Sager NP9370 Audio Issues

Hi, new to the forums!

I'm disappointed with the sound quality of the NP9370. It sounds really shallow and cheap, so something must be wrong. I tried "Slow Down The Bass" by Bass Outlaws on my friend's cheap mainstream HP computer with Hesh 2.0's and it sounds so much richer and fuller like it should. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Help me out!

PS: I correctly installed the drivers. Realtek driver first, then the Sound Blaster MB2 software afterwards.

 

That's very weird, I've heard nothing but praise on the 9370 sound. Might honestly be bad luck and received a faulty controller. I'd check with your reseller and see if they can help you troubleshoot the cause.

 

I second Derek's recommendation. If not the audio chip, then it could be a component of the speaker itself, or the wiring.

 

I'm sorry it's been a while, but I received the laptop from xoticpc. I'm not trying to throw blame on them, but I've ran into too many problems with the NP9370 laptop. One of them being the sound quality issue. I had rattling noises coming out of the inside of the laptop which got fixed. Then I had to dig through Google to find the proper drivers from Intel for my SSHDs to accept Windows 7. After that I noticed my laptop was equipped with a faulty keyboard with one side that didn't illuminate properly, which fortunately got fixed. Now this sound problem, and who knows what else ... .

The sound is shallow, and has barely any bass. It is easily outperformed by the majority of computers out there equipped with some form of on-board sound.

 

That really shouldn't be the case. as ProStar and I said the audio is pretty good from this thing. I'd contact our 24/7 phone support if you haven't already and see if they can work through some quick troubleshooting steps. Also, have you gone into the sound properties and tried adjusting the audio levels? From the sound of it (no pun) it does sound like something must have stopped working correctly or set up incorrectly.

 

Setup your Audio-Settings, like discribed in this Thread:

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f297/p370em-notebooklautsprecher-optimal-einstellen-937517.html

Worked for me!

 

To be fair, sound reproduction quality is very relative to the listener, as well. This is why you have audiophiles that may swear up and down by a particular set of speakers (home audio, portable/earphones/headphones, etc.), while if you were to give a non audio enthusiast the chance to compare the same speakers to something considered comparable, they'd never tell the difference. The same can even be said about audio formats and their respective bit rates and people's assessment of their quality.

Hopefully, what you're experiencing is not some sort of hardware malfunction. But before you go so far as to surmise that, just make sure to explore every option in the [likely] event it is a misconfiguration.

 

I faced the same problem, when i got my P370EM.
But as i already sayed, it is just a missconfiguration, after that it sounds milewide better!

 

Thank you for understand where I'm coming from. I don't like low quality where it doesn't belong. If it's audio from a 1950's movie or song I totally understand and it adds to the song's nature. In this case any computer shouldn't sound so awkwardly shallow, and I'm pretty sure people would notice the problem if I showed them the sound that comes out of my NP9370. Derek I'll contact XPC if I can't find a solution through research, for if I find the problem and fix it myself I'll remember for maybe next time. Thanks though I'll keep it in mind.

Now, Forsaked thank you for your input and I'd be totally glad to go through that procedure but it's in German language and I need an account to view the photos. What should I do?

 

Ok, then follow my instructions, step by step:

1. install the Realtek Driver
2. install the Creative SB Software
3. go to Control Panel -> Realtek HD Audio-Manager -> Speakers -> Speaker Configuration -> choose 5.1 Speaker & close all
4. go to Control Panel -> Sound -> Speakers -> Settings -> Improvement -> choose Immediate Mode & Spacial Correction -> Settings -> choose Gauge and set all to +10 dB & close all
5. start THX TruStudio Pro -> choose the Arrow Down Symbol in the right upper corner -> Settings -> choose Installation Speaker & close
6. choose Crystalizer -> activate & set to 65
7. choose Speaker -> activate & choose Subwoofer Gain (+15 dB) & close all
8. Done

(It could be that some Options named different then i wrote here, i use a german Win7 so i translated my Option names.)

I hope this could help u guys to get better audio performance!

 

In all honesty this trick didn't work much for me. It somewhat "boosted" the bass, and while the bass boosting settings are on the fullest, the sound is still disgusting. Something has got to be wrong with my laptop, and this thing has become such a burden. I spent over $3K just to get a faulty laptop that has many issues, and this time with sound. Every computer I've used has had decent frequency response from the sound cards that they've been equipped with, even some old mainstream HP & Dell computers. The sound coming from this laptop sickens me. I would have totally understood if it was a no-name laptop for $200 off of eBay. Due to the many flaws this laptop has, I regret buying this laptop now.

If the sound was fine I wouldn't have made it such a big deal, but it is noticeably shallow. This is unacceptable on a $3K+ laptop.

