Sagers vs 1730...

Originally posted in 'What to Buy' subforum but not getting much response from there... if this is a double post, I apologize.

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Here’s the deal… I am going to get a graduate degree this fall and need a new laptop. I had made up my mind to wait on the reviews for the new M860TU and then pull the trigger after one of the Sager gurus here told me how great it was…

Anyway, I get a call from my dad a few days ago and he says he is going to buy me a laptop as a belated graduation present. I’m thinking SWEET cause that’s a couple of grand I can spend on diapers and baby food! [KIDZ R XPENSIV!!! ]

We start talking and I tell him I’m leaning towards the Sagers because of power + price + build quality. He’s in software sales but its corp.2 corp. sales and he’s not much of a gamer, if at all.

Anyway, he’s somewhat of a Dell fanboi and asked me why I don’t want a Dell. I told him as an avid gamer, an 8800M GTX was a must because this puppy has to last me a few years and I cry in my pillow at night that I can’t play Crysis on my current system. Currently, to my very limited knowledge, Dell only offers the 8800M GTX in SLI mode on the XPS M1730, which when configured properly [read: maxed like I like it!] will run over 5K USD.

Anyway, I just sent him the breakdown and all the specs on the Sagers I’m looking at, the M860TU, the 5793, and the 9262. He wants me to send him the information on the Dell so I configured it on the website and it came out to about $5.1K.

He’s making good money and says he can get a great discount from Dell but that’s still a lot to ask for on my end. He likes Dell because of the warranties and on-site service stuff.

Thanks for reading all that: here’s my question for you guys.

What should I tell my dad? In your opinion, which is the better deal of the 4 [the 3 Sagers or the Dell]?

If you have a 1730, how’s the build quality? Any cons I should know about? I lurk over on the Sager forums so I’m pretty familiar with their pros and cons.

Also, it would cut the price down on the Dell a lot if I could get it w/o an OS and with only 1 8800M GTX… is that possible?

Thanks and I sincerely appreciate any input!!!

 

It's very simply actually...

Portability : Clevo M860TU
Perfect Balance : Sager NP5793 / Clevo M570RU
Pure Power : Sager NP9262 / Clevo D901C



The Dell XPS is less powerful compared to the Sager NP9262 as the Sager has a desktop quad core CPU! But they're just as heavy...
Not to mention Sagers cost lesser, therefore more "bang for buck" !

 

Sager FTW, but if you can get a quote from your father i suggest you do so, especially if you can also get a student discount to stack with other; that may actually make it worth it if you can get enough.

 

If your Dad's got a line into _Dell's business sales, you'll probably be able to get a deal you can't refuse on a _Dell - there was another person posting here, duane123 I believe, who did the same thing and managed to get an _M1730 (again, I think that's what he had) for significantly less than the cost of a Sager NP9262.

If that's the case, then you would be foolish not to go with a really cheap (I mean inexpensive ) _Dell instead of a more expensive Sager.

Now, obviously, loyalty to a non-national brand name should be respected, and it would be understandable if you went with a Sager/Clevo over a _Dell if the price difference was only about $100 or so in favor of the _Dell - in my humble little opinion, and that of a number of other people, there are a number of intangibles the Sager/Clevo has over the _Dell, such as generally better customer service, and more responsiveness in terms of listening to, and acting on, customers' complaints regarding firmware (see, for example, the very long thread regarding the fan-speed issues in the 5793 - Sager listened to the owners' complaints and rewrote the firmware to ameliorate the problem; I have a very, very hard time recalling a situation where a big national brand did the same thing). That being said, however, if the price differential is, say $500 or more, then even most Sager nuts would probably agree that you'd be foolish to buy a Sager over the _Dell just because it's a Sager.

 

you should take a look at m1730's power brick

 

Yeah I read the review on the 1730 and it does seem impressive. Especially moreso if I get it because that would mean my dad threw down the cash for the SLI 8800M GTX which would be awesome!!!!

Seems like the only thing build quality wise [from Chaz's review] on the 1730 is a less than optimal keyboard... which does kinda suck since I'm a wannabe writer.

Anyone have any input?

