Sager Petition | Virtu MVP Mobile

Sign This Petition!

OriginPC, Mythlogic, MainGear already are providing this option for their high performance notebook owners! Many desktop MB OEMs like ASRock, Intel, HIS, ECS, GigaByte, Sapphire, BioStar, FoxConn, MSI have already been supporting this for years now.

Let me make this clear. Lucid Logix Virtu MVP Mobile WORKS now with Clevo notebooks and have been working for about a year now. This technology is available, and working NOW!

I have provided links below that explains what Virtu MVP Mobile is. Here are some potential benefits!
- Seamless vsync with no performance loss or input latency issues!
- Potentially 20-30% increase in gaming performance!
- Improved video transcoding using Intel's Quick Sync!
- Improved power efficiency!

Sager and Clevo sold us notebooks knowing Enduro wasn't fully working as promised. this is the least they can do if this Virtu can resolve our performance issues with Enduro. They screwed us over taking the gamble that AMD would fulfill their promise, which they didn't and went full steam ahead with switchable rather than giving us the option like Dell/Alienware.

Personally I don't understand why we need to petition for this when the competition are providing it without being petitioned. And with the reason above, this is the least Sager can do. I don't care if I have to pay $50 for it. I want it! I want what was promised me, a high performance gaming mobile machine, not something gimped by the HD4000 POS.

Post here if you support this idea and provide input on how to petition Sager for this.

Sign This Petition!

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Mobile...irst-Look-Integrated-And-Discrete-Join-Forces

http://techreport.com/review/23746/a-look-at-lucid-virtu-mvp-mobile

http://www.legitreviews.com/news/14959/

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/31/3281762/lucid-virtu-mvp-mobile-software-gaming-laptops-origin

http://www.techpowerup.com/178926/MAINGEAR-Boosts-Mobile-Gaming-with-Lucid-Virtu-MVP-Software.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Main...ng-on-All-Nomad-Gaming-Notebooks-322508.shtml

 

I support it! and I'm sure future resellers will make this happen

 

Surprised more wouldn't be fans of this

 

This is just adding another layer of potential driver issues and it's still the intel chip driving the displays.

 

I want more options and it's been successful for OriginPC and all the reviews that have already been out there verify it's success. Tech reviews have shown this provides upwards of 20% performance and it's well worth having this option.

Unlike AMD, this company is actively making sure iGPU and dGPU work together.

Please don't post here if you don't like the idea, that's not what it's for. Post somewhere else if you want to discuss the pros and cons of this. This is for people who WANT this.

I WANT it, AMD has yet to resolve the issue to my satisfaction, not sure if others are happy.

Makes absolutely no sense to my why you would petition against it... It's not forced anyone, no one is going to force you to install it. The alternative is to just suffer waiting for AMD to decide what is more important, supporting their largest customer base, mobile users, or continue to support the smallest source of profit, the desktop buffoons with CFX and triple CFX who whine and complain all day long.

 

Could you post up some of these reviews, it might help the petition

 

Posted the links. Whether anyone decides this isn't for them, I still believe having the option is better than having no option. What kind of effort did it take for AMD to even acknowledge they screwed up GCN and Mobile?

We had to have dozens of threads on NBR. Then me creating a massive thread. Then slamming AnandTech for not discussing the issue further. Contacting TomsHardware. Getting support of Rage3D. And even then, AMD still haven't fulfilled their promises.

For over a year, on desktop and mobile, gamers and reviewers all have noticed micro stuttering and issues with frame latency. You get 70+ FPS, but it feels like you are getting 25 FPS. It took Tech Report, lots of controversy, posted in nearly every 3D gaming forum, and twitter, and plenty of youtube videos before AMD admitted they don't even QC or test drivers to ensure there is smooth gaming experience, just looking for highest FPS number.

It took Nvidia a massive class lawsuit by Dell, Apple, HP, Acer etc for Nvidia to admit they were using shodding manufacturing for the 8xxxM series and fix it. For months/years, people just had to deal with RMA while their GPU melted and burned.

So I ask to all you Sager AMD or Nvidia owner... Do you want to rely only on Nvidia and AMD to faithfully to provide us mobile gamers the support we deserve for our $600 and $900 GPU? Put it this way, there is currently no single desktop GPU that costs as much as our mobile GPUs. We get the worst driver support. How is this fair? It's not, but sadly we can't depend on them, so you want the Lucid Logix option or only AMD/Nvidia? Intel, ha! They don't care at all, they probably prefer if AMD and Nvidia didn't exist. So don't even bother hoping for their help.

