So what is up with Clevo+7970M?

Three problems I see so far in this forum: 7970M over heating (over 90 degrees Celsius), game performance (Enduro causes FPS to drop in some games, and you can't turn off Enduro) and now keyboard response problems (keys some times don't respond, including Backspace, TAB, and Space).

What is going on? I've been psyched, ready to pay $1700 for a world class laptop, and yet these problems exist? Maybe the majority of the laptops are fine, but the ones with problems are reported on more and early on?

 

Well so far these are the issues I have with mine:

--GPU and CPU run at high temperatures. Not a problem in and of itself but my performance is off what it should be by at least 10%, so I'm guessing there is throttling going on. Rather annoying.

--Enduro is useless IMO. It has an extremely short battery life, like 2 hours or less surfing the web. Ok fine, I didn't get it for battery BUT if Endoru isn't giving a long battery life, why have it?

--Keyboard doesn't have good rollover. All the keys on it work fine, but there is blocking that happens with certain key combinations. It is a problem you find on cheap keyboards sometimes. Good keyboards will have at least 6 key rollover, meaning any 6 keys can be pressed at the same time. This one does not.

All in all I'm thinking I should have looked at an Alienware.

 

I wouldn't worry yourself too much, only people with problems will post, which makes up for like 2% of clevo owners, i'm sure most of these issues can be fixed without too much hassle.

The overheating can be due to many things, environment, heatsink issue, TIM issue, dust issue, fan issue.

The Enduro thing is probably a driver issue as many people can definitely max out their card.

Though I have not heard of the keyboard issue, this can't be related to the graphics card... can it?

 

How can we officially ask AMD to help us out with better drivers and features to allow us to disable Enduro? Do they even support the HD 7000M series in official drivers yet? And now we have to upgrade our keyboard to get one that is functional?

Now there is no where to turn to. Alienware is too expensive, and don't want to deal with these Clevo/Sager problems.

If I still go with Sager I guess I'll be taking a chance. I probably will upgrade the keyboard (ugh) and make sure to apply thermal paste to keep the heat down. Quote from page 3 of 7970M over heating thread:

"I checked the temps and the 7970M hit a high of 106 and hovered around 94 on heavy load. I freaked out. I removed the heatsinks to the cpu/gpu and applied some Arctic Silver which I had on hand. Temps avg 70-72 now on heavy load. Paste and it's application makes a big difference"

Also, on page 7

"These machines seem to require a good amount [of thermal paste, Arctic Silver 5] because i think the heatsinks do not make amazing contact."

Update:

Quotes following from: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/671191-7970m-gpu-utilization-games-benches-7.html
"The only solution for me was uninstalling all AMD software, cleaning with Driver Sweeper, cleaning with CCleaner, and installing the leaked beta 9.00 drivers (which also have much better Switchable Graphics options IMO). Now 3DMark11 and my other software, including Metro 2033, show near full utilization. I should try BF3, but it will take forever to update on my service."

"One of our customers used this method:

Install the official Clevo 7970M package without installing the actual display driver. Then install only the display driver from the Guru3D package. This results in a disabled CCC and disabled Enduro + the expected increased benchmark results. Loads of fun.."

New Cat. 12.7 beta drivers: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/671894-cat-12-7-beta-7970m-support.html

 

I think there is a trend of excessive heating of CPU and GPU.
~90C on both CPU and GPU at full load is quite excessive for laptops with 2 vents.

 

Well, mine on full load in Furmark never gets past 65C on the CPU and 80 on the GPU, that's with the standard paste. Going to repaste sometime tonight or this weekend with IC diamond. Most people that do that are seeing 75 max GPU temp. That's NP9150 with 7970M and 3610.

 

Then what do you suggest I do? My temperature results are not environmental, temperature was regulated to 25 degrees (C) during my testing. Heat sink, TIM, fans, all brand new and not messed with by me. Dust? Seriously? After one week of very light use? No not so much.

The problem we are having is that these things are running hot straight from Sager. I didn't do anything to my cooling.

 

i have the standard thermal paste, and i haven't seen it going over 78 degrees Celsius yet =|. with wireless on and internet surfing I get about 3.5 hours of battery time. However I am having problems in regards to getting the fn keys to work properly, sometimes they lag a lot and sometimes they don't work. I think that is a driver problem though. even though this keyboard is fantastic, I am starting to think I should have gone with the clichet keyboard as I am already seeing dust getting in the keyboard. The most dissapointing thing to me for this laptop no doubt is the speakers!!! they suck more than my 6 year old pos gateway -.-

 

I guess in this case, the downsides are the reason why Sager/Clevo laptops are cheaper than the major brands. Like the saying goes, you get what you pay for. It seems like every one around here really respects Clevo though. Any one else have their own opinions on the speakers/keyboard?