 

I'm sorry that didn't end up working out! Go ahead and contact our support team on our 24/7 phone support line or submit an RMA request through our website "support" section. They'll help you out and facilitate the RMA if necessary.

 

This was the reason I opted for my current laptop, instead of the dual gpu one.
The DAC in 370EM is the same as in the old HM series laptops (ALC 892) which has a very low SNR ratio and sounds awfully shallow.
The closest thing that gets to this level of audio degradation was my old Asus EEEPC 702. Arguebly, it might have sounded better actually (with an AC'97 soundcard).

Well, if you value sound quality so much, opt for a MSI laptop.

 

Derek I guess I'll be calling XoticPC sometime soon. Hopefully the problem can be figured out and solved. Thank you for the heads up m8.

How did you figure out that the 370EM's have this DAC? I'm not questioning the validity of your comment because I believe you, but it'd be nice to have more information on this laptop. So, every 370EM/NP9370 sounds terrible?

Last question... Is there some way to change the 892's firmware to operate like a 889? It seems that the 889 performs much better SNR wise.

 

This dac is part of the motherboard on all the EM series (and the HM series).
When you open Realtek's Manager, you can see the driver version AND DAC type used.

Im not sure if you have a faulty machine that sounds terrible, OR if your hearing is like mine (we dislike tinny and muddy sound).
Both of these things may be true.

About flashing another firmware onto a DAC - that won't work.
Its manufactured to have its specifications and we cant change that.
Its like wanting to make a 4" home subwoofer perform like a professional JBL 18" 2000W long-throw sub.
Aint gonna happen.

Like I said in other threads - I prefer if Clevo makes the laptops with just a Stereo (or quadrophonic) sound card, but with a quality Burr-Brown DAC with like 124db SNR.
That would be nice.
Or maybe a small PCI-Express 1x mini slot for sound cards for their laptops (and people may choose between 7.1 home theater and a stereo high-end card).
That would be ideal.
But we all know thats never gonna happen, so.....

 

Ignore this, somehow it double posted.

 

Now I understand, and I'm glad you brought the problem's roots to light. So I guess the sound is just the way it should be. I may send it in for XoticPC and see if they can compare it to some of the 370EM's that they may have laying around. Bobman sorry, but I got another question.

What are some good external USB DACs that I can buy for around $100 (or less) that would help with the sound issue? Thanks!

 

We've heard very good things said about the Asus Xonar U3's over here for a USB solution that is relatively inexpensive.

 

Well, from personal experience, there are only a 2 Ive used (both are for DJ-ing and PA-Audio, but Ive used them at home).
They won't be the optimum choice for you, but I will name them anyway:
1.) Behringer Xenyx 302 USB (its a tiny mixer with 2-band EQ and medium sound quality output). Im using that with some PA equpment for sound on lectures and events.
2.) Hercules Deejay Trim 4&6 (this is a VERY VERY GOOD soundcard, again USB connectivity, a Wolfson 106db SNR DAC that has MAJOR power and crystal-clear sound).

I hear Creative have some portable USB soundcards, but I can't point out anything good, since I havent used them.
It was brought up a few times on these forums, there are some users with DACs who will give you the right advice on what brand and model to look for.

In any case - you need to be looking at something that can deliver at least a 98db SNR (around 105-120db would be ideal) and forget about multi-channel stuff if you want audio quality.

 

k0nane did some measurements on the analog channels of the NP170. The plots he obtained with RMAA show the ultimate flaw in Clevo's integrated audio in that model. I have no doubt the situation was the same if not worse for the HM series:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/688990-i-got-my-np9170-initial-impressions-more-within.html

If someone could run a similar analysis on the analog outputs of the 370, it would most likely show whether Clevo made any effort to ship a product that's not broken by design, or if similar ridiculous output impedance / frequency response issues remain a hallmark of these "premium"-"enthusiast"-class laptops.

Trust the numbers; Not that "some like it, some don't" BS!

 

Yep, all Clevo machines with above stereo DACs are affected by this.
Only the W series are sounding worthy of their money.

 

Look at this: RightMark Audio Analyzer test : Realtek HD ALC269 24.48
This ^ is the DAC in my laptop. Rated - Very Good.
Linear frequency response.
Good lows (bass).

Compare it with this: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...y-np9170-initial-impressions-more-within.html

 

Bob what if I get this USB audio solution? Would it fix my problem? (Will this disable all sound components in my lappy and control the DAC & sound card?