 

With AMD's new chip targeting the mobile high end I really hope they intend to improve their mobile drivers to actually sell any.

Nvidia's mobile drivers have been fully incorporated into their main driver program and are released at the same time so I don't really have an issue with them.

I'm going to have a decent look into those links you put up.

 

Even if they do, does it matter? Nope, it's increase in performance. This is supported by nearly all Intel Chipset equipped desktop boards and have been for years now. There are even articles on Intel's own site promoting Lucid Logix's tech.

But I think this especially matters since it would seem we can't depend on AMD to do the right thing.

 

This wont replace the main AMD driver stack, you will still get enduro performance issues with this running.

 

We shall see. It's working for desktop, I don't see why it won't work for us. Desktop cards also have AMD's fubar PowerPlay and Zero Core.

I still don't see the point in being negative on something if you haven't seen it for yourself especially if it really does make having a 7970M that much more enjoyable. And this would benefit those with 680M anyway...

Sign the petition already...

 

No this interfaces with the AMD driver, so it wont magically fix driver based issues. I am not saying this software is bad, just tempering expectations.

 

Why are you tempering? It's been shown to work great with Optimus. I think anyone who reads this knows that 20-30% isn't guaranteed. Optimus uses Muxless Switchable Graphics tech, just like Enduro. And Lucid Logix already supports AMD switchable graphics, it's not as if it doesn't exist already and we are not petitioning Lucid Logix to support AMD, they already do...

Mythlogic, MainGear and OriginPC are already promoting and supporting Virtu MVP Mobile.

Sign the petition already...

 

I'm sorry but if you think adding the processing of the HD4000 to the 7970M or 680M is going to add a further 20-30% in any situation you are kidding yourself.

 

Yes, everyone is a liar. Anyway, write your own blog about this elsewhere. This is a thread to PETITION, not let's be Mr. Negative.

 

This is a discussion forum and you can't just create an area where you can mislead people and not expect anyone to say anything.

 

What is your problem? Why are you being so negative about something so positive. No one is being mislead. The readers here are old enough to make a decision on buying premium, expensive performance notebooks. They also know how to use google and I already provided links to help them get started on some reading. What is your problem?

Its a beneficial option. You make it sound like this will cause more problems. This isn't a permanent hardware mod. So again, what is your problem? Why are you being so negative about allowing Sager owners to have an option/alternative to just settling with AMD and Nvidias current support?

 

My main problem is the 20-30% you keep banding around literally everywhere without providing benchmarks of it.

They show at medium details a 660M based machine getting 10-15% increases in skyrim for example.

That would mean 680M users could hope for 3-6% increases.

 

You said your piece. I'm inclined to believe the reviews, not your speculation. Others can make their decisions also.

But disapointed you feel so fervently negative about something that can provide so much benefits. 20-30% potential increase in gaming. Ridiculous amount of improvement with video transcoding using Intel's tech. This likely means awesome performance boost for hardware accelerated apps.

Thank you for not supporting the petition. I applaud how you are representing PowerNotebooks in this regard.

I can't think of any reason why PowerNotebooks wouldn't be excited to tell their customers and potential customers that Sager now provides Virtu MVP Mobile to provide increase in gaming performance, improved vsync, and improved transcoding performance and overall power efficiency.

 

didnt mythlogic already say that theyre gonna provide their machines and customers with virtu? and since it already supports amd switchable graphics, what exactly is this petition for then?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

Yes you are right! Mythlogic, MainGear and OriginPC so far have been very positive and excited about this and providing it to their customers!!!

But Mythlogic have disclosed their license agreement with Lucid Logix means they can only provide this support to Mythlogic customers, no one else. This petition is for Sager owners to also have this awesome option

 

Yea we are excited, we've been working with them for a while on AMD support, and we've had hardware with them since October after they told us they didn't support AMD's only nVIDIA. We were not going to launch a product we couldn't provide to ALL our customers (We think thats odd), so thats why AMD support was required for us and is still a priority. Not because of the "issues" with the 7970m, we've been working with AMD on that also since launch and knew they were going to be fixed (a little slower than we would have liked, but resolution is resolution). This is just another value added bonus that we really wanted to provide our customers so that they could squeeze every drop of performance out of their laptops =)

Trust me we would love to just offer it up to everyone, but agreements are agreements. But we've been really happy with the additional performance we've seen, we know sometimes its kind of smoke and mirrors, but we thought that about the killer wireless cards when they launched, and look how that turned out

 

@hulawafu: aaah ok gotcha

@myth: what kinda performance gains are we talking here exactly? especially on the highend gpus 680M/7970M...?

