Should I wait?

So I am likely to buy a Mailibal/Sager/Clevo soonish, likely mid-December at the earliest. From what I've been seeing either some pricing may come down as new models are coming out soonish, and new GPUs.

If of course those releases happen to be early 2012, not like 12 months from now, would waiting be a better choice than buying now-ish?

I'm looking at a mid-level P151HM1 or P170HM, mid-level meaning not dropping an extra $1500-2000 to get the highest choice CPU/GPU

 

If you don't need a machine right away, waiting is always a better option. Something better is always around the corner, as it were. This is especially true with technology, which changes every 6 months to 1 year down the road. Now, the releases for next year aren't 100% confirmed, so take that with a grain of salt as well.

For the budget you've listed, if you only plan to game on it you could have a fairly maxed out machine. The 2760qm/2670QM + 6990 + SSD combo should come out under your budget and would be the best possible performance you can get for gaming (the 6990 will hold you back long before the processor, so upgrading the CPU is really optional)

 

There is always something new around the corner, but at some point you just have to buy. Otherwise you'll be waiting forever.

 

Oh trust me I know, it was a while ago but when I bought my last laptop I did my homework, took my time to get the best bang for my buck. 3 weeks after it came in the mail, a better, cheaper, pre-built laptop was released.

But the info about the refunds if there is a special through December 31st is good to know, and of course if any new releases are on the horizon(as I don't keep up with news about components...)

 

I think the rumor is that Ivy Bridge should be coming out in March of 2012, not 100% confirmed, but it may be worth-while. The new Ivy Bridge processors will feature tri-gates, which have shown to significantly reduce power usage but boost performance. Really interesting stuff.

 

Also backwards compatibility with PM67 chipsets (P170HM)

 

Yes within 6 months there are significant new releases coming. Of course almost every 6 months there is something coming. ....
_

 

How long are you willing to wait? By the time that new tech comes out to the market they'll announce the next generation of hardware.

 

Will the 6990M be decreasing in price any time soon? It seems ridiculously affordable to begin with, and I'm damn happy with mine.

 

Yeah stuff like that is in the back of my mind... Like if I get this, will it suddenly be 200 dollars cheaper.

Also, can the NP8130/151HM1 upgrade to something like the 6990M? I've wondered why there is only the 1.5GB 560M

Range of upgradeability especially with what's already better now, and what's to come, would be a large influence too...

 

According to the infallible Wikipedia. Ivy Bridge is set for a January 2012 release. Would that mean that we would see it very soon at the resellers, or is that the March date J.P. was talking about?

 

The reference to March comes from this article: Intel's 22nm Ivy Bridge Processors launching in March 2012, Flagship Quad Core to feature 77W TDP

 

ah, I see they delayed the release from what people initially expected

I assume this is going to be a relatively significant upgrade. I just don't know if my laptop will survive that long...

 

I know one of the nice things about Sagars is their upgradeability, would the new CPUs potentially be compatible, so I could at some point change mine out?

I'm used to messing around with desktops, but not laptops(as user upgrades and customization is a lot less common, of course.)

 

As long as the new CPU uses the same socket and is supported by the chipset, there's no reason why not. Even if the socket DOES change, you can always upgrade to a new CPU in the same release line as your original was. For example, if you bought a machine now with the 2670QM, you can always upgrade to the 2760QM or 2820XM down the road, even if Ivy Bridge doesn't work in that machine.

 

Hmm. I think that definitely helps. That might help me keep my laptop from falling too far behind, before having to get a new one (probably won't wait 4 years this time!)

Oh and I'm curious. Can the 151hm1 support GPUs like the 6990 or somewhat better Nvidia cards? I notice everyone just offers the one, and a whole plethora for something like the 150HM. If not, I may lean a bit in the more upgradeable direction...

 

It looks like the 151HM has a lower rated power supply, which is the limiting factor for what video cards it supports. I'm not sure what the exact wattage is, but 180W is what the 150HMs have?

If upgradeability is your goal, then the 150HM will definitely have more flexibility.

 

Yep that's it, if you want to be able to easily upgrade, get the 150HM.
For the 151HM you have to buy some additional stuff.