Musiland Monitor 03 US USB Sound Card 32bit 384kHz | eBay

If there's anything else like a USB stick that you know of that doesn't hook up to the laptop like that, and instead hooks up like this...
*****
USB Digital-Audio Converter
*****
... it'd be awesome. I don't want that Dragonfly junk though I want more than 24-bit/96kHz. Atleast something with 24-bit/192kHz (or better!) that costs anything around $100-$150.

 

All USB soundcards, that hook up "like a usb stick", are junk.
And unplugging the cable, without unplugging the USB card itself, will be a pain.
Inconvenient and you may also damage your USB port (the card will always tend to bend down on the port, cause its heavy).

You will need a "box" format audio card, these tend to actually have hardware inside of them, not just mere PCB's.
A very convenient thing about these external cards is that they often have dedicated volume knobs and chinch outs (along with stereo headphone outs).

To answer the first question - an external soundcard will completely bypass your onboard one.
You choose which one to use trough the sound settings in Windows.
You can also mix them both (using the laptop's built in microphone and using the USB card for playback).

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD Sound Card | Creative Labs Online Store
I have never used this one^. But its cheap and has good specs.

The one you saw at eBay should have better specs, though.
Some IMPORTANT things to consider when choosing your USB soundcard:
1.) Do you want it to have EAX effect support?
2.) Do you want an Equalizer along with the card software?
3.) Do you need 5.1 or 7.1 channel support?
4.) Do you want it to be USB-powered or with a dedicated PSU (this will affect mobility, as a dedicated PSU means you cant take it with you on the road).
5.) Do you REALLY need 24-bit/192kHz? Won't 24-bit/96kHz be enough?

With the Creative card, you get mobility (USB-powered), a good software suite (with EAX support, Equalizer, Crystalizer, blah-blah...), cheap price and acceptably good sound quality.
Its MILES better than any onboard audio card.

With a professional sound card, you get the most linear-sound (which is good, they reproduce the frequency bands correctly), SOLID drivers (you can record sound with any professional software), but it has its drawbacks.
They usually dont have any equalizer in their software.
They cost more.
They are bigger and heavier.
Sometimes they dont have a 3.5mm stereo output (instead, a 1/4" stereo jack for professional use).
No multi-channel support. None.

If you are not in the music production, dont buy a professional soundcard. They have more ins and outs than you will ever need. Cost more. And you really dont need that.
My advice - go with creative. Or ASUS Xonar.
Damn, my post is a wall of text again......

 

I pulled the trigger, and bought the X-Fi HD. You pulled out some really good points like EAX and all the other gaming goodness that some sound cards don't come equipped with. Why would all out audiophile soundcards need that stuff? I had forgotten about these things, so I did more research and concluded that the X-Fi HD is the best performer for both music and games for around $100. (Over $500 for Xonar Essence One, rly?)

 

You made a good decision!
For under 100$, this is the card that will sound and function best for most users.
How's the sound? Do you like it?

 

O.O my laptop is creating bass! I hear real bass! =D This X-Fi HD has great bass reproduction, and has an overall balanced tone. I wish it had a tiny bit more treble so highs could be a tiny clearer, but it's good the way it is.

I received it today, and the sound is great! I'm satisified with the audio quality, but I have a tiny more to discuss.

(1) Can this device be used to take control of all audio aspects on the laptop and record what is being played on the laptop to a sound file? I see that it is compatible to do so, but does it require the media suite that it includes?

(2) Can the X-Fi HD act as a sound card and play through the speakers that the laptop is equipped with?

(3) So the audio of the NP9370 I own is like all the other P370EMs (and its variants), which is weak and shallow?

That's all, and thank you so much for the help!

 

An interesting test you can make to confirm whether the analog line-in channels are compromized as well would be to patch the output of your X-Fi HD into the line-in of the laptop integrated audio. There might be two setups in the realtek driver that would allow to test this. 1) "pass-though" mode where the analog line-in is fed to the internal speaker drivers directly without any software processing (other than perphaps ADC-->DAC sampling if there is no internal "true" analog bypass). 2) You should be able to just setup the laptop to playback the line-in just like any other sources.

I doubt 2) will yeild any better results than what is experienced with the integrated audio, but perhaps option 1) might reveal that the internal speaker and amplifiers are not the limiting factor in audio quality...

 

1.) You wish to use the X-Fi card as a "virtual pre-amp" to make a recording, that sounds nice (with good bass), right?
This is possible, but not without a audio mixer.
If you have 2 PCs, then you can play the sound trough the X-Fi and record it using the stereo out, connected to the second PC's Line In.
Then you can do that recording.
Or, again, if you have an audio mixer, you can split the signal (one stereo signal goes to your speakers, the other goes into a recording device or another PC).