 

@Mythlogic, as always looking for the most performance and benefit for Clevo owners. Never cease to amaze me with your tireless enthusiasm for high end mobile computing

 

Have you even asked Sager if they have plans to provide the software before starting a pointless petition that will be signed by about 3 people?

If not why don't you try sending them an email.

 

Would you like to sign the petition and ask Sager? I hope more than 3 people will sign and you'll be among them

 

Depends on the games, anywhere between 5%-30%

Thats what we are here for =) Taking what we are given and getting every last drop of awesome out of it.

 

well according to a few chinese sites that I have read, the so called improvement is actually fake:
Lucid Virtu MVP: mode spécial benchmark & XLR8 - Cartes Graphiques - HardWare.fr

Now I can't read french and I am not the best technical guy out there but I will try to translate this chinese post which is based upon that French sites:
Lucid Virtu MVP

The Z68 motherboard has a very special feature, that is the implemented Lucid Virtu softsoft

The sugar coated lie: the dark secret of Lucid Virtu MVP
Lucid is a special company, their products: Hydra chip and Virtu soften appears to be so amazing, not only do they support different chipsets with different articature, they even support DGPU and Multi GPU support. They have recently released another software called DynamiX which claims to boost multi GPU and low performance DGPU power without chaning the resolution and lowering the graphic options, sure it sounds very attractive.

A lot of motherboard big companies are supporting Virtu MVP technology in the CeBIT from last month due to Intel has invested in Lucid company. ASROCK has even put in the Virtu MVP onto the A75 motherboard

But we have found what the Virtu MVP is cheating explained by Lucid (?? I think they wrote something wrong here)

3 months ago, the French Hardware.fr website has some a Virtu MVP testing, especially on the so called: Hyper Performance
The result was that the feature boosted the performance only by cheating.

The Virtu MVP stops the Draw Call command sent by the CPU, throw away the 4 steps shown above (? I think something is missing here) and other then the bottom of the monitor (something is wrong here but the next part looks correct), the previous image process is just looping. These images were boosted in frame because of Virtu MVP manually plugged in. If we are to calculate the real Useful frame rate per second, then the effect of Hyperformance would be shown to be over rated.

the lower comments say:
(I will be short on these ones)
there are some lags and stuttering after installed
with Virtu MVP, the framerate is measured by the actual and images that are not yet completely rendered
This fake performance won't even work on some games
It helps with transcoding
Frame rate has increased in BF3 but certainly more laggy and "broke image" (I guess that is artifacts?)
The scores of BF3 has increased but the actual performance actually feels the same and sometimes even appears to be worse. uninstalled.

some images I found here:
¹ÒÑòÍ·Âô¹·È⣺Lucid Virtu MVPºÚÄ»½ÒÃÜ-Lucid,Virtu,MVP,ºÚÄ»,-Çý¶¯Ö®¼Ò


They have mentioned more on how the fake frame rate was measured but I don't have time to translate them now. Go to the 2nd page ([第2页]) and google translate for the moment. I think it is also based upon the french site

And some other posts I have found: Ãâ·ÑµÄÌáÉý´ó²Í»¹ÊÇ¿ÓµùµÄÐû´«àåÍ·£¿Lucid Virtu MVPʵ²â¶àͼ_ÅäÖðÉ_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É

Some graphs there shows:
d-Mode helps DX9 or older games, but the performance is very limited.
d mode on DX10 and DX11 games may actually have worse performance
i mode will do nothing on the game performance
But
It will boost 3Dmark scores lol

 

That's my W110ER with the older Lucid version, GT650M @ stock clocks & with the smallest Quadcore 3612QM (uses an underclocked HD4000) :

NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-3612QM Processor,CLEVO CO. W110ER score: P2973 3DMarks

That's about one forth extra power...and my Mod BIOS can OC the GT650M & HD4000...may do some fresh benches with Lucid 2 & Prema Mod OC during the weekend...

