W860CU HD5870 Overheating Problem

I just got my W860CU from RJTech and the problem of the GPU heatsink not being flushed properly against the GPU core is very evident.

My GPU idles at around 71C and when I use a stress testing software like OCCT it easily goes up to 100+ C in around 5 seconds or so. I did already re-applied TIM using AC MX2 and I'm sure I did it right since I always re-apply thermal paste to all my computer components that needs it.

What do the W860CU users with the same setup do with this issue?

 

If it's not flush then you should RMA. If you don't want to RMA or can't, you can use a thin copper shim to fill in the gap though I'd really recommend sending it back.

 

There are plenty of options if you wish to fix it yourself. They are detailed in the 860/870 threads. People have used shims, found bad thermal pad thicknesses, modified the aluminum can, and even modded the springy mount points to apply more pressure.

 

I had a similar issue which was caused by the sides of the aluminum can that holds the GPU preventing the heatsink from making enough direct contact with the GPU Die. I cut the height of the can down and filed the rest so it no longer gets in the way of the heatsink coming down on it.

Have you used AMD GPU Clock Tool v0.9.26.0 to lower your clock rates when not in gaming?

 

I don't think it's factory defect because many users are experiencing the same. Even before I bought it, I knew this issue coming.

 

1. Did you take off the black sticker?
2. Did the notebook shutdown after stress test?
3. What's your ambient temp, and condition when using? (placed on lap or flat table etc).

I think it is a factory defect, most people i know who got the notebook didn't face this problem.

 

1. Yes I did take off the black sticker.

2. Yes it did shutdown when Im stress tested it.

3. It was on a flat glass table. My ambient temps are pretty high, around 35C but my W860CU with gtx280m topped out at around 90C only. I was expecting the 5870 to be alot cooler.

I asked this question many times before buying the notebook and I thought it's really how it is and you need to mod it yourself.
I

So you think it's a minor issue?

Haven't tried underclocking ye though. I'm planning on doing it at a later time since load temps are more important now for gaming and stress testing.

Sorry for double post.

.

 

Where did you get your notebook from?

I don't think underclocking it is a solution, you are supposed to get a notebook capable of at most 80C under furmark, not something that overheats and needs underclock to run at reasonable temp.

 

Yeah, that is pushing it far. Are you willing to open it up and play around with it? If not, you should RMA. If so, pop it open and replace the paste and make sure the copper plate is flush, as well as that the pads are correctly lined up with the ram.

71*C idle is unacceptable.

 

I think the issue is caused by insufficient contact between the GPU DIE and the heatsink. You can test this theory out by looking at the thermal compound imprint on the other side of the heatsink to see if it is whole or not. Of course, this all depends on your warranty. I did the GPU install myself but in your case, they did it so you could RMA it I guess.

I think closing the gap between the GPU Die and heatsink will solve your temperature problems under load and downclocking will solve the idle temp issue.

After more testing, I discovered that my GPU still does not make sufficient contact so I am looking into possible solutions.

 

How do you personally solve that gap issue?

Well, I've already checked the imprint on both the heatsink and GPU die and the thermal paste is on both surfaces but I'm not sure if the heatsink is flushed tightly to the die. How do you check if there is indeed a gap?

 

Does your thermal imprint look similar to this?

 

Something like that, yes. I'm going to take a picture of it now and post it here for you to see.

 

If the "can" is the issue you can just unscrew the bracket from it.

 

Well, unscrewing the bracket from it would provide no support to the card itself if I understand it correctly. And I think the holes where you screw down the heatsink are in the bracket itself.

Here are the pictures by the way:

GPU heatsink:



GPU die:



CPU heatsink:



CPU die:




I think the Shin Etsu application to the GPU this time is a little off. This paste is very hard to spread since it is thick as hell (unlike AC MX2). I use the dot method with the Shin Etsu but the spread method is more appropriate for exposed dies.

But even then, the imprint of my first re-application of TIM with AC MX2 looks pretty much the same as the one you've posted above. What are you thinking?

Thanks.

 

This is one of the few system that actually use a can. Most just screw right into the system and have the bracket on the card itself. You should be able to do the same.

 

Can someone confirm if removing that can would not do any effect?

 

A shot in the dark here, but that gray tape around the edges may also contribute to your problems...

When installed is the tape ever between the can and the copper plate?

Mine only has the tape at the bottom of the can (near the ram) and it folds ontop of the plate, not between.

 

It is easier to check for proper contact immediately after a fresh application of thermal paste.

 

What do you mean gray tape?

 

In the above picture it appears that the tape (circled in red) is between the can and the copper plate. That area is close to the GPU die and could be holding it up very slightly.

 

I installed the 5870 without the aluminum can so there was nothing getting in the way at all, idle temps without any downclocking were 50-55CC and under load were 85C. This is acceptable but I have gone back to using the GTX 285M and might sell the 5870 some time in the UK cheap. When you are used to idle temps of 40-42C with the GTX 285M and temps under load of 75-78C (heavy gaming) and much quieter fan noise then it just is not worth it.

