Screen flickering issue with P870DM-G

So I had a CLEVO P870MD-G with 2x 980M in SLI (stolen laptop).

Back then as I remember, when I would play a game for 10 mins + (it was Need for Speed Rivals that I was playing mostly), I would start noticing that the screen is flickering badly, the same kind of flickering if you were to set a monitor @ 40 hz....

Then the laptop got stolen....

Now with my new Eurocom Sky X9, I had it for almost 6 days now, did all the benchmarks and whatnot, everything was fine and temps are CPU = 75C max and GPU 65C max which according to Eurocom's tech support, that's very good...

So I then launched Need for Speed Rivals and started playing, after like 15 mins or so, I noticed something different in my screen, so I exited the game and could see the same flickering again.

Just to rule out that it's not an issue in Windows or the driver, I then rebooted and went into BIOS and the flickering was still there, you can see it more obvious since the BIOS background screen color is grey....

So I thought this is a hardware problem although I had my doubts since it happened with 2 diff. laptops, one with a Dual 980M SLI and this Eurocom Sky X9 has a desktop 980 GTX

I then told Prema about this and I had tested over 7 different BIOS variations in the past 24 hours. all had the same issue....

At this point, I was really sad, I thought I had to return the laptop and certainly didn't wanna dare to get another Clevo laptop after this bad experience....

So I thought wait, let me try something.... I had a custom color profile done with my Spyder5 Pro Screen calibrator. I uninstalled the Spyder5Pro program but I can see that the color profile is still that warm color profile so Windows didn't revert back to the original color profile...

I tried everything in color management to set things back to default but with no luck...

So I formatted and reinstalled Windows 10 Pro.

The issue is now fixed...I don't know which of the following is the reason behind fixing it, and I hope I am not speaking too soon but I will continue to monitor the issue......



1) Installed nVIDIA GeForce Drivers v10.18.13.5409 (the driver that came in my Clevo DVD Drivers disc which is 354.09 rather than using 359.00 which is the latest one on Clevo's drivers download site or the latest nVIDIA Driver 361.75

2) Did NOT install the 3DVision Driver

3) Did NOT install GeForce Experience

4) Did not install the IRST Driver, as Prema had mentioned to me before, there is a compatibility issue with the Samsung 950 PRO, who knows, maybe even though I am not using any RAID arrays, but maybe the IRST Driver has some compatibility issues with this 950 PRO NVMe SSD?

5) this time I didn't touch any color profiles/calibration. I had to format because even after removing the Spyder5Pro program, the color profile wasn't removed even though I manually went to color management and reverted everything to default and deleted that calibrated profile, the calibrated profile was still loaded as I know it very well, my screen would be kind of warmer with it.

1) the nVIDIA Driver
2) The Color calibration profile
3) the nVIDIA 3DVision Driver which is installed by default usually but this time I selected Custom install and didn't choose it
4) nVIDIA GeForce Experience
5) IRST Driver, even though I don't have a RAID setup, I had it installed before


The strange thing is, when the issue starts happening, it continues to flicker even after a reboot or going into BIOS. Seems like one of the above culprits is causing some abnormal effect with the screen that lasts for a while as it goes away after 10 or so minutes...

I will continue updating this thread, but I want you all to test by playing a game for 15+ minutes, forget about benchmarks, actual games, and if you don't notice that flickering especially visible on white/grey backgrounds, please post what nVIDIA driver you are using, are you using GeForce Experience or not? Are you installing the 3D Vision driver or did you do a custom install and deselect it? Did you install the IRST driver?

What SSD do you have? I have a dual 950 PRO 512GB as single drives and two 2TB Samsung Spinoint 5400RPM HDD

@Prema @ssj92 @GTVEVO @Firebat246 @Mr. Fox @pathfindercod @tgipier @RFE3 @Niaphim

 

If I had to guess it probably is software related, I know you usually run a ton of stuff so start using the good ole process of elimination if it happens again. This might be easier by getting an image before each install so you can revert back easily and quickly.

