Sager Notebook Advice / Critique Requested

I am in the market for a new laptop and I have three goals:

• Laptop ideally would weigh less than 9 lbs
• Must be as” future proof” and “upgrade-able” as possible.
• I’m looking to build a “higher-end” gaming laptop that is still portable – would like to avoid SLI / 10+ pound beasts, but will re-consider (i.e. Sager 9262 build off the clevo D901C) if the "upgrade ability" factor ultimately requires it.

I know divining future product specs is near impossible, but hear me out. I have been considering the NP8662 (15.4 inch screen and the GTX 260M) as well as the NP5797 (17inch screen and the GTX 280M). Obviously the NP5797 has a larger thermal budget which probably makes it inherently more upgrade-able down the road (CPU and GPU).

All the laoptops mentioned above have a good bit of upgrade ability in the CPU department. I would likely start off with middle of the road dual core in the 2.66 GHZ range which I could upgrade to an extreme core or even quad core when needed well down the line.

I’ve been educated to think in terms of thermal budgets. Every laptop has one and they can't be exceeded- ultimately playing a factor in 'upgrade-ability'. For example, I learned that the NP8662 cant run the GTX 280M because it'll blow out the thermal budget which is why I'm leaning away from it since I have concerns that I won't be able to upgrade beyond the 260M in the future. The reasons why I believe this to be the case is based on the following quotes I found (apologies for not attributing the quotes):

So even though NP8660 owners with a 9800 vidcard can upgrade to the 260M…unless a 275M comes out that doesn’t blow the thermal budget it seems that from a GPU upgrade perspective and the fact it is based on MXM 2.1 …it’s the end of the road if you will. Agree / Disagree?

In terms of the NP5797, my question is even though it is based on the MXM2.1 it seems that there would be more headroom to upgrade the 280M to maybe a 295M at some point in the future, agree / disagree?

If GPU upgrade ability for the above two models is unlikely, my last option would be to haul around a D900 seriers or M980nu since they are MXM3.0 boards that also have SLI capability. I really don’t want to go this route unless I absolutely have to… he newer MXM v3.0 laptops are all chunkers (11+ lbs...which i don't want).

Please clarify, correct, and opine away…as I remain conflicted because I refuse to buy a laptop I have little hope of being able to upgrade at least once from a GPU perspective.

 

Is my post ugly? Did it fart in your general direction?

No one has any input?

 

If you're main concern is upgradability I'd wait for the 900f. It will feature the 280m gtx as well as the new i7 processors. Basically the most advanced technology in any laptop to date so the chipsets won't change for awhile.

 

I think you should hold out for MXM 3.0b (D900F/M98NU) as Nvidia is releasing their 40nm (GT200 based) GPU's in Q4 this year which will "most likely" only be released for MXM 3.0b.

 

The D900f will surely be upgradeable, but he doesn't want a heavy weight. But you won't get the upgradeability of a heavyweight in a middle weight 17" chassis. Yes the NP5797 is a big laptop with a lot of room to cool future components, but that's only if Clevo supports it via BIOS and GPU's continue to be released in MXM 2.1. And Montevina refresh will be the end of the line for CPU's; not that they're bad CPU's but they're not i7's. If you want to ensure maximum life from the same chassis and motherboard, The D900f will last you, but you'll pay for it and you'll have to live with the extra weight. If you really want the optimal life from your laptop, you'll wait 12-18 months for Clarksfield, but that's no fun. You can always buy now, sell later, and buy again, it's the price you pay to have the newest, longest-lasting tech.

 

Yeah if you're looking for 9 pounds or less I would say get the NP8662 or the 5797 but as for MXM 2.1 its looking like the proverbial end of the road for upgrades on both these systems, but you never know...

 

thanks for the responses so far guys...they've been exactly what I'm looking for...

I'd potentially go for the 5797 with the 280m GTX as I know that would probably last me from a gaming perspective for 2 years or so...seems the best I could hope for on that front is maybe a future upgrade to a 295m or another variant potentially with more wattage requirements (I'm assuming the 5797 could handle a GPU with another 25W of power consumption...but I am guessing at this point) if Clevo even bothered to release one. There's the rub.

If anyone knows of other sites or specific boards on notebookreview.com that discusses Clevo's product road maps, please let me know.

 

Road maps are generally just a guess for more than a couple months down the road. I just bought my laptop and the chipset's already obselete, which is why I went with the biggest one possible.

 

so we know the 280m gtx will be released in two flavors MXM2.1 AND MXM3.0B. But the clock speeds for the 2.1 variant are lower. Is this due to power / thermal constraints?

Crylo - in a few threads you've posted that you do not believe Nvidia or the EOM's will likely bother with an MXM2.1 based 40nm (GT200 based) GPU.

