Shipping from US to Canada?

So I just ordered a laptop from Malibal and the shipping is UPS US to Canada Standard. Now I learned that, you have to pay brokerage fees on top of the shipping price. I live in Ontario so I have to pay HST too. Would it be a better idea to get the Expedited shipping which saves me the brokerage fee. How much would i have to pay HST on the laptop? :S

 

I would personally switch to Expedited shipping both to avoid the brokerage fees (which can be astronomical) and perhaps get it a little faster. In a similar thread, someone mentioned being charged $150 on a $350 monitor. I think I've had to pay $50 on a $100+ order from ThinkGeek once. Robbery.

Taxes would be straight up HST on your purchase price. This is the same regardless of who you were buying it from in the US/Canada or how it is shipped.

 

Yeah, I switched to Expedited shipping. Just the damn HST that I got to pay now. When do I pay this, when i receive the laptop or what?

 

Hi, you pay the HST right before UPS delivers it.

 

Alright thanks!

 

Yes, you will have to pay the HST upon delivery. BTW, you could also save some money going USPS International, less expensive and no brokerage fees

 

Malibal doesn't offer USPS. That's the reason

BTW, does the HST include the price of the laptop + shipping or just the price of the laptop? :S

 

Just the price of the laptop

 

Alright thanks! 180$ just for taxes! damn HST.

 

Fortnax shipped mine USPS and saved me a ton of money.

Sorry that you are in Ontario and have to pay HST. Never, ever, ever ship anything via USP Standard across the border. You will really regret it because the brokerage fees would probably be another $150 alone.

 

The brokerage fee isn't that high... here are the rates: UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada - also, as stated with UPS Express / Expedited there is no additional brokerage fee.

 

yes, those rates are...complicated, lol. Just scroll down and see the other fees. You won't believe how fast the 70$ will change into 200-300$ on you final bill, not including GST/HST. So, 50$ for the standard + 70$ for the value + processing + the tricky part called additional charges may apply = you don't wanna know.

 

Have you ever seen someone pay a $200-300 brokerage fee on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada? Our Canadian customers pay the rates as seen on the page I linked to.

 

Even if it doesn't usually happen it's probably best to avoid.. either way if you're sending with UPS you're probably spending $30-40 anyways, if you add in $70 you're already passing $100. Why not just add $30 more and get express to get it quicker.

 

Yes, we explain this option to all of our Canadian customers, especially those on NBR - since we give them a 40% OFF discount on UPS Express / Expedited services.

 

Yup! Btw, for the HST thing, when the robber comes *cough* UPS man, does he take credit card/debit/cash for the payment or what? I can't find anything on this particular thing :S

 

Yes, quite a few cases and the most annoying thing is it seems to be random. The final total can vary greatly for the same declared value. It's almost never by the book and that's the main reason why switched away from using UPS Standard. So now every Sager system comes with free UPS Expedited Shipping included in price.

Credit card or cheque

 

Are any of these people on the NBR forums, because I want to speak to someone who has paid $200-300 in brokerage fees on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada. We've never had a customer pay a fee anywhere near this.

 

Sure.
First, I'm one of these people, that's why I'm so frustrated with UPS Standard. When we first started bringing laptops from the US, we didn't know about the hidden fees and went Standard. Every notebook we received had a different amount to be paid for customs processing. The range was greater than states in the rules and when started our investigation it appeared that there are hidden fees that may or may not appear in addition to brokerage (integrity, port entry/exit, various permits, etc). i personally wasted a few full days over the phone with customs trying to organize everything but the mysterious other charges may apply was present in every conversation. Eventually, we solved the problem by going Expedited/Express with every shipper and had zero issues ever since. Well, sometimes UPS will charge a customer double taxes or forget to charge but that's fine and can be easily fixed. Unfortunately, several customers got into the same situation with us back then. Will see if I can bring em over here so they can tell their side of the story.

 

Credit card or cheque


Thanks!

 

This link may reveal some interesting info on the nature of extra fees. I won't comment on this further. Every customer can ask the right questions and get the answers.

 

I just called UPS and asked them about the "additional fees" and they said that the only way the brokerage fee will be greater than the prices listed here: UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada is if the shipping documents are missing critical information, that requires UPS to do additional work, such as making phone calls etc. Or the package requires additional services listed at the bottom of this page.