 

who knows, I once read on these forums someone say that Samsung Magician has compatibility issues when the IRST Driver is installed. Or it might be the color profile. I have tested every P870DM BIOS under the sun in the past 24 hours and after the format, luckily none of them had this issue. No wonder why noone else but me is complaining about this. I have a strong feeling that most likely it was the color profile that caused some abnormality in the screen? This issue never happened while I am in Windows, only when playing a game for more than 10 mins...

Anyway, I am glad I don't have to return my laptop.

 

When you saw the flicker in the BIOS, was that after a warm boot (restart) or a cold boot?

 

I'd agree with GTVEVO, make incremental changes and see if you can find out what is causing it. Try gaming without the profile being used. Then change to that profile and see if it starts happening afterwards. I don't know if I have seen a calibration causing issues like that, at least that I can think of offhand. But worth checking out to see if it might be the issue.

 

yeah I'll take it one step at a time till I find the issue. I will take a system image before applying that profile again.

You say you are not aware of color profiles doing such thing, the thing is, unless you play games for a long time, you wouldn't even notice it. You also need to know your screen well. Like if it was a normal person looking at my screen, he would probably think that's what it is, but I know how 75hz refresh rate looks / feels like, super smooth and crisp..... when that flickering happens, it's like you are watching a video recorded with a poor video camera where those horizontal refresh rates would appear....

As I mentioned earlier, no stress tests or 3DMark tests would cause this to happen, only in games....so even if your tech people who ship laptops out do their tests and QA checks, they might have not noticed it

we still don't know the root of the issue...

Anyway, will keep everyone posted...

 

It must be something that interferes with the g-sync screen communication...

 

If it wasn't for Prema, his suggestions and extensive help with me on this, this laptop would have been packed for shipping back to Eurocom leaving me without a laptop for weeks. I cannot express my gratitude to this gentleman. He should be the heard of Clevo Support! Noone knows these laptops (and probably all other laptops) inside and out like him!

 

Was it an issue with Gsync? did you figure it out?

 

please read the original post, as I said there are things that I did differently this time that solved the problem. Didn't install IRST driver, didn't install Samsung Magician, didn't install GeForce Experience, didn't install the nVIDIA 3D Vision Driver, reverted back to the stock Clevo driver for the nVIDIA Graphics Driver which is v354.09, and most importantly, didn't install Spyder 5 Pro or load the calibration profile that I have.

The good news is, it wasn't a major hardware problem that required me to ship the laptop back.

 

Bug confirmed, it is the driver 359.00 and the latest 361.75 that cause this issue. While using the original driver that came with my laptop v354.09 the flickering doesn't happen.

But it isn't as visible without using the calibrated color profile.

@Prema

 

Just tried the latest driver on Sager's website for the same model, a bit higher (354.35) and no flickering....

I am really scared to update nVIDIA drivers now after these serious bugs

 

Thats crazy but just to report I use 359.06 modified inf and no garbage, no flicker ever on the attached or external monitor and I play games for long periods.

 

you may have not noticed it.

Can you do me a favor please, play a graphics intensive game for 20 mins then exit and immediately reboot and enter BIOS, it is very visible there...

 

FYI I just finished playing for about 3 hours before my last post but I will set up a run for 20 min and give it a shot.

 

I just tried the Prema VBIOS, same thing, doesn't flicker on the old drivers but flickers after 10 mins of gameplay on the new drivers like 361.75

Here is an observation for you ...When on driver 361.75, the flickering starts happening only after 10 mins or so of gameplay, rebooting doesn't make the flickering go as it is visible even in the BIOS setup screen. So it's like the refresh rate is changing internally and never changing back.Uninstalling the driver using DDU also doesn't remove the flickering....The moment I install the older driver 354.35, as soon as the setup ends, the flickering disappears.... as if all settings are set right again

 

I just tried and no flicker

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

Do you think I can install the desktop version of the nVIDIA drivers since I have a 980 GTX (Desktop Edition) or is it still considered a mobile GPU and needs the mobile drivers?

