Thinking of Buying Sager laptop

Ok, i need a laptop, and if i'm gonna make a big investment, i need it to last.
Budget is 3500 USD (3000 laptop and 486 transport(i live in europa romania, and sager ships from the states))
Here's the config i was thinking about:

Display 17.3" Full HD LED Display with Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1080)
Video & Graphics Card Nvidia GeForce GTX 480M Graphics with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory
CPU Processor Intel® Core™ i7-620M Processor ( 32nm, 4MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz) [$130.00]
Thermal Compound IC Diamond 7 Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU [$40.00]
Operating System Genuine MS Windows® 7 Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition
Memory 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 2 X 4GB [$230.00]
RAID Storage Options Non-RAID Storage
Primary Hard Disk Drive 80GB Intel SATA2 Solid State Disk Drive [$220.00]
2nd Hard Disk Drive 640GB 5400rpm SATA 300 Secondary Hard Disk Drive [$115.00]
Optical Drive 4X Blu-ray Reader/8X DVD±R/2.4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software [$120.00]
Wireless Network Card Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module [$35.00]
Bluetooth Internal Bluetooth V2.1 Module
Primary Battery Smart Li-Polymer Battery Pack
Integrated Security Device Fingerprint Reader
Microsoft Office New! Microsoft Office Starter 2010 - Included in Price
Warranty Sager 1 Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty
Carrying Bag Standard Carrying Bag

Questions (Hope you guys can help me here)
1)Is the 480m worth over 5870 ?
In my opinion is worth it, not for the extra 10% performance, but for the extra 100% ram, and physics support.

2)The reason i choose 620m and not a quad core is because of the integrated GPU.
Obviously the 480m uses a lot of power, so i want to be able to switch it of and use the integrated GPU in the CPU when i'm not gaming. (It is esspecialy usefull during the nights when i leave my PC download stuff and using the 480m would be a pure waste of power.) Can i do this ? Or is there a posibility sager didn't implement the links to use the IGP ?

3)If there's a no answer to the second question, i might go with a quad core cpu.
3a)If so, i heard the 480m can clock to very low rates, thus using very little power, probably negating the use of the integrated GPU in the CPU in this aspect, but i don't know for sure. What have you guys heard ?

4)Do you guys know of any other laptop that sells 5870, but preferably 480m together with core i cpus non quads (to make use of the igp) and that has the posibility to use 16gb of ram ?

5)If i don't buy the "Wireless Network Card Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module [$35.00]" do i still have wifi in the laptop ?
is this a mini pci express card ? If i don't get one, would that allow me to use this in it's slot ?
this = 64GB - OCZSSDMPES-64G ( http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid_state_drives/ocz_minipci_express_ssd-sata_)
This way i could use this drive for a system drive and get a dual 640gb for storage, allthough i'm pretty sure the intel ssd is way better than this ocz.

 

hi
as your in europe i wouldnt advise buying from america as even though their prices are cheaper you will have to pay import duty and return it to america if it ever needs serviceing.
have a look at Kobalt who are in the uk
the G875 is the newest with a 480 card.
you can see all the kobalt range HERE

sager is a OEM reseller in america like kobalt is in the uk and the chassis are Clevo.

 

I don't believe you can switch from the 480 to the IGP. That is NOT a selling point of Sager. Looks like a great build, but go ahead for the quad core, these beasts don't have good battery life, MAX I get a little over an hour.

 

Thanks very much for the info, i'll go take a look at kobalt web site.

Why can't i switch ?
The IGP is there on the CPU, why can't i use it ?

 

i live in slovakia and i bought a d900f from CIZMO in Germany...comparing to other resellers in europe they have one of the best prices. CIZMO

 

The switchable graphics has to be on the processor, and supported by the motherboard and BIOS, in this instance, I'm pretty positive it is NOT supported by the BIOS. On another note, Kobalt all the way for Euro buyers.