If you compare the fan noise at 75C and then compare it to 85C+ then you will know exactly what I mean.

By the way, installing the 5870 without the can is very sturdy and you will have no problems at all.

@kevindd992002

You might want to take a look at this but be very careful if you do decide to try something like that. Good luck!

 

Couple questions, forgive me if they are newbish lol. Ok what is this can everyone is talking about, been looking at the pictures provided and I don't have any clue what it might be. Second, I always thought the 5870 ran cooler then the 285M? I don't have my system yet, hopefully by next week. But I'm planning on changing the stock thermal paste to Shin Etsu X-23, so this topic is very interesting.

 

Oh ok. Yeah that gray tape is between the Aluminum can and heatsink. Why does mine haave that in the sides and yours do not?

Can you take a picture of your heatsink showing the location of those gray tapes on yours?

I tried reinstalling also without the copper plate but I noticed that when you screw in the whole GPU with the two "black" screws that hold the whole card to the motherboard, it might produce a little bending to the video card because you are screwing it "more" than before, you are actually screwing it more to get rid of the space that was left by the Aluminum can (between GPU and motherboard screw hole). Would that be fine?

Ah so all in all the 285M is quieter? Damn, I hope you were there when I was asking questions on buying between the 5870 and 285M

 

Don't forget that the GPU's are designed to be installed in both of those ways so they should be fine. I notice no temperature differences with or without the can anyway so I guess to be on the safe side, better to use a modded can. I find that the Nvidia GTX 285M, when installed without the can does not have the minor bending issue that the 5870 has and overall, it fits much better in the GPU slot and on its heatsink. The GTX 285M GPU did not bend at all when I screwed in those two screws.

The GTX 285M is much quieter idle (PowerMizer) and under load during gaming but the reason is simply because it rarely goes beyond 78C compared to my 5870 which always went beyond 85C+ with the much louder fans. Since the GTX 285M idled at 40C, the overall system was much quieter too.

I think all of it is because the GTX 285M's heatsink fits so perfectly with no give, no gaps, it is precise and the GPU DIE seems to be slightly risen from a block it is on.

If you have a 5870 that didn't go beyond 78C during gaming then I would expect similar good results although its GDDR5 RAM is expected to get quite hot. Also without using a manual method, the 5870 will stay at 3D clocks causing more fan noise. Some users may not realise that.

 

They are designed to be installed both ways but why does the 285M sits perfectly (without bending) without the can than the 5870 does? And did you see any improvements in temps when you put the 285M without the aluminum can?

 

The Nvidia card and ATi Card have different can designs. The 285's can seems to sit better.



As circled above, there are only two places with the tape on mine. I don't think the tape is important, it may be there just to provide extra stabalization to the copper plate. It is completely useless if it goes between the can and the plate. Keep in mind that despite how thin the tape is, it makes a difference. Thermal paste is only for filling micro-gaps in the mating surfaces, and the thicker the paste is, the higher it's thermal resistance becomes.

I would not characterize the Nvidia GPU as especially cooler at load, but it's functional power/thermal management gives it quite the advantage over the ati on stock settings without powerplay.

 

Ahh. I thought the 5870 and 285M have the same cans but just different heatsinks.

Where did you buy your W860CU? So you did not have the gray tapes on the left and right side at default or you just removed them? Did you also trim the Aluminum can?

 

I bought from XoticPC, but Sager built it and shipped it straight to me.

I'm pretty sure, since the two cards have different dimensions, that the cans are also different. But, regardless, the can is not the problem as much as the heatsink (which is defintely different) should be slightly less long/wide in order to fit in the can.

I have not modified the can or tape. I did remove the heat sink once to apply new paste. It only came with those two pieces.

 

Ah. What are your idle and load temps?

 

Idle without underclock 50-55*C
Idle at 200/300 43-45*C (Which is why I wrote that guide, because that is just an awesome improvement.)

At serious load I can hit 80, very rarely as high as 85.

I have removed the sticker over the CPU vent, applied IC Diamond 7, and removed the pull stickers from the GPU and CPU's heat pipes.

The can is the rectangular box that the card sits in and that the copper heatsink plate sits over.

I've seen quite a few posts about the 285 running hot (95*C) as well as the MR5780 running cool at load. There are quite a few variables in what you get.

 

Wow that's impressive.

How thich are your thermal pads?

 

They are the standard 2mm. I have already checked the imprints on them to makesure they are making full contact with the various chips.

Also, (use gloves to keep hand oils off of them), but you can gently remove them from the copper plate and then lay the pads over the chips. This way you know they are correctly lined up.

If you pads are 2mm thick and lined up, then they are not the problem. Maybe the maker of the can isn't consistent with its dimensions, as some seem aflicted worse than others.
Either way, you need to lower that copper plate somehow to get your temps down. 71 idle is just scary.