Are you saying that UPS charged you $200-300 in brokerage fees and wouldn't even explicitly state the reason they charged you that much? I just spoke with a supervisor at UPS and he said that he's been working international for 4 years and has never seen a brokerage fee anywhere near this high.

Is it possible for you to PM me the tracking number for the package that had these high brokerage fees? Thanks.

 

That's a funny. Did you really expect him to tell you " I'm sorry, we charge extra on every corner and then pretend it never happened" ?


Anyway, I'm not here to argue with you. If your customers are happy with the UPS Standard option - excellent. We are not going to make the same mistake twice. Good luck.

P.S. if you wish to get into details, I'll be happy to provide you the info. PM

 

Yes, please send me a PM with details on the package that had these high brokerage fees... because based on everything I've read - I don't see how it's possible to have a $300 brokerage fee on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada.

I mean - if you are factoring in GST/PST/HST - then yes, it can easily total $300+... but just the brokerage fees, I've never seen them anywhere near that high. Thanks.

 

Maybe you didn't look for it or preferred not to. Here you can find a couple of examples. Just to make sure it won't be missed, here's one quote from that board:

Here's an older but still very interested thread.

I could continue but you can see my point already.

BTW, I've checked some of our paperwork up to early 2010. Looks like we switched to UPS Expedited/USPS/FEDEX Prority in the early Q1 2010. Will have to dig deeper tomorrow. But I did find one interesting instance where we ordered a sample screen filter from ViewGuard for 19.99$. Paid extra 22$ for the shipping (UPS Standard) and 55$ brokerage fees - more than 200% of the product's value, lol.

Now before I hit the pillow, some food for thought. This brokerage fees % subject is really not as important as the fact that customers have to pay some extra fees upon receiving their systems. As a customer I'd be really unhappy to pay anything extra. This is something that should have been avoided and ideally, made the retailer's responsibility to charge the entire amount right away and make sure that everything is taken care of and there are no extra charges upon delivery. I could provide some further insights on the subject, but again, the argument is pointless by default, even though I'm trying to make it slightly more informative and provide a second opinion along the lines.

 

I'm not defending UPS nor claiming that their brokerage fees are cheap... I know that in certain circumstances the brokerage fee can be a ridiculous amount when compared to the value of the package. Even on the page I linked to - it shows that the brokerage fee can be as high as half the value of the package.

However, in regards to your specific claim - you said that you've seen brokerage fees as high as $300 on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada and I don't think that's possible, otherwise - we would have encountered it at some point in the last 7 years.

So - if you have, in fact, seen this occur on several occasions, then I would like to see evidence of at least one example - because if what you are saying is true... then we want to know about it and everyone reading this needs to know - so that we can all be better informed.

As it stands, I don't think it's possible for the brokerage fee to be that high on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada and everyone I have spoken with at UPS seems to agree with me.

 

I have bought things from UPS Standard and can vouch that they do charge me an arm and a leg on brokerage. On a $300 item that I got, it was $75 brokerage - which is 25%! And this is before tax...

From work, I have dealt with UPS and Fedex and I gotta say, Fedex gives better customer service even though they are slightly more pricy on ground shipments. If anyone is going to go Air, always Fedex.

 

Yes I have, there are additional charges UPS likes to tack on that are not advertised to consumers and they surprise you with them when you receive the package or they refuse delivery. Furthermore, they won't even return the item to sender unless you pay for it. My friend purchased a $700 laptop and was charged $225 in brokerage fees. Another purchased a monitor and the brokerage was 40% of the value. It seems very arbitrary at times. Almost every Canadian who shops online has learned the lesson to never buy anything from the US via UPS standard. Even my mom knows this (she bought a kitchen appliance from an American infomercial and the UPS brokerage fee was more than the appliance was worth).

 

Just goto any Canadian consumers forum such as RedFlagDeals.com and everybody will tell you the same thing. UPS standard is almost arbitrary at times and the fees are always excessive. It's not a problem if you simply ship expedited. What is listed on the website is not indicative of what real world customers have experienced from UPS practices. FedEx and DHL are much better in this respect. It has been this way for over 10 years. The only way to avoid these brokerage charges and the "additional fees" that seem almost arbitrary to the discretion of the private brokerage (who's main goal is not delivery efficiency but profit) is to broker the package yourself. This entails getting the shipment details and trying to find a way to intercept it when it reaches the Canadian distribution depot it is headed to and then submitting all the paperwork yourself - in person, even if you have to drive 500 miles to get there.

