Sager vs. Thinkpad Build Quality

So I'm stuck in a rut between a 13inch Macbook pro, a Thinkpad T-series, or the Sager NP5160. I'm kind of fed up with my ty Dell build quality because it has broken in so many different places in the past 3.5ish years. I know Macbook Pros aren't that great in build quality, but their protection program/warranty is excellent...and they just work. The Thinkpad series are well know to have laptops built like tanks, so I know they're reputable. Now enter the NP5160...This thing has amazing specs....quad core, 540M, etc. etc. But how does this thing hold up to the weather? I know its made of all plastic, but is it durable? Does it stay cool enough? Will it last me 4ish years? The price point for the Sager is also excellent compared to the other two for the specs you get in it. So does Sager compensate good specs with the build?

I stuck a poll inside to see what people think, but seeing as to this is the Sager forum I'm sure most of you will vote on Sager. If you can help provide details then this would help me very much.

 

What are you planning on using the laptop for?

 

Its mostly for school and work in the future, but I also do some light gaming. I'm also in the process of learning how to to java in hopes of doing some android apps.

 

Both ThinkPads and MBPs have very good build quality. I'd also recommend Probooks/Elitebooks even though I normally stay away from HP (especially consumer grade). Since our new Sagers are so fresh, there's simply not enough time related data to compare the quality. Generally, Sager's have one vital PRO, - outstanding cooling system, which greatly helps to increase the laptop's life span.

 

Since you have already narrowed down your list to T-Series vs. 5160 vs. MBP, then for your needs, you should go with the Thinkpad. It is the most suitable for work and school, and it can definitely handle lightgaming.

 

Does anyone have experience with Sager's warranty service? Are they generally pretty good or do I have to jump through hoops of fire to get what I want? Everything I see leads back to Sager being the best specs for you money. I can't even get a quad-core for the same price on a Thinkpad...My dell currently has an Nvidia 8600M GT and its not that far below an NVS3100M. So my gaming is going to VERY light on a Thinkpad...

 

What is your budget, and what kind of games do you play? Also, what kind of classes or work are you planning on doing?

 

I'd say I have a hard 1200 budget. Ideally I'd like to get it around 1000 though. Most of my school and work will revolve around biochemistry/chemistry work so it would not be taxing at all on my cpu. However, I do like the ability to multitask with my tons of programs without a slow down on my computer. I'll probably be getting a 1080p upgrade so I have a higher resolution. In terms of games, I don't expect it to run crysis 2 on ultra mode, but atleast simple games like hl2 and cs source. I've been playing civ 5 on my 9600M GT and I had to crank it to low on everything and its still slow as hell....

I should probably also mention I'd like to stream HD movies from my laptop to my PS3. My Dell could barely handle it on my dual core 2.0ghz centrino. It couldn't even render 1080p movies without streaming. But I imagine any modern day dual core above 2.0 can handle that type of work now.

 

Ok, then yes, the 5160 will be the best bang for your buck. All of the laptops that you are considering will last 4 years for the work that you plan to do. However, the same cannot be said for gaming. They will give you high FPS for games like HL2 and CS:S, but you probably will have problems running some newer releases (in 2 years or so) at anything beyond low or medium, if at all.

Regarding build quality, few people have the 5160 yet, so it's hard to say. What I can tell you is that my 8150 feels better than ANY of the Thinkpads I have owned. I am not sure if the same can be said of the 5160, but since it's a Sager, I don't think you have much to worry about.

 

Can't really comment on build quality myself, still waiting on mine, but I've heard good things about Sager, especially in their cooling, best bang for the buck hands down is Sager. As far as warranty, if you go through a reseller, and not the company itself the I think you'll have a much more pleasant experience if anything does go wrong, since Sager is really more of a manufacturer, and relies on third parties to handle the front end, like sells, and warranty.

And MacBook vs. Sager in cooling, is not even a competition, as far as I'm concerned, I have issues with Apple, and I want you to know this is a very biased flaming prejudice opinion, but heat is the enemy, and system with better cooling is going to last longer. And there's problems with all OS's definitely, but if your going to be coding as I see, my guess is you'll find those issues with Macs sooner rather then later, and my guess is you'll be booting Win7 and using Parallels a lot.

 

My experience with Sager (and basically anything that was once a Clevo barebones at some point) is this: It'll last ya, it'll do more than you expect it to do, and it'll cost you less than any other laptop maker. That's my experience. If you're in the US I suggest XoticPC, others will suggest the same or some other reseller... begins with an M I think? Oh right... Mythlogic.

