Soldered models vs Upgradeable models

Hi,

I'm new to the Clevo world and I'm wondering what would be a real world comparison about of the compact and soldered models versus the upgradeable clunky models, especially from people that had the opportunity to have both types of barebones.

I know about the size, weight, and soldered or not, but how simple is to upgrade a CPU or an MXM GPU board of these models? I looked a bit about places to buy MXM boards and I couldn't find proper places to buy upgrade parts. And it seems there's a loot of hassle regarding case fitting of different MXM boards. For example, I assume that it's not possible to upgrade an XMG U726's to have a GTX 1080, because XMG U727, that is the factory fitted GTX 1080 model, is thicker than U726 (by 2.2mm).

Also, I noticed that an overclocked i7-6820HK can be as much fast as a desktop i7-6700 (or non-overclocked i7-6700K), so, even the desktop CPU thing seems to be a bit overrated maybe?

I would also like to know what people managed to do with the upgradeable models that are really worth the extra size (and price). Does the extra space really pay-off for the cooling system?

How about the ergonomics on the clunky thicker models? Don't you have issues using a keyboard that sits ~4cm above the table or gaming pad?

Thanks in advance!

 

I only post this because we love to debate BGA on NBR. Get ready!

 

I bought an upgradable model and did not upgrade it. So... yeah.

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

Oh boy... prepare yourself, OP. People here REALLY don't like BGA/non-upgradeable - myself included.

Not quite...
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-6820HK+@+2.70GHz

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-6700+@+3.40GHz

The 6700 is quite a bit faster for single-core performance (i.e. gaming). When you talk about a 6700k, you get even more performance and you can even overclock.

Yes, to me and many others here, upgradeable models are worth the extra size and price for better cooling, better performance, better repairability and better upgradability.

 

If you overclock it, it "can" be, which is the operative word.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Skylake-for-Notebooks-Core-i7-6700HQ-and-i7-6820HK-Review.150864.0.html

In almost every test the 6820HK at 4ghz is at most within 5% of the 6700K and typically 2-3% in most tests. Really not surprising given it's identical architectures.

 

I bought a $4000+ laptop last year and I don't know if I can even upgrade my 2x 980m's kinda sad, I know what I have now will last a long time and its still early but :/ I still have some hope......maybe since they released things today someone will know if I will beable to upgrade...

 

I bought a $4000+ laptop last year and I don't know if I can even upgrade my 2x 980m's kinda sad, I know what I have now will last a long time and its still early but :/ I still have some hope......maybe since they released things today someone will know if I will beable to upgrade...

 

I bought a $4000+ laptop last year and I don't know if I can even upgrade my 2x 980m's kinda sad, I know what I have now will last a long time and its still early but :/ I still have some hope......maybe since they released things today someone will know if I will beable to upgrade...

 

That doesn't seem to actually compare gaming performance? I have no doubt that the 6700 would perform better for games given the same GPU in each, especially in very demanding games. The truth is, the desktop i7 6700 DOES perform better than the 6700HQ and 6820HK. When you talk about an upgradeable laptop, you're likely going to end up going with the 6700k anyways and not just a 6700 so then performance is increased even more by having a higher turbo, and then again even more by allowing you to overclock beyond that turbo.

Besides, performance aside, there are still many valid reasons I listed for going with an upgradeable laptop, and those reasons are part of why I only buy upgradeable laptops.

 

They don't compare games performance in that article because it doesn't make a measurable difference in most cases. The only time a game will pull higher framerates is usually due to a CPU bottleneck in the engine which is extremely rare to come by.

Prepare to be disappointed: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-GX700-Notebook-Review.156842.0.html

In almost every game test there, that ASUS GX700 (stock overclocked to 4ghz) performs almost identically to the 980/6700K combo. If you look higher, it literally scores identically in Cinebench to the 6700K.

For a stock 6820HK machine there's the P671RG review here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-P706-Clevo-P671RG-Notebook-Review.152011.0.html
There's game comparisons with the P771DM which only differs in CPU. The only test where the 6700K makes a notable difference is in World of Warships which actually points to a significant CPU bottleneck in that game (the 970M they throw in should be a lot further behind). I'd put it to you that any game which actually has a CPU bottleneck under 100fps is actually broken.

They do have CPU benchmarks with a 4ghz overclock for that P671RG as well and it's VERY close to the 6700K.

Absolutely true. But if gaming is the primary goal, then the 6700HQ/6820HK are perfectly fine.

How many people here bought a P700 series machine and actually upgraded it? MXM cards are dirty expensive. Unfortunately for ZM users Intel changed sockets, so they're dead-ended already if they're on a 4970K.

A lot of people are actually looking at simply buying the DM2/3 straight up anyway

 

I'm still very happy even without upgrading just because the repairability is so much higher so I'm not as afraid if like the CPU dies (no pun intended) for example, etc. I agree that socketed CPUs are fine for gaming, but it's just so much fun having a socketed CPU.

Plus, like you said, for gaming, CPUs don't really matter THAT much, so upgrading an MXM card is certainly a way about going about things - sure, it may cost $500-1000 for a new MXM card, but that's only a small part of the cost of a $2000-4000 laptop.

 

I think I got everyone's point here, and I cannot disagree at all. But I'm still unable to see which one is the winner for me (and for other as well), so I tried to pinpoint the major aspects of both.

I'm not only a gamer, but I'm also a developer, and I go all sort of things with computers.

It's unlikely that I'll transport it outside. So, being clunky is not that a big problem when it comes to transportation. But still, having a compact system, that you can transport from the table to the sofa (to use in a lap table), it's better.

But still, I wonder if being thick can be a problem for my arms (ergonomics, tendinitis, etc).