 

imo i would not go near a dell again.. as a former user i had nothing but problems with the machine (not that all are the same) and the cust service. one thing for sure is i have only had great luck with sager / xotic on that end. i would try to explain to him why spend the extra when he #1 doesnt have to.. #2 you dont really want him to.. for the near 3k$ difference (depending on what his discount is which i gaurantee will not be near 3k$) you will see no advantage with the dell over the sager spec for spec..

i personally think the 1730 is a good machine and its not the model i had issues with. but even if i had all the money in the world to spend why spend it if you dont have to.. and the sager imo is all around a better machine than the dell is..

then i guess its up to you to decide what size or model..imo the new 860 is soooo nice but im not sure after owning a 17" i could go back to a 15... even though many times i thought i would go back i ended up always staying with the 17"

but no doubt the 860 will be killer..

but in the end if its his money and he insists the dell is what he is buying you hey at least its not your $$$...so either way you win..

 

Yeah I'm really thinking that I will come out of this happy no matter what.

I do know that the only way I'll get SLI 8800M GTXs is if I go with the Dell because my dad does favor Dells over Sagers. He has the whole 'we come to you and fix it no matter what warranty' on his and had it fixed in columbia. Since then, he's nominated michael dell for sainthood i think!

 

I think Chaz summed it up the best:

"I have tested both the D900C and the XPS M1730. If I had to choose between the two, it would take me half a heartbeat to choose the Sager. Reasons:
-More solid build quality. The D900C has thicker plastic and a more rigid chassis.
-Better keyboard - the Dell's feels kind of cheap and has flex. The D900C suffers from neither.
-You get what you pay for. IMO the Dell is overpriced compared to what you can get in the Sager for the same amount of money.
-Better performance. There's nothing faster than a D900C. Period.
-Battery life. Believe it or not, the D900C even with the quad-core outlasts the M1730.
-Service. Yes the XPS has better service than the standard Inspiron but service through a reseller like PowerNotebooks or XoticPC will be superior.

Both the M1730 and the D900C are great machines, and I would be happy with either . . . but the Sager has the edge in a head-to-head comparison. Note that this is my OPINION and should be taken as such.
__________________"

 

lol How many times you gonna quote that hkman Great quote nonetheless

 

Yeah, I guess one thing that sweetens the pot for me is that if pops gets the 1730 then I'll have SLI 8800M GTXs... but I doubt he'd go SLI for the 9262...

I could put the other 8800 in then but I would have to pay for it and I'm cheap/broke.

 

Well, to be honest...go for the one that is the cheapest AT THE SAME CONFIG, and a very important thing:
GET THE 3 YEAR FULL WARRANTY,regardless of the reseller. It`s something you need to consider since these are higly expensive systems.
As a personal preference, the 9262 being the MOST POWERFUL laptop on the laptop and way cheaper than the Dell XPX M1730 , I`d go for it.
But if you can get super huge discounts from dell, get the accidental damage warranty,trust me , YOU WILL NEED IT.

 

My laptop and desktop was a dell. I told myself I would never buy another because I always had problems, and when I called customer service, I would wait over an hour on hold, only to speak to somebody in India who couldn't speak english. A few times I was even hung up on for asking them to repeat themselves too many times (not to be mean-I truly didn't understand what they said).

I now have a 9262 and it over doubles my dell desktop (top of the line XPS 1 yr ago) on 3dmark06. The 1730 does match the 9262 on 3dmark, but thus far I have been more than pleased with the every aspect of this beast (build quality, performance, start time, etc.). You also don't get all the useless, processor consuming, pre-installed software that automatically starts on a dell and just pisses you off.

I actually do have one complaint about the 9262 (contrary to the above paragraph). This might seem minor to many people, but it definately gets to me. I wish there was volume buttons on the chassis. Simply an up, down, and mute would be perfect. To have to Alt-tab out of a program to change volume and retest where you are at only to alt-tab again is a royal pain in my ass. for the money I payed, I should have volume buttons. Honestly though, no other complaints.

 

I must say though-If you are going to pay a few hundred less for a 1730 with equal hardware (save the processor of course) than go with the dell.

