W860CU black plastic disk blocking GPU intake?? - soviet i love you!

Hi all, i was noticing some what i thought was fan noise on my W860CU, i took off the case to make sure there was no lose screws on heatsink/fan or some dust. I noticed a black disc that was completely blocking the intake on the GPU, i've seen these before on my asusg51 (never removed it on the g51) I took off the disk to see if the noise would go away, and it did....and temps seem ok still. Can anyone help me understand if this should be there? I'm guessing its there to help router air flow from some of the small holes in the bottom of the case instead of directly into the fan...the CPU doesnt have any thing blocking its intake.....any ideas guys? Is this normal?

pics below.

 

Take it off and throw it away. That's actually the CPU fan vent, and you should see an immediate reduction in CPU temps after removal. Good catch.

 

Crap, your right it is the CPU side. Theres a small peace of foam around the side of the other fan, should i do something similar on the side i took the plastic off of? It seems to be there to force air in only from the vent and not from the rest of the case....

 

So far as I know, there is no need for any further modification. Just removing the blockage is enough.

 

Is this a normal deal or was this just a mistake from the manu? I've see then before in Asus machines, they must serve some purpose....All of the Asus g50 and 51s have the blockage.

 

Seems like it has to be a mistake, but it sure happens a lot. It has been speculated that it is intended to protect the interior during shipment and final configuration, during which it would be removed at the reseller or dealer level, but then gets overlooked. It seems to get removed where the buyer elects special thermal paste, which requires opening it up. Otherwise, it is a hit or miss proposition. This is all accumulated speculation. I don't think there has ever been any official explanation. Fortunately, it's an easy fix.

 

if you look in pic http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9334/computer3.jpg You can see the foam buffer for the CPU fan, would there be any harm in making one for the GPU so its not sucking in air from other areas in the case or would that be good since the CPU is only bringing in air from outside the case (notpulling in air over memory, HD via vents in front) Thanks for the help, its appreciated. Also in case anyone cares, the irritating sound that launched my investigation is gone, if you own one of these may be worth a look to make sure both intakes are open.

 

old topic, see my avatar

just search for "sticker" and youll see a 1,000,000,000 posts

 

The fact that I removed it, and when I needed to RMA my laptop for GPU replacement, I didn't paste it back, and they didn't paste a new one there, means it's not meant to be there in the first place.

 

This isn't an official line for every Clevo SI - I don't know if some companies take it off when building their laptops - but the panel is supposed to be there. Just to clarify that if it is left on by a SI then it's not a mistake!

 

Neil, what is the purpose of the sticker? It obviously restricts air flow and results in increased CPU temps. What is the offsetting benefit?

Are you saying it should not be removed?

 

The benifit of leaving it there would be that the rest of the components on the motherboard would be cooler because the air would be sucked from other holes. I'd imagine that chokes get pretty hot after a while.

By removing that thing, you might be disrupting the airflow.

 

Do you advise us then to leave the CPU vent blocked or, if not blocked at delivery, to insert some pad or object to cause blockage?

 

It especially makes no sense with the CPUs we are all using. I mean, even with the sticker the temps don't get too high. However, Turbo Boost is dependend on the temperature of the CPU, without the sticker the temperature is 10 - 15°C lower than with the sticker, so we throw away performance if we put that sitcker there, performance we paid for. So there better be a really good reason why the sticker should be put there. I don't think some component will fail because the the air gets sucked in where its supposed to get sucked in, otherwise that would be some pretty big design flaw. Furthermore there is space and even a connector for a third fan, wouldn't that be the better solution if there is some problem with cooling the other components?

 

Good points all.

 

No, I was just trying to offer another point of view.

If it was my notebook, I would take it off.
I had a similar thing with my GT627 and I took it off.

 

I guess another question is, does anyone else have a W860CU with the sticker in place?

 

That was my guess.