Anyway... on Xotic, I can make that 5160 into an i7 physical quad, put a 500GB hard drive hybrid (with the 4GB SSD memory chip on it) and get 8GB of RAM with IC-Diamond thermal compound for just over $1000 USD. To me, it's a great buy, and my friend has a couple Lenovo laptops and they give him a bit of trouble; he loved them at first but hates them now. I'm not trying to bash Lenovo, but that's what I need to recommend to you based on my experience. My sis got a Dell Laptop with a 330M GPU in it, and it's not so bad; a 540M will cream it though, so you should be able to handle medium gaming (Left 4 Dead and up). Probably not max it out, but still good performance. My laptop's been going for almost 2 years (June 2011 will be its 2-year mark) and the only issue I've had with it AT ALL was a faulty hard drive once, which was replaced under warranty without much issue. And I'm even living internationally.

And as for multitasking, a good dual core isn't bad, the main issue is RAM. That quad with 8GB? For what you said you wanted to do, that'd probably laugh and ask you to render a video while you're at it so it can flex its muscles. =P

 

Speak to a few resellers, not just one or two. That will open up options for you.

 

I've been looking at a few. Seems like Xotic has the best prices. Is it just me more is Mythlogic way more expensive for the same stuff inside the 5160? Granted, it does have a pretty enticing warranty. And I hear they can load windows for me if I provide them with my key?

 

I don't know about that, but I think that Xotic is for sure the best in prices, though people seem to like Mythlogic a lot. I say the best resellers need no advertising, because satisfied customers do it for them. I dealt with Xotic and their service is good, when I had my hard drive replaced I asked if they could send a couple extra screws because the tops of the ones I had were kind of dull (hard to screw in/out, the screwdriver kept slipping out) and they said okay, and sent me like 12 extra in a little bag. I was like =D. So if you want, you could call them and ask them about all that beforehand as well.

Ask around about resellers though, but so far the two giants are Xotic and Mythlogic.

Oh, and I DO suggest using a credit card with Xotic if you go with them, it speeds things up SO nicely.

 

If you weren't looking at gaming, then I'd say Thinkpad, otherwise this lineup of Sagers seems to offer the best bang for the buck at the moment, and the last two Sagers I owned had excellent build quality too.

 

If the laptop is sitting on your desk as a desktop replacement rather than carried around daily then go for the Sager, you will get better performance for your dollar.

If your going to be carrying it around a lot then a business class (thinkpad, elitebook, or dell business series) laptop 12"-14" would be a better investment in terms of build quality.

 

Personally if you could wait I'd say go with a echeck. Saving 3% off the order is a nice little bonus for waiting a few more days.

 

Aye, I'm not sure how much faster (if at all) the process would be when using a credit card, since most resellers will communicate your order to Sager on the day you place it, not the day your payment clears. Not to mention an e-check clears quicker than the typical Sager lead-time.

 

T-Series if you're not looking for gaming. The Clevos are generally made of really solid plastic, and the cooling is better than most other OEMs. Eitherway, you should be satisfied performance-wise.

 

You save 3% using credit cards, bank wire transfers and e-checks. Credit card simply gets them the money fastest in my experience.

 

The sager he wants is a 15 inch, and with its CPU/GPU idling he could get a decent battery life out of it I'm sure.

 

Really? But Xotic's Payment section says "To qualify for our 3.0% cash discount we will accept a Check, Money Order, Pay Pal E-Check or Bank Wire Transfer.". Is there another 3% discount I don't know about at Xotic?

EDIT: Upon further reading I noticed you can use your credit card to get the discount by secure payment.

 

Just curious. What kind of battery time do you get out of it? My dell didn't last longer than 40 minutes after 3 months of when i first bought it. Now I almost keep it entirely plugged in...My laptop doesn't charge anymore cause my adaptor is frayed...again. And the battery drains in under 5 minutes if it were to be fully charged. Is there any problems like that with the 5160. I figure its all about how ty the battery design is.

 

Well, the NP8150 gets about 3 hrs with basic desktop and web use. The 5160 with optimus should get at least 4 hrs easily.