 

I actually do have one complaint about the 9262 (contrary to the above paragraph). This might seem minor to many people, but it definately gets to me. I wish there was volume buttons on the chassis. Simply an up, down, and mute would be perfect. To have to Alt-tab out of a program to change volume and retest where you are at only to alt-tab again is a royal pain in my ass. for the money I payed, I should have volume buttons. Honestly though, no other complaints.[/QUOTE]

My 9261 has three Fn-keys (F3, F5 and F6) for that. Not optimal, you're right.
What about programming the G1 and G2 keys for volume up and down?

 

you should quote my post after that bud.

READ CHAZ's review of the m1730.

Great build quality, Great Laptop.

If I could go back I would get the m1730.

in 2 seconds.

 

See that's the thing, I'm not really a computer guru and mainly just want this for games. Therefore, some of the differences that make the 9262 stand out from the 1730 don't seem like a big deal to me, ie I don't think I'd notice them if they were gone....

All in all, I'm going to go with the best my dad will give me that won't cost me anything.

If I am reading the situation correctly, I think my choice [in terms of most power] will be between the 5793 and the 1730 [with 8800M GTXs] and that's just not even a comparison.

I never thought I'd say this but I guess I'm leaning towards d'hell....

 

I was looking in to a m570 and ended up with a dell because I got a deall I couldn't pass up. I ended up paying way less than the equivalent 9262 and with a 4 year warranty to boot. Granted not everyone can/will get as good a deal as I did.

As far as the machine goes I couldn't be happier. It plows through any games I throw at it, even crysis in DX10(with my GPU's overclocked). The build quality imo is excelent. Of course it's a matter of taste but I like the looks much better on the 1730.

As far as support goes I don't know how anything can compare to dell support. If something breaks you get the parts the next day, to your home with a technician to install them if you want. None of which costs you anything more than what you paid for the warranty. You don't ship it off at your expense and wait a week or more to get it back. As an IT consultant my client's have 100's of dell laptops in the field and I've been dealing with them for support for 10 years plus. I have yet to fiind anyone that can compete.

Yes sometimes it can be frustrating to deal with India, but if you do your homework before you call you can usually get what you need done in about 30 minutes.

At any rate the Clevos are great machines no doubt about it. I almost got one myself and would have if not for the deal i managed to get. I don't think you will be dissapointed either way. So see what you can get price wise on both and then decide which you like better.

From me the 1730 comes highly reccomended.

 

for 5793 vs. 1730:

 

Also you have to keep in mind Chaz reviews the 1730 when it first came out beofre 8800m's were around etc, so some of the quotes are out of context. And price well, I won't get in to that argument agian but Dell prices aren't set in stone like most clevo resellers and they change promotions constantly.

Also he seems slightly sager biased on the forums but I guess we are all a little skewed on such things. Keep in mind you are asking this on the clevo forum so don't be surprised when 90% of the answers say buy clevo . Which like I said would not be a mistake, they are great machines. Just making an observation.

 

Yeah, honestly, if my dad said buy whatever you want and I'll pay for it, I'd get a maxed out 9262... but I don't think he will. I still think my best shot [read: only] of getting SLI 8800s is thru the dell.

If he gets me a 9262, I'd probably have to buy the other 8800 myself and install it. Therefore, TO ME, the 9262 is probably 700-800 more expensive with similar config than the dell....

 

If you want to get a really good opinion on the Sager or _Dell question from someone who ended up getting a _Dell, you should talk to duane123, who put his opinion on this thread up here. He's very articulate and reasonable, even in the face of less than truly friendly postings in the past. He also knows a thing or two about getting into the real nitty-gritty and gave dexgo some help on dexgo's brilliant (and successful) OC'ing.

At any rate, whatever you do, try to avoid anyone who tries too hard to be too arch and provocative.

 

^uberly pwned.

I think elerons suggestion is the best. WHich ever is cheaper. The Sager has better battery, performance, better looks imo and so on. THe day to day service of Sager will be better, but I doublt youll get a replacement with a new nb if your 9262 is busted.

There was a thread where a user (not chaz) compared both, but i forgot where that went, cant find it in search

 

I agree with eleron. In the end, you buy whatever's best for you (and your wallet)

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback!

 

My 9261 has three Fn-keys (F3, F5 and F6) for that. Not optimal, you're right.
What about programming the G1 and G2 keys for volume up and down?[/QUOTE]


Hey thanks Hanko-the volume commands with the Fn key works. that takes away my only complaint.