Just ship UPS expedited/express or FedEx or DHL or good old United States Postal Service (which is processed by the CBSA and not a private brokerage like the couriers use).

The only way to deal with UPS' business practices are to personally broker the packages yourself, hire your own private broker, or go broke trying to get legal assistance. I believe there was even talk of a class action lawsuit brewing against the practices of UPS's brokerage division at one point.

Look UPS is great for Americans, domestically their rates are cheap and many sellers get great contracts and therefore UPS becomes their only shipping option. However, it is simply not wise for any international customer to have anything shipped via UPS Standard. There are many times I have tried to buy a product online or even ebay and UPS Standard was the only option and that seller immediately lost my business.

The bottom line is this: Why would you pay extra brokerage fees when you don't need to? Ship via USPS and this problem is gone entirely. I will even pay MORE for shipping if a seller offers to ship USPS for me as I understand it may be out of their way as they do not have contract pick-up like UPS.

 

Okay, I just called UPS in Canada and had them look up a recent shipment (i.e. a laptop valued at $2164) - and they were able to break down the pricing of the brokerage.

Total: $92.60
Entry Fee: $78.50
Bond: $9.21
C.O.D. $4.25
GST: $.64

Please note: These are the exact prices as indicated on this page: UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada

The person I spoke with said they have been working at UPS for 13 years and have never seen a $200-300 brokerage on a laptop. I asked them if it was possible for the brokerage fee on a laptop valued at $1200-5000 to be $200-300 and they said that the only way that can happen is by mistake.

So, anyone who has paid a $200-300 brokerage fee on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada, please call this number: 800-263-8125 - give them your tracking number and ask them to break down the pricing of the brokerage fee, and then post the figures like I have done above. Thanks.

 

And for $92.60 in brokerage fees alone (this is on top of the regular shipping fee and taxes which) why would you even offer that option to a potential customer when that in itself would have covered the cost of upgrading to expedited/worldwide express shipping and the customer would have faster shipping in the process? I have come across many ebay sellers who shipped internationally who explicitly state that they will not ship via UPS standard to Canada either because of customer complaints.

I understand you do not want to believe in anecdotal evidence, I and the other Canadians on this forum are just trying to offer advice to improve your business. If I had any recent empirical evidence or invoices to offer you I would, but neither I, nor anyone I know in person or online in Canada is willing to have anything shipped via UPS standard anylonger because of experiences every single one of them have encountered. Perhaps UPS has made an effort to clean up and clarify their brokerage practices in the past two years because there has been legal pressure on them and several class action lawsuits because of their past brokerage practices.

Poyner Baxter - Class Action Lawyers in Vancouver British Columbia Canada

http://www.classaction.ca/actions/c...united-parcel-service-canada-ltd-(-ups-).aspx

If you want to continue to offer UPS standard for international shipments and your customers are satisfied with that, then feel free to continue doing so.

 

QFT.

UPS Standard as the only international shipping option is an instant no sale for me. I've been burned enough on smaller value items (< $500) to think twice about shipping something higher in value over the border via UPS.

UPS Standard has been a PITA for so long that it has been ages since I first/last experienced the high brokerage fees that I don't think I've kept any paper receipts for them. At least, I don't keep any handy for reference. If I go by my parents' house (probably where I lived the last time I shipped anything UPS Standard), I'll rummage through my files.

Perhaps UPS is better today, but that doesn't mean I'll suddenly trust them and try to "save" money on shipping Standard. I'd rather know my full costs up front than get a surprise I can't calculate. Fool me 176 times, shame on me; fool me 177 times...

 

Although we have not seen it much these hidden fees have come up from time to time, Electric and Fortnax are correct. We ALWAYS recommend UPS Express, it's a no brainer.

We also have been getting allot of good feedback from USPS Shipments to Canada in regards to Taxes/Brokerage. That maybe an avenue for some to think about.

Also examine each sellers shipping rates, some charge inflated rates and then offer "Discounts" on them while others offer the standard low rate to every customer and already compete with these "discounted" rates.

