Talk me out of Alienware 17/15 and into NP8672-S / NP8652-S

Hey everyone,

I was really serious about picking up a refurbished Alienware 17 or 15 with a 980m and adding a Samsung EVO, but then I heard about the power supply and heat issues. Someone referred me to Sager and now I'm really interested!

1) Are you guys aware of any heat/PSU throttling issues?

2) Do you recommend both the 17" and 15" models?

3) How do the 1080p IPS panels stack up against the competition? The screen quality is extremely important to me.

4) Anything else to help sway me to the dark side? Take your best shot at Dell

 

1) No, we can remove pretty much all unnecessary throttling with the use of Prema's BIOS mods, and with Clevo/Sager laptops you can repaste them easily, mod them with tape, extra heatpipes, lap the heatsinks, etc. That way, temps are low and throttling never occurs.

2) Yes, just like any laptop, pick whatever size you like more.

3) I don't have one - I refuse to buy IPS, the input latency is 3-4x higher than non-IPS which is a no go for gaming IMO.

4) Clevo makes Alienware computers, Alienware sell them way overpriced and rip people off. They aren't bad computers - because they are built by Clevo, they are just overpriced.

 

Doesn't matter, they all suck. They all treat mobile gamers like dirt. They often sell machines knowing hardware issues exist and then refuse to admit to it leaving the customer stranded.

I have not owned a AW but based on forums and my past with Clevo, AW has a better record. My 7970M from Clevo was broken, AMD Endurance wasn't functioning properly and was never fixed. 7970M burnt out because it had the worst soldering job I have ever seen, resistors actually fell off and I did not game with the 7970M overclocked and did not overvolt it since I had cooling issues. AW had the option to turn off Enduro, superior cooling and soldering that didn't look like a blind amateur had done it.

And then I replaced the 7970M with 675MX, but that had throttling issues which I mostly blamed on Optimus. And as mentioned cooling was subpar, it was not competitive with MSI, AW or Asus at the time.

But seems AW loyal customers have been upset the recent models.

Pick your poison and hope for the best.

FYI I only bought Clevo again because the 4790K and guaranteed no Optimus. I wasn't impressed with the mobile i7 at the time I purchased this current machine. If more impressive CPU were available from AW or Asus or MSI with no Optimus, I would have bought them over Clevo.

 

Umm... If a 60hz ips has a 5ms response time... The response time is literally less than a frame. Its completely irrelevant unless you are at 120hz or 144hz. I'm saying this because you should totally buy an ips panel for gaming, just make sure it has a 5 ms response or around there. 1ms response is better, but makes for no actual difference.

 

That would be nice, on P770ZM I know the IPS display is about 25ms.

http://www.panelook.com/LP173WF4-SPD1_LG Display_17.3_LCM_overview_24463.html

 

Oh wow, interesting. My MSI GT60 has a PLS panel with a much faster response time. Most desktop gaming ips monitors are 5ms.

 

Copprhead66,

I can't help you out on the quality, yet. I was in the same boat as you two weeks ago. I was ready to buy an Alienware, my third actually, but the throttling issues among other things sent me looking. I've been researching and asking questions and have settled on Sager ordered through XoticPC.

Just my opinion, and I know it doesn't have the IPS screen you want, and I don't know what you're looking to spend, but for a couple hundred bucks more, you could get the NP9377-S, and in that machine even have the option for SLI--two GTX980Ms running in perfect harmony. It seems that the machines you have in your post are pretty close to the Alienware models; however, with the Sager machines you are getting the SSD's for about the same price. The CPUs and the GPUs for the Alienware models you have there are not upgradeable. I'm not sure if that's important to you, but that is a selling point of Sager machines. Now I believe that holds true for the Sager models you mention in your OP--they're not upgradeable. If you take the next step up in the Sager machines, or maybe someone might recommend other machines, but if you take the next step to an NP9377-S you can get the upgradability and a GPU with more RAM and more system RAM and an SSD (250GB mSata). In the end, that is the machine I chose over Alienware.

I went for a 17 inch screen. I'm tired of playing on smaller screens. I play at my friend's house every Friday and 17 is gonna be nice for Dying Light. At home, I'm hooked up to an external monitor.

Anyway, good luck with the decision! My Sager should be in a few days.

 

Most laptop IPS panels, or at least ones that Clevo tends to use, are at least 16 ms (lowest I have seen) and even go up to 40 ms which is just insane. I'll take 2-6 ms TN panels over 16-40 ms IPS panels any day.