 

which driver?

you also have the desktop 980?

 

359.06

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ohhh I never tried that one

if you have time and can test on 361.75, I would appreciate it. At least we then know it is a driver issue

Once more, uninstall old driver via DDU, then install 361.75 and reboot. Then play for 15 mins or so. If you don't see a flicker, or don't notice it, go into BIOS maybe it will be more visible there

 

on the 361.75 drivers, with GSYNC off there was no flickering even after 20 mins of gameplay

This sounds like a serious driver issue

 

I thought I was going nuts when I saw some screen flicker on my P750DM-G! I'm running 359.06 modded inf btw.

I might test this out as I never found a repeatable circumstance (even after gaming).

 

in benchmarks, I get no flickering, try a graphics intensive game. Play for 20 mins then exit the game and load any screen which has a white/grey background like Gmail for example. If your eyes cannot detect the flicker, go into BIOS immediately, the BIOS screen has a grey background so it is very easy to detect the flickering.

Just tried 359.06 and there IS flickering.

Going back to 354.35 now

 

I don't even think G-Sync is properly working with the drivers later than 354.35 because when I reverted back to them, the gameplay was much smoother, as if I never had G-SYNC on with the newer drivers even though it was on.

 

Out of curiosity, what kind of framerates are you seeing when gaming and are you using G-Sync + Windowed mode?

My current working theory is that something is wrong with the low frame-rate compensation. Somewhere around 35-40fps the panel is supposed to lock back to static refreshing otherwise the panel will drop out. It's possible it's getting stuck there, and while the TCON is accepting the low refresh-rate, the panel persistence isn't quite high enough, giving you a flicker. That minimum frame time is supposed to be determined by the panel and so can be variable between systems.

I can't seem to get a strong flicker out of mine with testing Witcher3 (everything maxed, so getting ~25-30fps on the 970M). I'll keep testing because I've definitely seen it flicker before. I'll have to do some further testing on my theory, might need to use something with a selectable frame-rate lock and see if I can find the G-Sync minimum and sit it there for a while to see if that causes it.

 

I think I found it! (the low framerate switchover and flickering)

I get very noticeable flicker at exactly 30fps. 29fps goes back to normal and noticeably stutters so I believe it reverts to static refresh at that point. 31fps is similarly fine.

I'm testing with the Nvidia G-Sync Pendulum demo. G-Sync mode selected, use "FPS sliders" option to set min/max to 29/30/31 etc and using the "Show Test Pattern" which is a basic bar across a grey screen. From what I can see, 30fps flickering is not constant and sort of comes in and out. It's most notable on a framerate change up from 29->30.

Once it starts flickering, select "No VSync" and the flickering is gone.

Now to test with different drivers. I'm VERY surprised G-Sync is still operating at 30hz as that seems very low for a minimum panel refresh.

 

I don't know how to check my framerate while I am playing Need for Speed Rivals, please guide me

 

If I have GSYNC ON, do I need to also keep VSYNC ON? I asked about this before and someone on Overclocks.net Forums told me that I need to keep both on Vsync and Gsync

 

Bug report submitted to nVIDIA:

#160201-000056

 

No you do not, GSync will handle the framerate not that it seems to matter on the internal panel as long as the game isn't taking a hit with vsync on (Example JC3). When using an external monitor I do turn GSync off though as there seems to be a very small perf impact on my monitor almost like GSync is trying to work even though it doesn't support it.

 

If it's a Steam game, the Steam overlay has a nifty FPS counter included. If not, the easiest way is FRAPS. I would normally suggest MSI Afterburner/Rivatuner except for the known dangers with Win10/OC software and such.

When G-Sync is used, the V-Sync option simply becomes a frame-limiter (ie to 60/75 or whatever your screen is). The default behaviour is that it's turned ON and simply caps your framerate. When turned OFF, G-Sync will basically turn off as your framerate will be allowed to exceed the panel upper limit.