Also, I hate using that cooling pads. If I have to use it for some reason that doesn't include overclocking, the laptop is ****ty. I hope that's not the case of the Clevo barebones.

Upgrading would be really nice, but that should work every two or three years, and there seems to be always some new interface, or heating issues, or sizing problems, to limit upgrade power. That's why the new Clevo P870DMx models for the Nvidia 10 series are thicker than the previous Maxwell based models, even with Pascal being more efficient? Also, how easy is to buy spare parts for the "upgradeable" models? I'm thinking that the real upgrade power is basically the same for both (putting more RAM or changing storage).

Soldered:

Pros:

• Compact!
• Good excuses to replace laptop every two years (with a 2-year warranty)?
• Better battery time because of mobile CPU?

Cons:

• CPU and GPU cannot be easily replaced in case of a failure.
• Heat dissipation is not the best
• Have to spend more money to replace it

Upgradeable:

Pros:

• Better repairability!
• Better heat dissipation
• More CPU power
• Bigger lifespan

Cons:

• Bad excuses to replace the whole laptop
• Clunky
• Bad ergonomics???
• Virtually no battery, only an embedded no-break power supply
• Expensive GPU upgrades
• Warranty will probably not cover the entire lifespan

The upgradeable model seems to have lost here, but there's still some gut feeling telling me that it's the best option. Maybe it's some cognitive bias telling me that only I need more power.

 

Welcome to the community.

Being a developer, whose only gaming involves Solitaire or Minesweeper, I can safely tell you to strongly consider the Clevo route. As a developer, downtime or changing out components are sometimes a necessary part of the job. Being able to replace a bad SO-DIMM, CPU or SSD in 30 minutes with a run to the local computer shop (assuming in stock) is a huge plus.

GPUs can be swapped if needed, but you may have a wait on delivery for the component. If you have different system problems (malfunctioning or broken keyboard or trackpad, or something goes wrong with the mobo or LCD), then you may have some issues where you go without your laptop, as sometimes this may mean you need to ship the unit back to your reseller. Depending on the problem you may be without the laptop for a period of time - depending on your access to the reseller (can you drive to their offices or do you have to ship it).

Battery life will depend on model, but for me was about 55 minutes on FULL power, but if you're indoors and have access to an outlet, what does that matter? I like to use my lappie as a DTR, and have purchased a few extra PSUs that are set up in my favorite spots, so it's merely matter of plugging into an existing cord once I've settled in.

Ergonomics - KB could be a bit bigger on the 17" models, but the display is good. I personally have a USB hub with KB, mouse and LCD when I do my main work, so using the IO components don't really bother me.

You don't mention what your needs are for development, but you may want to consider a Clevo that can house a large number of drives. For example, I'm eying the P870DM with two 1TB M.2 SSDs and two 1TB or 2TB SSDs. Also, if needed, one can swap them out easy enough if I want to boot into multiple OSs. I can do this right now with my current model easy enough.

Finally, in regards to warranty, check with the reseller. Most (in the US anyways) offer up to a 3 year warranty.

HTH.

 

It's simple. I buy a laptop now with a 6600K CPU. 3-4 years down the road I upgrade to Kaby Lake top of the line K CPU. I have the option and won't break the bank.

 

That would be wonderful. But do you know anyone with a Clevo from 3+4 years back that managed to upgrade to the 6700k?

Sent from my XT1225 using Tapatalk

 

Purchase a system with a GTX 1080 and a 1080p G-SYNC display and it should last you 3-4 years, performance-wise, at the highest settings.

 

I have looked at that except maybe a 1070 instead so I can get back to a 15" format.

I am using 880M now and it's not doing bad. The 4810MQ never gave me issues gaming. If I overclocked it was the GPU. I finally gave up on GPU overclocking with 880M, locked it at 993MHz and called it good.

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

The 1070 will last a fairly long time, too. The G-SYNC display is impressive.

 

My P170SM-A has been a very good machine. I travel with it every day. When I pull out the 240w power brick I explain that this is my "travel brick" and the big one (330w) is at home. I am always met with some staring and a bit of chuckling. So there is that...

Travel and a few drops onto concrete have made this thing ugly. I am on my 3rd LCD panel. One USB port is damaged and now useles. It still always starts and runs flawlessly. I like it and not having Win 7 available on new machines will force much of my work on to VMs.

Ah well... may as well run it until I cannot!

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

For all the maintenance benefit, I'm considering getting an XMG 717 (P775DM2-G or P775DM3-G) with a GTX 1070, an i7-6700, a 250GB m.2 Samsung, and 16GB RAM. I'll install another 500GB SSD Evo 850 and a 1TB HDD that I already own.

I guess this will serve for a long time

 

That's how I roll. I kept an old Dell going for 8 years and have an ASUS going on its 11th, though that one is definitely on its last legs.

 

The only real reason to stop using my Dell Precision M4500 was that model only supported 8GB RAM (some support 16GB). I run more than one VM at times and 8GB wasn't cutting it. I still have the M4500 and use it in my garage to look up stuff. VERY handy when my son and I recently replaced his timing belt.

 

They don't seem to make them like that any more. Of course I realize why that is, but it's still a little sad.

 

Nope. The M4500 is a very sturdy machine. I opted for the higher clocked dual core i7 vs. the quad core. The quad machine has 4 memory sockets and the dual core has only two. I tried 8GB sticks and it would not boot.

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

No, but I know someone who bought a M570TU with a P8600 and 3 years later upgraded to a QX9300 .

 

Looks like the i7-6700HQ has about the same performance as my i7-4810MQ. The Skylake has a bunch of other features that save power. The die shrink helped it too. Runs cooler than my Haswell CPU. The only time I felt I needed to overclock my CPU was for benchmarking. Otherwize it hasn't been a bottleneck for what I do which is work and gaming.