 

Yeah, if you are using the computer for gaming then you would want to get a TN panel, or at least find out what the response time on an IPS. As you mentioned, some are good and some get up there in numbers. I don't think I have seen many complaints at all about ghost images on Sager's IPS screens though.

 

The ghosting on the NP8652-S isn't terrible, but it is noticeable. If ghosting is something that would be an issue then I would recommend looking for different panels.

 

Again...

Points 1 and 2: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/278610-display-technology-faqmythbuster/

 

Compared to TN or compared to other brands? If the latter; no difference, the same panels are used in all brands. At least with Clevo it's up to you to choose from the various options offered by its resellers (like Sager). Some have a rather limited set, others stock a wide range of panels.

For the P650SG (NP8652-S):

• best matte: AUO B156HAN01.2 (IPS)
• best glossy: AUO B156HW01 V.4 (TN)

The older, glossy TN is actually even better than the newer IPS. Its faster response time may not make a great difference, but there is something else to consider; you can run a TN@+90Hz, whereas IPS is pretty much fixed to 60Hz (unless it's a G-Sync panel; limited to ~75Hz). Won't have G-Sync on the SG anyway without serious modding. If you are indeed, as you say, serious about 'screen quality'; the V4 is incomparable.

However, the thing is; people say they want a good screen, but what they actually want is an IPS (because they've heard it's 'better'). Place both (unmarked) side-by-side and they point to the quality TN within a second (since the IPS will appear 'washed-out'). But when they hear it's a TN, they'll proceed to buy the expensive IPS, although it's inferior in almost every aspect (same as with Apple, really, except some of the Retinas).

Not sure why you'd choose these particular Clevo models, though. Most abandon AW since it's soldering everything down, barring upgrades and replacements. Yet these two models are soldered as well ... so ... thinness?

 

I find the 15 vs 17 to be a personal decision based on mobility needs rather than a one is better than the other. Most machines use the same board and cooling.

 

Right, except in point 1 it says: "In the end it hardly matters anyway, since ghosting hasn't been a big problem since the old days of early IPS panels without modern response time compensation technologies, whose response times reached up to 50ms and beyond. "

40 is pretty much close enough to 50 that it would be bad enough for gaming.

I'll stick with my 2 ms response time over 40 ms.

Well while they may use the same cooling, the actual cooling would probably be better on a 17 because it has more room overall.

 

"Most people are under the impression that the response time is a measure of the display's latency, that ingame feeling of delay between hitting a button and seeing your command play out onscreen, "controller lag" as some people call it. A perfectly reasonable assumption; the value for response time is even given in milliseconds after all. But alas, this delay is NOT what response time measures. Response time is something ENTIRELY different, it just happens to be confusingly named. That "controller lag", delay, whatever you want to call it, is called input lag or latency, and unfortunately it is never actually listed in the specs of a monitor."

And regarding ghosting, most quality ips type panels have 25ms or less response time.

Edit: also, check the section "Lag" on this review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u3415w.htm

 

You're linking me an article about a desktop monitor, really?

You are NEVER going to convince me that IPS panels with higher response times than TN panels that have incredibly low response times, are better for fast-paced, high-action gaming than TN panels - simply because it's just not true. That's fine that you're happy with your 4k IPS monitor that likely has a high response time, but that's just not for me. I like my fast TN panels.

 

So what? I didn´t link you that because of that specific monitor....it seems you didn´t even read the section i pointed out, or read all of the first two points of the first link i posted.

I´m not trying to convince you of anything, nor did i say that ips panels are better for "fast-paced, high action gaming than TN panels".

It seemed to me you were mixing up two different (although related) things, so my posts were just to inform the less knowledgeable that response time isn´t the same as latency/input lag. Low g2g response times do not necessarily equate low latency/input lag..

Just out of curiosity: which 40ms panels are Clevo/Sager offering?

Thank you, i´m really enjoying my 25ms panel. Main purpose of my laptop isn´t gaming.

On a side note: Clevo used to make the chassis of Alienware laptops. Compal and/or Foxconn handle that since Dell bought the Alienware brand.

 

I would imagine that low g2g response time would probably correlate with lower input lag, plus even though input lag and response time aren't the same thing, lower response time is obviously better than higher response time.

As for the 40 ms panels, I can't seem to find them at the moment but I did see a couple before, like a few weeks ago.

If the main purpose isn't gaming then yeah IPS is fine.

As for the side note, that's very interesting.

 

For the NP8652-S the IPS is a LG lp156wf4-slb5 which has a response time of 35-50ms.

 

The Sager doesn't look like it's designed for 13 year old kids