 

what people in that chinese sites' (actually is taiwanese) thread talking about lucid are mainly: with lucid, the games such as battlefield got broken frame, lagging, studdering, crash (lucid itself and the game), sound distortion. some of them just uninstall it and need to reinstall windows and they think the hyperformance is useless.

in the first place i thought this is something like igpu+dgpu sli/crossfire but now seems not the case

 

please do and also include a comparison score on 650m only at stock

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

@Prema: About your 3dmark result

"Your result has the following problem(s):

This result is invalid as Virtu MVP HyperFormance was enabled. Please turn off Virtu MVP and re-run the benchmark. "
This message can appear only with motherboards that support Lucidlogix Virtu MVP HyperFormance technology. HyperFormance modifies the rendering in Futuremark benchmarks in a way that makes the score unsuitable for comparing system performance with results that do not use it. You should disable HyperFormance in Virtu control panel and re-run the benchmark to get a score that can be used for comparisons.

Scores obtained with HyperFormance enabled are not accepted for Futuremark Hall of Fame and cannot participate in any benchmarking contests run by Futuremark.

From the French test, about HyPerformance in 3dMark :
"The previously calculated image is actually repeated except for the meter at the bottom of the screen. These images intercalated grows artificially the framerate, if you count the number of frames "useful" actually calculated per second, HyPerformance produces a lower number."

 

That doesn't make sense. They are claiming it repeats certain parts of the frame while keeping the rest the same for 3DMark? That sounds like nonsense.

One thing to remember, this Virtu tech is not new, it's been around for many years now. And Intel and ASRock etc are all still providing and supporting it. Occasionally some companies try to get away with it, but they usually get caught. This hasn't happened with Lucid and these companies continue to invest and support it.

Tech Report who have some of the more sophisticated and thorough analysis, they were the ones who revealed the AMD frame latency issue, have stated, Virtu works and the hyperperformance works as advertised. So some french site, where we don't even have the correct and proper translation knows more than Intel's R&D? Does that make sense?

 

Stock GT650M graphics score is 2200...

LucidLogix Virtu MVP and 3DMark | 3DMark 11 – The Gamer's Benchmark for DirectX 11

 

well never mind, looks like there is a fully translated english version here:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/858-1/lucidlogix-virtu-mvp-in-action.html

Damn it, I just wasted an hour's work lol

Reason why 3DMark has a much higher score:
After the article was posted on hardware.fr, Lucid went and had a conversation with them and admitted that there is a special Hyperformance mode running during 3DMark and Unigine Heaven. they did it becaused it is otherwise hard to convince the motherboard producers (in other words, harder to get lincence fees off the hardware motherboard companies)

Also related,
Futuremarks will allow Lucid’s Virtu score to be added BUT will state whether the system has Virtu MVP or not

 

What you fail to realize is that it's not Sager's fault. AMD support was inconclusive at best because of AMD. The GTX680m works just fine as is. It's the 7970m that is having issues and those have yet to be resolved by AMD. Just because Lucid is offering options to boost performance (which, with more evidence, seems to be proving as "virtual" performance, just as this is "virtual graphics."), doesn't mean that they're working with the 7970m. That's what Mythlogic told you, yet you are conveniently ignoring, and also what Meaker, a highly respected reseller who has experience and first-hand knowledge that you blatantly disregarded, tried to tell you. Even though Origin PC and Maingear are supporting Lucid, let's be honest here: They're known for supporting gimmicks to make an extra buck. Sager doesn't just support stuff before testing it first unless CLEVO asks them to. In this case, CLEVO is the one at fault here if anyone, yet by my last recollection, AMD was last seen himming and hawing around the issues with the 7970m with CLEVO, yet because of contracts signed, CLEVO has been forced to sell the 7970m in the line-up. Again, Virtu doesn't support this fully yet and as Meaker pointed out: You don't add a booster to broken drivers. That's AMD's fault, not Sager's or CLEVO's. Get the facts straight.

On a much more productive note, have you even attempted to call Sager about this? They're pretty d*mn open when it comes to considering this stuff will also tell you if they are already looking into it or why they are NOT looking into it. Rather than spamming petitions at people and pushing away people that have experience, you may want to give that a try. Heck, they may even be on board with the petition if it's something they see as a viable solution and give your petition a boost. However, the way you're going about this is rather asinine. Try using some respect and dignity while you still have some.