Just got a new quote:

"Sound is great compared to the 8130 of last model season. Sager has really stepped it up with the new ONKYO speaker package…."
Source;This webpage is cached since the server is down: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...iew/+NP9150+speakers&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

At least what you are hearing is an upgrade over the last model, a good sign.

Check out last post and on on this page:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...vo-p150em-sager-np9150-owners-lounge-205.html

Later on you see:
"as they are laptop speakers they arent going to compare to external speakers....... ever but for LAPTOP speakers they are quite good just lacking a lot of bass."

KEYBOARD:
Read up this page:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...vo-p150em-sager-np9150-owners-lounge-123.html

I tried the ghosting test, and my desktop keyboard only registers three keys at once. I've never had a single problem in all my years gaming with it.
So I just realized my keyboard does have a couple ghosting issues with three key combos. One is that Q+W+A does not work for some reason. Then I read on in that thread and in later pages and realized the particular new Clevo keyboards have more ghosting issues than they should. Can this be fixed through software? Also, it is confirmed the Steelseries upgrade also would have the same ghosting issues.

I just e-mailed Clevo support, linking this thread and going over all of the problems that have been noticed so far around this forum. I hope they can get back to us and hopefully offer some good news.

TEMPERATURES:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/671844-np9170-cpu-temperature.html
Near the bottom some one mentions "GELID Solutions GC-Extreme Thermal Compound." This stuff consistently shows through newegg reviews that it lowers temps from 5 to 15 degrees under Arctic Silver 5.

 

this has less to do with the cooling capacity of the machines themselves, but rather with the application of the TIM by the respective reseller. I´m not saying that any particular reseller is incompetent or anything, but it just so happens that every once in a while too much TIM is applied, thus blocking the heat transfer between the chip and the heatsink.

to sum it all up: before blaiming Clevo machines in general, just get urself a good TIM (IC Diamond, OCZ Freeze, Arctic Silver, etc.) and repaste both CPU and GPU urself by the methods already described in detail here on the Sager/Clevo forum.

the cooling capabilities of these laptops are among the best on the market, so any upward deviations is in 99% of the cases due to faulty TIM application, heatsink installation (make sure the screws are tight), dust accumulation, high ambient temp or sub-optimal laptop-placement (recommendations include a hard even surface and the back of the laptop slightly propped up to optimize airflow).

cheers

 

temp issues will usually turn out to be due to application of the thermal compound, though every now and then you may have a dodgy fan or heatsink. My 7970m was reaching 88c out of the factory, after repasting though it will hardly touch 80c in furmark. My CPU runs also pretty cool (68c with 3610qm after 5 mins of prime), and this is in 150em which has slightly worse cooling than 170em.
I will agree that there probably is an enduro issue, as so far anyone running 3dmark06 with a clevo 7970m gets 20% less points than alienware users. This should be fixed with new drivers hopefully.
RE: keyboard - cant comment on that, mine works well.

 

Have you activated the sound driver?

 

Great info, this reassured me.

 

The bottom line is that the people who post the most are the people with problems. They want to complain and look for a fix. The people who have a properly functioning machine are too busy gaming to bother with nbr to report their success. Most of these problems will hopefully be resolved by official drivers... Cmon amd!

 

TrantaLocked,

One other thing to consider... The grass may or may not be greener on the other side. Have you researched if there are AW issues w/ the 7970M?

I know at one point I ran across posts on the Clevo forums that Enduro was causing significant performance issues in the 7970 on AW models, and the OP wanted to know if that was a problem with Sager/Clevo. I believe Sager and/or one of the resellers posted back those issues are negligible with whatever model was asked about, and may have had some benches.

Here is one post, and there may be others as well - For example - http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-disable-enduro-clevo-7970-a.html#post8621926 [EDIT] - I had not read that thread in a while, and I see you posted a bit later regarding Enduro. In the Enduro link you provided, it appears that in some of the later posts (page 7 or so), there may have been driver installation issues to blame for some users. Once they corrected that, whatever they were benching at the time went back to expected results.[/EDIT]

In the bigger picture, you may want to research the AW forums to see if there are any problems with those configs before leaping into a final purchase.