 

The things that would possibly benefit from the sticker being left in place are the HDD, RAM, mini-PCI cards, and South Bridge. I have a temp sensor and plan to do some testing with and without the sticker when my 8690 arrives today (!!!).

Worst case, a low profile fan could be placed near the ram with minor modification to the bottom panel. I wonder what programming/temp sensing that third fan connector uses?

 

Yeh, the same was done with my M860TU, and even my Asus G1S.

 

Yup, benefits are already listed - better airflow for other components in the chassis. Also as Daniel Hahn mentioned, taking the sticker off will reduce Prime load temps by approximately 10 degrees so hypothetically putting less of a limit on the CPU performance under heavy load and higher temps.

We have carried out extensive testing on the 860 chassis and actually take the stickers off. We found that the system stability wasn't affected under our testing and especially the 920XM CPU is a little "happier" when running a little cooler.

What I was saying in my previous post is that if a company leaves the vent sticker on then it's not a mistake as they can be left on or off. If your SI leaves the sticker on, then that's how they want to send the system out to you - what I post should not affect your decision, it's just for reference and I am certainally not condoning changing laptops bought elsewhere.

 

double post!

 

Thanks for being forthright.

 

Is this a fact? I thought it was just dependant on the load the program puts on it

If it is true, maybe that can explain why im having long load times on COD4 with my 820QM...maybe its not "turboing" enough?

Ill try and block the sticker on the outside for now and do some testing before i open the lappy back up

 

Using the intel widget, i've noticed a jump of about 100-150 mhz when its using turbo-boost, i really never paid attention to it before, also less noise since the fan tends to not run at max speed all the time.

 

It is a fact. Check out the white papers on the i7. The CPU only overclocks when it is under its TDP, which is 45watts for the 820 and 720, 55watts for the 920, and 35watts for the 620 & i5's.

Straight from Intel:
"Any of the following can set the upper limit of Intel Turbo Boost Technology on a given workload:

Number of active cores
Estimated current consumption
Estimated power consumption
Processor temperature "

Also, Thank you Neil, it is very hard to get a straight answer from some SIs on the this.

 

how about that foam in the GPU vent, is it beneficial to remove it?

 

Maybe punching a few holes into the disk will provide a fair compromise?

 

Oh lord, Clevo pulled an Asus.

 

I doubt it. The foam ensures that outside air is used to cool the GPU instead of potentially warmer air from inside the computer. Keeping the GPU cool is a higher priority than other components as it is most likely to fail from heat.

As for Sager pulling an Asus... Planned obsolescence... Well not really. As discussed earlier, there are pros and cons to either route. I'm benchmarking and stress testing to see what gives the best result for me. I'd be annoyed if I didn't get to tinker a bit.

 

Probably the sticker is meant to be there, because if you pull the black sticker off, the laptop will be too cold to use as a heater during winter, at least you can feel some warmth on the palmrest if you stick the sticker there.

 

Let me know, i have the same cpu and would like to know if it performs better with the sticker left on for some extra temps to turbo on

 

I remember Soviet explaining why it is beneficial also to remove the foam in the GPU vent area. Removing it will increase the efficiency of the GPU fan since it will not only concentrate on sucking air in one direction. I'm not sure of the exact explanation but it has something to do with axial fans.

 

makes sense, would like to hear from soviet or someone else who has removed it.

 

Well, you should remove those "Soviet i love you" phrases if you want him to reply, just a suggestion.