 

i also asked around about price decreases with new part releases, and what I gathered is, components/parts don't decrease in price, they just get replaced fairly quickly.

Now, the question is: How long will it take Clevo to release a new chassis once Ivy Bridge is out?

 

When Sandy Bridge was released, Sager was right on the ball with it. The whole chipset fiasco threw a wrench in the system though. However, if there aren't any issues with Ivy Bridge, Sager/Clevo should have them available rather quickly after release

 

^^^^Maybe even the FIRST to release this platform.
_

 

Hmm, this is definitely making me lean in the direction of the 150HM then...

I suppose that will mean more savings will need to be established(although holidays=$$)

I can't remember on which model I saw it, but since someone mentioned power supply, I remember seeing on one reseller's site the option for either 120W or 180W. Does this make a difference, if so how? (God I feel like such a noob)

 

Haha, oh you guys are going to make me regret not waiting 6 months!

 

What chipset fiasco? Were there motherboard revisions? Or just BIOS revisions? 0.o

If Clevo is indeed on top of new architecture-type releases, then that's bad. The reasoning is, with a new chipset, comes new features. So not only will the new Clevo models include Ivy Bridge, but they will most likely include all these other features and goodies (WIDI) that the non-optimus chipsets don't have... Makes you not want to get a laptop for this holiday and wait it out until the new models are out... Then again, new models always gets released with unpleasant bugs .

 

There was a flaw discovered with the chipset- specifically that the SATA controller could fail slowly over time. It was due to a legacy piece of the architecture being left on the board when it should have been removed. Intel had to recall ALL of the sandy bridge chipsets and it delayed this new Clevo lineup for a few months while the parts were unavailable.

Intel finds Sandy Bridge chipset design flaw, shipments stopped and recalls beginning -- Engadget
AnandTech - Intel Discovers Bug in 6-Series Chipset: Our Analysis

 

This was just for information purposes.

One should purchase a machine when needed. If one can wait until next year during spring sometime, then yes wait.

-

 

Basically the 120W vs. the 180W denotes whether or not it can hold higher-end GPUs.

The P151HM1 is sold normally with a 120W PSU and only supports the GTX 560M card, whereas the P150HM is sold with a 180W PSU, hence the reason most Sager/Clevo resellers offer upgraded GPUs with it.

 

I think the MXM standard may change sometime next year so you may want to wait for that or at least confirmation that it will not change.

 

Any info from a reseller on this would be great!

 

Drue, as you've already discussed, you can wait forever for "the next big thing." By the time anything gets to market in this industry, it's already obsolete because the next next big thing is being revealed. That's why we love what Clevo has to offer: upgradeability. It may not be the cheapest thing in the world to do, but at least it's possible. That said, upgradeability has its limits.

Here's my story: I bought an M860TU in late 2008, equipped with a 9800m GT. I was thrilled. Two and a half years later, I came back to NBR looking to see what I could do about a GPU upgrade. After all, one of the big reasons I bought a Clevo was that it had a user-swappable parts. As it turns out, right about the time I bought my laptop, the MXM 3.0 GPU standard was announced. The M860TU was pretty much the end of the MXM 2.1 generation. I was screwed. I've since swapped in a FX3700m, which is on par with a 280m GTX, but that's pretty much as far as I can go. The original MXM standard was released in 2004. MXM 3.0 was announced in 2008. We're coming up on 2012. I have no inside information, but I'm just sayin'.

Also, nastynate: if the resellers do have any information on it, it would be under a strict non-disclosure agreement. However, if you pay attention, one if them will occasionally offer up a vague opinion or rumor, and follow it up with one of these -->

See where I'm going with this?

 

Gotcha! Thanks.

-Nate

 

Awesome, awesome information NBR peeps!

I am definitely getting closer and closer to a final decision, you're all definitely right that it's silly to worry about being obsolete as soon as I click "confirm." Just like driving a car off the lot, you can't really trouble yourself with that concern...

I am of course not yet out of questions though!

Am I right from what I think has been said, that stuff like GPUs don't go down in price. So if I get the P150HM, getting the lowest card and trying to upgrade later on wouldn't save me any money, correct?