 

"Obviously this practice is simply cheating. Virtu MVP is intercepting the draw calls sent by the CPU for these type A frames and deleting all the “useful” draw calls, only keeping these four calls for the band. Thus the frame previously processed is indeed repeated, except for the counter at the bottom of the screen. In this case these interspersed frames simply increase the framerate artificially and if we count the number of frames truly processed per second, HyperFormance actually produces fewer."

That's all I need to hear, lol.

TL;DR Virtu MVP just repeats the same frames with a new FPS, etc, drawn on them therefore it doesn't boost anything.

 

Doesn't even make sense. Said it before, makes no sense it would repeat frames except for the counter at the bottom. And as said before also, Tech Report found HyperPerformance to work as advertised.

But more than anything, I trust Intel and Mythlogic more. Intel invested in Lucid Logix and continues to provide this on all their desktop boards. And Mythlogic here has spent considerable time and money to make sure it works for their customers.
- I do not believe that Intel could be fooled so easily with something as lame as repeating frames. And Tech Report are measuring drivers looking for frame latency for the true, overall FPS. So they are not morons either. I also do not believe so many manufacturers would be duped, considering this Virtu software has been out for many years now.

So that's not all I need to hear. One random forum that I know nothing about says something vs all of the above who I do know and recognize, found otherwise.

 

I've read through this thread, and I am a bit confused as to how this actually works. My level of tech is just above noob, so what are the main benefits of this? What would I gain from this with my rig (in my sig) for example?

 

I know this is going to be WORDS, but http://www.lucidlogix.com/download/WP-Eliminating Graphics Pipeline Redundancies 181011.pdf thats what their software does.

Is some of what they do considered "cheating" by some people, ok sure, but its all about smooth experience and latency, so long as you get a smooth experience and have good latency and you aren't losing information that you NEED (aka frames) then if it improves it then great . We agree with some of the posters, after having spent a bunch of time with them and their software and talking to their partners and engineers, they really know what they are doing, and they have a product that works, else they wouldn't be packed in to basically every gaming motherboard around

 

Tech report just did an basic benchmark on it. They didn't go into depth like BeHardware did here Lucidlogix Virtu MVP in action (page 3: Hyperformance, Virtual V-Sync) - BeHardware .

 

I for one won't be taking their word for it. Are you trying to tell me, BeHardware know more than Intel, HIS, ASRock, MSI, Asus, BioStar, ECS, FoxConn engineers? How do you explain that? That all these engineers were duped, and been duped for YEARS. Are you telling me, BeHardware know more than Dr. Reuven Bakalash who has made his career with parallel processing technologies?

Oh well, personally I'd still like the option to have. I like having options. If it works for you, makes the game smoother with the virtu vsync and makes better use of the switchable graphics system we have, why not?

 

Thanks all for signing the petition. I hope we have this available option.

 

Would this only be an improvement for future Sager/Clevo models, or would current owners be able to access it if it were to become supported?

 

Good question. I have no idea what this software does. Im feeling like a Zulu tribesman, trying to figgure out how a color TV works.

 

The reason I created a petition is because of what I've said a few times already in this thread. The licensing for it is only by companies, not by computer model. Mythlogic, OriginPC etc can only provide this awesome tech to only their customers. If Sager decides to give us this awesome tech, it will be available to all Sager notebooks that use muxless switchable graphics.

 

so....for a W370ET, will it do something useful?

 

Depends on how its licensed, we offer it to all our owners of 2012 models, and will (as long as it compatible and provides value) to our 2013 models also, but thats up to how you license the software.

Basically it does a form of hybrid rendering (like SLI, but not a true split of the workload, there are lots of algorithms that decide what GPU does what), think of it like a traffic cop for the two GPU's that instead of master / slave its more like working together.

Basically the "slower" the machine GPU wise the more potential impact this software has.

 

Thanks for the info.. will definitely sign this.

 

Thanks for supporting the cause It's obvious to me, that mobile gaming, combining power and energy efficiency has not been perfected, so in the meantime, having more options and ideas is a good thing.

To add to Mythlogic's explanation, the head researcher for Lucid Logix made his career with parallel processing.