Do we think this is due to technical or marketing reasons? I'm assuming if they did release an MXM 2.1 version, the shrunk die would allow for higher clock speeds getting past whatever potential issue may exist between the GTX 280M slower clock speeds on 2.1 versus 3.0.

From a marketing perspective, do we think they probably won't do it because they don't want to cannabilize their 900F sales? I can see this argument on the one hand, but at the same time this unit is a beast, and if they can take advantage of the shrunken footprint of 40nm to squeeze that into middleweight and even more portable 8662 type of machines, it seems it would be additive to sales not dilutive.

 

This probably would be due to both technical and marketing reasons, I think (though not 100% sure) with MXM 2.1 there is a limit to its data throughput which MXM3.0b fixes in preparation for Nvidia's future plans and GPU's, and on the other hand, with the D900F and M98NU being Clevo's most expensive models, it goes without saying they want to squeeze every dollar out of those systems as they can, because they rake in more income per system sold with those models than the others. While on the other hand, they know that their M570ETU's and M865ETU's have their own niche market and will sell efficiently regardless.

 

Just to add an aside here, on the topic of the "upgradeability" of Clevo notebooks - technically, the term is used correctly; however, it seems to me that the better term to be used in describing the GPUs on Clevo systems is "replaceable" as in "the user/owner can replace a dead GPU with a replacement unit by him/her-self without having to send the entire unit in for repair/replacement".

I say this because, despite the ability to swap out GPUs, there does not seem to be an extremely long upgrade path - as that term is generally used in describing the ability to replace a component with another containing improved technology - for almost any of the Clevo systems.

Keep in mind, I say this not to denigrate Clevo systems - the ability to replace a blown GPU instead of having to replace the entire motherboard/system is a distinct improvement over almost every other notebook on the market - nonetheless, the more appropriate term to describe the GPUs in Clevo systems is, I believe, "user replaceable" and not "user upgradeable".

 

Well, as I see it...

I'm either going to wait for a year or get the np8662 with a good processor, 260m, forgoing the 1920x1200, blu-ray drive, etc. to keep costs down. No sense in spending xtra dollars, especially since it is likely there won't be a gpu beyond the 260 i could replace / upgrade it with...

After 12 months or so, once Clevo has released a mxm3.0 based middle weight model with the 280M or 40 nm 200 series variant that is back down in the 8 lbs range, I can re-assess.

The D900F looks nice, but 12lbs is way too big - i need the 5797 in mxm 3.0b form or some confirmation that MXM 2.1 gpu's aren't EOL'ed.

 

is the new GPU generation really that far? (12 months)

nvidia said they're coming out the 2nd half of 09

 

The current schedule shows Q4 for the new mobile chips, but consider that tentative.

 

The D900F and M98NU, as I understand it, will be coming out using MXM 3.0 architecture by the end of the year - which with current GPU's is the higher clocked 280M - while also being compatible with the new, as yet unreleased, 40nm architecture graphic chipsets. Both of these machines sing with the fat lady (12+ pounds), so I'm inferring that smaller MXM3.0 compatible laptop models won't be along until end of Q1/Q2 of 2010.

I'd spend the $2500 on a nicely outfitted NP5797 if I had some assurance that Clevo / Nvidia would supply MXM2.1 related GPU's beyond the 280M - but we don't, so if I am going to buy a laptop now it'll be best bang for the buck which in my mind is the 8662 (albeit only dual core - I'm not into Crysis or any of the other quad core games, and no Blu-Ray, and therefore the lower res screen).

Some very knowledgeable people out here on this board. I want to thank again those who corroborated, corrected, and added to this discussion.

 

well, the more time passes the more i think that the "user upgradable" GPU is more and more a marketing ploy. yes its being done, but i personally havent seen the capability to swap from one generation GPU to the next, or to swap high end for high end with significant gains. (unless you want to call 8800-->9800 an upgrade)

hell, even going from duo to quad required a motherboard swap.

it didnt stop me from ordering a 5797 tho, hehe. i'll probably sell it around christmas time for the new stuff. its a vicious circle. i personally found that if you keep "new technology" too long it loses way too much value compared to selling within a year and upgrading.

 

I agree souroull that we are very far (if ever) going to be able to replace parts in a laptop as easily as a desktop, but it has been such a scam that after 2-3 years you end up with something little better than a brick from a gaming perspective. All I'm hoping for is the capability to upgrade / replace the CPU (which I could do now on both the 5797 / 8662 ....going from dual core to a quad when the prices come down) and the GPU (which doesn't look promising). I'm not saying I should be able to go from a 55nm to a 40nm completely new architecture but say 2-3 iterations (total of 50% performance boost) from a GPU perspective in a laptop.