 

I think what I have gathered from all of this is that I'll probably be happy with any of the following:

XPS 1730
9262
5793
860TU

I haven't seen anywhere that any of these have serious issues such as those found on the m15x [pending reviews of the 860 of course]. That being said, it all comes down to money now.

UPDATE: I don't think my dad is feeling just real great about shelling out 5k for a fully loaded XPS 1730. He's trying to talk me down to a 15in but I really like 17in screen... had both and took both to class and I just prefer the bigger screen.

That being said, he is going to get a pretty good discount and I think all I'll end paying is the $1K for the SLI 8800 upgrade for a fully loaded xps 1730. I don't think I'll be too dissappointed with it.

 

I'm just trying to figure out what BMW engine failure has to do with overclocking a Sager. I see the parallel you're trying for here, but in the end it has nothing to do with anything. It's good to know someone is keeping up on reading his car mags though. Both the xps and the 9262 are nice laptops, but at the time I bought my 9262 it was a much better deal and the only one with the 8800 gtx. The former of these facts is still true, and the quad core still blows away what the dell offers when it comes to all the music and movie editing I do. Why would you spend this much on a laptop when all you're going to do is play games on it?

 

and I think stock vs stock both directions the d901c beats the dell

 

Clevo D900C has better cooling - long life
Upgraded CPU - Desktop
Upgrade Video Card first Clevo D900C is made to be upgradeable when its release with Geforce Go 7900GTX & 7950GTX when 8800M GTX comes
they just make new bios and put new card i dont think that Dell has this capability and i ask my reseller he told me that Clevo D901C will be compability with new 9800M only with BIOS upgrade
1. Better CPU
2. CPU Upgrade
3. Video Upgrade
4. Better RAM
5. Better Cooling System
and its have long life compare to Dell they die very young

 

As I said before, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, as between two generally equivalent systems, you go with price - loyalty to a brand can only outweigh a small price difference - so if you're going to be able to get an _M1730 at a sufficiently high discount that it's on a par with, or less than, the cost of the NP9262, then by all means you should go with the _M1730.

All brand-loyalty bickering aside, you will not be disappointed with either system, that is a fact, and given that, the determinative factor is generally going to be price (keeping the old man happy - well, happier, at any rate - is also an important intangible factor that should be given a smidge of weight as well).

So, unless you (or your dad) have a radical change of heart, or something else unexpected occurs, let me be the first to congratulate you on your soon-to-be-gotten _Dell M1730 - you're gonna have a blast! And when you get it, come back and tell us what you think of it.

 

One last thing you might want to consider is how soon you want the laptop.

XPS 1730's have been delayed considerably by Dell for the last month or so and many people (including myself) cancelled their orders because of the continuous changes in the delivery date.

If you are not in a hurry the XPS is a great machine. On the other hand I wanted my laptop before June so I cancelled the XPS and got an x80r (M570-RU).

And I am not exxagerating, You can read this thread from the Dell forums for example:

http://www.dellcommunity.com/suppor...board.id=Tech_Talk_XPS_Laptop&thread.id=10790

 

Here is my take on this

If you find a DELL more or less the same price as the Sager (say a difference of not more then $300) then go for the DELL.

Becouse of these:

* Better configuration/personalization software (no need to spend hours looking over the internet to find ways to do make things the way you want).
* They seam to have an upper hand on drivers over all NVIDIA cards of the 8000 Series.
* They listen more to customer complains/issues make available solutions for it to EVERYONE. Especially issues related to gaming perfomance.
* Better service under warranty as you get it directely from the manufacturer.
* Better package.

The advantage of Clevo & Co is that you get a personalized service that may speed up the resolution of specific problems that you might have. Say foulty RAM, faulty LCD connections, bad RAID configuration and so on. Also you can the replacement yourself without voiding the warranty, this may be or not an advantage depending on your skills.

As for both d901c and the XPX M1730 they are on par in gaming performance with the 8800M GTX and technical achievement. The later the Clevo d901c with the Quad Core Dekstop CPU and the DELL with their approach to SLi.

Trance

 

This thread has gotten out of hand and is now closed.

-kdawgca
NBR Mod