 

Great, I take a nice relaxing vacation from NBR and I find myself on house calls now during my casual skim-throughs of this forum.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/5562938-post7.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/5677159-post1772.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/6047831-post16.html
From post #1156 and onward. http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...official-w860cu-np8690-owners-lounge-116.html

Let me end this thread. The foam ring does affect fan performance. kevindd992002 remembers the lecture I had with him on Steam on the behaviors of fans and thermodynamics. I already explained this before that fans do not draw air completely vertically; air is drawn like water flushing down a kitchen drain or a toilet. CFM is drawn from both the sides and from above. If the fan is contrained to only pulling from above, then efficiency will be lost as that induces turbulence. Turbulence exists in the W860CU's case because the fan is too close to a solid object, the table that the notebook rests upon, and the interference in airflow that is supposed to be drawn from the sides now being forced in through the same entry above. What is the effect of this? The GPU will be warmer with the foam ring on than with it off. Remember that heatpipes lose efficiency at higher temperatures, to removing some of the thermal load by removing the foam ring to have CFM drawn from the inside of the chassis through the intakes over the GPU will take advantage of the surface area on the GPU cold plate. It's a perfect combination of direct convection from the component itself, and from the radiator. This goes back to a similar engineering flaw that I fought against with the Asus G51. Instead of the fan being limited to drawing CFM vertically, it is limited to drawing CFM entirely from the sides as there was no direct intake above the fan. Cooling is all about balance. Sacrificing a bit of static pressure to restore efficiency to the fan is the way to go. What about the the "little parts" on the motherboard like the caps and the cores? Those do not need cooling. On desktops they do, but this isn't the desktop world. Like I've said too many times before, the foam ring and the black EMI sticker are there to further displace the W860CU apart from the W870CU solely for marketing reasons. Clevo knows that the only primary selling points that the W870CU has over the W860CU is the twin HDD bays and a bigger screen. Both notebooks have exceptional cooling that are too close to sell to someone that is looking for cooling. And if you guys think that this is something new, then it's time to wake up. All notebook manufacturers do this. Clevo just made it obvious this time around. My 1201N also has a similar design scheme; a lot of the intakes scattered throughout the bottom of the chassis are also covered with EMI shielding. The first thing I did with that notebook before I even turned it on was rip all of that bullsh*t off, and replace the HDD, install new memory, repaste the CPU and GPU/northbridge, etc; the whole "works" essentially.

I'm going back on vacation. I got finals to study for, a woman to pop the question to, a job to look for, if not continue for masters, noobs to frag, and a 22nd birthday in less than six hours.

 

"Are you going to stop downloading stuff while I'm trying to play Left 4 Dead 2?"

 

Thanks Soviet, Happy bday.

 

Yay for Soviet! Happy Birthday! And good luck with popping whatever question you're going to ask (I'm betting it's BBC2 not L4D2).

 

there ya go OP

 

he always comes through, thats why i titled it so -=]

 

Happy bday Sov Sun!

 

Ah thanks, Soviet. Yeah, I had read your thoughts on it already while waiting on delivery, but I still prefer to test for myself. Ya know, because if you read it on the internet it must be true...

As expected. Taking the EMI cover off produces the best results...

First, with the cover in place: (Room temp was 65*F)
I unscrewed the bottom cover, but left it in place. Then I ran the Intel Burn Test with maximum stess settings, 4 threads, 5 loops. As the test completed I quick hibernated the system, flipped it over, pulled the cover off and checked the ram and wlan card with a temp gun.

The highest temp I could find of the WLAN was 100*F. The highest temp on the ram was 125*F

So, pulled the EMI cover off and repeated the test after the system reached it's usual idle temps. Did the same procedure as above, and my shocking results were: the WLAN got to 116*F and the RAM to 135*F.

So yeah, without a doubt, worth it.

I've also applied some IC Diamond 7, but I'm not sure if that helped because it is good stuff, or if it was just because Sager did such a poor job with their application of the stock materials.

 

Who knows.

 

pwnt.

/10char

 

Does anyone know the acceptable operating temps for the wlan card and memory? 135 and 116 seem reasonable still. To me, the 10° drop in cpu temp reported by others is more than worth it as I'd rather replace memory or a wlan card in the long run instead of my cpu.

 

Those temps are perfectly fine, as long as they are in degrees F. As an example memory chips can operate up 95 degrees C. Most semiconductors can easily operate as high as 85 degrees C. So no worries on those temps.

 

135F = 57C. So you don't have to do the math.