 

Kobalt has good prices but he will pay a lot of money cause of transport from UK to Rumania...it´s better for him to buy a d900f from germany or greece. i was paying 49e for ups i think and i think it would be the same to rumania, maybe a bit more.

 

1) We are not sure yet.
2) The 620M has an IGP, but the W880CU does not have support for switchable graphics. So the 620M IGP will not benefit you in this case, only the lower TDP and power consumption.
3)You might be able to underclock, but you won't be able to gain much more, 10 minutes at most.
4)There are no such laptops at the current time.
5) No, you won't have Wifi unless they provide you with something standard.
No, you won't be able to use a mini PCI-e SSD because the one that exists in normal laptops does not have an I/O controller.


Unless you intend to somehow bypass the customs -> as in someone bringing the laptop for you in person, you will have to pay the VAT on top of the Sager price, bringing the price in line with most EU Clevo resellers. Good EU resellers that I know of are Kobalt, MySN, Xxodd.

If you are looking for a powerful laptop that does not sacrifice battery life, you will have to wait for Sandy Bridge and the next generation of GPUs which should come out in the first half of 2011.

 

I know of cizmo in germany, in fact cizmo and kobalt are the only clevo resselers i know of in europe. If you know other resellers, please point them out with a link to their site.
The reason i skipped cizmo is because i couldn't pair a gtx 480m with a 620m cpu, because i wanted to be able to use the integrated IGP when i switch off the 480m.

But now you guys tell me the said laptop doesn't have bios support for the ability to use the integrated IGP.
Well, that sucks BIG TIME.

Is there no laptop out there with gtx 480m and switchable graphics ? That i would be intrested in gettin'. Because i don't game ALL the time, and theres no point in burning up the fuel.

If there's no IGP+480m solution at this time, maybe you guys know of a IGP+5870 that exists !

And frankly i don't see the point why a IGP+480m solution shouldn't exist, esspecialy since 480m has a tdp of 100w.

 

I think switchable graphics should be a standard on everything. Unfortunately, it isn't yet.

 

There quite many sellers in Europe check this link http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...reseller-info-read-before-posting.html#europe

I do not want to make you change your mind, but you should be aware that for the half of the same price you can get the same performance.

 

I've read the new cpus aka sandy bridge, will be 32nm quads with integrated graphics.
Once ALL the CPUs will have integrated graphics, maybe the switchable graphics technology will become standard, and maybe then one could use a gtx 480m together with an integrated GPU and switch it (the 480m) off when not gaming.

However, that means, the next summer, (in time for diablo 3 ) ) and probably i'll get me a laptop by then.
And i will be pissed it won't have switchable graphics, like the new ones will have )

 

I agree...there is no solution for you. i´m totally happy with my order from cizmo(it will be a year soon and i´m preparing for some upgrades for the next year for my d900f), i can only recommend it to you. my opinion is that if u have enough money to pay for gtx480m then u should probably wait a bit for some better graphics i believe to appear. look, i have gtx280 and when i bought the laptop i was expecting that i will play many games maxed out when there is a free time. unfortunately there is not so many games for me to play. you can play crysis1 maxed out in 1920x1200, or i played settlers 7 maxed out, or now i´m playing wings of prey. gtx280m or 285m is a perfect solution for modern games and not waste of money like gtx480m. if u need to buy a laptop now buy it with these cards or maybe ati5870. and later u´ll replace it with a better one. but my opinion is that u don´t need that graphic now. better option is to invest in a corei7 980. and the resellers...well take a look into the topic http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/264311-clevo-guide-v2-0-faq-reseller-info-read-before-posting.html there are many european resellers, and of course different prices(i think cizmo has one of the best prices).

 

Can i buy a laptop graphics card on it's own and replace what i allready have ?
My thought was that i need to buy the best of what i can find\afford, because after that if i want something better i need a whole new laptop.
I know hdd and ram can be swaped out easily, but taking out a graphics card and insert a new one is a whole different bussines, esspecialy if the laptop doesn't have the ability to cool down the new card.