2.) Cant use the laptop speakers with the external soundcard. They sound crap anyways, so you'd always want headphones OR desktop speakers connected to it.
If you have big headphones, just connect them to the X-Fi and use them as laptop speakers, lol!

3.) Yes, weak and shallow was the sound that I had on my P150HM too. The DAC is the same as in P370EM.
All will sound the same.

Cheers

 

There should be no problem using the laptop speakers with the external sound card. The only thing required is a 3.5mm male-male audio patch cable that goes from the output of the USB sound card back into laptop's line-in jack.

It would indeed be sort of non-sensical to use for example Windows's Stereo Mix device to achieve that, as it goes through the same DAC, and perhpas even gets more crippled by the line-in ADC in the process.

However, looking at a block diagram of the ALC892 chipset for example, it looks like all the analog ports can be configured as input or outputs. There is an internal switch matrix that seems could provide an analog path say from the line-in ports to any other ports, such as the internal speakers. The question is whether the the Realtek driver software has sufficient flexibility to allow this internal internal routing capability to act as a pure "analog mixer" between an input and an output port without having to butcher the signal through an ADC/DAC chain.

Who knows... someone whose stranded in the jungle with their laptop and with no external speakers in sight, and who desperatetly needs to hear sound out of their laptop's internal speakers might be interested to look into these options as a last resort...

 

The speakers themselves sound like crap. No way will there be any improvement.
My mobile phone has better speakers (Sony Ericsson W995).
I have no idea how you can make the internal card receive analog signal AND not convert it to digital (then back to analog to the integrated class D amp for the laptop speakers).
Its virtually impossible.
Other than resoldering something.

 

Okay well my X-Fi HD USB came with a USB connector, and a male 3.5mm connector to two male RCA connectors. I hooked up the 3.5 to RCA connector from the line-out of the X-Fi HD to the line-in of the P370EM, and I tried messing with the settings in Control Panel>Audio but no luck. Any recommendations? This seems interesting to figure out. I wonder IF the speakers have potential.

 

They dont. Dont bother.
Their frequency response is bad.
No lows (the membrane cannot reproduce anything below 100hz).
The highs are muffled (anything above 12khz will be muddy).

Seriously, why bother with this? Use speakers or headphones!

 

What do you mean by "no luck"? It still sounds like crap? (as expected) or you don't hear anything?

Keep in mind:
- You now have two sound cards
- You have to tell windows (and perhaps individual programs) which sound card to use as output device for particular input circumstances.
- You also have to tell the Realtek driver (Realtek config panel) and X-Fi driver (X-Fi config panel) how to route sound streams.

First confirm you can you can hear audio from your line-in jack. If you can use an external audio source (sound system, mp3 player, game box, TV...) as source to your laptop line-in, then maybe disconnect your X-Fi so things don't get too confused.
The line-in configuration most likely has to be setup through Windows mixer (and Realtek panel):
Right-click "Windows" speaker icon > Recording Devices > ... then make sure you enable Realtek line-in device.
You also have to make sure that your Realtek line-in device is being played-back through your Realtek laptop internal speakers (as opposed to being fed to your X-Fi). Right-click on "Line-in" > Properties...

Then confirm that you get audio from your X-Fi line-out. Once this works, then connect the loop-back try a more involved setup.

So basically the setup would go something like this:

[Set X-Fi as windows's default playback device] and/or [set Sound producing application to playback through X-FI)] >
[X-Fi USB DAC/RCA line-out] >
[RCA---3.5mm patch cable] >
[Laptop Line-in jack (with Realtek control panel set to indeed take that jack as a "Line-in" input)] >
[Set Windows Recording device's > Realtek Line-in > Properties... to "listen to: Line-in from Realtek" + "playback through: Realtek / laptop speakers"]

 

b0b1man I agree with you for the most part, I really do. It kinda looks like a joke hooking up an external sound card to your own laptop just to play stuff out of the speakers (lol) for little to no improvement. I just want to experiment, and see if there's a possibility of this happening.

arg8 I'll try playing some clear bass music that punches hard on low frequencies out of my phone. I have an aux cable, so I'll use it between the line-out of my phone to the line-in of the laptop. One question though, how will I activate it in Windows? I've tried messing with Control Panel>Sound settings, but I've come to no avail.

PS: By no luck, I meant that there was no audio coming out in the end. Plus, when I had tried this "no luck" method, I had disabled everything with the former internal sound card. After that, I proceeded to work with the X-Fi HD.

 

There is an option to connect it to Line In and the setting "listen to this device" so it makes it sound trough the laptop speakers.
But this will happen only with the integrated sound card.

With the X-Fi, you will need headphones or speakers connected to the card itself.

 

Yeah there is no way to do a bypass unfortunately, this is true even for internal devices like expresscard devices.