If I'm wrong about that, let's say I get the 560M, and then upgrade to the 6990 later, is it awkward to switch from one brand to another?(different drivers and whatnot...)

 

^^^^ Yes it can be quite expensive to upgrade later. For example if one had a 560M and wanted to upgrade to a AMD 6990M it can cost up-wards of $500.00.

Also to keep in mind is that it can be difficult to sell the 560M. Not too many are in the market for this GPU for a upgrade.
_

 

You are correct, laptop GPU's rarely go down in price. Rather, they're usually phased out for a new model at the same price point (for example, 460m to 560m). Then it's hard to sell the older model as the new one has surpassed it in performance for roughly the same upfront cost.

The difference going between brands may include a new motherboard or incompatible display, but that's really only a concern now on say, the P170HM. If you have the 120hz display, it only works with the Nvidia cards- there is no option for AMD.

 

So basically getting the better one and eventually upgrading it to its successor is the smarter way to go?

1.) Is there much of a difference between the Nvidia 385M and the AMD 6990M? I notice they're the same price, so would it just break down to brand preference?

2.) And in terms of being a gaming unit, a glossy screen is the better way to go yes? Eye fatigue and glare not being a primary concern

 

^^^ "the Nvidia 385M" ?

Did you mean the 485M or the 580M?
_

 

nVidia chips tend to be pricier. 6990m is the latest chip from AMD, they claim it's faster than the 580m but I think it's probably about the same performance.

It would most likely be superior than the 385m (when was that released anyway?)

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/594137-580m-vs-6990m-benches.html

Glossy = colors are more vivid and vibrant! I'm a fan of glossy screens unless there is glare then it's very annoying to deal with.

 

Whoops, yeah meant the 485M

 

I love how I keep convincing myself to get an increasingly expensive rig. I'm already looking at ~$600 more than I was saying my upper limit was!

Technologyyyy! *shakes fist at sky*

 

Lol, I started with the 5160, and by the end of the week, I was clicking "Buy" on an 8130 what was over $400 above my limit

Mr. Mysterious

 

I was frenzied to buy the Asus G74SX with its GTX560M, then I found out about MSI683DTX with GTX570M and after 2 months of undecidedness, I went ahead and got myself my current rig. Which by the way is on the same price as the MSI 683DTX but has WAY more performance

 

This is why this forum is so good for buyers. One can ask questions and get feedback so as to get the the most 'bang for the buck'. Great thread here.
_

 

Yes, I am getting the impression that something good is going to be released come 2012 Q2.

 

I'm almost about to purchase a new laptop, but I think I'll wait for Black Friday deals Plus... if I look at what I'll be using the laptop for (SCII, Dota 2, Diablo III, Counter-strike, some adobe, some 1080p movies)... even if the new Ivy Bridges are coming out they probably will not be able to run these games with any noticeable difference in my eyes than what a current i7 with 560m can.

So with that said, think long and hard about what you plan to use your lappy for and honestly evaluate if its worth the extra few hundred bucks and 5 months to upgrade.

My .02c

 

sounds like a plan. Think i will wait for black friday too. Hope they have some great offers on the 8150 with 580M

 

Okay so how is the best way to go about getting replacement/upgrade parts for a Sager/Clevo in the future? I only really have experience buying for desktops, not sure of the sources for notebooks. Are the resellers the best bet? I think I've seen a couple offer something that seemed like such a service...

I get the feeling that there's no way my current 4 year old(deeply abused/loved) laptop is not going to last until the big release season. I may as well just reserve myself to getting mildly upset at how quickly I'm left in the dust technologically(like getting the best non-iPhone on the market, 2 months later a better phone is announced.)

 

Resellers are normally the best bet. You can also grab RAM, HDD, etc. over at Newegg of course, but if you're looking for a screen or a GPU, you'd want to contact your reseller for options.

 

If you have the cash to lay down now, Malibal has a price guarantee until Dec. 31. If what you ordered today is cheaper tomorrow they will refund you the difference. Or so that's how the sales rep explained it to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

That sounds pretty good... I might just place the order sooner now

 

You are correct, sir!