And since the integrated graphics in the cpus don't work with the 5870 480m graphics card, i think i'll give a look at the d900f and its core i7 desktop cpu.
If i can't get switchable graphics, might as well get a powerfull cpu.

Either i will get a core i7 930 desktop (provides the ability for a future upgrade to a hexacore, and maybe who know, maybe we will get an octa core in lga 1366 socket), or the 840qm cpu.
To bad we can't have switchable graphics with the high end card, and it's a shame, really, because this would be where the switchable graphics had the most sense.
And maybe i'll end up buying from cizmo, its only 50 euros transport to romania.

Anyway, i wanna ask you since you have a d900f, are you aware you can fit 24gb of ram inside it, via 8gb dimms ?
They are way to expensive now, but it's a good prospect for the future. Only eurocom offers the option for 24gb ram on int d900f, all other resselers offer "only" 12gb.

Also another question. Does the d900f have an inbuild 5.1 sound card ?
It would be really nice to be able to connect one of these:
http://www.psykoaudio.com/

At least with the d900f i won't be pissed about the new gen cpu with switchable graphics, as d900f has desktop cpus

 

As I am a d900f(cizmo qi1730)owner i can help you with this. no, in clevo laptops you can change everything whenever you want as an upgrade(for example: CPU/from i7 920 to hexacore/, GPU-mxm 3.0b/which allows you to buy gtx 285 now and later replace with gtx 480 or even better/,dd3 ram(from 2 to 24 gb 1333 mhz, perhaps later with higher frequency/, keyboard/ english,czech etc/,webcam/2 or 3 mpix or better ones when they will appear/,hdd or ssd...really everything so this is a great advantage...yes, it will be 50e for shipping to romania, ive paid the same i think. the warranty is basically 2 yrs(u can pay for the 3yr). the laptop(d900f) has quite a good cooling so don´t worry it can handle it980 and gtx 480(or i hope so , i have only it930 and gtx 280 but like ive said i played everything maxed out and the applications are running great and the response is quick)so i can only recommend it to you.

yes my d900f has inbuilt 5.1 sound card(or at least the 5 channel sound, i´m not sure about the subwoofer cause i´ve set it to 2.0 sound cause i dont have speakers connected to my d900f, but according to manual you can connect 5.1 speakers for sure) the laptop itself has only 4 speakers...the sound is clear, without any problems...no problems with playing looseless flac audiofiles...and considering the 24gbram...if u dont want to use your d900f as a server station or work with extreme applications you don´t need 24gb ram!!!i have 6gb and it´s enough for me for now...like ive said my d900f handled crysis in max settings in 1920x1200(and the fps was 25-45). 6 gb is really enough for now. my advice is if you have enough money prepared...take the best possible cpu now(quadcore i7, no need for the hexacore, and take the ati 5870, 6gb ram, bluray drive/at least i watch many bluray films/ and some good ssd drive). that will eat the budget you mentioned and you will be happy with your d900f. really there is no need for exaggerated configurations...

 

i think you will find you are wrong here.
delivery from the uk to europe is £60/$88/71 euro

We use TNT for UK, EU and Fedex for Worldwide deliveries.
UK - Standard next day delivery from £20.00, optional Saturday Pre-12 delivery from £26.00
Europe - Standard 1-2 day delivery from £60.00

 

The shipping cost to Romania is 50 from everywhere in Europe. My Cyzmo has very high prices compared to the rest of european stores.

P

 

i agree but it´s for ups...it took them 4days i think from germany to my town in slovakia...but it was better for me to buy it from a german reseller(cizmo)in case u will need to send it for upgrades or repairs. sending it back to UK or france wont be a good idea for me. (i was not talking about warranty cases, as i know cizmo pays the whole shipping in warranty cases in a certain area of states in europe, the circle around germany, as i was asking them finland for example is not allowed to ask them to pay shipping for warranty cases...