 

USPS is the best because the items are cleared through customs through the actual government border agency and the most it will cost you (if it is processed at all and not just simply passed through) is the $5 CBSA fee. Couriers are great for domestic mail but once you cross international borders you run into issues. In these situations, it's best to deal with your government run mail services if expediency is not as big an issue for you as cost.

 

Again, I'm not defending UPS... I'm defending what's called the truth. I posted a link to UPS's advertised brokerage fees and someone replied and said there are additional hidden fees they can charge on top of that.

So my question is - how come our customers have never been hit with these hidden fees? And, as I stated in my last post - a simple phone call to UPS is all it takes to find out what you were charged for - so anyone complaining about being ripped off with hidden fees, isn't very well informed.

You should never be charged more than the basic entry fees listed on this page: UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada plus any additional services that are required such as C.O.D. unless there was a mistake made on the shipping documents which requires more work on UPS's part.

Anyone who claims to have paid $200-300 in brokerage fees on a laptop shipping from the US to Canada either doesn't understand what the brokerage fee entails, is exaggerating or was victim to a mistake on UPS's part - in which case they should contact UPS and get a refund.

 

Ok, I've just finished going through the database up to early 2009 and didn't find anything. But one of my assistants helping me with the paperwork has found an invoice from UPS with 231$ extra fees on it in addition to S&H, - for a single laptop (1800$). Here you go:

This is my last post in this thread, I won't be trying to prove anything to anyone anymore . After switching to the Express/Expedited/USPS methods we have had no major issues with final total charges. Well, there are some minor glitches with USPS, some customers (very rarely 1/20-1/30) get charged the GST twice, or some ridiculous amounts (ranging from 1 to 20$), etc. We simply refund those without questions.

Anyway, I really think the main questions about international shipping were answered here. Those who wish to get details can contact their resellers/shippers/customs for clarifications.



EDIT: Sry, was forced to remove the file by my manager...

 

Yes, but those fees could include PST/GST/HST taxes. On the example I gave, where the brokerage fee was $92.60 - the customer actually paid UPS around $430 total (on a laptop valued at $2164) once the HST was factored in. The customer pays those taxes to UPS, because UPS paid them to get the package released from customs.

See, a lot of times - I don't think people understand that the amount they pay UPS isn't simply for brokerage but for the PST/GST/HST taxes as well.

Anyway, as I said - if anyone ever thinks that they've been charged more (for brokerage) than the rates that I linked to in my previous posts, then please contact UPS at 800-263-8125 and have them review your case, to make sure they didn't make a mistake and overcharge you.

 

Malibal, I have to agree with you on this one. I think people often mistake the taxes which the government charges(which you would have to pay even if you shipped USPS) with UPS-es brokerage fees.

This is why we started bringing in these laptops on our UPS account and have the customer pay the brokerage and taxes in advance so there won't be any collection by UPS when the laptop arrives. I have NEVER had any extra or hidden fees on my account. EVER.

 

Sorry I disagree, the CBSA cannot collect anything on a laptop aside from GST/PST/HST.

Regardless if the customer has the option of shipping via USPS, none of this is an issue and they have a significant savings. It's fine if you build it into your price but the customer can save money and the reseller can profit more by going with an alternative shipping method that doesn't waste money on brokerage fees to a 3rd party like UPS.

On a $1500 laptop, I paid 5% GST so $75. That was it.

And NovaH, you will have to pay GST/HST/PST depending on your province but the Canadian Border Services Agency cannot collect any duties on computer products because of NAFTA. All you pay is your provincial and federal taxes based on the value of the item written on the customs declaration.

If the CBSA opens your package, it's another $5 for their handling fee but they didn't open mine for inspection.

 

Correct, that is exactly what I said. They will still collect taxes if you ship USPS. howewver if the paperwork from a Canadaian reseller is filled out properly, you will not pay anything when you receive your laptopsince it is paid to us, the reseller, before it even ships.

This is a matter of opinion. Some people would rather pay for a service such as brokerage to make sure their package arrives on time. It is not a scam though it may be overpriced. I have seen the difference myself.

Correct.

If you read my post about buying a Sager in Canada(and I know you have ) you know that I already mention this. I did not mention duties anywhere in this post so why are you bringing it up?

As for GST/HST/PST, we charge the customer upfront. There is no need for them to pay it after the package arrives. That's just inconvenient.