For a laptop with lower refresh-rate it's usually preferable to leave V-Sync ON as a frame-limiter. As the refresh-rate is low, you're much more likely to encounter tearing if you exceed your max refresh. On desktop panels (where 120/144hz are common) it's less of a problem as the panel refresh is high enough to hide most issues.

The obvious exception to this, is benchmark software where you will have to make sure you force V-Sync AND G-Sync OFF in Nvidia Control Panel.

 

Try to run a game with g sync on and vsync off and your fps will still be 75 max. In my case it always is, gsync acts as it's own limit.

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Nvidia did add the functionality on how to set behaviour beyond the refresh rate, you should now be able to have it either stick to 75hz or go beyond. With my external 144hz then it makes sense to stick it at 144 fps as the input lag at this point is a lot lower.

 

I also get flickers in GTA V when I am firing fully automatic weapons. However I am leaning towards that a GTA V bug rather then nvidia driver bug. Maybe it have something to do with muzzle flash graphic?

 

to confirm, please uninstall current drive with DDU, then install driver 354.09 then test. That driver gives me no flickering

 

New Finding:

Firefox (or any derivative like Cyberfox which I use) has a default refresh-rate of 30hz with hardware acceleration/rendering turned on. This is precisely the "flicker" point on my system.
To top it off, since Firefox is detected erroneously as a 3D app, if it's open anywhere on the system it seems to drag everything down with it. If you're like me and have FF running almost all the time then that may be part of the problem.

I believe this is a bug in the G-Sync/3D window detection which sees Firefox as a 3D application, then syncs to is (30hz) making the whole display flicker. Even if FF is not maximized, dragging the window is noticeably sluggish like running at 30hz. It also seems to be an ongoing issue after 354.09 as I remember reporting this specific bug. It has basically been the source of much of G-Sync being broken recently with "stutter" as the detection code was ruined somewhere in the 355 driver series.

Currently, my solution is to setup a profile in NVCPL to set it to "Fixed Refresh" (it defaults to G-Sync) and V-Sync forced off. Seems to have fixed that part of the issue. Next up is to find why the flicker persists into BIOS.

This does not happen with Chrome, which is correctly detected as a regular 2D app (most Nvidia settings are greyed out) and adheres to the screen refresh.

 

Firefox may be using certain 3d rendering techniques to accelerate itself.

 

Nice observation, but as you mentioned, when it starts, there is no end to it until I downgrade to 354.09 or 354.35, even after uninstalling the current driver and rebooting the flicker is still there...the moment I install the old driver, it's like it sets everything right again and the flicker disappears.

 

I am just surprised that noone has noticed this flicker but us. I am sure many have it but have not noticed thinking that's how the screen is.

 

I find it's hard to pickup unless I'm looking at a flat background. On the desktop background or games it's unnoticeable as I've tested on the Pendulum demo.

The other thing, is the flicker also interacts a bit with some dithering/pixelwalk of the panel which may explain why it seems worse on a flat background.

 

Yuppiee!!! Finally fixed the screen flickering issue!

You see, the only game I was playing these days was Need For Speed Rivals, it seems that the flickering happened after 10 mins or so maybe when the FPS drops to a low level which seems to mess up something with the refresh rate and it gets stuck with that flickering even after a restart and even in the BIOS screen. The issue would never disappear until I installed the older driver 354.35 or 354.09 back.

Someone on the forums mentioned this FPS dip thing causing issues but I actually had no idea that Need For Speed Rivals is locked @ 30 FPS.

So I added the following command line to the game shortcut:

Code:

-GameTime.MaxSimFps 60 -GameTime.ForceSimRate 75+

then enabled GSYNC not only for 3D Apps/Games but for desktop + 3D Apps / Games.

I then played a good 20 mins session of Need For Speed Rivals and my screen didn't flicker!

@Prema @Mr. Fox @GTVEVO

 

Ah yes, a lot of game does that. I had to do some ini editing and force it to read only to force fallout 4 to be 100 fps.

 

That explains it, great find and fix.

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