Just my $0.02.

 

actually even though this seems to be a drivers issue, i havent seen a single clevo 7970m owner who can run 3dmark06 without performance issues... and its not just 3dmark06, there are other applications, its just that its easiest to see perfromance problems on actual benchmarks as opposed to games where you have many variables.

 

3dmark06 is 6 years old. I wouldn't expect it to give valid results.

 

Since I don't have one, I cannot comment directly on that.

It looks like you're discussing things with DocOccam, Grug7, and Meaker. Also looks like the 3dmark11 bench runs just fine for some or all of you. Finally, I thought your last post might have suggested the CPU is to blame for the bottleneck? (at least that's what I think I read). Hopefully you'll get to the root of the problem.

 

be that as it may, currently a clevo 7970m is outperformed by 6970m in it... the same problem does not exist on alienware's m17x r4, at least not whilst Enduro is disabled. Its also not the only application with this issue, - whilst 3dmark11 is not affected and scores normally, i have yet to play a game or run another benchmark that does not show this gpu under-utilization problem.

Ivy Bridge CPU seems to have improved my Vantage score and brought it up to what other clevo 7970m owners score (probably due to PCI 3.0 support that was lacking in my 2920xm), but still there is no denying that the card is underperforming in most games.

 

my temps are pretty high 93c bf3 ultra. I payed 32euros for the best thermal compound... The reseller said that the thermal paste they use really drops the temps. He didnt want to say what compound they used. But I was really curious so i said yes. I may try prolimatech pk1 and see if that changes anything. My cpu 3720qm doesnt get higher than 75c though. I'll post the results when i get te prolimatech.

Btw the keyboard does really suck. yesterday i needed to code a website. And it wasn't that pleasant to use. The backspace doesnt work well and the left ctrl doesnt work either. Couldnt copy paste well.. Also i hate the fact that the windows key is moved to the right side. It does look really nice though especially with light blue! If Have time i'll open up the keyboard and se if i can hard fix it.

Also the speakers arent that great either although that maybe because i havent configured the thx settings yet..

I may sound really negative but I think 75% of the problems are fixable. Clevo just have to release a bios with more features..

features that i want in te bios:
fn/windows key swap
beter fan control/profile
enduro hard switch button

 

ati drivers.

 

Well that would be Sager. It shipped direct from them. So if they can't apply the TIM right then I'm not sure who to go to about it. I can and will blame the assembler if the system is overheating because they can't paste it right, particularly since I paid for the upgraded paste.

 

Sounds like you got a bum paste job. I'd get that 32 euros back, buy a 10 euro tube of good stuff and fix it yourself. Or send it back, because those temps are awful.

Again, these problems scream that your keyboard is a lemon. I have none of these problems. You may want to RMA the whole system or at the very least see if they'll send you a replacement keyboard. It sucks, but these things happen with any manufacturer. Personally, I like the keyboard, the keys have good travel and make a satisfying, but not too loud, click. The windows key is taking some getting used to, but I appreciate that I'm not accidentally blowing myself out of a game when I fatfinger control like I did on my previous machine.

I'd love the fan profile and enduro hard switch too, but so far I'm happy.

 

If you paid for the upgraded paste, then I don't think it was Sager that applied it. I believe that's only done by the resellers.

 

Okay, so I just did some tests with the stock "paste", then repasted with IC diamond and here are my results. Note that I repasted, then immediately ran the benchmarks without allowing for cure time. I'll rerun later tonight and tomorrow to see if that changes things. These were taken on a Targus Lap Chill Mat.

Ambient temp: 25C constant
Furmark (10 min) :
stock paste : 88C
IC diamond : 83-84C*

3Dmark 2011 - Performance benchmark only:
stock paste : 75C
IC diamond : 73C

*The IC diamond went up to 84C, then back down to 83C for the last 2 minutes.

I say "paste" because the stock was a large square of what felt like clay. Also, my heatsink had lots of little scratches on it. Wish I had gotten a pic.

 

what do you mean? I just installed the realtek driver from the cd, is all no?

 

Nope you need to install the THX software as well. It makes a huge difference.

 

word,its like day and night,even on the lower quality speakers of the HM series otherwise itd be like leaving ur 7970M gpu deactivated during gaming

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

 

Wow, now that is some good stuff to know. I'm putting that on my checklist.

