to freak out right know because i just dont know to much about the HDD and what temps it suppose to have. I will just play it by ear and see how everything goes cas other then that i really like this laptop

 

you can also try www.invisibleshield.com