 

yeah, myth is more expensive. but that's cuz they build their machines from clevo barebones instead of ordering them pre-built from sager. better quality control since they test everything extensively before they send it out. stuff like that.

and yes, they'll install anything you want. if it requires a key, you'll need to provide it though. so if you have a windows key, you can give it to them so you dont have to buy one and your machine will still get fully tested and benchmarked before it ships out. so if you can get a free key through your school, that'd be your best option.

they're installing just a few things for me (although some others have said myth is installing upwards of 30 applications for them) including OS, iTunes, SC2, chrome, and steam, all before they benchmark. that way i get a more accurate idea of my performance

 

Unfortunately, my laptop would never get more than 1 hour on a new battery, so I kept it charged all the time stupidly. Now, I only get 15 minutes or so out of my battery, but I have a desktop processor in my machine that pulls more than the battery can push out anyway. I keep mine plugged in all the time.

Those other laptops would last you longer; I guarantee it. Just make sure you use the battery often and don't keep it plugged in for weeks at a time without use; that'll make it lose its charge-holding capabilities.

 

I'm not taking about battery life alone, I'm talking about durability (build quality).

But if gaming is the main focus then the Sager is the one to purchase. The build quality will be good enough...

 

If I can get a price match, I might just be sold...Next thing I have to do is convince my brother that the Sager would be better for my needs since I game a bit. I just need to take extra care of my laptop then...no more abuse D:

 

I've never seen a Clevo notebook lose in build quality. Granted I've only been looking at them from January 2009, but still. Plus, the warranty allowing us to clean it/keep it in tip-top shape without being void is fantastic; if anything happens to his Lenovo he'll need to take it to a center or something to get it sorted, even if it's just overheating from being dusty.

 

I can open it and clean it out without voiding my warranty?! UNHEARD OF!

 

included in that is like repasting and other stuff of that nature..

 

Basically, you can open, clean, replace thermal paste, replace parts (warranty for parts won't cover aftermarket parts not gotten from them though) but it will keep labour warranty on that part, and they'll keep parts warranty for parts you didn't swap out (I.E. replace your CPU and your GPU/wireless card/hard drives/touchpad/etc will still be under parts warranty by them)

I know people who mod their stuff, but I'm not sure if that breaks it, you'll need to ask others =D

 

Hello, just registered an account because this was the best forum thread I'd seen on Sager's.

After doing my research, I'm about to purchase this Sager NP5160 from Xotic PC.

But I also just looked at this base Dell XPS 15 and it looks pretty similar and cheaper.

I only want the power to play SC2; I'm not a big PC gaming guy or anything like that. Graphics are not important to me at all. Could the Dell pull off SC2 on low graphics without a problem? Or should I just go with the Sager? I've been told at my price point (around $800) that the Sager is better. But I'm a little nervous because I've never bought anything besides Dell from their official website. Buying a little-known Sager laptop from a reseller is taking a big leap for me.

Really appreciate yalls help because this is a big purchase decision for me.

 

I uhh... suppose... that Dell's machine could pull off SC2 at the absolute lowest settings (and maybe lowest res as well), but I will NEVER recommend you a Dell, HP, Acer, Macbook, Fujitsu or Gateway laptop. I would tell you people love Lenovo, and Toshibas usually have a solid build, but I'm not crazy about em. ASUS, MSI, Sager? I'd tell you go to there first.

But about that laptop, what do you want to do with it? Besides play Starcraft 2? You're getting more for your money with the Sager either way, mind you. Better video card and processor at the least.

As for me, I was inclined to get an Alienware or something whose name I knew before, but I took a plunge and went with the Sager after many people here told me it'd be worth it. And I'm pleased to say I will never go back.
Friend, it's up to you, but I doubt anyone here will tell you get a dell over a Sager, especially if you're looking at a medium-range laptop.

 

To be honest, you're better off getting the 540m video card which is standard in the NP5160, not to mention a much better CPU standard in the NP5160. You will have to add $90 for Windows 7 to the Sager, but even so if you don't do the cash payment it's still only ~ $850.

If you go with Sager, definitely buy from one of the resellers here at NBR. I can vouch for XoticPC and LPC-Digital. While they will deliver the same PC from Sager, they will manage the legwork for the order, and handle any warranty work instead of you having to deal with Sager directly.

I can understand the reluctance to go away from Dell, but I can say Sager build quality is fantastic and customer support from XoticPC so far has been great for me.

I think for the money you can't beat the current gen of Sager products.

 

That's true. I was just referring to wear and tear.