 

So I just tested the Onkyo speakers of the p150em again with the THX activated. In comparison to other notebooks this one is pretty great. I have tested the Asus K53SV, HP Pavilion dv6 with Beatsaudio by Dr. Dre and my old m860tu.

I would say that this laptop is a lot better than the m860tu and maybe a little better than the Asus K53SV. But HP Pavilion dv6 with Beatsaudio is still nr.1 in all the laptops I have ever heard. Although you should know the quality is no way near normal desktop speakers (I used Speedlink Lancea).

Just wanted to clear things up as I previously said the speakers suck, but that's not the case anymore.

 

I am pretty sure if you order through a reseller and get upgraded paste it is Sager.

In Xotic's case, for instance, I believe the only things they do is Color Cal., skins, and their RedLine boosting.

 

This is unbelievable to me. You are contacting their support to fix issues that are not wide spread and not representative of Clevo users and you don't even own a Clevo? , this is just bizarre...

Regardless of who does it, it's such a waste of money. You can buy the enough thermal grease and pads to last you multiple repastes and laptops for less than what Sager is charging and if you do it, doing research on google on best ways to apply, it's the only sure way to make sure it's done right IMO.

Personally I thoguht this was a reason to buy Clevo, they allow you to do your own upgrades and maintenance and not void the warranty. Take advantage of it!

 

Some people in life are just nice. I know, it kind of freaks me out too.

 

my temps went up to 90 °C after about 2h of playing D3... and that with a cooling pad... and furthermore i can't OC until now. Been following the guides and trying different hints by people that solved the problem on their clevos. Not working for me (Afterburner still showing 0/0 on the clocks, even with 7970M active)

should i send it in or is a repaste job done easily? don't want to mess with the warranty

 

repaste yourself, it doesnt void your warranty.
RE: overclocking, i usually need to start an application that uses the GPU (like furmark) then launch MSI afterburner and it then sees the GPU.

 

That is just so ridiculous. Not you, but the fact that we have to go through these contortions just so the GPU can be recognized.

 

Welcome to the world of Enduro driver support.

 

Try limiting your background fps from 150 to 60. It should lower your temps.

 

I didn't think Sager offered it on their site, but checking just now, I guess they do. I stand corrected.

 

arcticjoe or anyone else looking at performance on the 7970m,

Dunno if this will work, but passing along this post regarding the use of the 7970m - http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...on-7970m-sager-resellers-209.html#post8640416

 

appreciate it, but those steps were the very first thing we tried. I think there may be a lot of users unaware that their 7970m is under-performing, just because they get decent 3dmark11 scores and get half decent framerates in other games. Not many people will go to the extra trouble of checking how much their GPU is being utilized or running older benchmarks...

 

Second that.

 

Explain to me why a 3dmark06 score matters?

 

because its a benchmark of my graphic cards raw performance using specific rendering techniques? people keep getting hung up on 3dmark06 thing, but the problem exists in Dirt 3, BF3, Batman :AC, etc. its just easiest way to quantify it using a benchmark score.
Asking users what FPS they get in a specific game is a very broad question, there are too many variables there to make that answer accurate enough to judge performance - they could have used a different map, different scene, different amount of players on screen, etc.

 

3dmark06 is actually way more cpu dependent than vantage and 11 thus not as good a gpu perf indicator as the more current benchmarks

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

 

thats true, but I am using the same CPU i used in my p170hm and my score is less than I scored with 6970m. on alienware m17x r4 7970m scores about 24k, where on clevo EM series you get 20k with the same CPU, the same AMD driver...

 

People do not seem to understand the problem. I thought it was a CPU bottleneck as well, but my CPU utilization in the underperforming applications is at ~40%. The CPU is running at the appropriate clocks. If it were a CPU bottleneck, we should be seeing high CPU utilization and low GPU utilization, not low for both.

 

yep, CPU score is exactly what it should be in 3dmark06... graphics scores are pretty poor though. Its not a CPU issue.

 

now 3dmark06 is the easiest way to determinte if your 7970m is performing the way it should

 

u guys are aware that gpu utilization doesnt have to be at 100% in all applications right? the only ones that are supposed to stress the gpu to 100% at all times are stress tests such as kombustor furmark etc.
besides where did u get that 24k score? all ive seen so far (including notebookcheck) are 3dmark06 scores in the range of 22k-22.5k.

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