I would reccomend taking the tape off first, then bending the can a bit, and, if nothing else works, removing the can. Or if you don't want to mod it, then you really ought to do a RMA.

 

Ok. Well, RJTech is very hard to convince on this matter unlike XoticPC which are very helpful. Even before buying the W860CU I told them that there is a potential heat problem with the 5870 and they don't listen. They aren't also curtious enough to talk to their customers.

I don't have anything against them because they are a great reseller but I just don't like the way they talk to their customers.

By the way, what is your ambient temp?

 

I haven't seen any posts of anyone with GTX285M running as hot as 95C, I did a google search and a forum search. It would be interesting if anyone can link me to some of those posts.

On my system (I have the new Heatsink for the 5870). Two simple examples both without using the aluminum can, both using MX3 thermal paste with the same application method.

Running GTA IV for a few minutes using my GTX 285M, temperatures reach 75C, running the DMC4 DX10 Demo, temperatures reach a maximum of 73C.

Now running GTA IV for a few minutes with my 5870, temperatures reach 85C, running the DMC4 DX10 Demo, temperatures reach 85C.

Gaming with the GTX285M has minimum fan noise, very quiet but with the 5870, the fan is very loud and blasting away at full power.

I don't understand this since there is no can to get in the way on the 5870 install. I also checked the thermal paste imprint on the 5870 heatsink and it is perfect.

 

I don't think so although it is idle at 39C right now so either that is a coincidence or due to the new Driver I used, or who knows. I don't know why the 285M sits perfectly without the can vs the 5870.

I am going to test the 285M's temps under load to see if there are any improvements too.

 

Ok. Uhm on a side not, where did you get your laptop from? Did you buy it with a CPU?

If so, does your CPU have that orange protective film on it?

 

I purchased my laptop from Kobalt with the 820QM CPU and it didn't have any protective film on it. That sounds like the stuff you have to remove on a new CPU before installing it unless I am mistaken.


Edit: After seeing pictures of this protective film, it is not something you remove from a new CPU, it looks like it is for protection of the circuits from thermal paste that may cause a short circuit if they are electrically conductive and get pushed around the circuit areas.

I am very happy with the CPU temps, I am Testing GTA IV right now to note GPU temps and the CPU is only at 62C.

Edit: I have been playing GTA IV for a few hours doing stuff in game that tends to stress out the CPU / GPU such as gun fights, explosions, lots of police chases, the usual. I find that no matter what I do, I can't get the temp to go beyond 75C so far. I even sat as a passenger in random cars travelling around areas with lots of traffic.

Also Furmark runs on the GTX 285M don't go beyond 85C. Furmark on my 5870 had temps steadily climbing until I stopped the program myself.

 

Honestly, with all this experience you've had with the w860cu;
Am I better off with the 285m? (temperature wise)
Or are there people claiming the other side of the coin (5870 temps > 285m temps)?

The real marginal difference between 5870 and 285m ? (frames per second, performance and temperature wise)

 

Alright then. Did you notice the 5870 to be very "bent" when you screwed it in the moherboard without the aluminum can?

 

No, it was only minor.

 

You think there would be no problems if I do it on mine?

 

I haven't seen anyone with the 5870 who has lower temps than my GTX 285M but some don't have the problems I experienced with the 5870 but then quite a few have had to use shims, exert a lot of pressure on the heatsink when screwing down, mod the can etc etc.

I also find the GTX 285M to perform better in GTA IV than the 5870 with less stutter, most likely due to game being Nvidia Bias. I had to lower settings in that game to get the same performance with the 5870.

If you are not bothered by a louder fan during gaming then the 5870 is ok, I have just become used to a much quieter fan at 75C Vs the louder 85C fan I get with the 5870 during gaming.

I don't think so but if you are not sure, just try it for a short time and note any temp differences because with that method, the heatsink will definitely be sitting flush.

 

Even after all the modding, HD5870 temperatures are still higher than 285m ?

 

In my case yes but some others have had similar temps with the ATI 5870 to my GTX 285M.

 

Kevin, I swear that you must be one if the unluckiest laptop owners ever. In my short time here it feels like I've seen you have every problem under the sun!

 

I guess you're right about that but these are not major problems at all. I'm just very keen on details. Other people won't consider these as problems.

 

Fair enough Well I hope you manage to get it all sorted to your satisfaction

 

Attached FWIW is a temp readout from HWInfo32 for my 5870 after a Furmark and WPrime run, then a return to idle. I've never had a 285, so I have no basis for comparison, but the 5870 has been pretty civilized, all on stock paste on both the GPU and CPU. If those temps make you nervous, a gaming laptop is probably not going to suit.

​

Edit: those idle temps are with clock settings down-clocked (250/300) after testing concluded and return to desktop activity.

 

Did you do some modding in the aluminum can?

But then again your system is a W870CU.