 

Where can one buy a mobile Nvidia GPU ? The store "usually" sell desktop GPUs

Ok, so i config-ed a D900 on kobalt,
930 cpu, 6gb ddr3 1066, 285gtx gpu, 500gb 7200 rpm hdd, blu ray reader , windows 7 home premium = 2004 pounds including 60 pounds transport and taxes.
Cizmo
930 cpu 6gb ddr 1333, 285gtx gpu, 500gb 7200 rpm hdd, blu ray reader, windows 7 home premium = 2366 euros includin transport 49 and taxes.

2366 euros = 1976 pounds
2004 pounds - 1976 pounds = 28 pounds

So the kobalt system is 28 pounds "more expensive".
However, kobalt charges 353 pounds for the 480m which is 422 euros, unlike cizmo who charges 549 euros for the gtx 480m

So depending on configuration i'll get from whoever sells cheaper what i'm gonna get. And since both companies sell same hardware, the comparison is worth it.

 

You are right . It is better to make a comparison. Some stoores have ffull pick-up and return in all Europe, also in Finland (otherwise I woud npt have bought mine).

(I just made a quick check and it seems that the prices at my cizmo are comparable with those from others). I bought my D901C from Uk because the pound was low at the time. The RON is in such a bad shape that it will not matter if it is bought from UK or euro zone.
P

 

Yesterday i was comparing prices for my d900f configuration in about 20 european resellers and the price difference was 20e more/less. so the only factors which remain are the warranty and the shipping. (someone was complaining that cizmo has high price for shipping but other resellers take i dont know 10e or how many for internal bluetooth and you have it automatically in cizmo configs, like ive said the prices all around europe are almost the same...at least for d900f)

 

If i buy a gtx 285 d900f and want to upgrade to a 480m in the future, where would i be able to buy a 480m from ? The laptop makers barely have this board NOW, who would sell the card stand alone ?

 

The seller or reseller you bought your D900F from should be able to get you the 480M upgrade kit.

 

example: you will buy a d900f with gtx285m now, and a year later you will send it to CIZMO(50+50e shipping you will have to pay)and they will replace your graphic card with gtx 480m. without a problem. another option is to replace it on your own if you are skilled enough. when i was asking cizmo service team they wrote me that replacing a graphic card to mxm slot isnt a big deal and a user can simply replace it.

 

Hello,

While it is very easy to swap the cards if I were you I consider the following.

First: there is no warranty that 480m will reasonable price later when it comes.
Second: Even if the 480m is an option in the d900f, if you buy it now the D900f there is a possibility that the 480m will not work in it. The reason is that it might require a
mother board revision. Maybe some reseller can say more about.


P

 

-There are instructions how to replace the mxm graphic card in d900f somewhere on the internet, you just need to be aware of what u are doing.
-the price is not reasonable, i agree. for example i found one reseller who offers ati5870 CF for the same price as one gtx480m(as an upgrade). as i adviced u many times do not take gtx480m, wait for the next generation or take ati5870.
-gtx480m will work in d900f for sure. it only requires the latest bios and thats the issue for your reseller. he is obliged to provide u with the latest bios so that you gtx480m will work and your motherboard in d900f will recognise gtx480m.

 

Well I would wait for a reseller or ask directly by phone or email to be sure that the 480m works in D900f without a motherboard revision.

P

 

yes, that´s the best option. but it works for sure. just the only requirement is the latest bios which supports the gtx480 in d900f. check the reviews of gtx480m in d900f(so far there are not so many) and ask the reseller.

 

Thanks for the info guys, that cleared a lot for me.

I remembered i wanted to know one more thing.
Question is aimed at rascall
I know the d900f has raid capability.
Is it a software raid, or is there a hardware raid chip inside ?

Can i make a raid strip of 3 hdds ?
Is there a slot for a 12.5mm hdd ? Or all 3 hdd slots are 9mm ?

Do you know if the d900f chasis is gonna get a refresh with usb 3.0 ?