The plastic notebooks will get worn down if you carry them outside of the house a lot. A thinkpad on day 900 of owning it looks like day 30.

I remember I bought a $1400 Asus gaming notebook a few years back, and after damaging the lid after trying hard to keep it in it's pristine state at University I just sent it in the Asus to clean & replace the lid, sold the laptop, bought a refurbished $500 Lenovo T400 and bought a graphics card for a desktop. The T400 took a lot of abuse but always looked flawless, I didn't have to worry about it.

The more recent gaming laptops I've purchased only stay in one spot unless I'm long-distance traveling. My point is that gaming notebooks are too vulnerable for me to carry them around daily.

 

Problem is if you're looking for ~$800 you can't find any ThinkPad that is really gaming capable to any extent for < $1200. And just for the record in case anyone was wondering, an IdeaPad is NOT a ThinkPad. IdeaPad's are no better than any Dell or HP.

 

With the exception of the time my laptop fell about 4 feet when my bag stap burst onto solid concrete and the outside of it has a SLIGHT dent (If I don't show you where it is, you wouldn't even notice it was there), my laptop looks just as good as when I bought it. There'll be unavoidable wear on the keyboard as you use it, but my touchpad looks as new, all the keys on my keyboard have ALL their writing on them, and none have ever fallen out, and my screen's look hasn't changed in forever. The underneath is uniform, the back of my LCD hasn't changed, and I took this to class ~4 days a week for approximately a year and a half since; 1 hour-long public transportation to and from the college, swapping taxis once each journey. So yeah, it lasts =3

 

That was someone new that saw this thread and decided to ask. OP has a limit of $1200 and wishes it was $1000, and he can get the Sager for that. I think we wow'd him with the leniency of the warranty's terms.

That new person has the $800 price limit, and is looking at Dell and Sager. He's being converted to the Sager religio--- I mean... We're convincing him to pick Sager.

 

Amen. <ten chars>

 

I don't have time to read all the posts thus far, but I'm sure some posters have already pointed out the points I'm about to say.

First of all, Apple, IBM and Sager all have excellent build quality. In fact, I'd say Apple and IBM laptops are top of the line. I know because I own a Macbook Pro 13in, IBM Thinkpad that's over 5 years old and also a Sager NP8760.

Now, this may be my bad luck, but so far, the only laptop of the three that has given me problems would be my Sager. After 1 month of purchasing it, part of the motherboard fried and I had to get it replaced (it was within my warranty so it was free). Recently, my battery stopped working because it started to bulge out, so the connectors aren't aligned properly. Now I have to take out the battery and keep it plugged at all times. This could be my problem as I never shut down my laptop. The cooling system is however superb, it's absolutely amazing, but the case is somewhat flimsy and prone to dents and scratches. I know Sager has a good reputation, but I'd say the build quality would be the worst of the three (Apple, IBM, Sager). Nevertheless, Sager would be a good option if you want to have super good specs for your laptop for a reasonable price, since IBM and Apple laptops of the same specs would cost you twice as much.

Macbooks on the other hand are build with aluminum, so its quite prone to scratches, but their build quality is amazing. I've never used a laptop of the same specs as a MBP 13 that can last 5-10 hours on battery. Plus, there is no fan noise, so if fan noise is an annoyance to you, MBP would be a good option. I'm not a hardcore Apple fanboy but I think Apple notebooks are one of the best notebooks in the market.

Lastly, Thinkpads. They are TANKS. They are made for business people, so their build quality is without a doubt top-notch. I've never had any hardware failures with my Thinkpad, and as stated earlier, I've had the notebook for over 5 years and it's still running smooth. So if you're a frequent commuter and travel alot or if you are a clumsy notebook user, go with Thinkpads. Depending on the model of the Thinkpad, some will still work if you spill coffee on them, although I haven't personally tried that. In short, Thinkpads are bunkers.

All three brands produce great laptops. As a side note, even IBM laptops have a plastic shell, so whether or not the notebook has a plastic chassis doesn't really determine the build quality. However, it is true that IBM Thinkpads are more sturdy, but it's dents and scratches are all cosmetic and really have nothing to do with the hardware inside.

EDIT:
Since you have a $1000 budget, I'd say go with Macbook 13. The specs may not be Jesus, but my Macbook 13in runs pretty smooth with Photoshop CS5 and I work with 300 dpi files.

 

no competition, thinkpad t series is legendary with its roll cage technology. no comparison.