 

i think it´s hardware chip inside, but i´m not sure, i´m not using raid. but i know it supports raid 0,1,5. there is a possibility to replace the dvd with a fourth hdd, but at least for me is one sufficient

don´t know about the chasis changes, there is clevox7200 with a desktop corei7, 2 graphic cards and raid hdds, probably better option for you to buy. there are 2x usb 3.0 in x7200. d900f has 4xusb2.0 but you can add an express card with 2xusb3.0 to d900f.

 

It is a hardware raid in the D900F. You can stripe (Raid 0) all 3 Hard Drives if you wish.

 

I haven't seen this model on kobalt computers or cizmo, is it something new?
Do you know any european resselers that sell this model ?
Is eurocom from europe, or from usa?

My dear god, i thought 130 tdp cpu and 100 tdp gpu was about the max you could squize inside a laptop and still cool it.
Now this with 130 tdp cpu 100 tdp gpu and another 100 tdp gpu.
Guess clevo know their way about cooling.

HDMI in is a good thing to have, you could use the 1080p lcd to hook up a console and for instance play ps3/xbox games.

Don't even want to thing about power consumption of this laptop when it's fully loaded.

 

eurocom is a canadian reseller, they have one office in czech republic called goldmax(but my opinion is that they have bad prices, thatswhy i ordered d900f from cizmo in germany although im from slovakia and yeah today we crushed italy )

x7200 is a model which si being prepared for orders now. there is just a preorder, even here on this forum, search x7200...if u have enough money(because it´s a more expensive than d900f)than wait for x7200.

 

Hello,

X7200 is a new model in which you can have 2 video cards and desktop processor. It is present of the eurocom as preorder, but otherwise I do not is known when it is going to be available. It is possible that D900F will be phased out once the x7200 will come out. So far the x7200 is horrible expensive and maybe a little bigger than the D900f.

 

It's good to know there's a dedicated chip for Raid. I hope they keep it in the x7200 too.

We're talking the buggati veyron of laptops here.
So if eurocom has a one office in czech republic called goldmax, if i order from them, will it count as an european resseler ?

Eurocom is the only one i've seen that offers 24gb ram on their d900f line-up.

The specs of the x7200 are nice, but in my opinion sli 480m will be OVERkill, not only for performance, but for power usage as well.

The thing is, since 5870 is has a TDP of 50W, not counting the memory, i think ATI could make something better to hit the 100W limit.
Maybe another GB of ram, and a bus width of 256bit would push the said chip to 100W TDP and said chip could probably outperform 480m.
The 480m, apart for the extra GB of ram, and better tesseletaion engine, consume way to much power for way to less performance over the 5870.

The bad thing about the x7200 is the fact that it's made to support sli, so if you buy it and fit only one card it's like it's not complete.

However, there are issues , as we all know there are with multi GPU configs.
For instance, World of warcraft doesn't even support multi GPU.

Here's what i said in a previous post.

The thing is, i think current multi GPU solutions are wasteful, even more so for a SLI 480m.
If the scaling were linear and if it would work with every game, power needs be damned. But the present situation is like this:
1) 2x480m sli is extremely expensive, to say the least
2) SLI doesn't work with every game, you need profiles, some games work some don't
3) Power usage is of the roof

AND if you somehow get past the cost of the GPUs and the cost of the electric bill, and past the heat generated, you would at least expected them to work seamesly with every game.

You pay a lot of money, you use lots of power, you get a lot of heat, and it doesn't even work like a single gpu does.

Sure would like to see that lucid logix chip inside a laptop.
Maybe then i would consider geting a multi GPU solution.

It is pointless underline the DIRE need for a switchable graphics solution with such a consuming multi gpu solution.
But i know THERE AINT gonna be any, at least not any time this year.

In my opinion, such wastefull (from the energetic point of view) solution would only be justified if it had a lucid chip(linear scaling), and a way to power them GPUs down when not gaming.

 

Just reminding you similar power configuration for desktop would cost half, though the laptop will consume significantlt lower energy.

P